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Gulag cannot be used by officers anymore.
Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 1:10 am
by Falamazeer
https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/ ... 5f3bb33449
Why kor? I thought you were a fan of the telegulag, Working off sentences and whatnot 'Can't AFK through a gulag sentence' you said.
If you make it so a security officer has to go through the warden, HoS or captain to use the gulag you can bet it's use will be cut down quite a bit, and that's a bit tragic considering how useful it is for being rid of assholes who would rather log off than contribute.
Please reconsider.
Re: Gulag cannot be used by officers anymore.
Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 1:26 am
by TechnoAlchemist
It'd be nice if officers could use the gulag - but not the teleporter function, because often there isn't anyone to process prisoners through gulag.
Re: Gulag cannot be used by officers anymore.
Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 1:29 am
by PKPenguin321
im pretty sure that's how it works already. gulag is usable by any officer, telegulag by warden/HoS
Re: Gulag cannot be used by officers anymore.
Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 1:31 am
by Sidon
It's either this, or limiting the teleporter.
Re: Gulag cannot be used by officers anymore.
Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 2:05 am
by Falamazeer
Why is it somehow better for the much more safe and expedient option to be locked to higher access or otherwise limited numerically.
If you were to be going to the gulag either way, wouldn't you rather skip the booking time?
And by what logic is this, or limiting the teleporter our only options? there's always leaving it as it was, A faster safer fairer alternative to having all your items stripped searched poked through one by one, and then stored in a less secure spot for you to return to them.
I can't see either side of cops or robbers being pleased with this, security loses a great asset unless they risk themselves manually taking people to the gulag like in the bad old days, And the robber side is subjected to additional punishment time of being processed and bored before the sentence even starts.
Re: Gulag cannot be used by officers anymore.
Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 2:36 am
by Sidon
Balance reasons, officer probably won't go to the trouble of gulaging and they'll just give them a normal sentence.
Re: Gulag cannot be used by officers anymore.
Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 3:13 am
by Luke Cox
0/10 literally unplayable
Re: Gulag cannot be used by officers anymore.
Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 3:43 am
by Falamazeer
Sidon wrote:Balance reasons, officer probably won't go to the trouble of gulaging and they'll just give them a normal sentence.
Why is that balance?
Gulag is the middle ground between perma and timers, the reality is as a result of this some will end up in perma instead, and some will get timed cells instead, and only a few will go to the gulag anyways.
How does this affect balance exactly? If it's the death rate in the gulag being too high there's been plenty of suggestions for that already: Separate gulag lavaland from regular spawns, Bring back old asteroid just for the gulag etc etc
If it's the time it takes to gather the points there are solutions to that too; make a max-cap that officers can give as compared to wardens HoS or captain. (500 SO, 750 warden/hos 1000 or banishment cap only.) or go with the old asteroid method and fill it with plasma iron and sand make them all the same point value and people will then KNOW how long it takes for points to be worked off then balance it accordingly like you would for timed sentences.
If too many officers are using the telegulag because it's shiny new and harsh you could always just wait until it isn't the pretty new shiny toy, or start handing out warnings and jobans for being excessive with the telegulag.
Point being, throwing the whole concept behind armory access just limits the potential for a really cool feature, fix it so you're happy with officers using it, don't just throw it behind more access and call it balanced.
Re: Gulag cannot be used by officers anymore.
Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 3:44 am
by onleavedontatme
There needs to be some sort of IC check/hurdle to teleporting people away into lava hell for petty crimes. I'd even seen the detective using the computer.
If they're worth gulagging you can spend the extra two minutes asking an authority figure, and the people in charge of sentencing, to do it for you.
Normal cells still exist.
If you want to do variable gulag sentence caps based on access you're free to try, but making it warden access was changing a single var, not writing new UI.
It's not about "balance" so much as trying to curb people skirting the sentencing guidelines/server rules by using the gulag as pseudo execution (most people will give up and suicide rather than clear out 200 rocks so they can dig up 200 sand tiles to pay for their "five minute" sentence).
Re: Gulag cannot be used by officers anymore.
Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 3:57 am
by Falamazeer
Kor wrote:There needs to be some sort of IC check/hurdle to teleporting people away into lava hell for petty crimes. I'd even seen the detective using the computer.Shiny new toy, yeah it's excessive for petty crimes, but like I said, maybe it shouldn't be lava-hell, there are fixes here
If they're worth gulagging you can spend the extra two minutes asking an authority figure, and the people in charge of sentencing, to do it for you.Yeah that's pretty fair to say, but the reality is that just won't happen all that much, remember how de-clawed sec was when perma/executions became HoS and captain only respectively, right up until it became routine and everything adjusted back to the way they were. Two months from now this access block might do the same, or because it's access only, more likely gulag will just become underutilized.
