Goof Gunsmithing

firecage · Post by **firecage** » Sun Jan 15, 2017 11:32 am #244267

Bottom post of the previous page:

If I have to be honest, at the moment I wouldn't mind if Goofs guncrafting PR is closed, and someone else picks the pieces up in the future and actually makes a working, balanced, and not-fucking-buggy system.

iamgoofball · Sun Jan 15, 2017 11:37 am

Fuck you and die, old buddy old pal Firecage. I

"Wah wah it's unbalanced"

"Balance is shit and I hate it but okay fine I'll offload the balance to someone who knows what they're doing"

"I'm a whiny bitch who doesn't like change or compromise, so I'm going to demand it be closed anyways"

Fuck off to Bay already.

DemonFiren · Post by **DemonFiren** » Sun Jan 15, 2017 11:38 am #244269

>it's another goof tantrum episode

kevinz000 · Post by **kevinz000** » Sun Jan 15, 2017 1:03 pm #244277

DemonFiren wrote:>it's another goof tantrum episode

Reason 8.

Sweaterkittens · Sun Jan 15, 2017 2:03 pm

We need to stop merging Goof's asinine projects until he actually fixes and balances them. I realize that testmerges are intended to highlight issues and get community feedback, but it's quite clear that:

A: Goof doesn't care about balance or bugfixes:

iamgoofball wrote:you can't balance ss13 btw
i'd rather cater to the /k/ nuts who enjoy their time just doing the memes than people arguing balance

I mean, christ, he's literally saying that he doesn't give a shit how unbalanced the game is as a result of his changes. "let's cater to a select few people to ruin the experience for everyone else".

B: Goof cannot take feedback in any way, shape or form:

iamgoofball wrote:i think you all forget that R&D is completed within 5 minutes and materials are gathered within 5 minutes and that any and all progression in this game doesn't matter because it will be QoL'd out of existance

Read: "IT'S A SLIPPERY SLOPE SO I MIGHT AS WELL RUIN IT RIGHT OUT OF THE GATE, RIGHT?"

iamgoofball wrote:Fuck you and die, old buddy old pal Firecage.

Good thing he can take criticism. Why are we still pandering to this petulant child?

DemonFiren wrote:>it's another goof tantrum episode

DemonFiren · Post by **DemonFiren** » Sun Jan 15, 2017 2:12 pm #244286

We're pandering to this petulant child because the division between server and codebase is absolute.

Haevacht · Post by **Haevacht** » Sun Jan 15, 2017 3:43 pm #244295

The petulant child tried to fix an exploit, didn't test which caused it to be entirely fucked, and ma44 didn't test it either. Good work gents.

D&B · Post by **D&B** » Sun Jan 15, 2017 4:07 pm #244298

A. He's saying that because analyzing even the departments you can see there's an intrinsic unbalance. Medbay can't blow up stuff like science can, nor can science plasma flood like Atmos can. Weapons like laser guns and tasers are unbalanced not because of damage but because tasers and stuns are king in this game.

B. Absolutely false. Read the thread rather than sit on firecage's dick. He's been told by multiple players what needs to be changed and he acknowledged them because they wrote like a normal person rather than going "Reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee fuck u goof reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee" right off the bat.

Anyone would be mad if they were told their features are shit and they should just be closed rather than using the thread to post feedback so it can be fixed/improved.

Haevacht · Post by **Haevacht** » Sun Jan 15, 2017 4:24 pm #244304

I almost took you for someone worth listening to, why did you have to change your avatar.

Anyway, fixed one of your bugs goof. Ma4's got a PR up. I only did this to spare the admins the shitstorm from your testmerges.

Post by **Armhulen** » Sun Jan 15, 2017 5:09 pm #244309

firecage wrote:If I have to be honest, at the moment I wouldn't mind if Goofs guncrafting PR is closed, and someone else picks the pieces up in the future and actually makes a working, balanced, and not-fucking-buggy system.

