Umbrage: Shadowling Redux (delayed?)

[D&B]

Bottom post of the previous page:

Do you like write all that stuff with a straight face

[ShadowDimentio]

No I'm usually smugly grinning to myself in my darkened room.

[oranges]

[quote="Xhuis"Thank you again to everyone who supported the gamemode. I think I'm going to reflect on things for a while.[/quote]
maybe you should reflet on the fact it would have taken a few minutes to remove the conversion aspect and then your PR probably would have been merged, instead you dug in your heels and went running to MSO instead.

[Xhuis]

Before you read this, take heed: this write-up was written when I was in a state of extreme emotional turmoil. Take all you read with a grain of salt.

Spoiler:

I'd like to make a proper write-up about this in response to the drama that just happened. This will be a long read, so please look through all that I have to say.

Umbrage did not start several months ago. It started almost two years ago, when the pull request to revert shadowlings was merged. I knew that I had made many mistakes with the gamemode, but I still liked it. I liked my concept and wanted to do more with it. But tg was sick of shadowling, so I instead decided to finish a mode that vg never did: clockcult. That is another story but to make it short it was merged and I think it did reasonably well given how shadowling was originally received.

Several months ago I decided that I was going to work on shadowlings again. I put the initial code in place and day by day made a sort of pseudo-shadowling. Conversion would not be their primarily goal but would still hold a key place in the gamemode. After a while, a core idea formed, and I edited this forum thread to a question to the players asking if they would like shadowlings back to a design commentary and update feed about the new version of the gamemode which I called umbrage. I was very excited for it. Other people were excited for it as well. I wanted umbrage to fill the niche that shadowlings did not and worked mindful of how the conversion was received. When inevitably it was complained about, I decided to move it to play a smaller role. At this time, I had not been informed of a "conversion mode ban" that apparently exists so I continued to work on it.

When I made the pull request is when the problems started. KorPhaeron was the main person to dislike the mode and brought up very valid concerns about conversion. I continued to make changes, although maybe not as actively as I would have liked, as I still wanted conversion to be a part of the mode. We had our disagreements and he clearly dislikes me but I soldiered on. I thought enough people liked the mode and wanted it back that it would be okay in his and the other maintainers' eyes if it was merged despite some complaints. And if it was bad oh well. I could always make a change, tweak stuff, or even do a revert if need be.

For the better part of three months now I had been working on umbrage in my spare time. It took up a lot of my schedule and I looked forward to continuing it a good bit. This went on until today when Korphaeron announced that he would be closing the pull request if I did not remove conversion. An argument ensued and I lost my cool and became very passive aggressive, but razharas pointed it out and I retired for a little bit to gather my thoughts. When i came back I talked some more about the issue although I was not going to remove conversion unless I had to. In the end mrstonedone said that I should work on the mode until it got to a testmergeable stage so I decided I would do that.

Then I had to go because my wow guild needed me to raid. When we finished up later I was removed (i'm undergeared so I just tag along for farm nights) and came back to find that my pr was closed. I was upset by this but I figured that I could ask why and talk about what had happened that warranted it being closed. I went in coderbus and asked (yes, angrily) why it was closed and was told dismissively by oranges that because I had not agreed to korphaeron (design lead)s decisions that it had been closed and that I was being a whiny bitch (quote oranges).

After that I left coderbus and deleted the branch, made the above posts and sat down for twenty or so minutes to reflect on things.

I am not attempting to garner sympathy for myself but only to state a fact. I have shed tears over what happened today and I am not ashamed to admit it. As corny as it may sound, I was truly happy about this and I can tell that all but a select few were at least indifferent to it too. This project was a three-month labor of love and to see it so suddenly and dismissively destroyed by a small minority who think that it might cause problems cut very deep. I do not think that it is a wound that will heal for a very long time and, forgive me if this sounds like its too much out of a hollywood movie, but I will never forgive oranges and kor for doing what they did today.

This being said, I would like to save my opinions for last on this matter.

Korphaeron is without a doubt one of the worst maintainers/headmins that I have seen. Many times he has shown me that he does not care about what the players think and holds his own opinion above all others. Because he disagreed with me he used his position as a "design lead" to shoot me down and I hate him for it. Kor has shown disdain to me as long as I can remember and I will never see him in a positive light for a long time after this.

Oranges is what is wrong with tg. It has been a very long time since he has made a project of this scale or even played the game but he continues to do this. he constantly sucks up to the maintainers, being one himself, and freely closes prs and bans people that he does not like or simply because he believes that it is funny. I have no idea how he got to the position he is in but I hope that someone will see what they are doing and remove them from being a maintainer.

