Fucking make holy water non-alcoholic

[Bombadil]

>Get accused of being a Cultist get tased and cuff
>Get tons of holy water chugged down my throat
>Can't walk at all for 10 fucking minutes because i run in circles

If i wasn't a cultist before if a cultist found me in that state I would be easy to take out when you can barely fight back

[Wyzack]

This pls

[Cheridan]

That's the whole point of making it alcoholic in the first place though, to make a huge inconvenience for people so Sec doesn't just make everyone drink the kool-aid as soon as someone looks at them funny.

[paprika]

Alcohol is a lot stronger than it used to be though Cheridan, but why would anyone expect you to know how balance changes trickle down huh?

[Saegrimr]

That's the whole point of making it alcoholic in the first place though, to make a huge inconvenience for people so Sec doesn't just make everyone drink the kool-aid as soon as someone looks at them funny.

Why the fuck would sec care about anybody else being inconvenienced?

[MMMiracles]

Yeah I don't exactly remember the last time security didn't just tase and drag people to the brig for force-drinking and sitting there in a cell until the conversion time was up. Even worse when they just force you to chug a shit-ton of it and now you're left shit-faced for the next 10-15 minutes after they throw you out of the brig.

[DrPillzRedux]

Chaplains will force you to drink it and if you run to avoid that annoying shit GUYS HE'S CULT, which leads to either being beaten to death or cuffed and forced to drink a gallon, making you useless for the rest of the round.

Or

Sec will wordlessly stun you, drag you inside and force you to drink 10 gallons of it and make you useless forever.

It's dumb.

[Steelpoint]

I made this suggestion a while ago after I kept noticing how moronic it was seeing half the station drunk from holy water and me getting bitched at for making them drunk despite me having no choice due to the deconversion hoops you have to jump through.

Everyone supports this idea, but you need to convince someone to code the solution

[Bombadil]

That's the whole point of making it alcoholic in the first place though, to make a huge inconvenience for people so Sec doesn't just make everyone drink the kool-aid as soon as someone looks at them funny.

Do you actually think sec cares? I mean fuck they just give the chaplain all access during cult and then he starts tasing you and making you drink the kool aid. It only inconveniences people who aren't sec and cultists. Sec doesn't give a fuck they WILL make you drink the kool aid and leave you to run around in circles without implanting you

[onleavedontatme]

Remove cult deconversion again. Infinite antag tests are garbage anyway.

[InsaneHyena]

> Cult deconversion removed
> Cult conversion removed too for balance
> Revert to newcult
> Nobody's complaning about holy water anymore

[Bombadil]

Remove cult deconversion again. Infinite antag tests are garbage anyway.

Great idea!

Make it that the chaplain has to bless the mindshield implants and then they deconvert

[Super Aggro Crag]

Drinking holy water should just husk cultists. Either u stay pure or you get purged by the lord.

[onleavedontatme]

New cultist check: The crematorium

It they burned, the Lord willed it, they were a heretic.

[ShadowDimentio]

Antag deconversion should only be in rev. Every other antag spreads so slowly and has immidiate tells for if they're antag if you search them (gang has tools/spraycans, cults have tomes or slabs).

Besides, I usually just say to KOS all antags as soon as you confirm them with a search or whatever.

[Incomptinence]

Conversion modes need deconversion as long as they can rip the implants out of security you filthy tiders.

I couldn't care less about there being tests for these repulsive tumour modes.

Ten people or so out to kill you shouldn't need perfect stealth. We tried it before and no one could deal with it beyond the very first 15 minutes.

[Bombadil]

Thats why i'll hide my tome inside of disposals whenever i leave my area. I just turn off the pump so it wont be dumped

[Bombadil]

Conversion modes need deconversion as long as they can rip the implants out of security you filthy tiders.

I couldn't care less about there being tests for these repulsive tumour modes.

Blood Cult cant rip out implants unless they use surgery.

[Incomptinence]

They will do so. Also as I edited in departments of perfectly concealed killers sucks as seen in convert cult.

