Could lavaland megafauna not go on the station?

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Re: Could lavaland megafauna not go on the station?

Postby confused rock » Tue Dec 27, 2016 4:08 am #238816

A singularity works too
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Re: Could lavaland megafauna not go on the station?

Postby D&B » Tue Dec 27, 2016 4:09 am #238817

Could singulo not get released?

This isn't even a late round thing. This is about 5-10 minutes in

It's no fun to go "Welp, my antag round was wasted after I did all my setup, I couldn't do anything about it, nor could that double e-sworder against environmental mobs, everyone else is dead too and the admins aren't making the round exciting or even come to a conclusion beyond the 10 minute shuttle call that happened."
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[20:26:02]ADMIN: PM: [censored admin]->[censored]: Welp. It was just a prank bro isn't a very good excuse when it comes to unprovoked nonantag murder, but since this is your first time doing it and you seem to understand the problem instead of a bannu I'm just going to leave you with a warning. Please PLEASE don't do this again in the future, as funny as crackhead broken bottle memes can be. Alrighty? Do you have any input on this?
[20:26:39]ADMIN: PM: [censored]->[censored admin]: Alright, no problem. I have some input. Fuck my boy pussy.
[20:27:06]ADMIN: PM: [censored admin]->[censored]: Okay then. Have fun.
[20:31:29]ADMIN: PM: [censored admin]->[censored]: Excuse me?

J_Madison wrote:that's a stupid fucking stat
you don't play, you've never played
lying little shit with your bullshit stat
fuck you

ColonicAcid wrote:and with enough practise i too could blow my own dick so well that only the gods know how it feels.

PostThis post was deleted by MisterPerson on Tue Dec 27, 2016 10:57 am.
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PostThis post was deleted by MisterPerson on Tue Dec 27, 2016 10:57 am.
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Re: Could lavaland megafauna not go on the station?

Postby Armhulen » Tue Dec 27, 2016 4:58 am #238826

tl;dr there's way easier ways to fuck up the station more and git good et cet pack it up goys
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Re: Could lavaland megafauna not go on the station?

Postby Armhulen » Tue Dec 27, 2016 4:59 am #238828

only kinda related, you are making a lot of balance threads recently, the game got you down?
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PostThis post was deleted by MisterPerson on Tue Dec 27, 2016 11:00 am.
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PostThis post was deleted by oranges on Tue Dec 27, 2016 11:30 pm.
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Re: Could lavaland megafauna not go on the station?

Postby onleavedontatme » Tue Dec 27, 2016 6:40 am #238841

I think megafauna shouldn't heal off the mining z level so its feasible to kill them once they get on station again, otherwise they just devour too many dumb assistants.

PostThis post was deleted by oranges on Tue Dec 27, 2016 11:30 pm.
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Re: Could lavaland megafauna not go on the station?

Postby D&B » Tue Dec 27, 2016 7:16 am #238846

Kor wrote:I think megafauna shouldn't heal off the mining z level so its feasible to kill them once they get on station again, otherwise they just devour too many dumb assistants.


Maybe make them more fragile on normal atmosphere?

It would give the crew enough time to get it together and try to kill it before everything goes to shit.
Spoiler:
[20:26:02]ADMIN: PM: [censored admin]->[censored]: Welp. It was just a prank bro isn't a very good excuse when it comes to unprovoked nonantag murder, but since this is your first time doing it and you seem to understand the problem instead of a bannu I'm just going to leave you with a warning. Please PLEASE don't do this again in the future, as funny as crackhead broken bottle memes can be. Alrighty? Do you have any input on this?
[20:26:39]ADMIN: PM: [censored]->[censored admin]: Alright, no problem. I have some input. Fuck my boy pussy.
[20:27:06]ADMIN: PM: [censored admin]->[censored]: Okay then. Have fun.
[20:31:29]ADMIN: PM: [censored admin]->[censored]: Excuse me?

