Romeral

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Oldman Robustin
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Romeral

Post by Oldman Robustin » #250056

25TC, 30 unit bottle. The chemical gives you a latent/undetectable zombie disease, it has no effect on your character until you die. About 90 seconds after you die, you come back as a zombie and your melee attacks will give anyone you hit the zombie disease as well. Zombies move slow (duffelbag speed) and are immune to suffocation/radiation/poison but are vulnerable to most of the other stuff that affects humans (slips, stuns, fire, brute, explosions, etc.)

My impression is that this would be fine at 20TC. Zombies are incredibly easy to kill with any kind of stun, a telescopic baton/stunprod/baton guarantee that zombies a non-threat. A taser/shotgun/egun/etc. makes anything short of a zombie horde trivial to shut down.

Because the item has an incredibly high TC cost, requires mass infection AND mass casualties, it's likely to remain a meme for the foreseeable future, especially once people learn that they can be stunned. This kind of deviates from my original vision of zombies as something that security would lack an easy answer for, but could be taken on by the average crew member with a decent melee weapon. I think another compromise would be to either make them stun resistant (simply recover from stuns more quickly) or to have stuns simply "stagger" (root) the zombie so they can't move for the duration of the "stun" but they can still retaliate in melee. Keeping slips seems acceptable as a makeshift defense for crewmembers.
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Re: Romeral

Post by imblyings » #250058

>we couldn't trust admins to not overdo zombies
>trust players to

I dunno

also it seems like this would fit high pop more than low pop
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Wyzack
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Re: Romeral

Post by Wyzack » #250062

When there was a chance of zombies being on lavaland they made it to the station a massive number of rounds and it got real unfun real fast. What has changed that will cause this to not be the case if we make them even EASIER to get onstation?
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Re: Romeral

Post by Arianya » #250064

This kind of deviates from my original vision of zombies as something that security would lack an easy answer for, but could be taken on by the average crew member with a decent melee weapon.
Even with stun immunity/resistance, why would sec not just shotgun them dead? Or harm baton them to death? These both seem like exceedingly easy answers?
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Re: Romeral

Post by onleavedontatme » #250067

It is meant to be a rare gimmick that you won't see regularly, not a reliable traitor tactic.

Maybe they're too weak without stun immunity/resistance but all the previous iterations of zombies usually wiped out the station every time.
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Re: Romeral

Post by cedarbridge » #250105

Kor wrote:It is meant to be a rare gimmick that you won't see regularly, not a reliable traitor tactic.

Maybe they're too weak without stun immunity/resistance but all the previous iterations of zombies usually wiped out the station every time.
Lets not just throw stun immunity on everything as a bandaid buff either. Hulks are already cancer enough and sentient npcs being stun immune is also a joke against anyone but security and other traitors. Removing everyone else on the station's ability to half-way fight them is tad much.
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Re: Romeral

Post by Remie Richards » #250107

The lowest this would go is 21 TC, because it has to be either "Traitors teamed up" or "Traitor dunked Traitor 2" thing, that's the idea I came up with to balance coiax's PR, and it's the one we went with.
25 may be too high, I literally plucked that number from thin air, but since it shouldn't go <= 20, I'd say the lowest is 21 (but since that's ugly lets round it to a nice 22)
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Re: Romeral

Post by ShadowDimentio » #250109

Kor wrote:It is meant to be a rare gimmick that you won't see regularly, not a reliable traitor tactic.

Maybe they're too weak without stun immunity/resistance but all the previous iterations of zombies usually wiped out the station every time.
Because they were in xenobio. And if xenobio could summon zombies they could summon effectively limitless golems to turn into free zombies, then it's just a matter of 7 zombies barreling out of sci and gangbanging everyone they see before sec can get their guns.