[firecage]

Pretty sure the original Bible Bashing deconvertion was removed since it had to few downsides. Sure, it COULD make you very retarded, or it could deconvert you without issue, and even then it was to easily resolveble

This, atleast, has downsides for people who are randomly fed it and who aren't cultists.

[DemonFiren]

Obvious solution is to deconvert and implant Chemistry or Science first and make them mix plenty of antihol.

But that would require forethought.

[InsaneHyena]

Antag deconversion should only be in rev. Every other antag spreads so slowly and has immidiate tells for if they're antag if you search them (gang has tools/spraycans, cults have tomes or slabs).

Antag deconversion should only be in rev.

Every other antag spreads so slowly

[Incomptinence]

Gangs start slow but conversion builds up as they accumulate pens until they fly off the handle. Also conversion on three fronts.

Cults aren't even cool down limited like gangs starting up and while it may be slow originally due to man power to bring them to the antag making stationary whatever flavour they use eventually but it goes nuts. Also they always have constructs.

In basically all cases of anything more complex than rev the slow start is more of a grace period for the station to actually be a station instead of an instant arena. By no means does this slow start result in a tiny amount of total adherents, 3 member runt gangs aside.

Sure they start slowly but they all snowball fucking hard. Not that I wouldn't love to slaughter your grey to the core and probably useless ass instead of make you a little tipsy. However without at bare minimum some sort of identifying test having to slaughter everyone unimplanted on the station will not go down well with people who can't stand virtual drunkenness.

[Lumbermancer]

How about making Chaplain more important, more than a holy water factory? Make the Chaplain be able to "activate" the holy water in the inebriated patient using the holy book ("the power of carpsie compels you"), shortening the conversion and removing the drunkenness?

Or would that be too OP?

[InsaneHyena]

How about we remove drunkness at all, there is no need for it to exist. It only makes the crew hate the sec and the chaplain.

[Malkevin]

New cultist check: The crematorium

It they burned, the Lord willed it, they were a heretic.

Well thats pretty much how things were before holy water deconvert, but admins at the time looked down on sec performing a door-to-door exterminatus.

[Steelpoint]

Exactly.

Cult deconversion was a feature added, among other reasons, because the go to tactic for Security was to go full Death Squad on the entire station.

If you want to return to that instead of making sec slow down and deconvert people then go ahead.

[DemonFiren]

So long as ordinary crew are free to organise and revolt against both Security and Scientology.

Let Cargonia be a shining beacon once again.

[Lumbermancer]

there is no need for it to exist. It only makes the crew hate the sec and the chaplain.

Isn't this exactly the need? For sec to not be able to mount swift and efficient operation?

[Bombadil]

The main issue is the Drunkenness fucks you over big time. You can't walk in a straight at all for ages. Cultists could easily grab you in that state and sac you

[firecage]

Yes Bombadil. Aka, another huge downside to filling random people with holy water. Also, sec is to blame if they are to incompetent to also implant people they holy watered.

[Gamarr]

It's not that bad, the problem is sec/players not understanding that the holy water amount does not make any difference, to my knowledge, and think that jacking someone up on it will make them somehow deconvert faster when it doesn't. Spread this simple ass knowledge and this might be not an issue so bloody bad.

[lzimann]

Needs 30 units to start deconverting/deconvert people.

[Zilenan91]

Why not just remove cult

[ShadowDimentio]

Not that I wouldn't love to slaughter your grey to the core and probably useless ass instead of make you a little tipsy. However without at bare minimum some sort of identifying test having to slaughter everyone unimplanted on the station will not go down well with people who can't stand virtual drunkenness.

Again: There is an identifying test. Search them. If they have a tome/tool/slab, they get to fellate my long hard egun barrel. If not, you get reluctantly let go unless you were caught beating the shit out of the chaplain/an officer or something.

It encourages people to either go loud and fight sec, or go quiet and stealth it up. Both are interesting in their own ways.