(ok)

firecage · Post by **firecage** » Sun Jan 15, 2017 5:42 pm #244314

D&B wrote:A. He's saying that because analyzing even the departments you can see there's an intrinsic unbalance. Medbay can't blow up stuff like science can, nor can science plasma flood like Atmos can. Weapons like laser guns and tasers are unbalanced not because of damage but because tasers and stuns are king in this game.

B. Absolutely false. Read the thread rather than sit on firecage's dick. He's been told by multiple players what needs to be changed and he acknowledged them because they wrote like a normal person rather than going "Reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee fuck u goof reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee" right off the bat.

Anyone would be mad if they were told their features are shit and they should just be closed rather than using the thread to post feedback so it can be fixed/improved.

Sorry, but I would rather NOT have a buggy unbalanced mess permamerged again like Goofchem was. And unless I forgot, he doesn't care about balance either, so no, he barely listens to a thing anyone says. And christ, I remember goof kitchen, that was a mess to. And then he tried to make Goofmedbay. I wanted to instead go play on Bay during that testmerge.

Perhaps you should stop riding Goof's dick? Besides, I doubt anyone is riding mine, probably a bit on the small side to have any influence.

imblyings · Post by **imblyings** » Sun Jan 15, 2017 5:55 pm #244321

wew lad

D&B · Post by **D&B** » Sun Jan 15, 2017 6:26 pm #244331

firecage wrote:
D&B wrote:A. He's saying that because analyzing even the departments you can see there's an intrinsic unbalance. Medbay can't blow up stuff like science can, nor can science plasma flood like Atmos can. Weapons like laser guns and tasers are unbalanced not because of damage but because tasers and stuns are king in this game.

B. Absolutely false. Read the thread rather than sit on firecage's dick. He's been told by multiple players what needs to be changed and he acknowledged them because they wrote like a normal person rather than going "Reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee fuck u goof reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee" right off the bat.

Anyone would be mad if they were told their features are shit and they should just be closed rather than using the thread to post feedback so it can be fixed/improved.
Sorry, but I would rather NOT have a buggy unbalanced mess permamerged again like Goofchem was. And unless I forgot, he doesn't care about balance either, so no, he barely listens to a thing anyone says. And christ, I remember goof kitchen, that was a mess to. And then he tried to make Goofmedbay. I wanted to instead go play on Bay during that testmerge.

Perhaps you should stop riding Goof's dick? Besides, I doubt anyone is riding mine, probably a bit on the small side to have any influence.

It's more productive to actually give actual feedback and work with the coder rather than insult them at every chance and thread. Even more so with game mechanics being worked on.
And you must be either selectively reading or blind, people have told him in this very thread stuff that should be fixed and I've read his responses and course of action.

DemonFiren · Post by **DemonFiren** » Sun Jan 15, 2017 6:29 pm #244333

imblyings wrote:wew lad

it's almost like there's two shit players shitposting about a shit coder's shit code

imblyings · Post by **imblyings** » Sun Jan 15, 2017 7:06 pm #244344

Play the game and read the post above mine

iamgoofball · Post by **iamgoofball** » Sun Jan 15, 2017 7:07 pm #244345

I have to give demonfiren/shadow/ma44/Kevin props because they actually state specifically what is wrong and provide legit feedback, and even go as far to suggest potential fixes

Firecage just says "ugh close it"

calzilla1 · Post by **calzilla1** » Sun Jan 15, 2017 7:27 pm #244350

Atleast he's trying to make a, generally unfun role, F U N.

John_Oxford · Post by **John_Oxford** » Sun Jan 15, 2017 8:13 pm #244359

goofs done more coding and spent more time on this codebase than you faggots have

dog piling him because you have to have a perfectly balanced absolutely equal game and not anything that remotely resembles fun for anyone involved is cancer and you should feel cancer.

literally kill yourself, we wouldn't have half the shit we have on this server if goof hadn't meme'd it into existance one day.

also you should totally send me a master folder with gunsmithing attached so i can give a shot at sprites and other assorted shit

kevinz000 · Post by **kevinz000** » Sun Jan 15, 2017 8:36 pm #244366

John_Oxford wrote:goofs done more coding and spent more time on this codebase than you faggots have

dog piling him because you have to have a perfectly balanced absolutely equal game and not anything that remotely resembles fun for anyone involved is cancer and you should feel cancer.

literally kill yourself, we wouldn't have half the shit we have on this server if goof hadn't meme'd it into existance one day.

also you should totally send me a master folder with gunsmithing attached so i can give a shot at sprites and other assorted shit

Fuck off Oxford.
Do you really think we didn't try giving feedback calmly only to be brushed off?

