Cult Update Suggestions and Feedback

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Oldman Robustin
 
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Cult Update Suggestions and Feedback

Postby Oldman Robustin » Wed Jan 25, 2017 12:39 am #247444

So I'll be opening a PR this week for my cult update. I'm pretty happy with how the blood cult has turned out, but there are still issues with the mode and goals that I'd like to achieve.

1) The Cult Master

So I'm adding a Cult Master. In a round any given acolyte will have a new verb that nominates themselves for the role of Cult Master. That nomination will prompt a cult-wide vote. If the nominee wins a majority of the votes, they are designated the Cult Master. The master will get the ever-useful LARGETEXT, but I also contemplate giving the master a couple special abilities that will assist them in coordinating and leading the cult.

One such ability that I've already coded is a 'final reckoning' which can only be used once per round. Final reckoning is a moderate channeled ability that creates visual effects on every cultist in the game (revealing their true nature) before finally completing and summoning every cultist to the master's position. This is a good fit for the 'master' role because not only does it assist in coordinating the cult, it also is a very high power ability that has significant drawbacks and therefore requires sufficient wisdom and experience to use properly - it could win the game for the cult just as easily as it could doom them (it identifies all the cultists and puts them in one location, not hard to see all the ways that could go wrong).

I don't want to overcomplicate or overpower the master role, ideally it would be optional if the cult didn't trust any one acolyte at the helm, but I think the role could use 1-2 other features that would make the cult feel more like a unified/coordinated force and not just herding cats. Remember, this role will be the first merit-based antag role so you can be more creative with abilities that would otherwise be suicide in the hands of the average player.

2) Tweaks to the Nar-Sie Summon

This is a delicate issue. The reality is that the longer you make the summoning window, the more the cult will have an incentive to hole up somewhere ridiculous. We saw this with dominators and we're seeing it now with Ratvar. If you give the crew 5-10 minutes to stop your "game-ender" then the only way you'll succeed is by having it buried behind layers and layers of r_walls and defenses. I have mixed feelings about this style since it can encourage some pretty cancerous tactics. Often I feel that this way of ending rounds encourages one side to beef up for an eternity and then by the time the clock is ticking, the fight defenders will be impenetrable unless someone brought maxcaps.

By having the Nar-Sie rune at ~50s, I tried to keep the summoning more "fluid", the cult has limited defensive capability - I want the summons to feel more ad hoc. The absolute best ending to any cult round is when the crew shows up and puts up a spirited fight, regardless of who wins. I like the shorter summons, and the cult often does try to draw the rune in "accessible" locations, but sometimes you have people who love to win (like myself) and will do shit like summon in space, summon in a secret inaccessible maint room, and try to avoid conflict entirely. It's a struggle to balance because while it is satisfying to watch a single cultist get a clutch victory with clever summoning tactics, it can also deprive the round of a satisfying climax when a larger (winning) cult just takes a shortcut to victory by cheesing the summon. Having additional maps also complicates the effort because while its pretty easy to find any non-space summoning on Box, Delta is a whole different story.

So I'm looking for feedback on this. One change I'm considering is requiring the cult to summon in a given (random) room like the chapel, engineering, cargo bay, etc.



3) Cut the unused stuff, add useful stuff, improve the marginal stuff


There are a few runes and talismans that are essentially dead. Disguise talisman has potential but its just too niche to justify using it. Tome creation may be a necessary evil but I'm not fond of the need for a talisman that only gets used .1% of the time. Veiling is like disguising in that its niche, but it has even more potential than disguising does. The problem is that the talismans mechanics are a little clunky and I'm not sure there's any solution for it, part of the problem is that most of the places where you would want invisible runes are the sort of forward bases where the ground is still going to be covered with gibs, potential cult structures, cult gear that people left lying around, etc. Rune of Drain Life is a joke, I thought I had removed it already, with unholy water, pylons, and raise dead there's already a ton of ways to undo damage to a cultist's body. Artificers face extinction now that cults can produce shards/shells with a decent base established and pylons can repair constructs, their utility outside of producing those items is extremely limited - they need something new to do.

The base items are pretty fun but the berserker robe is very niche (especially with shotguns so prevalent) and the hardsuit is incredibly niche as well. I could see myself cutting one or both to make room for something else. I would also be open to adding another structure if there were items or an ability that would justify it.