[Zilenan91]

Why not just remove cult

[Incomptinence]

Again: There is an identifying test. Search them. If they have a tome/tool/slab, they get to fellate my long hard egun barrel. If not, you get reluctantly let go unless you were caught beating the shit out of the chaplain/an officer or something.

It encourages people to either go loud and fight sec, or go quiet and stealth it up. Both are interesting in their own ways.

No they can just not give the gear to converts or the converts can hide it. So you end up needing to kill them, no tests no deconversion means no mercy sec might as well raid toxins or the engine and burn it all down.

[onleavedontatme]

>you end up needing to kill them

This is only true in rev in which the round literally won't end unless you do and there is no real antag gear to speak of.

Gang, cult, clockcult all have identifying gear and evacuation is possible.

Lings have no easily searchable gear on them but it's against the rules to execute the entire crew once you hear one report of lings.

[Zilenan91]

Why not just remove cult

[InsaneHyena]

Why don't we remove Zilenan instead

[Zilenan91]

Why not just remove InsaneHyena

[Incomptinence]

>you end up needing to kill them

This is only true in rev in which the round literally won't end unless you do and there is no real antag gear to speak of.

Gang, cult, clockcult all have identifying gear and evacuation is possible.

Lings have no easily searchable gear on them but it's against the rules to execute the entire crew once you hear one report of lings.

You know imprisoning the entire crew is rarely feasible.

Also probably not going to be popular with innocents put into a room with ten antags who can then just vent all over them.

[onleavedontatme]

Imprisoning the whole crew is rarely feasible, but running around tasing+implanting/holy water is the standard meta for conversion modes, because it carries little risk or downside.

[Ezel]

Remove mindshields
Make permabrig into the gass chamber

[Malkevin]

>you end up needing to kill them

This is only true in rev in which the round literally won't end unless you do and there is no real antag gear to speak of.

Gang, cult, clockcult all have identifying gear and evacuation is possible.

Lings have no easily searchable gear on them but it's against the rules to execute the entire crew once you hear one report of lings.

Because ouch I stubbed my toe, call the shuttle, is good game play

[Incomptinence]

Imprisoning the whole crew is rarely feasible, but running around tasing+implanting/holy water is the standard meta for conversion modes, because it carries little risk or downside.

People still seem to die doing that so I suppose there is some risk.

[Steelpoint]

Problem is people digest holy water quickly and the mechanics of holy water are not well explained.

If they start at 30 units exactly but they dip down to 20 or 10 units BEFORE they start the deconversion process then will it continue?

[Atlanta-Ned]

Imprisoning the whole crew is rarely feasible, but running around tasing+implanting/holy water is the standard meta for conversion modes, because it carries little risk or downside.

People still seem to die doing that so I suppose there is some risk.

So? Sec can essentially get away with murder during conversion rounds.



ANYWAY,

Deconversion needs to be difficult enough that it's hard/inconvenient enough to deploy on everyone at once, but easy enough that you can do it in the middle of the brig getting stormed.

Since we've got a religious theme here, lets go all-out and say that our deconversion targets need to partake in communion. I won't bore you with the details, but the chaplain needs to bless a loaf of bread and some water. Feed your target a bit of bread*, give them a sip of water and boom. Regardless of how much bread or water they eat, they deconvert.


* Holy shit tactical baking

[Wyzack]

I would just like to clarify that there is no way holy water being alcoholic started as a balancing feature as i am pretty sure that it was a thing before holy water deconversions existed. It was just another "lel alcoholic priest" joke like the fact that he starts with beer inside his bible

[Malkevin]

I would just like to clarify that there is no way holy water being alcoholic started as a balancing feature as i am pretty sure that it was a thing before holy water deconversions existed. It was just another "lel alcoholic priest" joke like the fact that he starts with beer inside his bible

Partially correct.

Indeed alcoholic holy water was a thing for god knows how long, but I was aware of that when I did the deconvert stuff and left it in as a sort of balance thing*

*Although I'll say I was more interested in getting the basic features in balance at the time, so I'm not exactly overly bothered by the alcohol stuff.