Set this to 20 TC, if you want zombies you have to fully commit to it and not fuck up or else you lose your round. Also who changed it so zombies can get stunned? That's dumb, bring old zombies back.
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Re: Romeral

Post by Wyzack » #250112

Except it was just as bad when they were on lavaland and did not have golems to snowball with
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Re: Romeral

Post by ShadowDimentio » #250115

Never experienced that so no comment.
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Re: Romeral

Post by Oldman Robustin » #250120

lavaland/xenobio zombies were:

-Stun/slow immune
-Moved at human run speed until they died
-Instantly zombified anyone who was crit or dead

Romerol zombies are:
- Fully vulnerable to all stuns and slows
- Slower than crew by default
- Take 90 seconds to make a dead person rise again

HUGE difference.
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Re: Romeral

Post by Wyzack » #250125

Thank you for answering my question about what has changed, i legitimately did not know.

I still think that giving something capable of derailing one of our non-team antag modes into a pseudo team antag mode is not a good idea though, regardless of how unlikely it is to snowball out of control
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Re: Romeral

Post by onleavedontatme » #250129

Oldman Robustin wrote: -Moved at human run speed until they died
They have always been slower than humans
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Re: Romeral

Post by Oldman Robustin » #250156

Kor wrote:
Oldman Robustin wrote: -Moved at human run speed until they died
They have always been slower than humans
https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/16164

#They are now speed = 2, so you can outrun them. If they catch you, you kinda deserve it. (Rule #1 Cardio)

I'm the one who made them slow Kor, zombies used to be SpeedyMcMurderMobs. They were probably slow for part/most of their lavaland era but during the xenobio era they were almost exclusively run speed.
Last edited by Oldman Robustin on Tue Jan 31, 2017 8:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Romeral

Post by onleavedontatme » #250157

Speed = 1 means 1 slowdown, which is like a human wearing a space suit. They've never been as fast as humans.
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Re: Romeral

Post by Oldman Robustin » #250159

Kor wrote:Speed = 1 means 1 slowdown, which is like a human wearing a space suit. They've never been as fast as humans.
I thought 1 was normal and 0 was turbo.

Maybe they should be moved back to 1 in that case because Romerol zombies aren't a threat to anyone right now. I can bring the zombies my victims but the zombies aren't able to kill anyone on their own, they always need 3rd party intervention, which kinda makes them a pretty pointless threat.

Aside from the more controversial proposals I think the following should be pretty straightforward:

1) The revive time is too long for zombies in their current state. Takes 2 minutes now that I timed it, that was justifiable back when zombies were strong but on top of being weak the zombies are also stunned for about 5 seconds upon reawakening. 30-60 seconds is a much more tolerable turnover and actually makes the spread of the virus feel more like an "outbreak".

2) Being killed with romerol in your system needs to a give a VERY LARGE message that you're not dead 4ever. Too many of my victims get killed by me after I've romerol'd them only to close the game and not realize they were coming back.

3) Zombies might be tolerable in their current state of balance IF catatonic zombies worked like regular hostile mobs. Might allow for some hilarious monkey--->human---->zombie memes.
Last edited by Oldman Robustin on Tue Jan 31, 2017 10:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Romeral

Post by D&B » #250161

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Re: Romeral

Post by BeeSting12 » #250187

Maybe there should be special meme uplink items that are randomized every round. Like this might show up one round and the next could be a (enter thing that could be fun unless it's every round). That way this won't be as common, but it's still obtainable.
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Re: Romeral

Post by Armhulen » #250207

CHANGE THE NAME
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Re: Romeral

Post by ShadowDimentio » #250362

BeeSting12 wrote:Maybe there should be special meme uplink items that are randomized every round. Like this might show up one round and the next could be a (enter thing that could be fun unless it's every round). That way this won't be as common, but it's still obtainable.
If we had job specific antag items we could have this for virologists or scientists.
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Re: Romeral

Post by Screemonster » #250408

ShadowDimentio wrote:
BeeSting12 wrote:Maybe there should be special meme uplink items that are randomized every round. Like this might show up one round and the next could be a (enter thing that could be fun unless it's every round). That way this won't be as common, but it's still obtainable.
If we had job specific antag items we could have this for virologists or scientists.
Or stick it in bundles if you want some rare but neat items that you don't want people grabbing every round.
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Re: Romeral