For useful ideas, I'm kinda drawing blanks here. With a couple runes/talismans/items cut, I'd have room to add more, but I'm not sure what they'd do yet. I'd like to have some mechanic that lets the cult recover from early discovery - ideally it would give the cult a fighting chance but certainly not the advantage. I would love to see some features that would either add more to the cult flavor or give the cult something ~FUN~ to play with. I've toyed with the idea of a super-construct that would require 5 soul shards + 5 shells that would have 5 abilities, and each soul given to the super-construct would then control some aspect of the construct's actions (one player controls movement + melee attacks, one controls the ranged attack, one controls an AOE structure-conversion, etc).
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Re: Cult Update Suggestions and Feedback

Postby ShadowDimentio » Wed Jan 25, 2017 12:45 am #247452

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO

DO NOT TOUCH BLOODCULT, IT'S PERFECT RIGHT NOW. NO MORE CHANGES NEEDED, IT'S ABSOLUTELY FINE, I DON'T WANT ANOTHER NEWCULT FIASCO. OLDMAN YOU WERE THE ONE THAT SAVED US, PLEASE DON'T DO THIS
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Re: Cult Update Suggestions and Feedback

Postby Oldman Robustin » Wed Jan 25, 2017 12:48 am #247457

ShadowDimentio wrote:NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO

DO NOT TOUCH BLOODCULT, IT'S PERFECT RIGHT NOW. NO MORE CHANGES NEEDED, IT'S ABSOLUTELY FINE, I DON'T WANT ANOTHER NEWCULT FIASCO. OLDMAN YOU WERE THE ONE THAT SAVED US, PLEASE DON'T DO THIS


This isn't newcult, this is literally "Im adjusting 10% of cult's shit". Also at least read the damn post before responding. You may think its perfect but others, myself included, see room for improvement.
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Re: Cult Update Suggestions and Feedback

Postby ChangelingRain » Wed Jan 25, 2017 2:02 am #247486

So the final reckoning is basically "draw nar-sie rune while pressing ability button, instantly win once the rune appears"?
Because you can't have that, simply because half the challenge is getting people on the rune, and if you remove the one thing that at least marginally balances drawing the rune, you're going to end up with a cult that wins a lot more, especially given that the role doing it will have LOUD MCYELLTEXT.
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Re: Cult Update Suggestions and Feedback

Postby Oldman Robustin » Wed Jan 25, 2017 3:16 am #247502

Manifest Ghost has ensured that the battle is basically over once the rune is drawn. If cult's win rate shoots up it wont be hard for me to whittle it back down by tweaking the numbers on stuns or limited the # of ghosts you can manifest.

I honestly don't expect most leaders to survive if things go sour for the cult. Leaders tend to be proactive but if the cult can't create sufficient chaos/distractions then the leader will get cornered in no time. Big text doesn't mean shit the moment you're stunned by sec. Plus, pretty typical for you, you ignore the fact that the best tactical use for the ability is to summon the cult BEFORE you start drawing the rune, not after.

The potential nerfs to summoning locations (e.g. requiring summons in a specific room that changes round to round) would be more than enough to counteract any benefits the master would provide, but I'd rather a team lose by giving their best with a difficult objective rather than a team fail because they had an easy objective that they failed due to incompetence and disorganization.
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Re: Cult Update Suggestions and Feedback

Postby Weepo » Wed Jan 25, 2017 3:32 am #247506

Please give the cult leader the voice of god so I can order my cultists into a coma when they're being a fucker.

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Re: Cult Update Suggestions and Feedback

Postby Bombadil » Wed Jan 25, 2017 4:21 am #247523

Voice of Nar nar "BLEED"
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Re: Cult Update Suggestions and Feedback

Postby Oldman Robustin » Wed Jan 25, 2017 5:36 am #247531

Weepo wrote:Please give the cult leader the voice of god so I can order my cultists into a coma when they're being a fucker.


I legit considered giving the master an ability to expel the soul of a cultist and offer that role to ghosts (assuming the cultist was being a fucker).

Too much salt, too many ahelps, not worth it.
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Re: Cult Update Suggestions and Feedback

Postby XDTM » Wed Jan 25, 2017 8:06 am #247559

I'd just like to see the Voice of God more often, but people are calling it OP even when trying to add it to wizard.

Otherwise, these all seem like good ideas. I had thought of a director role, but i imagined it as an AI-like speech-only observer that could look through the eyes of cultists, being the Herald of Nar'Sie or something like that.

I like the idea of having to summon in a given area, it removes a lot of potential exploits.
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Re: Cult Update Suggestions and Feedback

Postby Armhulen » Wed Jan 25, 2017 8:16 am #247562

I love the idea of an imposing voice but make the cult master obviously cultist. No drop robes that make him powerful, runes on his face... all you can to make him the final boss before you destroy the summoning rune.
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Re: Cult Update Suggestions and Feedback

Postby Nabski » Wed Jan 25, 2017 3:27 pm #247597

Making the cult master count double for invocations seemed like an OK idea for about half a second, but really wouldn't be.The voltron construct sounds stupidly fun. Possibly just combine for a while then break back apart into lesser constructs to give a power spike when summoning rather than "This thing will beat you up, then we will go summon" Actually if you can get 5 shards all together why aren't you just summoning.

Talisman that when used on a door infects the next person to use it with cult babbling for some time period. Use it for a weak silence before you stun them, or mess with other departments doors to throw heat off your area of operations?

