So, how do you feel about clockcult?

[Xhuis]

Bottom post of the previous page:

Feedback-based PR has been created here. Input appreciated.

[ShadowDimentio]

420 praise it

[Xhuis]

So, turns out that Joan was doing infrastructure improvements to the whole of clockcult at the same time that I was making this. In favor of having more easily modifiable code, I've closed my PR until theirs is in.

[Kel]

I don't have a git account so I hope you don't mind if I post feedback for the update here:
To address the elephant in the room, the reskinned stun paper. Please don't do this. The stun paper (and the shuttle extender) is the only things the bloodcult has as an edge over clock cult in the balance department. Clock cult has FAR stronger bases, has infinitely summonable weapons with no true cost, automatic conversion runes, automatic stun runes, xray vision, all sorts of machines that do crazy shit, the best armor in the game + noslips + combat gloves, and solo conversions, along with a load of other crazy shit.
Having the equivalent of stunpaper on Ratvar makes Ratvar simply objectively better than bloodcult. I'd personally recommend reworking judicial visor to do the following:

The explosion delay is reduced by half or whatever is balanced
The explode effect now marks all non-servants of Ratvar in a 3x3 area
The mark slows and mutes you, and you become glowy in some way (perhaps just a sickly purple color filter or maybe something more significant like a animated sprite attached to you)
Ratvar's purple fireball bullshit can now be used to melee people affected by the mark to stun them for 10 seconds (stunpaper)
Probably shouldn't be able to combo into itself endlessly
Mark should also probably expire in a reasonable amount of time

Effectively still stunpaper but requires alot more effort to make work.

Also: the new sentinel's compromise sounds... too useful? I don't remember the cost of the scripture but I feel like it'll be too low or too high no matter what it is. Maybe make the heal effect get cancelled by taking damage.

[Xhuis]

I don't have a git account so I hope you don't mind if I post feedback for the update here:
To address the elephant in the room, the reskinned stun paper. Please don't do this. The stun paper (and the shuttle extender) is the only things the bloodcult has as an edge over clock cult in the balance department. Clock cult has FAR stronger bases, has infinitely summonable weapons with no true cost, automatic conversion runes, automatic stun runes, xray vision, all sorts of machines that do crazy shit, the best armor in the game + noslips + combat gloves, and solo conversions, along with a load of other crazy shit.
Having the equivalent of stunpaper on Ratvar makes Ratvar simply objectively better than bloodcult. I'd personally recommend reworking judicial visor to do the following:

The explosion delay is reduced by half or whatever is balanced
The explode effect now marks all non-servants of Ratvar in a 3x3 area
The mark slows and mutes you, and you become glowy in some way (perhaps just a sickly purple color filter or maybe something more significant like a animated sprite attached to you)
Ratvar's purple fireball bullshit can now be used to melee people affected by the mark to stun them for 10 seconds (stunpaper)
Probably shouldn't be able to combo into itself endlessly
Mark should also probably expire in a reasonable amount of time

Effectively still stunpaper but requires alot more effort to make work.

Also: the new sentinel's compromise sounds... too useful? I don't remember the cost of the scripture but I feel like it'll be too low or too high no matter what it is. Maybe make the heal effect get cancelled by taking damage.

No worries, feedback is fine here too.

I've been talking with Joan, who's made a tooooooon of changes to clockcult, about a stun/conversion method. We're still brainstorming, though. As for the Sentinel's Boon, I've had a few people actually say it was too weak. I figured that, since it was weaker than what you can already make infinitely on the station, it would be all right.

[CPTANT]

Just had a clockcult round in which the cult had as objective to convert or kill all silicons.

Which is piss easy with how they can convert borgs and just walk into the AI core.....

[kevinz000]

Hard to convert without getting spotted due to the lack of stun/mute tools at T1

[Xhuis]

Guvax recently got a rework here. Invoking it makes your slab visible in your hand and causes it to restrain (only like 5-second breakout) and start converting whoever you attack. Since I don't expect everyone to use GitHub, offer feedback here and I'll relay it to Joan.

Silicons

I don't see a reason to change this. If an obviously-converted borg - they have yellow eyes or have to use a headlamp constantly - is bringing a random schmuck onto the satellite, a competent AI would recognize the threat, either using the mounted flasher to disable the borg, using turrets to disable the cultist, or both, giving them enough time to alert the crew to the threat. The AI can only be converted if the cultist isn't kept stunlocked by an overridden Pingsky or turrets - otherwise, all the borg can do is kill the AI, leaving it available for restoration later on.