ShadowDimentio · Sun Jan 15, 2017 8:55 pm

Now you know how I feel

cedarbridge · Post by **cedarbridge** » Sun Jan 15, 2017 9:12 pm #244377

Its good to see that literally nothing has changed in my small vacation.

iamgoofball · Post by **iamgoofball** » Sun Jan 15, 2017 9:36 pm #244387

cedarbridge wrote:Its good to see that literally nothing has changed in my small vacation.

go back to lifeweb

iamgoofball · Post by **iamgoofball** » Sun Jan 15, 2017 9:36 pm #244388

i don't agree that balance matters so what's wrong with me offloading it onto someone else

Aloraydrel · Post by **Aloraydrel** » Sun Jan 15, 2017 10:22 pm #244401

John_Oxford wrote:goofs done more coding and spent more time on this codebase than you faggots have

dog piling him because you have to have a perfectly balanced absolutely equal game and not anything that remotely resembles fun for anyone involved is cancer and you should feel cancer.

literally kill yourself, we wouldn't have half the shit we have on this server if goof hadn't meme'd it into existance one day.

also you should totally send me a master folder with gunsmithing attached so i can give a shot at sprites and other assorted shit

Terrible bait apply yourself

Post by **oranges** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 12:44 am #244423

iamgoofball wrote:you can't balance ss13 btw

i'd rather cater to the /k/ nuts who enjoy their time just doing the memes than people arguing balance

What you said

What I heard

"I'd rather not get my pr merged rather than just making sure it's in a state where the maintainers who are already quite unsure about the change are happy to merge it"

Mon Jan 16, 2017 12:47 am

the goofball giveth and the goofball taketh away

perhaps the end of le shit on goofball memes will come soon from this

iamgoofball · Post by **iamgoofball** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 1:16 am #244441

oranges wrote:
iamgoofball wrote:you can't balance ss13 btw

i'd rather cater to the /k/ nuts who enjoy their time just doing the memes than people arguing balance
What you said

What I heard

"I'd rather not get my pr merged rather than just making sure it's in a state where the maintainers who are already quite unsure about the change are happy to merge it"

to get it to a state that it would be merged without people complaining about balance would involve stripping out all the weapon customization to the point of "why bother even having the code in the first place"

Luke Cox · Post by **Luke Cox** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 1:30 am #244447

Can we get back to actually discussing how to balance this? The base mechanics work fine, we're wasting time talking about that.

Capacity upgrades need to be severely nerfed or removed entirely, considering that nearly everything can be balanced by making it consume an ungodly amount of power. Some parts should also be mutually exclusive. I don't like the idea of a speed sniper or an automatic taser.

ShadowDimentio · Mon Jan 16, 2017 1:36 am

>Speed sniper

Snipers should be fast

>Automatic taser

Trading accuracy for spam is fine

Post by **Arianya** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 1:41 am #244449

PKPenguin321 wrote:the goofball giveth and the goofball taketh away

perhaps the end of le shit on goofball memes will come soon from this

Maybe if goof didn't brush people off, shit on people for suggesting changes, and open repeated, aggressive meme PRs when hes unhappy about the direction of the codebase, people wouldn't feel like throwing shit back.

Funnily enough, you get back what you put into a conversation, and in goofs case he tends to put in flippancy, arrogance and outright temper tantrums, so he doesn't really get back respect, understanding and patience.

Reminder of some great goof moments from just the last couple of months:

In which Goof flips out about catears and opens the same pull 3 times, twice with merge conflicts and during a feature freeze just to really drive home the lack of actual interest.