Unholy Holy water. If you managed to unbless the chaplains water tank when they are mass deconverting, it still gives the "deconverted" message, but actually doesn't fix it. This is really a terrible idea but it would be nice to see some change away from "Security starts mass jailing everyone until they drink holy water. Then they forget who they've processed and who they haven't." being an effective countermeasure. This too messes with the mode balance too much.

Cult Summon location: Being forced to not summon in space/mining/xenobiology is a plus. Is this decided at the start of the round? Do they invoke to call the summoning circle then are told where it is? Summon in multiple visible locations, so security has to decide where to respond to?
Other thoughts on this front: Creating a random circle every time a security member/mindshielded crew/head is offered seems like it could be neat, but that might lead to security captured and held hostage until everything is ready. Freeing them as security would be awesome but in reality you're just taking players out of the round without making them ghosts. Adding an extra possible summoning location every X time (based on cult members, % of converted crew, whatever) seems good but encourages just waiting until you get where you want.

Ramble Ramble Ramble.

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Re: Cult Update Suggestions and Feedback

Postby XDTM » Wed Jan 25, 2017 4:20 pm #247606

Nabski wrote:Talisman that when used on a door infects the next person to use it with cult babbling for some time period. Use it for a weak silence before you stun them, or mess with other departments doors to throw heat off your area of operations?


Instead of building cult airlocks, you should be able to curse them with either runic metal or a talisman to both deny access and give the babbling speech plus a short/medium stun. Would give cultists time to react before they're found out by that nosey greyshirt in maint.
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Re: Cult Update Suggestions and Feedback

Postby Nabski » Wed Jan 25, 2017 4:29 pm #247608

Building cult airlocks still is more a clock thing. I was trying to think of a trap that has a relatively low cost/risk but might still be worth doing. Is that guy yelling in the radio but then said he is ok a cultist, or did he just touch a shitty airlock and not know it? You're revealed either way, but it throws security off a little.

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Re: Cult Update Suggestions and Feedback

Postby Oldman Robustin » Wed Jan 25, 2017 6:30 pm #247638

The blood cult got airlocks before clock cult was even around. Their current airlock already knocks back and briefly stuns non-cultists. I might add cult babbling to a few items like unholy water, the doors, maybe ill update one of the robes with a version that induces cult babbling on anyone within X tiles. Making "trap" doors would be nice for the cult, but its really important that the cult doesn't become too obnoxious to fight either. I loathed the idea of "stun mine" runes and trap doors kinda fits into that category, if I was an officer who was patrolling maint when suddenly a door knocks me on my ass and then a cultist runes out and stuns me while I'm down... I would not be very happy with the state of cult.

I like the idea of the construct merging being a temporary rune. The big issue becomes getting 5 constructs into the same room, constructs fucking love to wander off and never return. Maybe I should give every cultist the ability to recall the constructs they've created, hmm.

If its a temporary effect then perhaps I should make it able to include human cultists, with the ultimate "construct" varying in name/form/appearance/abilities depending on its composition. 5 cultists combined would be more of a flesh abomination, 5 constructs would be a large construct with abilities that share the themes of what constructs can do. If I wanted to get really crazy I'd give the construct abilities based on the composition of its lesser constructs, 5 juggernauts would be a slow, nigh-invincible, being that would 1-shot r_walls and each "constituent" would be able to place forcewalls at range to help trap victims and would have their own independent melee attack. Once the spell ends then each constituent would take an adjusted portion of the damage that the whole creature took - unless the creature gets killed in which case RIP those 5 guys...

but yea that would be an insane amount of effort to code, did I mention I can't code? It would be feasible for me to have a few variants but even then the thought of having the code save the identity of each 5 users, have them share control of a mega-construct, then plop them back out with adjusted health, gives me a headache.


Re: Cult Master, giving them an overtly cult appearance is a fun thought but frankly stealth is the most important aspect of cultists and even as the station is filled with cultists, making security hesitate for a moment before shooting at you is a big deal. Giving the master an overt appearance would be a huge downside and it would make it difficult for them to help lead the cult if they had to constantly stay off-camera.

You can already "unholy" the chaplain's water with your tome, the fake message would be annoying to counter but its also insanely niche since slapping the brig's holy water with a tome undetected would happen in like .00001% of rounds.


My thoughts:

I think the summoning will be 3 locations, decided at roundstart, where "the veil is weak enough" to enable summoning. Just one location would prevent a metagame where the crew just waits around for a summoning attempt and then fucks that room up with bombs/plasma/deconstruction/etc. I'm still a little uneasy because the cult's often have good bases full of supplies, structures, and equipment and they have to abandon that to summon - but I think the cults will learn to adapt and teleport the structures/equipment (hit structures with tomes move them btw) to where they want to summon. The crew's effort to stop the summoning when its somewhere accessible on station has produced some of the best fights I've seen in SS13 so I'm eager to see more of that.