J_Madison wrote:that's a stupid fucking stat
you don't play, you've never played
lying little shit with your bullshit stat
fuck you

ColonicAcid wrote:and with enough practise i too could blow my own dick so well that only the gods know how it feels.

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Re: Could lavaland megafauna not go on the station?

Postby killerx09 » Tue Dec 27, 2016 8:08 am #238850

Fauna gets damage reduction against things below a damage threshhold.

Maybe remove that damage reduction on-station, and blame it on thermal contraction affecting their armor platings?

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Re: Could lavaland megafauna not go on the station?

Postby Whoisthere » Tue Dec 27, 2016 9:13 am #238857

Is megafauna resistant to boolits from sec rifles/buckshots/bombs? I mean buckshot deals 90 damage if all pellets hit, autorifle is 20 rounds x 20 damage, megafauna has 2500 health except for Legion, should be killable even on-station, especially if you remove healing from asstant corpses.
What happens if you bomb megafauna, by the way?

Also,
>megafauna nerfed onstation
>miners now get the hand tele, rig and jetpack roundstart to take megafauna to station space and kill it there with little effort
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Re: Could lavaland megafauna not go on the station?

Postby Incomptinence » Tue Dec 27, 2016 11:25 am #238870

Tell idiot civvies to go hide. They don't listen eh their fault.

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Re: Could lavaland megafauna not go on the station?

Postby firecage » Tue Dec 27, 2016 12:47 pm #238876

>Complains about something which takes actual effort.

>Doesn't think singularity or tesla(which can be released at roundstart), and far more devastating, is any real problem.

Cosmic, I think your complaint is lacking consistency.
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Re: Could lavaland megafauna not go on the station?

Postby Bombadil » Tue Dec 27, 2016 2:42 pm #238890

Getting a megafauna on the station is far more deadly than fighting the damn things.

Also bombs are easier to make and have just as much destructive power
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Re: Could lavaland megafauna not go on the station?

Postby Bombadil » Tue Dec 27, 2016 2:44 pm #238892

Whoisthere wrote:Is megafauna resistant to boolits from sec rifles/buckshots/bombs? I mean buckshot deals 90 damage if all pellets hit, autorifle is 20 rounds x 20 damage, megafauna has 2500 health except for Legion, should be killable even on-station, especially if you remove healing from asstant corpses.
What happens if you bomb megafauna, by the way?

Also,
>megafauna nerfed onstation
>miners now get the hand tele, rig and jetpack roundstart to take megafauna to station space and kill it there with little effort



If a megafauna is in gib range it takes 300-400 damage iirc
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Re: Could lavaland megafauna not go on the station?

Postby Cobby » Tue Dec 27, 2016 4:37 pm #238900

Why are people referencing the singularity and tesla? Singularity doesn't target individuals and shrinks to a single tile after not eating for a while.

Tesla is hardcountered by igloves and a hardsuit, or machines.

How does that compare to megafauna with no counter but to hit it repeatedly? What's worse is that it will permanently remove corpses [which heal the thing], something even the tesla doesn't do unless you happen to be on the exact tile as the center ball.

With that said, what about longer rounds everyone touts? How does adding more ways to ruin the round beyond repair roundstart fix the "problem" of not having long rounds?
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Re: Could lavaland megafauna not go on the station?

Postby onleavedontatme » Tue Dec 27, 2016 6:16 pm #238922

I understand if you don't like megafauna on the station Cobby, but pretending a loose singularity or tesla that heads in any direction but space is somehow not destructive or in any way manageable is absurd.

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Re: Could lavaland megafauna not go on the station?

Postby Cobby » Tue Dec 27, 2016 6:40 pm #238928

Kor wrote:I understand if you don't like megafauna on the station Cobby, but pretending a loose singularity or tesla that heads in any direction but space is somehow not destructive or in any way manageable is absurd.


I almost forgot about the tesla exploding to cause gibbing.

All true, which is why I don't like any of them tbh. Just not sure what the fix is [if they need a fix to begin with] without people screeching "H U G B O X".
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Re: Could lavaland megafauna not go on the station?