[CPTANT]

Guvax recently got a rework here. Invoking it makes your slab visible in your hand and causes it to restrain (only like 5-second breakout) and start converting whoever you attack. Since I don't expect everyone to use GitHub, offer feedback here and I'll relay it to Joan.

Silicons

I don't see a reason to change this. If an obviously-converted borg - they have yellow eyes or have to use a headlamp constantly - is bringing a random schmuck onto the satellite, a competent AI would recognize the threat, either using the mounted flasher to disable the borg, using turrets to disable the cultist, or both, giving them enough time to alert the crew to the threat. The AI can only be converted if the cultist isn't kept stunlocked by an overridden Pingsky or turrets - otherwise, all the borg can do is kill the AI, leaving it available for restoration later on.

You have no idea how borg vs AI works, do you?

[ChangelingRain]

Borg versus AI is "the second the AI is inattentive, the AI's apc is off and it's being converted/killed/whatever"
That's why syndiborgs were bullshit, for one.

[Not-Dorsidarf]

Borg versus non-rogue AI is "Subverted Borg (234) open upload and keep turrets disabled while I upload a suicide law"

[Xhuis]

AI v. borg is a weird territory. I've played probably twenty, thirty rounds as AI and usually the flasher is enough to stop most borgs (hence why I cited it). The REALLY robust ones will camera your core and remotely disable your APC, so there's zero way to counter that. Most silicon warfare is bullshit though.

[BeeSting12]

Why can cult bases be done off z-level? There's no counterplay to this and it's extremely cheesy.

[Xhuis]

Why can cult bases be done off z-level? There's no counterplay to this and it's extremely cheesy.

I actually implemented a blocker for this but people didn't like it.

[CPTANT]

I feel the gamemode highly encourages the cult to go off station, since bases are very visible and raided extremely easy before they are well fortified.

[CPTANT]

Further feedback is that I feel that clockcult has the same problem that narsie cult used to have, that it is way easier to just abduct and convert people than it is to use all the fancy pants unlocked magical stuff.

Also having FOUR ways of converting people feels redundant.

[Reece]

Further feedback is that I feel that clockcult has the same problem that narsie cult used to have, that it is way easier to just abduct and convert people than it is to use all the fancy pants unlocked magical stuff.

Also having FOUR ways of converting people feels redundant.

Plus clockcult conversion just feels like a pain in the ass. You have no way of making people reliably stand still in your first level of magitech. So they can genuinely just resist out and sax away the second you run up with your glowy purple shit and then you get rolled by security. At least nar-si you have an effective and workable tactic to convert, as ratvar you have to act like a greyshit or normal tator and use mundane methods to knock fuckers out then convert them.

The slab having an option to actually stun people without having to pop down an obvious as fuck and stationary rune that only works when you get discovered and will only be used on the first level ensuring that if it does actually stun someone they immediately screech 'cult' and you get rolled.

Oh and base building is just genuinely the worst. There is no place to hide on the station that nosy greyshits and bored security won't meander into.

[letshavecake]

As long as you can get a semi-reliable source of recruits, off station bases are more fun anyway, for both the home and away teams

[D&B]

Converted borgs shouldn't receive the emmaged modules.

You just need one flash and you basically got rid of any and all obstacles for converting the AI and anyone else.

[ChangelingRain]

Converted borgs shouldn't receive the emmaged modules.

You just need one flash and you basically got rid of any and all obstacles for converting the AI and anyone else.

This is todo; I plan to replace the emag modules with a small set of scripture and or a tool for each borg.

[D&B]

Converted borgs shouldn't receive the emmaged modules.

You just need one flash and you basically got rid of any and all obstacles for converting the AI and anyone else.

This is todo; I plan to replace the emag modules with a small set of scripture and or a tool for each borg.

I think they should just keep the normal modules. Their control of the station and doors is more than enough power for just one easy convert.

[Cobby]

Converted borgs shouldn't receive the emmaged modules.

You just need one flash and you basically got rid of any and all obstacles for converting the AI and anyone else.

This is todo; I plan to replace the emag modules with a small set of scripture and or a tool for each borg.

I think they should just keep the normal modules. Their control of the station and doors is more than enough power for just one easy convert.

A slab that at least lets them slowly gather components would be a nice addition though.

[D&B]

Converted borgs shouldn't receive the emmaged modules.

You just need one flash and you basically got rid of any and all obstacles for converting the AI and anyone else.

This is todo; I plan to replace the emag modules with a small set of scripture and or a tool for each borg.

I think they should just keep the normal modules. Their control of the station and doors is more than enough power for just one easy convert.

A slab that at least lets them slowly gather components would be a nice addition though.

That should be left to do to the human cultists tbqh