I also forgot talisman of horrors in the original post. It's a great talisman but once again its just a little too niche. It's effect is pretty strong with the target completely out of their mind and frequently stunned, there's no attack animation to give you away, but there are very few situations where you just want to fuck someone up for a few minutes when you couldve just stunned them and dragged them into maint. Perhaps making the talisman multi-use, not giving it an in-hand sprite, or making it a screenwide AOE, would make it viable... but outside of being annoying what purpose does it serve? I mean there's a chance your victim will pass out near you and make for an easy sacrifice but otherwise the best it might do is convince people there's changelings around. I don't have any easy answers for this talisman, I probably won't cut it but I don't want to make it so good that fighting the cult means constantly being bombarded by hallucinations. The cult should be fun to fight as well as fun to play.

Talisman of veiling, I might try to make it so that it conceals virtually all cult-related objects (gibs, remains, structures, tiles/walls/airlocks, weapons, talismans, items, etc.) but its still pretty clunky... what kind of base do you want to be invisible? If its a big active base then people would just instantly want to reveal everything so they can get back to work, if its a small outpost then why not just make it somewhere absurdly hard to find so you don't have to deal with the hassle? Regardless, I will probably make this talisman hide more objects, have several/unlimited uses, and maybe even take some of the "disguise" theming and lets it turn armor/weapons/talismans/tomes into ordinary variants.

I have a few ideas for another structure, perhaps giving any cultist within 3 tiles Xray vision so they can see incoming threats, with an additional function of announcing in cult chat when a cultist falls under 50 health.

Lastly, part of me still hates talisman of arming because of its "retard magnet" effect. Putting on the robes make you instantly valid to everyone and the sword is still weaker than just using a stun talisman most of the time, but it looks robust to newbies so while roundstart robes are a thing of the past (thank god) you still have cultists who think the best midgame strat is to throw on the robes and start charging random crew. To a lesser extent this is true with the forge robes too, shielded robes are nice but people tend to use them prematurely just to fuck with the crew. Maybe let the master disable "overt" equipment so that forges/arming are off until the master dies or re-enables it? Should I try to make robes/swords more useful (they currently offer modest armor) to justify using them?
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Re: Cult Update Suggestions and Feedback

Postby onleavedontatme » Wed Jan 25, 2017 6:55 pm #247649

The cult is already entirely capable of winning without the station even knowing the round type and more than capable of stomping sec in a straight up fight if they establish themselves.

Cult loses to

1. Security immediately leaving as soon as they know it is cult. If you make them even less fun to fight or find then this will probably happen more often

2. New cultists just being lost and disorganized. Cult master is a good idea you should add that

3. Security just searching the entire crew and giving everyone holy water. Unless you remove deconversion or make it against the rules to randomly search you probably won't fix this (and if you do go back to step 1)

tl;dr boss cultist is a good idea, most of the rest will be bad or won't matter

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Re: Cult Update Suggestions and Feedback

Postby Nabski » Wed Jan 25, 2017 7:16 pm #247656

The airlock thing wasn't intended to stun or be overt. It was just intended as a way like disguise to throw off security. I meant it like mute sting works. You won't know about it until you try to say something. Another possible use would be put it outside your base doors. If someone spots you and says "Cult in medbay" you would hear it as any cultist team chat would, but it would buy some time. (talisman of horrors was actually what I was thinking about when I said this. Unless it's some weird large crowd situation, I've never wanted to apply it when I could stun instead).

That I didn't already know you could unholy the holy water means it's already such limited use I guess.

Re: summoning location. Blood cult becomes the mobile cult with one time effects and the like, clock is more building? The cooldown timer on some of the archives already makes it unlikely that you'll get too many uses out of them. Maybe rather than buildings players get a one use paper on conversion that can pick one of the things you could currently get? Make it more about finding and controlling teleport runes. If security finds one do they destroy it or lay a trap for anyone that may use it?

Retard magnet: I feel for it when I was new. I still get tempted by them but know it's not worth it until I manage to win a highlander. Easy way to make them more useful. If you would kill someone with a sword it converts them (without a book, so we have to book talisman. Encourages still using runes instead of murder). Stun or slip reduction on robes (balance sheds a tear)? How about can't be handcuffed while wearing robes (either as can't be cuffed, or it's like a 1 use ability that destroys the robes).



RIP Megadude, you were too hard and coordinated to code. I could see it matter more if it was an alternate victory. Sometimes you want to form up a 12 person dude, sometimes summon. Maybe it could force cultists into it so less coordination required. They get a resist button that will remove them in a minute.

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Re: Cult Update Suggestions and Feedback

Postby Armhulen » Wed Jan 25, 2017 7:25 pm #247664

I like the idea of the cult building a massive base, with the cult master being the final boss before you can interrupt the summoning.
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Re: Cult Update Suggestions and Feedback

Postby Oldman Robustin » Thu Jan 26, 2017 2:51 am #247800

@Kor

There's a lot more subtlety to it then that, cult is great on offensive but tends to blow hot dick on defense without an abundance of constructs. Your abillity to walk up and melee stun people is rendered moot when sec is standing outside your base with guns trained on the door, flashbangs go out, I've seen cults with big numbers get squashed because they thought a few talismans and swords would be enough when armed-to-the-hilt sec shows up and starts spraying the room with buckshot.