Postby XDTM » Tue Dec 27, 2016 7:40 pm #238955

Lavaland bosses are specifically balanced for being in lavaland, and have 50% burn resistance to discourage miners shooting them from offscreen with lasers. While this is balanced in lavaland, it all goes to shit on station where the one weapon that is designed to beat them deals almost no damage. The only weapons that work are autorifles and lethal shotguns, and even then the megafauna will usually breach a major part of the station and gib a lot of crewmembers before it dies, if it even does. Bombing it causes even more destruction for little reward and the singulo literally ignores them.

Given this, i'd go with D&B's suggestion and make megafauna lose their resistances and a lot of health if they warp off lavaland. They'll still cause a lot of damage but they could be beaten by robust enough players in less than 30 minutes, also giving them the loot. Which means that luring bosses on station could have a downside, much like if you double esword people you can get it stolen and used against you.
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Re: Could lavaland megafauna not go on the station?

Postby D&B » Tue Dec 27, 2016 7:42 pm #238956

Should probably nerf the drops too if they're killed on station so people don't abuse it.

I just know someone will go through the length and trouble of making an arena in station that can either work perfectly and thus the whole point of megafauna is ruined, or fails and the station is doomed.
Spoiler:
[20:26:02]ADMIN: PM: [censored admin]->[censored]: Welp. It was just a prank bro isn't a very good excuse when it comes to unprovoked nonantag murder, but since this is your first time doing it and you seem to understand the problem instead of a bannu I'm just going to leave you with a warning. Please PLEASE don't do this again in the future, as funny as crackhead broken bottle memes can be. Alrighty? Do you have any input on this?
[20:26:39]ADMIN: PM: [censored]->[censored admin]: Alright, no problem. I have some input. Fuck my boy pussy.
[20:27:06]ADMIN: PM: [censored admin]->[censored]: Okay then. Have fun.
[20:31:29]ADMIN: PM: [censored admin]->[censored]: Excuse me?

J_Madison wrote:that's a stupid fucking stat
you don't play, you've never played
lying little shit with your bullshit stat
fuck you

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Re: Could lavaland megafauna not go on the station?

Postby onleavedontatme » Tue Dec 27, 2016 8:19 pm #238959

XDTM wrote:Lavaland bosses are specifically balanced for being in lavaland, and have 50% burn resistance to discourage miners shooting them from offscreen with lasers. While this is balanced in lavaland, it all goes to shit on station where the one weapon that is designed to beat them deals almost no damage. The only weapons that work are autorifles and lethal shotguns, and even then the megafauna will usually breach a major part of the station and gib a lot of crewmembers before it dies, if it even does. Bombing it causes even more destruction for little reward and the singulo literally ignores them.

Given this, i'd go with D&B's suggestion and make megafauna lose their resistances and a lot of health if they warp off lavaland. They'll still cause a lot of damage but they could be beaten by robust enough players in less than 30 minutes, also giving them the loot. Which means that luring bosses on station could have a downside, much like if you double esword people you can get it stolen and used against you.


Only the dragon actually has any burn resist (because, you know, it breathes fire).

We could also make megafauna not eat corpses period on station. Drakes used to be vaguely manageable when they left bodies behind and didn't heal.

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Re: Could lavaland megafauna not go on the station?

Postby Thundercoot » Tue Dec 27, 2016 9:28 pm #238971

Looking at the code, all megafauna inherit the same damage resistance.
From megafauna.dm:
/mob/living/simple_animal/hostile/megafauna
...
damage_coeff = list(BRUTE = 1, BURN = 0.5, TOX = 1, CLONE = 1, STAMINA = 0, OXY = 1)

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Re: Could lavaland megafauna not go on the station?

Postby Incomptinence » Tue Dec 27, 2016 9:29 pm #238972

Kor people should just be told to hide from the giant monster instead of hitting it with fire extinguishers.

Thematic immersion damage resists should go though.

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Re: Could lavaland megafauna not go on the station?

