Steelpoint wrote:From what I understand from Oldmans post, this system is meant as Security's way of remaining relevant towards the mid and end game of more longer rounds.
As he succinctly points out Security is the only major department that has no real progression system to it, Security starts at its peak and it all goes down from there, whereas all other major departments continue to build power throughout the entire round.
Its a fair cop, they don't really have a progression system at present, but in part this is because they have no objective, other then the vague one of catching the round antagonist. Making their objective "be nicer" isn't particularly engaging or interesting, so I don't think it solves this problem.
Engineering's objective is to maintain hull integrity and ensure the station has power, Science's objective is subdivided into each area (Xenobio is get lots of slimes, R&D is get levels up, Robotics is build robots and eventually mechs, Toxins... doesn't really have an objective but that's a separate argument), Medical tries to keep people alive and retrieve dead people, Service departments are largely RP-oriented but have their own mini objectives like Botany making interesting plants, Chef making exciting food, Bartender making interesting drinks etc. You'll note none of these are as vague as "don't shitsec".
If you want to give security a progression system, you first have to give them objectives that mean something and can be worked towards, whether thats something like "build a perma prison" or "deputize atleast 8 people", etc etc. This might prove unpopular however, as department objectives were a thing for a while that went away.
You may make the point that Security starting at its zenith and then falling from there is intended, but if you're objective is to retain players in Security then this ideal is simply not compatible.
The complaint I hear from people who don't want to play Sec generally doesn't have to do with equipment, more to do with having a massive target on your back at all times and being probably
the most scrutinized department in terms of bwoinks (this has decreased somewhat with admins backing off about brig timers, but its still more or less the case), not to mention being criticized no matter what you do.
Another point one may make is that Security should be reliant on other departments for their progression. But from my own personal experience of playing this game for many years, and Oldman who has even more experience under his belt, this simply does not happen on any regular schedule, I can count on one hand the amount of times I've witnessed Cargo go out of its way to offer support and items for Security without prompt, same goes for RnD and Medical. Engineering being the exception since their assistance to sec is fixing the place after a bomb goes off.
Part of the issue with Sec having inter department reliance is twofold. As stated before, they can lose access to an entire department depending on the actions of antagonists. If R&D is full of cultists then you're not getting squat out of them, and if an traitor bombs Medbay then they're not really going to do much for you.
Additionally though, you have the issue that sec by definition is a
team paranoia role. Us vs them. Any other department could be full of murderers looking to fuck you. This is what leads to things like sec storming cargo and ordering things for themselves rather then ordering them at the desk, because theres a very real possibility that cargo has been subverted and will just fuck you about.
But unlike what some may fear monger, this system seems to not aiming to replace the non-exsistant interdepartmental cooperation but to add a system to keep Security afloat during a round and as well as letting Security get access to some nice toys if they work for it. But if you're aim is to rush for premium items like x-rays, anti-stun implants and hoards of guns then you'll get better results from going to RnD, Med and Cargo, not by using this proposed system.
Okay, I have several issues with this paragraph:
a) Don't refer to criticism as fear mongering, it doesn't make you look good nor help your case.
b) Generally speaking, points based systems that are inferior to equipment gained from another department tend to get downplayed/ignored. Its not infrequent for miners to ignore the vending machine in favour of R&D, and thats with a set of unique items that are quite potent by themselves.
c) Other then unlocking cargo crates with guns for R&D, I don't see how Sec can co-operate with R&D. Compare it to the symbiotic relationship between Mining and R&D. R&D needs minerals, Miners need equipment, Miners bring minerals, R&D gives them equipment. Sec needs premium equipment involving all research fields, and at best can supply them with Combat Use levels (which is a one off) or can run errands for them fetching specific items.
This holds true for basically every department. Security has nothing to really offer in terms of co-operation, while being paranoid, constantly running around trying to respond to "; HELP ENGINEERING" radio calls and being murdered and shouting at people in deadchat because their suit sensors are on full but their corpse is sitting in a locker in genetics maint. It doesn't make for very good "inter department co-operation", more "inter department dependency"