I think you're really understating the impact that forcing the cult to summon in a designated room on station would have.

@Nabski

Stun reduction in robes is a pretty fair change, I think reduction isnt explored enough since we tend to just go from STUN = DONE to STUN IMMUNE with very little mechanics in between.

You inadvertantly reminded me of one idea I had though, for a comeback mechanic, if cult loses X members within X minutes, or maybe if the cult falls to X% (very low) of active crew, then the cult gains access to "conversion talismans" that could replenish their numbers and keep them in contention without turning the tides. I dunno.
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Re: Cult Update Suggestions and Feedback

Postby ShadowDimentio » Thu Jan 26, 2017 3:17 am #247803

I love cult as it is right now. Building a huge antag autism fort is clockcuck's thing, and it's pretty lame there too. I guess I'd be hesistantly in favor of trying this under the pretense that it be easy to revert when everyone hates it.
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"You guys splitting the 20 bucks cost to hire your ex again?"
-lntigracy

"Wew. Congrats. It's been actual years since anyone tried to make fun of me for being divorced. You caught me, I'm tilted. Here is your trophy."
-Timbrewolf

"I prefer my coffees to run dry too *snorts a line of maxwell house*"
-Super Aggro Crag

"You don't have an evil bone in your body, unless togopal comes for a sleepover"
-Bluespace

">Paying over a $1000 for a lump of silicon and plastic
Lol"
-Anonmare

"Then why did you get that boob job?"
-DrPillzRedux

"You take that back you colonial mongrel"
-Docprofsmith

"I don't care whether or not someone with an IQ 3 standard deviations below my own thinks they enjoy Wizard rounds."
-Malkraz

User avatar
D&B
 
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2016 2:23 am
Location: *teleports behind you*
Byond Username: Repukan

Re: Cult Update Suggestions and Feedback

Postby D&B » Thu Jan 26, 2017 4:26 am #247820

What if you gave the cult master some sort of scorched ground ability.

Basically, if the cult is fucked and a high number of cultists die, you can summon their ghosts as naked humans along with hostile NPCs. The creatures could be passive towards cultists so they can rune teleport away or make a quick escape while the creatures rush down nearby sec/absorb bullets for the cult.
Spoiler:
[20:26:02]ADMIN: PM: [censored admin]->[censored]: Welp. It was just a prank bro isn't a very good excuse when it comes to unprovoked nonantag murder, but since this is your first time doing it and you seem to understand the problem instead of a bannu I'm just going to leave you with a warning. Please PLEASE don't do this again in the future, as funny as crackhead broken bottle memes can be. Alrighty? Do you have any input on this?
[20:26:39]ADMIN: PM: [censored]->[censored admin]: Alright, no problem. I have some input. Fuck my boy pussy.
[20:27:06]ADMIN: PM: [censored admin]->[censored]: Okay then. Have fun.
[20:31:29]ADMIN: PM: [censored admin]->[censored]: Excuse me?

J_Madison wrote:that's a stupid fucking stat
you don't play, you've never played
lying little shit with your bullshit stat
fuck you

ColonicAcid wrote:and with enough practise i too could blow my own dick so well that only the gods know how it feels.

User avatar
Oldman Robustin
 
Joined: Tue May 13, 2014 2:18 pm
Byond Username: ForcefulCJS

Re: Cult Update Suggestions and Feedback

Postby Oldman Robustin » Thu Jan 26, 2017 3:15 pm #247901

You might have the right idea D&B - there is an event that functions like a Construct Portal Storm, basically the station gets a warning and portals begin to appear on the station, when it all said and done about 12 constructs mixed between juggs/wraiths/arti's appear randomly on the station.

It's not that potent of an event, the juggs are easy to outrun and the wraiths (which use simple AI) are easy to exploit or focus down, arti's just run away (and occasionally try to heal another construct, although they're usually too spread out).

With some tweaks that might be a way for a badly losing cult to generate a modest amount of chaos that would give them an opening to nab some people for conversions/sacrifices.
Image

qwert
 
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2014 2:24 pm
Byond Username: Ohlos

Re: Cult Update Suggestions and Feedback

Postby qwert » Tue Jan 31, 2017 7:01 pm #250130

It is kind of dissapointing, that cult is more about AYYY LMAO PAPER TALISMAN U STUNNED NAO and totally not about having some complex rituals for things like giving certain people(or whole station)
Spoiler:
sanity damaging dreams about noneuclidiean architecture city/ deploying creepy fog and shoggoth tier lovecraftian monster hordes rolling out of it/ voodoo dolls memery

onleavedontatme
 
Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2015 10:26 pm
Byond Username: KorPhaeron

Re: Cult Update Suggestions and Feedback

Postby onleavedontatme » Wed Feb 01, 2017 1:17 am #250247

>walk into maint
>lizard says hi to me
>stunpapers me
>drags me into a 1 tile hidden area with a tele rune, takes me to a box in the middle of space
>get turned into an artificer
>go back and fly to security outside the station, burst into security, magic missile the captain, drag him out, kill him
>warp him back to the space base
>everyone else warps there and we summon while the crew can't do anything

Unless the cult is horrifically incompetent this is pretty much my experience on both sides. For all the fancy shit cult has its mostly just parasting+teleport network+standing in a square at the end.