Postby onleavedontatme » Tue Dec 27, 2016 9:38 pm #238976

Yeah but they'll hit them anyway, so we may as well make that feasible. The best counter to a monster getting on station is for everyone to just fuck off and stop going in the same room as it until a borg can lure it into space (which is what I did the last two times I saw one on station, with bubblegum and a drake), but people are naturally going to want to go die gloriously instead and pull aggro from you.

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Re: Could lavaland megafauna not go on the station?

Postby DemonFiren » Tue Dec 27, 2016 9:53 pm #238979

Do my eyes deceive me or do I see self-removing valids here?
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Re: Could lavaland megafauna not go on the station?

Postby firecage » Tue Dec 27, 2016 11:18 pm #239007

Okay, ignore my previous post.
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Re: Could lavaland megafauna not go on the station?

Postby Bombadil » Wed Dec 28, 2016 12:22 am #239032

Does everyone fucking forget that the Kinetic Accelerator pressure mod exists?


You can attach a range and damage mod and still do really fucking well with it. My common KA kit is 2 damage one range. So really it would only add like... 4 extra hits needed?

Edit: I forgot you can no longer print KA's for some fucking reason. Why can't we print normal KAs? Oh wait the pressure mod
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Re: Could lavaland megafauna not go on the station?

Postby oranges » Wed Dec 28, 2016 2:04 am #239056

The impact is on people who aren't prepped to fight a megafauna unlike a miner, along with station damage which is hard to repair.

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Re: Could lavaland megafauna not go on the station?

Postby Whoisthere » Wed Dec 28, 2016 8:22 am #239085

So apparently this is a non-issue because mining mobs are easily disposed of by a borg luring them to space, the station damage is less than that of a released singulo or tesla which happens way more often, and people who are killed in the process mostly deserve it anyway?
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Re: Could lavaland megafauna not go on the station?

Postby Incomptinence » Wed Dec 28, 2016 11:31 am #239103

You can run away and hide once you hear about it. Unlike the singularity these critters don't plow through tens of walls with no provocation. If you aren't fucking idiots it's about as dangerous as a plasma fire aka go in maint and live.

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Re: Could lavaland megafauna not go on the station?

Postby Bombadil » Wed Dec 28, 2016 3:02 pm #239122

Bubblegum will plow through walls... although he might just teleport through the blood coated station instead
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Re: Could lavaland megafauna not go on the station?

Postby D&B » Wed Dec 28, 2016 4:24 pm #239133

Megafauna doesn't magically appear in the middle of the station and treating this as if inherently rushed the middle of the station is dumb.

The only reason megafauna often gets as far as it does is because dumbshits will try to lure it further inside. Many times I have seen megafauna successfully quarantined in cargo with all access to it cut off so no one could aggro them.
Spoiler:
[20:26:02]ADMIN: PM: [censored admin]->[censored]: Welp. It was just a prank bro isn't a very good excuse when it comes to unprovoked nonantag murder, but since this is your first time doing it and you seem to understand the problem instead of a bannu I'm just going to leave you with a warning. Please PLEASE don't do this again in the future, as funny as crackhead broken bottle memes can be. Alrighty? Do you have any input on this?
[20:26:39]ADMIN: PM: [censored]->[censored admin]: Alright, no problem. I have some input. Fuck my boy pussy.
[20:27:06]ADMIN: PM: [censored admin]->[censored]: Okay then. Have fun.
[20:31:29]ADMIN: PM: [censored admin]->[censored]: Excuse me?

J_Madison wrote:that's a stupid fucking stat
you don't play, you've never played
lying little shit with your bullshit stat
fuck you

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Re: Could lavaland megafauna not go on the station?

Postby Bombadil » Wed Dec 28, 2016 4:35 pm #239136

D&B wrote:Megafauna doesn't magically appear in the middle of the station and treating this as if inherently rushed the middle of the station is dumb.

The only reason megafauna often gets as far as it does is because dumbshits will try to lure it further inside. Many times I have seen megafauna successfully quarantined in cargo with all access to it cut off so no one could aggro them.