Here are my concluding thoughts. I spent a lot of time on this mode because I really liked making it and I wanted to see people like playing it too. I know that there are problems as this is not my first rodeo in gamemodes and I was willing to fix them but I didnt want to forfeit a feature just because one person didnt like it and I hoped that the player vote would override it. It seems however that kor, who is claimed as design lead yet does nothing more than make unfinished projects and close other peoples, did not want it in the game and so he offered me an ultimatum that the host himself rejected, but I was overriden by oranges who called me childish and ignorant despite being the one to close my pull rqeuest with "lol" beforehand. And even today there is no clear evidence of a conversion ban outside of the key circle of maintainers that seem to agree amongst themselves that it exists.

Again. I have wept over this mode because it was a labor of love to me. I know you are probably rolling your eyes but I really wanted this to succeed. I knew there would be problems and I would have fixed them. To everyone who has stuck with me and contributed to the mode, thank you very much. I really appreciate what you did to help. To everyone who believed in me, thank you for thinking that umbrage could be great. To everyone who disliked the mode from the beginning, you are okay too. You have a right to your opinion. To kor and oranges, despite all that I have said about you, I do not hate you as people and I hope that you will consider one day letting me continue work on this project again despite its flaws.

Thank you guys for giving me a chance. I am sorry that I wasnt able to do what I promised in the end and I accept that it is my full responsibility that I have failed you. if you are wondering if I will continue this or not I probably wont. I will not code for a long time I think, or maybe just go back tomorrow. I need a break but I don't know how long I need.

[oranges]

right, it's still everyone elses fault and not your own, the only person standing in the way of the finishing of your mode is you with your refusal to remove the conversion aspect.

You only had to make one change and you still wont' do it. Instead you'll just blame everyone else.

You're invested because it's your code. I review 52+ pr's a month, I don't have time to form an attachement to every single one.

[ShadowDimentio]

You're both wrong. Kor is wrong for having a vendetta against conversion modes, Xhuis my dude you're wrong for refusing to capitulate for Kor's admittedly stupid demand.

[Xhuis]

I know that it was my fault. I said myself that I fully accept that it was my own choice not to agree to the demand and I wanted to have some time to think it over as it had been made apparently clear that I had two days to do it. I was presenting arguments to see if I could sway him in the time that I had and, while I do not hold myself responsible for the instant, premature closing, I do for my own complaints and refusal to comply. I thought that I had had time to debate but it seems that I was wrong.

[oranges]

Closing a pr doesn't mean you can't keep debating it or bring it back later, maybe I was hasty in closing it but from my position it looked like a lot of people just abusing someone with a shitty job to do.

You're the one who seems to think I have brought your entire world to an end with a single action.

All you and Kor have to do is find some quiet time alone in pm's and sort something out, but why would they want to now after all this abuse they got.

[Armhulen]

"48 Hours to remove conversion"

Closed within an hour


ShadowDimentio if he knew oranges would kill his project in an hour he wouldn't have considered otherwise

[oranges]

Yeah because we all know I'm apparently the last word on everything, it's not like I have been overruled before because I have a shadow hand controlling everyone else that prevents anyone from telling me what to do.

[Xhuis]

Every time a maintainer has closed one of my pull requests it has never been opened again. It is usually a death sentence for the pr and I know that unless you actively take steps to reopen it that this will be the same. Knowing how people feel about it among the higherups has killed my motivation at any rate, and I would rather let the mode die with what was there as good then finish it as a bad gamemode.

[Armhulen]

Man this shit sucks, at least let the poor man have a testmerge with or without it. Xhuis is right in that this killed his PR. Nobody is going to reopen it so Xhuis can do what the design lead asks and you know it

[oranges]

if he removed conversion I'd reopen it immediately assuming that was the primary reason kor was planning to close it.

[Xhuis]

Thank you for the sympathy but the gamemode is not in a state where it can be testmerged. There is not even a win condition implemented yet. As I said I do not want to continue on it but it might change later in the weekend. I will keep the code on my local branch in case I decide to continue.

[Armhulen]

Please continue working on it. I'm a huge fan of what you made, the Being was fun reading the document every other day for new changes, Shadowling was extremely fun to play and Revenant is my second favorite sideantag.

You can still make Umbrage good, without conversion. Even though you never announced it, Listening bug is extremely cool.

[Haevacht]

[quote=Xhuis]I know you are probably rolling your eyes[/quote]
You know me very, very well.

You're great at desperate grabs for sympathy. Come back tomorrow and make it not convert. It'll get reopened, probably merged.

It's not fucking over until you delete it.

[Xhuis]

I already did delete it, Haevacht. What do I have to gain by grabbing sympathy? People who like the mode have already liked it and people who do not will not. I am, speaking truthfully and from my heart, very distressed that umbrage is, in fact, kill, and I for the time being have lost motivation to work on it, but it may return later.

In the meantime, please do not make assumptions about me. I never attempt to garner sympathy from people, at least not consciously. I do not like manipulating people.