User avatar
ShadowDimentio
 
Joined: Thu May 08, 2014 3:15 am
Byond Username: David273

Re: Cult Update Suggestions and Feedback

Postby ShadowDimentio » Wed Feb 01, 2017 1:33 am #250251

I know, it's great.
Spoiler:
"Clowns are different you can't trust those shifty fucks you never know what they're doing or if they're willing to eat a dayban for some cheap yuks."
-Not-Dorsidarf

"The amount of people is the amount of times the sound is played... on top of itself. And with sybil populations on the shuttle..."
-Remie Richards

"I just spent all fucking day playing fallen london and sunless sea and obsessing over how creepy the fucking dawn machine is and only just clocked now that your avatar is the fucking dawn machine. Nobody vote for this disgusting new sequence blasphemer he wants to kill the gods"
-Stickymayhem

"Drank a cocktail of orange Gatorade and mint mouthwash on accident. Pretty sure I'm going to die, I am on the verge of vomit. It was nice knowing you guys"
-PKPenguin321

"You're too late, you will have to fetch them from the top of my tower, built by zombies, slaves, zombie slaves and garitho's will to live!"
-Armhulen

"This is like being cooked alive in a microwave oven which utilises the autistic end of the light spectrum to cook you."
-DarkFNC

"Penguins are the second race to realise 2D>3D"
-Anonmare

"Paul Blart mall cops if they all had ambitions of joining the Waffen-SS"
-Anonmare

"These logs could kill a dragon much less a man"
-Armhulenn

">7 8 6
WHAT MADNESS IS THIS? POETIC ANARCHY!"
-Wyzack

"We didn't kick one goofball out only to have another one come in like a fucking revolving door"
-Kraseo

"There's a difference between fucking faggots and being a fucking faggot."
-Anonmare

"You guys splitting the 20 bucks cost to hire your ex again?"
-lntigracy

"Wew. Congrats. It's been actual years since anyone tried to make fun of me for being divorced. You caught me, I'm tilted. Here is your trophy."
-Timbrewolf

"I prefer my coffees to run dry too *snorts a line of maxwell house*"
-Super Aggro Crag

"You don't have an evil bone in your body, unless togopal comes for a sleepover"
-Bluespace

">Paying over a $1000 for a lump of silicon and plastic
Lol"
-Anonmare

"Then why did you get that boob job?"
-DrPillzRedux

"You take that back you colonial mongrel"
-Docprofsmith

"I don't care whether or not someone with an IQ 3 standard deviations below my own thinks they enjoy Wizard rounds."
-Malkraz

User avatar
PKPenguin321
In-Game Game Master
 
Joined: Tue Jul 01, 2014 7:02 pm
Location: U S A, U S A, U S A
Byond Username: PKPenguin321
Github Username: PKPenguin321

Re: Cult Update Suggestions and Feedback

Postby PKPenguin321 » Wed Feb 01, 2017 4:25 am #250337

Kor wrote:>walk into maint
>lizard says hi to me
>stunpapers me
>drags me into a 1 tile hidden area with a tele rune, takes me to a box in the middle of space
>get turned into an artificer
>go back and fly to security outside the station, burst into security, magic missile the captain, drag him out, kill him
>warp him back to the space base
>everyone else warps there and we summon while the crew can't do anything

Unless the cult is horrifically incompetent this is pretty much my experience on both sides. For all the fancy shit cult has its mostly just parasting+teleport network+standing in a square at the end.

space summoning is a bug that is being fixed
i play Lauser McMauligan. clown name is Cold-Ass Honkey
i have three other top secret characters as well.
tell the best admin how good he is
Spoiler:
Image

User avatar
Gun Hog
 
Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2014 5:19 am
Byond Username: Gun Hog

Re: Cult Update Suggestions and Feedback

Postby Gun Hog » Wed Feb 01, 2017 4:38 am #250349

To be fair, building a cult base (Blood or Steampunk) in maint is a crazy risky idea given the typical traffic. I do not blame them for resorting to lavaland, space, or white ship bases. One grey shirt wandering into your maint base is all it takes to snuff out your cult before it truly begins.

