Page 1 of 2
Fucking make holy water non-alcoholic
Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2016 3:07 am
by Bombadil
>Get accused of being a Cultist get tased and cuff
>Get tons of holy water chugged down my throat
>Can't walk at all for 10 fucking minutes because i run in circles
If i wasn't a cultist before if a cultist found me in that state I would be easy to take out when you can barely fight back
Re: Fucking make holy water non-alcoholic
Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2016 3:32 am
by Wyzack
This pls
Re: Fucking make holy water non-alcoholic
Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2016 5:36 am
by Cheridan
That's the whole point of making it alcoholic in the first place though, to make a huge inconvenience for people so Sec doesn't just make everyone drink the kool-aid as soon as someone looks at them funny.
Re: Fucking make holy water non-alcoholic
Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2016 5:39 am
by paprika
Alcohol is a lot stronger than it used to be though Cheridan, but why would anyone expect you to know how balance changes trickle down huh?
Re: Fucking make holy water non-alcoholic
Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2016 5:42 am
by Saegrimr
Cheridan wrote:That's the whole point of making it alcoholic in the first place though, to make a huge inconvenience for people so Sec doesn't just make everyone drink the kool-aid as soon as someone looks at them funny.
Why the fuck would sec care about anybody else being inconvenienced?
Re: Fucking make holy water non-alcoholic
Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2016 5:49 am
by MMMiracles
Yeah I don't exactly remember the last time security didn't just tase and drag people to the brig for force-drinking and sitting there in a cell until the conversion time was up. Even worse when they just force you to chug a shit-ton of it and now you're left shit-faced for the next 10-15 minutes after they throw you out of the brig.
Re: Fucking make holy water non-alcoholic
Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2016 5:52 am
by DrPillzRedux
Chaplains will force you to drink it and if you run to avoid that annoying shit GUYS HE'S CULT, which leads to either being beaten to death or cuffed and forced to drink a gallon, making you useless for the rest of the round.
Or
Sec will wordlessly stun you, drag you inside and force you to drink 10 gallons of it and make you useless forever.
It's dumb.
Re: Fucking make holy water non-alcoholic
Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2016 4:29 pm
by Steelpoint
I made this suggestion a while ago after I kept noticing how moronic it was seeing half the station drunk from holy water and me getting bitched at for making them drunk despite me having no choice due to the deconversion hoops you have to jump through.
Everyone supports this idea, but you need to convince someone to code the solution
Re: Fucking make holy water non-alcoholic
Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2016 9:41 pm
by Bombadil
Cheridan wrote:That's the whole point of making it alcoholic in the first place though, to make a huge inconvenience for people so Sec doesn't just make everyone drink the kool-aid as soon as someone looks at them funny.
Do you actually think sec cares? I mean fuck they just give the chaplain all access during cult and then he starts tasing you and making you drink the kool aid. It only inconveniences people who aren't sec and cultists. Sec doesn't give a fuck they WILL make you drink the kool aid and leave you to run around in circles without implanting you
Re: Fucking make holy water non-alcoholic
Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2016 10:03 pm
by onleavedontatme
Remove cult deconversion again. Infinite antag tests are garbage anyway.
Re: Fucking make holy water non-alcoholic
Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2016 10:08 pm
by InsaneHyena
> Cult deconversion removed
> Cult conversion removed too for balance
> Revert to newcult
> Nobody's complaning about holy water anymore
Re: Fucking make holy water non-alcoholic
Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 1:16 am
by Bombadil
Kor wrote:Remove cult deconversion again. Infinite antag tests are garbage anyway.
Great idea!
Make it that the chaplain has to bless the mindshield implants and then they deconvert
Re: Fucking make holy water non-alcoholic
Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 1:17 am
by Super Aggro Crag
Drinking holy water should just husk cultists. Either u stay pure or you get purged by the lord.
Re: Fucking make holy water non-alcoholic
Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 1:23 am
by onleavedontatme
New cultist check: The crematorium
It they burned, the Lord willed it, they were a heretic.