In which Goof tries to subvert a player poll and headmin decision because only his opinion matters

In which Goof tries to remove shuttles because he disagrees with administrators ruling regarding them.

In which Goof would rather let an entire set of features die rather then seperate out the questionable features into seperate pulls per a request by maintainer.

And I'm actively ignoring the PRs that are literally just "lets hamfist in a meme reference".

Realistically, anyone other then goof who pulled the same shit would most likely be codebase banned. The fact that he isn't probably speaks well of the features he has implemented, but it doesn't mean everyone should have to grin and bear it when goof comes back with:

iamgoofball wrote:Fuck you and die, old buddy old pal Firecage. I

"Wah wah it's unbalanced"

"Balance is shit and I hate it but okay fine I'll offload the balance to someone who knows what they're doing"

"I'm a whiny bitch who doesn't like change or compromise, so I'm going to demand it be closed anyways"

Fuck off to Bay already.

Luke Cox · Post by **Luke Cox** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 1:58 am #244451

ShadowDimentio wrote:>Speed sniper

Snipers should be fast

>Automatic taser

Trading accuracy for spam is fine

Fair point with the sniper, we just need a longer cooldown between shots. As for the tasers, I would agree if it was lasers or disablers, but given how powerful stuns are I don't like the idea of mass taser spam

Mon Jan 16, 2017 2:26 am

Arianya wrote:
PKPenguin321 wrote:the goofball giveth and the goofball taketh away

perhaps the end of le shit on goofball memes will come soon from this
le shitting on goofball meme

enjoy your nogunz

Doctor Pork · Post by **Doctor Pork** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 3:28 am #244475

This is thread is taking a super negative turn into everyone just shitting on eachother instead of giving feedback on this project. How about we all say something nice about one another before we keep going? I'll start.

Kevinz000 I appreciate that you are trying to keep the best interest of the player element in mind balance-wise.

Goof I think its really nice that you're willing to spend your time trying to come up with new things for the playerbase to enjoy.

Oxford, your zeal for this project is very profound and it's clearly something you care about and thats just dandy.

DemonFiren you make a good argument for #NotAllLizards sometimes.

captain sawrge · Mon Jan 16, 2017 4:22 am

PKPenguin321 wrote:
Arianya wrote:
PKPenguin321 wrote:the goofball giveth and the goofball taketh away

perhaps the end of le shit on goofball memes will come soon from this
le shitting on goofball meme
enjoy your nogunz

but there's already guns in the game that all perform a specific function applicable in certain situations with a limited supply that have been carefully balanced over the years

ShadowDimentio · Mon Jan 16, 2017 4:40 am

"""Carefully balanced"""

Incomptinence · Mon Jan 16, 2017 6:09 am

Well since even our loose sense of balance must fall before mandatory appeasement of his royal codesty Barron Von Goof...
...
let it make meteor pens.

Sweaterkittens · Mon Jan 16, 2017 2:42 pm

Arianya wrote:Snip

Said it better than I ever could have. The reason it seems like everyone is "coming in hot" in a goof thread is because we've seen it all before. We've seen his tantrums, we've seen his spite PRs, everything. If this was the first time he'd tried to shoehorn some shitty, unbalanced mechanic into the game we might be more amiable, but it's not, and we're all fucking tired of it.

Doctor_Pork I appreciate your attempts to keep things civil.

Wyzack · Post by **Wyzack** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 3:13 pm #244570

Goofball specifically thanked people who gave specific feedback rather than saying "its bad"

firecage · Post by **firecage** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 4:03 pm #244573

Wyzack, if its bad, its bad, and said PR only began to get worse and worse. I am not going to try and play nice with Goof, since I have seen this happen time and time again, especially with him cherry picking issues he will listen to(or if people complain about it looooong and hard enough, like with inhands). He does not care about balance, many times he doesn't even care whether his features are bugridden or not. And if it tends to cause crashes or client freezes? Water on a ducks back. If this was his first big PR, or even his second, I would have been extremely lenient and nice, but considering the previous disasters...