User avatar
ShadowDimentio
 
Joined: Thu May 08, 2014 3:15 am
Byond Username: David273

Re: Cult Update Suggestions and Feedback

Postby ShadowDimentio » Wed Feb 01, 2017 4:41 am #250352

Making maint more sprawling and dark (why the fuck are there so many windows and lights) would help.
Spoiler:
"Clowns are different you can't trust those shifty fucks you never know what they're doing or if they're willing to eat a dayban for some cheap yuks."
-Not-Dorsidarf

"The amount of people is the amount of times the sound is played... on top of itself. And with sybil populations on the shuttle..."
-Remie Richards

"I just spent all fucking day playing fallen london and sunless sea and obsessing over how creepy the fucking dawn machine is and only just clocked now that your avatar is the fucking dawn machine. Nobody vote for this disgusting new sequence blasphemer he wants to kill the gods"
-Stickymayhem

"Drank a cocktail of orange Gatorade and mint mouthwash on accident. Pretty sure I'm going to die, I am on the verge of vomit. It was nice knowing you guys"
-PKPenguin321

"You're too late, you will have to fetch them from the top of my tower, built by zombies, slaves, zombie slaves and garitho's will to live!"
-Armhulen

"This is like being cooked alive in a microwave oven which utilises the autistic end of the light spectrum to cook you."
-DarkFNC

"Penguins are the second race to realise 2D>3D"
-Anonmare

"Paul Blart mall cops if they all had ambitions of joining the Waffen-SS"
-Anonmare

"These logs could kill a dragon much less a man"
-Armhulenn

">7 8 6
WHAT MADNESS IS THIS? POETIC ANARCHY!"
-Wyzack

"We didn't kick one goofball out only to have another one come in like a fucking revolving door"
-Kraseo

"There's a difference between fucking faggots and being a fucking faggot."
-Anonmare

"You guys splitting the 20 bucks cost to hire your ex again?"
-lntigracy

"Wew. Congrats. It's been actual years since anyone tried to make fun of me for being divorced. You caught me, I'm tilted. Here is your trophy."
-Timbrewolf

"I prefer my coffees to run dry too *snorts a line of maxwell house*"
-Super Aggro Crag

"You don't have an evil bone in your body, unless togopal comes for a sleepover"
-Bluespace

">Paying over a $1000 for a lump of silicon and plastic
Lol"
-Anonmare

"Then why did you get that boob job?"
-DrPillzRedux

"You take that back you colonial mongrel"
-Docprofsmith

"I don't care whether or not someone with an IQ 3 standard deviations below my own thinks they enjoy Wizard rounds."
-Malkraz

User avatar
cedarbridge
In-Game Admin
 
Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 12:24 am
Byond Username: Cedarbridge

Re: Cult Update Suggestions and Feedback

Postby cedarbridge » Wed Feb 01, 2017 4:44 am #250354

ShadowDimentio wrote:Making maint more sprawling and dark (why the fuck are there so many windows and lights) would help.

I really don't know how I feel about the whole idea of having more maint than actual station. That's how some of these larger maint designs really seem to work out. You end up with this huge maze of maint for assistants to go play in away from the actual station and it ends up feeling more like a derelict than a research station.

User avatar
Steelpoint
Github User
 
Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 6:37 pm
Location: The Armoury
Byond Username: Steelpoint
Github Username: Steelpoint

Re: Cult Update Suggestions and Feedback

Postby Steelpoint » Wed Feb 01, 2017 4:52 am #250358

On Maint: A large and confusing maint only benefits antagonists. Unlike a while ago where 99% of rounds were Boxstation (or meta if you were on Basil) having a large maint was easier to get since everyone would be playing the same map and learning it, now days with multiple maps on constant rotation you have many people not bothering to learn the maint layout, or memorise the insane maint room names.

On this Cult Proposal: I like the idea of a Cult Leader, the proposal seems to only give him a few abilities to help heard and command the Cult to a extent, and I like Oldmans implication of this being likely the first ever antag role that is merit based not RNG based.

Also this Cult Leader does not seem to hold abilties that are 100% demanded by the Cult to win the game, if the Cult could win without the Leader then I think the system is great.

Teamwork is OP.
Image

User avatar
ShadowDimentio
 
Joined: Thu May 08, 2014 3:15 am
Byond Username: David273

Re: Cult Update Suggestions and Feedback

Postby ShadowDimentio » Wed Feb 01, 2017 5:06 am #250360

cedarbridge wrote:
ShadowDimentio wrote:Making maint more sprawling and dark (why the fuck are there so many windows and lights) would help.

I really don't know how I feel about the whole idea of having more maint than actual station. That's how some of these larger maint designs really seem to work out. You end up with this huge maze of maint for assistants to go play in away from the actual station and it ends up feeling more like a derelict than a research station.


Well as it stands building in a department is impossible as one chucklefuck can wander into the department that you hadn't converted yet and blow your cover, and maint is only marginally better because there's only like three spots where there's enough room to set up (on Box at least).