Re: Fucking make holy water non-alcoholic
Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 1:37 am
by ShadowDimentio
Antag deconversion should only be in rev. Every other antag spreads so slowly and has immidiate tells for if they're antag if you search them (gang has tools/spraycans, cults have tomes or slabs).
Besides, I usually just say to KOS all antags as soon as you confirm them with a search or whatever.
Re: Fucking make holy water non-alcoholic
Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 2:35 am
by Incomptinence
Conversion modes need deconversion as long as they can rip the implants out of security you filthy tiders.
I couldn't care less about there being tests for these repulsive tumour modes.
Ten people or so out to kill you shouldn't need perfect stealth. We tried it before and no one could deal with it beyond the very first 15 minutes.
Re: Fucking make holy water non-alcoholic
Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 2:35 am
by Bombadil
Thats why i'll hide my tome inside of disposals whenever i leave my area. I just turn off the pump so it wont be dumped
Re: Fucking make holy water non-alcoholic
Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 2:36 am
by Bombadil
Incomptinence wrote:Conversion modes need deconversion as long as they can rip the implants out of security you filthy tiders.
I couldn't care less about there being tests for these repulsive tumour modes.
Blood Cult cant rip out implants unless they use surgery.
Re: Fucking make holy water non-alcoholic
Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 2:41 am
by Incomptinence
They will do so. Also as I edited in departments of perfectly concealed killers sucks as seen in convert cult.
Re: Fucking make holy water non-alcoholic
Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 6:52 am
by firecage
Pretty sure the original Bible Bashing deconvertion was removed since it had to few downsides. Sure, it COULD make you very retarded, or it could deconvert you without issue, and even then it was to easily resolveble
This, atleast, has downsides for people who are randomly fed it and who aren't cultists.
Re: Fucking make holy water non-alcoholic
Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 6:59 am
by DemonFiren
Obvious solution is to deconvert and implant Chemistry or Science first and make them mix plenty of antihol.
But that would require forethought.
Re: Fucking make holy water non-alcoholic
Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 9:03 am
by InsaneHyena
ShadowDimentio wrote:Antag deconversion should only be in rev. Every other antag spreads so slowly and has immidiate tells for if they're antag if you search them (gang has tools/spraycans, cults have tomes or slabs).
Antag deconversion should only be in rev.
Every other antag spreads so slowly
Re: Fucking make holy water non-alcoholic
Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 11:06 am
by Incomptinence
Gangs start slow but conversion builds up as they accumulate pens until they fly off the handle. Also conversion on three fronts.
Cults aren't even cool down limited like gangs starting up and while it may be slow originally due to man power to bring them to the antag making stationary whatever flavour they use eventually but it goes nuts. Also they always have constructs.
In basically all cases of anything more complex than rev the slow start is more of a grace period for the station to actually be a station instead of an instant arena. By no means does this slow start result in a tiny amount of total adherents, 3 member runt gangs aside.
Sure they start slowly but they all snowball fucking hard. Not that I wouldn't love to slaughter your grey to the core and probably useless ass instead of make you a little tipsy. However without at bare minimum some sort of identifying test having to slaughter everyone unimplanted on the station will not go down well with people who can't stand virtual drunkenness.
Re: Fucking make holy water non-alcoholic
Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 11:33 am
by Lumbermancer
How about making Chaplain more important, more than a holy water factory? Make the Chaplain be able to "activate" the holy water in the inebriated patient using the holy book ("the power of carpsie compels you"), shortening the conversion and removing the drunkenness?
Or would that be too OP?
Re: Fucking make holy water non-alcoholic
Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 11:38 am
by InsaneHyena
How about we remove drunkness at all, there is no need for it to exist. It only makes the crew hate the sec and the chaplain.
Re: Fucking make holy water non-alcoholic
Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 12:40 pm
by Malkevin
Kor wrote:New cultist check: The crematorium
It they burned, the Lord willed it, they were a heretic.
Well thats pretty much how things were before holy water deconvert, but admins at the time looked down on sec performing a door-to-door exterminatus.