Normal cells still exist.Big stance to take with the current gulag system but... should they? I mean really, just because it's all we've had doesn't mean we should keep with them, I'm not saying current lavaland is perfect for the clown who slipped the HoS during an important chase, But I can envision a justice system where the tele-gulag could send you to an awesome luxury beach prison, Something like the old asteroid but dreary and slow, or hell itself.
If you want to do variable gulag sentence caps based on access you're free to try, but making it warden access was changing a single var, not writing new UI. INot a coder here, but couldn't it all run off of current access already? Sec access for 500, Armory access for warden/HoS 750, Captains quarters for 1000/banishment, I'ma stare at it until it makes sense or I give up.
It's not about "balance" so much as trying to curb people skirting the sentencing guidelines/server rules by using the gulag as pseudo execution (most people will give up and suicide rather than clear out 200 rocks so they can dig up 200 sand tiles to pay for their "five minute" sentence). I get that, It's just that I loved the gulag when we first got it, then I loved it more when it got streamlined into something useable, and now that streamlining just got a great big speedbump thrown at it. Which is why I'd much rather see it fixed than see that speedbump. there is a better way, and that way won't be found if all the problems stop being problems because people won't use such a problematic system enough for it to matter
Re: Gulag cannot be used by officers anymore.
Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 5:20 am
by oranges
The gulag is literally just the prison station mark 2 and should be removed.
Re: Gulag cannot be used by officers anymore.
Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 5:53 am
by InsaneHyena
Gulag is the ultimate weapon against shitlers, because people enjoy breaking windows and assaulting officers, but for some reason will suicide, if they have to do any actual work before returning to greytiding. Remove brig cells.
Re: Gulag cannot be used by officers anymore.
Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 6:21 am
by Armhulen
It'd be fun if anyone could use the Gulag, considering you have to restrain and lock them in first.
Re: Gulag cannot be used by officers anymore.
Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 7:53 am
by Luke Cox
InsaneHyena wrote:Gulag is the ultimate weapon against shitlers, because people enjoy breaking windows and assaulting officers, but for some reason will suicide, if they have to do any actual work before returning to greytiding. Remove brig cells.
Now this is someone I can get behind.
Re: Gulag cannot be used by officers anymore.
Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 9:24 am
by Not-Dorsidarf
I think regular officers having to use the Gulag normally is good, it's a middle ground. Got a complete shitter smashing your shit? Get the warden/hos to dump him there. Guy spraypainted "PENIS" on your windows? Go to the effort of gulagging him properly you powertrippy bastard
Re: Gulag cannot be used by officers anymore.
Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 2:18 pm
by J_Madison
Every shitter I've caught, they beg for killing, they beg for permabrig.
Gulag is the ultimate punishment to these players that don't contribute. Putting them in a brig cell means they scream shout and flat about until they get their way or get released.
And if they're released, it's easy escalation valids and a right to be an even bigger pain.
Hell getting killed or permabrigging is nothing because a nice loophole in the AI laws, or a metafriend to help you out and you're free.
But gulag?
That's work. You can't just alt tab 5 minutes, boo goo. And you can't ask your buddy to release you that easily, and to top it off; you can't be cloned if you suicide.
Gulag is the ultimate punishment to the worst members of the community. Anything you punish a greytider with is null to them because they can alt tab the sentence duration, or scream shitcurity and have their friends bust them out, or they wait for a free opportunity to break loose. But you mention the gulag and they are in shock at putting effort in to the round.
Re: Gulag cannot be used by officers anymore.
Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 2:36 pm
by TheColdTurtle
Remove eyes and put into perma
Re: Gulag cannot be used by officers anymore.
Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 2:46 pm
by iamgoofball
am I the only one who prefers getting gulag'd over brig cells
Re: Gulag cannot be used by officers anymore.
Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 2:53 pm
by Slignerd
InsaneHyena wrote:Gulag is the ultimate weapon against shitlers, because people enjoy breaking windows and assaulting officers, but for some reason will suicide, if they have to do any actual work before returning to greytiding. Remove brig cells.
^ This.
Officers definitely should be able to use it.
Re: Gulag cannot be used by officers anymore.
Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 3:44 pm
by Cobby
Warden's Brig, Warden's Rules. Speak to the Warden before punishing, you fool.
It's not exactly hard to get your ID to have "heightened access" when wearing the crimson clothes either depending on the HoP.
Re: Gulag cannot be used by officers anymore.
Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 9:33 pm
by Ikarrus
Make it a toggle that Warden+ ranks can change.
Defaults to armory access of course :^)