Steelpoint wrote:On Maint: A large and confusing maint only benefits antagonists. Unlike a while ago where 99% of rounds were Boxstation (or meta if you were on Basil) having a large maint was easier to get since everyone would be playing the same map and learning it, now days with multiple maps on constant rotation you have many people not bothering to learn the maint layout, or memorise the insane maint room names.


>A large and confusing maint benefits antags

No shit Sherlock. That's why I suggested it.

>Learning all the different maints is extremely hard/impossible

Awesome. Maint should be a confusing labyrinth where bad things happen and only the grizzled veterans who know the station like the back of their hands know where "EAST INCINERATOR MAINT" is exactly.

Cult has reached a point that sometimes on Box I can find cult bases before I can even find cultists.
Spoiler:
"Clowns are different you can't trust those shifty fucks you never know what they're doing or if they're willing to eat a dayban for some cheap yuks."
-Not-Dorsidarf

"The amount of people is the amount of times the sound is played... on top of itself. And with sybil populations on the shuttle..."
-Remie Richards

"I just spent all fucking day playing fallen london and sunless sea and obsessing over how creepy the fucking dawn machine is and only just clocked now that your avatar is the fucking dawn machine. Nobody vote for this disgusting new sequence blasphemer he wants to kill the gods"
-Stickymayhem

"Drank a cocktail of orange Gatorade and mint mouthwash on accident. Pretty sure I'm going to die, I am on the verge of vomit. It was nice knowing you guys"
-PKPenguin321

"You're too late, you will have to fetch them from the top of my tower, built by zombies, slaves, zombie slaves and garitho's will to live!"
-Armhulen

"This is like being cooked alive in a microwave oven which utilises the autistic end of the light spectrum to cook you."
-DarkFNC

"Penguins are the second race to realise 2D>3D"
-Anonmare

"Paul Blart mall cops if they all had ambitions of joining the Waffen-SS"
-Anonmare

"These logs could kill a dragon much less a man"
-Armhulenn

">7 8 6
WHAT MADNESS IS THIS? POETIC ANARCHY!"
-Wyzack

"We didn't kick one goofball out only to have another one come in like a fucking revolving door"
-Kraseo

"There's a difference between fucking faggots and being a fucking faggot."
-Anonmare

"You guys splitting the 20 bucks cost to hire your ex again?"
-lntigracy

"Wew. Congrats. It's been actual years since anyone tried to make fun of me for being divorced. You caught me, I'm tilted. Here is your trophy."
-Timbrewolf

"I prefer my coffees to run dry too *snorts a line of maxwell house*"
-Super Aggro Crag

"You don't have an evil bone in your body, unless togopal comes for a sleepover"
-Bluespace

">Paying over a $1000 for a lump of silicon and plastic
Lol"
-Anonmare

"Then why did you get that boob job?"
-DrPillzRedux

"You take that back you colonial mongrel"
-Docprofsmith

"I don't care whether or not someone with an IQ 3 standard deviations below my own thinks they enjoy Wizard rounds."
-Malkraz

User avatar
cedarbridge
In-Game Admin
 
Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 12:24 am
Byond Username: Cedarbridge

Re: Cult Update Suggestions and Feedback

Postby cedarbridge » Wed Feb 01, 2017 5:28 am #250369

ShadowDimentio wrote: Maint should be a confusing labyrinth where bad things happen and only the grizzled veterans who know the station like the back of their hands know where "EAST INCINERATOR MAINT" is exactly.

Or it could be a corridor where engineers have reasonable and ordinary access to the parts of the station needed to make repairs. You know. Maintenance. Instead we get "this is a huge unfinished/abandoned chunk of the station, for some reason."

User avatar
DemonFiren
 
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2014 9:15 pm
Byond Username: DemonFiren

Re: Cult Update Suggestions and Feedback

Postby DemonFiren » Wed Feb 01, 2017 6:06 am #250379

Just like half the station after every round.
Image
Image
Image
ImageImageImageImageImage

non-lizard things:
Spoiler:
Image

User avatar
Oldman Robustin
 
Joined: Tue May 13, 2014 2:18 pm
Byond Username: ForcefulCJS

Re: Cult Update Suggestions and Feedback

Postby Oldman Robustin » Wed Feb 01, 2017 7:29 pm #250559

Cult master took longer than expected because oh right I don't know how to code.

It's nearing completion but I still haven't settled on a 2nd ability.

One big benefit for the master is that we can generally trust them with more advanced abilities, but I don't want them to feel "necessary" for the cult's success either.

One rather extreme idea I had was to allow the master to "freeze" cult magic, which would prevent the cultists from putting talismans/tomes in hand and therefore make the cult much harder to detect early on while the cult gathers materials, sets up a base, obtains access, etc.... on the other hand I want the cult to be fluid and dynamic and not just a snooze fest where the cult doesn't do anything 5ever while it tries to stack the deck with non-magic instead of just doing cult shit.
Image


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