Re: Fucking make holy water non-alcoholic
Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 12:46 pm
by Steelpoint
Exactly.
Cult deconversion was a feature added, among other reasons, because the go to tactic for Security was to go full Death Squad on the entire station.
If you want to return to that instead of making sec slow down and deconvert people then go ahead.
Re: Fucking make holy water non-alcoholic
Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 2:47 pm
by DemonFiren
So long as ordinary crew are free to organise and revolt against both Security and Scientology.
Let Cargonia be a shining beacon once again.
Re: Fucking make holy water non-alcoholic
Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 3:39 pm
by Lumbermancer
InsaneHyena wrote:there is no need for it to exist. It only makes the crew hate the sec and the chaplain.
Isn't this exactly the need? For sec to not be able to mount swift and efficient operation?
Re: Fucking make holy water non-alcoholic
Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 4:15 pm
by Bombadil
The main issue is the Drunkenness fucks you over big time. You can't walk in a straight at all for ages. Cultists could easily grab you in that state and sac you
Re: Fucking make holy water non-alcoholic
Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 4:45 pm
by firecage
Yes Bombadil. Aka, another huge downside to filling random people with holy water. Also, sec is to blame if they are to incompetent to also implant people they holy watered.
Re: Fucking make holy water non-alcoholic
Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 7:57 pm
by Gamarr
It's not that bad, the problem is sec/players not understanding that the holy water amount does not make any difference, to my knowledge, and think that jacking someone up on it will make them somehow deconvert faster when it doesn't. Spread this simple ass knowledge and this might be not an issue so bloody bad.
Re: Fucking make holy water non-alcoholic
Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 8:33 pm
by lzimann
Needs 30 units to start deconverting/deconvert people.
Re: Fucking make holy water non-alcoholic
Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 9:17 pm
by Zilenan91
Why not just remove cult
Re: Fucking make holy water non-alcoholic
Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 9:23 pm
by ShadowDimentio
Incomptinence wrote:Not that I wouldn't love to slaughter your grey to the core and probably useless ass instead of make you a little tipsy. However without at bare minimum some sort of identifying test having to slaughter everyone unimplanted on the station will not go down well with people who can't stand virtual drunkenness.
Again: There is an identifying test. Search them. If they have a tome/tool/slab, they get to fellate my long hard egun barrel. If not, you get reluctantly let go unless you were caught beating the shit out of the chaplain/an officer or something.
It encourages people to either go loud and fight sec, or go quiet and stealth it up. Both are interesting in their own ways.
Re: Fucking make holy water non-alcoholic
Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 9:39 pm
by Zilenan91
Zilenan91 wrote:Why not just remove cult
Re: Fucking make holy water non-alcoholic
Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 9:49 pm
by Incomptinence
ShadowDimentio wrote:
Again: There is an identifying test. Search them. If they have a tome/tool/slab, they get to fellate my long hard egun barrel. If not, you get reluctantly let go unless you were caught beating the shit out of the chaplain/an officer or something.
It encourages people to either go loud and fight sec, or go quiet and stealth it up. Both are interesting in their own ways.
No they can just not give the gear to converts or the converts can hide it. So you end up needing to kill them, no tests no deconversion means no mercy sec might as well raid toxins or the engine and burn it all down.
Re: Fucking make holy water non-alcoholic
Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 9:56 pm
by onleavedontatme
>you end up needing to kill them
This is only true in rev in which the round literally won't end unless you do and there is no real antag gear to speak of.
Gang, cult, clockcult all have identifying gear and evacuation is possible.
Lings have no easily searchable gear on them but it's against the rules to execute the entire crew once you hear one report of lings.