Most of the time i port them in they end up in a secure location i have to break into to lure them out or in space
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Re: Could lavaland megafauna not go on the station?

Postby XDTM » Wed Dec 28, 2016 5:19 pm #239141

Bombadil wrote:Does everyone fucking forget that the Kinetic Accelerator pressure mod exists?


You can attach a range and damage mod and still do really fucking well with it. My common KA kit is 2 damage one range. So really it would only add like... 4 extra hits needed?


The ones that should be bringing the ores for the mods are either A: the traitors who lured the megafauna in the first place or B: dead due to A stabbing them in the back with 40 damage KAs.
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Re: Could lavaland megafauna not go on the station?

Postby Bombadil » Wed Dec 28, 2016 8:11 pm #239202

XDTM wrote:
Bombadil wrote:Does everyone fucking forget that the Kinetic Accelerator pressure mod exists?


You can attach a range and damage mod and still do really fucking well with it. My common KA kit is 2 damage one range. So really it would only add like... 4 extra hits needed?


The ones that should be bringing the ores for the mods are either A: the traitors who lured the megafauna in the first place or B: dead due to A stabbing them in the back with 40 damage KAs.


I dont kill other miners until i get my upgrades... then i use dual plasma cutters to cut off their legs
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Re: Could lavaland megafauna not go on the station?

Postby kevinz000 » Fri Dec 30, 2016 2:03 am #239519


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Re: Could lavaland megafauna not go on the station?

Postby D&B » Fri Dec 30, 2016 4:06 am #239537

I ded pls nerfe: The pull request.

Seriously, megafauna is piss easy to contain in station if security/heads do a proper job of redirecting people or the AI locks it down before some dipshit aggroes it.

Are we gonna nerf the singulo next because it is piss easy to release round start too? Add timers before powersinks can be bough or a minimal energy level needed before it can be used? Put a time lock on atmos computers?
Spoiler:
[20:26:02]ADMIN: PM: [censored admin]->[censored]: Welp. It was just a prank bro isn't a very good excuse when it comes to unprovoked nonantag murder, but since this is your first time doing it and you seem to understand the problem instead of a bannu I'm just going to leave you with a warning. Please PLEASE don't do this again in the future, as funny as crackhead broken bottle memes can be. Alrighty? Do you have any input on this?
[20:26:39]ADMIN: PM: [censored]->[censored admin]: Alright, no problem. I have some input. Fuck my boy pussy.
[20:27:06]ADMIN: PM: [censored admin]->[censored]: Okay then. Have fun.
[20:31:29]ADMIN: PM: [censored admin]->[censored]: Excuse me?

J_Madison wrote:that's a stupid fucking stat
you don't play, you've never played
lying little shit with your bullshit stat
fuck you

ColonicAcid wrote:and with enough practise i too could blow my own dick so well that only the gods know how it feels.

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Re: Could lavaland megafauna not go on the station?

Postby XDTM » Fri Dec 30, 2016 10:25 am #239599

Yes to all of those please
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Re: Could lavaland megafauna not go on the station?

Postby Incomptinence » Fri Dec 30, 2016 11:32 am #239604

Remove resistance to lasers, there security can just laser it down and miners have a reason to want conventional weaponry no one will give them because valids are more important win win.

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Re: Could lavaland megafauna not go on the station?

Postby XDTM » Fri Dec 30, 2016 1:43 pm #239613

Megafauna has 2500 health, lasers do 20 burn damage and have 10 shots, which means you have to get 13 full charges worth of shots, implying you hit all of them, WITHOUT the burn resistance. I don't think megafauna needs it tbh.
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Re: Could lavaland megafauna not go on the station?

Postby Bombadil » Fri Dec 30, 2016 2:41 pm #239617

So just drop the laser resistance to like 25% when on the station that means lasers do 15 burn and you still have shoguns and other shit
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Re: Could lavaland megafauna not go on the station?