Goof Kitchen
Goof Chemistry(which took a fuckload of PR's afterwards to work out all the kinks, balance it, fix bugs, etc. Especially with things which seems like it wasn't even tested in the first place.)
Goof Medbay(Man that testmerge didn't last long with its near universal hate)
Reagent Blobs(Christ they took long to fix, and depending on the type of reagent blob, still completely broken in balance terms)
Freon(Christ, atleast it no longer freezes the server. Though the several times I have seen a traitor release it in large amount(or vent a canister through atmos into distro....christ the fucking lag)
And many others

And then thats not even mentioning his ENDLESS stream of meme, rage, or spite PR's which is, frankly, a huge pile of spam. So perhaps I have just grown tired of this same shit playing out over and over?

https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/ ... =%E2%9C%93

Screemonster · Mon Jan 16, 2017 4:15 pm

"It's bad" or "it sucks" or "close now" or "goof is shit" don't actually offer anything and are just noise though.

Unless you can quantify exactly in what way it is bad/sucks that's of no use to anyone. Not even anyone who might want to pick it up and make something workable with it if goof does take his ball and go home, 'cause fancy that - they don't have any idea what you dislike about the code either other than the guy whose name is on the PR.

firecage · Post by **firecage** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 4:27 pm #244577

Screemonster, actually, I am already helping ma44 with his incarnation of it. Well, atleast helping him via words. I cannot into PR'ing to a PR.

ShadowDimentio · Mon Jan 16, 2017 5:35 pm

I'm far from a fan of Goof (Goofchem was a mistake) but give him a fucking chance you whiny entitled brats. If anybody else had coded this, would you be so ready with your torches and pitchforks screeching HE DOESN'T CARE ABOUT THE GAME HE'S UNBALANCING MUH GUNS LYNCH HIM, or would you at least humor the guy until he was ready for it to get merged?

Jesus.

captain sawrge · Mon Jan 16, 2017 6:21 pm

ShadowDimentio wrote:I'm far from a fan of Goof (Goofchem was a mistake) but give him a fucking chance you whiny entitled brats. If anybody else had coded this, would you be so ready with your torches and pitchforks screeching HE DOESN'T CARE ABOUT THE GAME HE'S UNBALANCING MUH GUNS LYNCH HIM, or would you at least humor the guy until he was ready for it to get merged?

Jesus.

He's been working on this for months and has had two test merges and plenty of feedback and it is still full of problems. He knew this and still insisted on having it merged as soon as possible then threw a fit when people told him it's not ready yet and still needs more work.

danno · Post by **danno** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 6:38 pm #244626

ShadowDimentio wrote:I'm far from a fan of Goof (Goofchem was a mistake) but give him a fucking chance you whiny entitled brats. If anybody else had coded this, would you be so ready with your torches and pitchforks screeching HE DOESN'T CARE ABOUT THE GAME HE'S UNBALANCING MUH GUNS LYNCH HIM, or would you at least humor the guy until he was ready for it to get merged?

Jesus.

If anyone else had coded this just how it is the reaction would be the same
it's not the face that goof coded it, it's the fact that it doesn't work properly and tosses all balance up into the air just for the sake of gimmicks

cedarbridge · Post by **cedarbridge** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 8:10 pm #244650

ShadowDimentio wrote:I'm far from a fan of Goof (Goofchem was a mistake) but give him a fucking chance you whiny entitled brats. If anybody else had coded this, would you be so ready with your torches and pitchforks screeching HE DOESN'T CARE ABOUT THE GAME HE'S UNBALANCING MUH GUNS LYNCH HIM, or would you at least humor the guy until he was ready for it to get merged?

Jesus.

Yes

Luke Cox · Post by **Luke Cox** » Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:13 am #244747

You people are fucking children

Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:24 am

I'm just gonna lock this since the original PR was closed. Feel extremely free to make a new thread for ma44's attempt to finish this at https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/23045

Actually there's a new thread already made here

Separating the GOOFBALL discussion from the legit guncrafting balance w/e discussion that ma44 needs to hear will be good for all of us.