Re: Fucking make holy water non-alcoholic
Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 10:17 pm
by Zilenan91
Zilenan91 wrote:Zilenan91 wrote:Why not just remove cult
Re: Fucking make holy water non-alcoholic
Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 10:30 pm
by InsaneHyena
Why don't we remove Zilenan instead
Re: Fucking make holy water non-alcoholic
Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 10:34 pm
by Zilenan91
Zilenan91 wrote:Zilenan91 wrote:Zilenan91 wrote:Why not just remove InsaneHyena
Re: Fucking make holy water non-alcoholic
Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 1:58 am
by Incomptinence
Kor wrote:>you end up needing to kill them
This is only true in rev in which the round literally won't end unless you do and there is no real antag gear to speak of.
Gang, cult, clockcult all have identifying gear and evacuation is possible.
Lings have no easily searchable gear on them but it's against the rules to execute the entire crew once you hear one report of lings.
You know imprisoning the entire crew is rarely feasible.
Also probably not going to be popular with innocents put into a room with ten antags who can then just vent all over them.
Re: Fucking make holy water non-alcoholic
Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 4:57 am
by onleavedontatme
Imprisoning the whole crew is rarely feasible, but running around tasing+implanting/holy water is the standard meta for conversion modes, because it carries little risk or downside.
Re: Fucking make holy water non-alcoholic
Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 6:57 am
by Ezel
Remove mindshields
Make permabrig into the gass chamber
Re: Fucking make holy water non-alcoholic
Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 7:07 am
by Malkevin
Kor wrote:>you end up needing to kill them
This is only true in rev in which the round literally won't end unless you do and there is no real antag gear to speak of.
Gang, cult, clockcult all have identifying gear and evacuation is possible.
Lings have no easily searchable gear on them but it's against the rules to execute the entire crew once you hear one report of lings.
Because ouch I stubbed my toe, call the shuttle, is good game play
Re: Fucking make holy water non-alcoholic
Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 8:33 am
by Incomptinence
Kor wrote:Imprisoning the whole crew is rarely feasible, but running around tasing+implanting/holy water is the standard meta for conversion modes, because it carries little risk or downside.
People still seem to die doing that so I suppose there is some risk.
Re: Fucking make holy water non-alcoholic
Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 2:47 pm
by Steelpoint
Problem is people digest holy water quickly and the mechanics of holy water are not well explained.
If they start at 30 units exactly but they dip down to 20 or 10 units BEFORE they start the deconversion process then will it continue?
Re: Fucking make holy water non-alcoholic
Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 3:03 pm
by Atlanta-Ned
Incomptinence wrote:Kor wrote:Imprisoning the whole crew is rarely feasible, but running around tasing+implanting/holy water is the standard meta for conversion modes, because it carries little risk or downside.
People still seem to die doing that so I suppose there is some risk.
So? Sec can essentially get away with murder during conversion rounds.
ANYWAY,
Deconversion needs to be difficult enough that it's hard/inconvenient enough to deploy on everyone at once, but easy enough that you can do it in the middle of the brig getting stormed.
Since we've got a religious theme here, lets go all-out and say that our deconversion targets need to partake in communion. I won't bore you with the details, but the chaplain needs to bless a loaf of bread and some water. Feed your target a bit of bread*, give them a sip of water and boom. Regardless of how much bread or water they eat, they deconvert.
* Holy shit tactical baking
Re: Fucking make holy water non-alcoholic
Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 5:31 pm
by Wyzack
I would just like to clarify that there is no way holy water being alcoholic started as a balancing feature as i am pretty sure that it was a thing before holy water deconversions existed. It was just another "lel alcoholic priest" joke like the fact that he starts with beer inside his bible
Re: Fucking make holy water non-alcoholic
Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 6:30 pm
by Malkevin
Wyzack wrote:I would just like to clarify that there is no way holy water being alcoholic started as a balancing feature as i am pretty sure that it was a thing before holy water deconversions existed. It was just another "lel alcoholic priest" joke like the fact that he starts with beer inside his bible
Partially correct.
Indeed alcoholic holy water was a thing for god knows how long, but I was aware of that when I did the deconvert stuff and left it in as a sort of balance thing*
*Although I'll say I was more interested in getting the basic features in balance at the time, so I'm not exactly overly bothered by the alcohol stuff.