Postby onleavedontatme » Fri Dec 30, 2016 3:21 pm #239621

My answer is that asteroid should come back. People are consitently upset when anything from lavaland (loot/ghost roles/monsters/miners) has an impact on the rest of the station.

And having an entire z level dedicated to things that delete themselves or become weak on station turns lavaland into a quarantined minigame, which would be a silly thing to maintain and a waste. Removal makes the most sense.

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Re: Could lavaland megafauna not go on the station?

Postby Gamarr » Fri Dec 30, 2016 3:53 pm #239625

Generalizations suck; lavaland is great, roles and loot coming back does not bother me. The monsters, megafauna, do, and to a lesser degree normal monsters.
Why? Because lavaland has special damage situations for mining, where the megafauna and monsters that get to the station have an extra layer of protection over their already bloated hp. A goliath is a pest however, where a drake flies through the roof of the station and leaps and bounds across it if there is enough population.

Going through all that effort and then returning asteroid, seriously? Hitting the back button would be one of the worst ways to deal with the situation and I'm not sure why you would even think this. One of the issues is that it is several concepts balled into a single map, where it needs a deeper map/layer to put the worse shit and still isn't around yet.

You Can Not remove lavaland and its ghost roles now, imo, given the populations of bagil for its norm. People like playing the extra stuff, and it has provided ghost recycling for the rounds for months now. Just because there are complainers on the forum doesn't mean they are a majority. We're just the easiest to listen to since it's often where shit is shouted the loudest.

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Re: Could lavaland megafauna not go on the station?

Postby DemonFiren » Fri Dec 30, 2016 4:30 pm #239635

Kor wrote:My answer is that asteroid should come back. People are consitently upset when anything from lavaland (loot/ghost roles/monsters/miners) has an impact on the rest of the station.

And having an entire z level dedicated to things that delete themselves or become weak on station turns lavaland into a quarantined minigame, which would be a silly thing to maintain and a waste. Removal makes the most sense.

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Re: Could lavaland megafauna not go on the station?

Postby Gun Hog » Fri Dec 30, 2016 8:20 pm #239692

Kor wrote:My answer is that asteroid should come back. People are consitently upset when anything from lavaland (loot/ghost roles/monsters/miners) has an impact on the rest of the station.

And having an entire z level dedicated to things that delete themselves or become weak on station turns lavaland into a quarantined minigame, which would be a silly thing to maintain and a waste. Removal makes the most sense.


Do not do this. Lavaland was one of the greatest things to ever happen to mining. The mining job soared in popularity because of this. LAVALAND IS FUN. I enjoy dymanic and destructive content like this. It stops the game getting boring, especially when almost half of the round types are some flavor of Traitor (Traitor, DA, Traitorchan). Lavaland certainly should not be isolated, nor should any of its content.

Be it dragons slaughters, Ash Walker takeovers, or antag miners turning the station INTO Lavaland, they ALL add a wonderful flavor of unpredictability that the station desperately needs. There should always be more to the game than direct human PvP. Chaos and mass destruction resulting in the deaths of several players at once. I do not ever want to see that reduced to the point of irrelevance.

I personally would rather be taken out by something that kills 20 other players, than be silently taken out by one person.

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Re: Could lavaland megafauna not go on the station?

Postby oranges » Sat Dec 31, 2016 3:20 am #239786

Kor wrote:Removal makes the most sense.


Oh Kor

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Re: Could lavaland megafauna not go on the station?

Postby Incomptinence » Sat Dec 31, 2016 4:09 am #239798

kor it's a weak minority calm down

I love seeing monsters eating people it's less tired than engine endings and unlike those and their "answers" it has plausible methods to contain or destroy the threat.

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Re: Could lavaland megafauna not go on the station?

Postby Bombadil » Sat Dec 31, 2016 5:21 am #239807

Incomptinence wrote:kor it's a weak minority calm down

I love seeing monsters eating people it's less tired than engine endings and unlike those and their "answers" it has plausible methods to contain or destroy the threat.

Like ignoring it... or running into space
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