[Haevacht]

I already did delete it, Haevacht. What do I have to gain by grabbing sympathy? People who like the mode have already liked it and people who do not will not. I am, speaking truthfully and from my heart, very distressed that umbrage is, in fact, kill, and I for the time being have lost motivation to work on it, but it may return later.

In the meantime, please do not make assumptions about me. I never attempt to garner sympathy from people, at least not consciously. I do not like manipulating people.

Then game over.
And you don't have to do something intentionally to be good at it. I'm pretty good at breathing, myself.

Always next time, whenever that may be.

[Cheridan]

branches can be un-deleted and all the code changes are still on the pr

just saying.

[Xhuis]

I know, don't worry. I may be overly dramatic but I still can into github. As I've mentioned though my enjoyment of the project is currently facedown in the shallow pool of our game's depth (get it because of the thread going on right now haha) but everything is subject to change. Although my long writeup is quite dramatic in saying that I failed everyone and would not bring it back, the chances are that in a few weeks I may revive it when I am feeling up to it again. Writing when you are very strongly emotional tends to make one blow things out of proportion.

[Bluespace]

I wonder what direction the design lead(s) intend for tgstation to take tbh.
Can we expect the removal of both cults and rev?
Every round a toss up between traitor and ling?
SS13 becoming "do your job until a traitor kills you?"
I am a mere player, when the design lead cums in my mouth I either swallow or put my heels on and leave.

[Steelpoint]

If one maintainer says you have 48 hours to effect a change before they will close it, that essentially states for fact that you have 48 hours to either make your case or make the requested change.

oranges closing the PR barely a hour after the proclamation is not only a poor PR move, but it shows a lack of professionalism or integrity.

On principle the PR would be reopenend and given 47 hours to effect the demanded changes.

[Armhulen]

If one maintainer says you have 48 hours to effect a change before they will close it, that essentially states for fact that you have 48 hours to either make your case or make the requested change.

oranges closing the PR barely a hour after the proclamation is not only a poor PR move, but it shows a lack of professionalism or integrity.

On principle the PR would be reopenend and given 47 hours to effect the demanded changes.

This above all else

[TrustyGun]

Yeah, even ignoring the rest of the drama, closing the PR without giving the chance for Xhuis to work on it is really fucking shitty. Especially considering that Kor told him he had 48 hours to do that 2 hours prior. Even moreso that Orange's reason was "lol".

Open the PR back up, give him another 48 hours.

[Xhuis]

Follow-up post the day after now that the dust has cleared. List of stuff in no real order:

• I'm no longer immensely frustrated over the whole ordeal and I can think on things more.
• I respect Kor's decision to give me an ultimatum, although I don't like it. With oranges giving his reasoning I can see from his perspective but I do not respect it. Closing PRs because I have a disagreement with the design lead - who has a higher position than you and said that I had time to think and work on it - is not the right thing to do.
• I have less motivation to work on this but it's still there. Just not right now. I will probably wait for a while before I continue but the code and assets remain in case I want to continue at some point.
• Although maintainers have extended an olive branch and offered to open the PR again, for now I will let it stay closed. I do not want to cause more drama by pushing commits that go against what they requested. When I am ready to work on it again I will request its reopening or make another PR.
• Because of how distressed I was last night, my write-ups and general attitude was extremely dramatic. I said a lot of things that weren't true and sounded nothing but petulant. I was pretty whiny but I think that my jabs were justified at the time and I don't regret saying them. I still dislike oranges for sucking up to Kor and taking matters into his own hands when the situation wasn't as bad as it was, and I still dislike Kor for valuing his own opinion above everyone else's (yes, even as the design lead. He hasn't done much in that position. The only post about direction came up after the whole drama with oranges' post.)

Can't think of anything else at the moment. If you have any questions I'm all ears, but I can't stick around for long.

[danno]

11 paragraphs in one post alone
jesus

[Armhulen]

11 paragraphs in one post alone
jesus

reviving this sad ass thread

feels p bad man

[onleavedontatme]

Reminder I'd still merge shadowling if it had no conversion in it.

[Armhulen]

Most active topic:Umbrage: Shadowling Redux (delayed?)

i'd be ready to remove conversion and add this already

[ShadowDimentio]

Reminder I'd still merge shadowling if it had no conversion in it.

Reminder you're a rude dude

[oranges]

Reminder I'd still merge shadowling if it had no conversion in it.

Reminder you're a rude dude

That's rich david

[onleavedontatme]

Most active topic:Umbrage: Shadowling Redux (delayed?)

i'd be ready to remove conversion and add this already

You are free to do so, the code is there for anyone to edit and finish.

[Xhuis]

Eh? Who hath awak'd me from my slumber?

Anyway yeah. I know that this is fine without conversion, and I'll probably continue it when I get the motivation. Right now, however, I am in a turbulent time (moving to another state) and I also have little motivation to continue it. The code is open for anyone who wants to work on it, but until then, just wait until I can pick it up.