Post by XDTM » #250438

This should really be a job reward rather than in the uplink, much like xenobio has the toxin that turns you into a slime or can make spider armies. Maybe as an uranium virus symptom? That way it could spread non-manually, which would make the chaos happen more fluidly since what everyone thought was a healing virus actually made everyone a potential zombie.
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Re: Romeral

Post by Oldman Robustin » #250527

Kor I just tested speeds, 1 appears to be normal crew movement.
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Re: Romeral

Post by onleavedontatme » #250533

https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/issues/12816

If you tested locally it's because of that bug, but I adjusted the server mob config speeds to compensate for that back in 2015, so speed 1 = space suit speed for basil and sybil.
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Re: Romeral

Post by calzilla1 » #250536

BeeSting12 wrote:Maybe there should be special meme uplink items that are randomized every round. Like this might show up one round and the next could be a (enter thing that could be fun unless it's every round). That way this won't be as common, but it's still obtainable.
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Re: Romeral

Post by Oldman Robustin » #250539

Kor wrote:https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/issues/12816

If you tested locally it's because of that bug, but I adjusted the server mob config speeds to compensate for that back in 2015, so speed 1 = space suit speed for basil and sybil.
Ugh, so maybe I will set those zombies to 1 then, I want them to be outran but not so stupidly slow they're incapable of killing anything thats not already on the precipice of death.
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Re: Romeral

Post by Bombadil » #250903

Make it so if zombies eat brains they get normal movespeed for a couple minutes
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Re: Romeral

Post by kevinz000 » #250941

Honestly zombies don't belong on a space station :^)
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Re: Romeral

Post by PKPenguin321 » #251114

kevinz000 wrote:Honestly zombies don't belong on a space station :^)
https://www.google.com/#q=dead+space+game
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Re: Romeral

Post by Armhulen » #251122

PKPenguin321 wrote:
kevinz000 wrote:Honestly zombies don't belong on a space station :^)
https://www.google.com/#q=dead+space+game
>those zombies
  1. Have mutated scythe arms
  2. Run at you through vents
  3. Never stop chasing you, no communication
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Re: Romeral

Post by Oldman Robustin » #251125

SS13 is a sentient meme so I think our zombies are pretty well suited. See:
Armhulen wrote: [*]"DON'T KILL ME I'M THE CAPTAIN UGH JESUS I HATE YOU"
Perfect.

Xenos already fill the niche of dead-raising, vent-crawling, super speedy assfuckers.

Our zombies are a slow menace that induces horror through sheer numbers and momentum. Seeing zombies pour into your department and start gathering outside your door is a pretty "OH SHIT" moment.

I think my biggest issue remains the stunability of the zombies. I'm still trying to experience these new zombies (Coiax took mine, which acted like mobs, and made them far more human-like) but I just don't know if zombies can achieve their desired effect when a spray bottle full of water/lube makes you untouchable. Zombies are slow enough at "2 speed" that they might still be balanced if we took out their stun vulnerability. On the other hand I always felt like a crewmember shouldn't feel helpless in the fight. Zombies are a lot shittier when they become just another antag that you depend on security to save you from. I could make them more fragile but make them unstunnable...
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Re: Romeral

Post by Lumbermancer » #251127

How does one get 25tc?
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Re: Romeral

Post by BeeSting12 » #251133

Lumbermancer wrote:How does one get 25tc?
By buying TCs from another person's uplink and putting them in yours
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Spoiler:
OOC: Hunterh98: to be fair sloan is one of the, if not the, most robust folks on tg

DEAD: Schlomo Gaskin says, "sloan may be a faggot but he gets the job done"

DEAD: Rei Ayanami says, "YOU'RE EVERYWHERE WHERE BAD SHIT IS HAPPENING"
DEAD: Rei Ayanami says, "IT'S ALWAYS FUCKING EDWARD SLOAN"
oranges wrote:Bee sting is honestly the nicest admin, I look forward to seeing him as a headmin one day
[2020-05-21 01:21:48.923] SAY: Crippo/(Impala Chainee) "Shaggy Voice - She like... wants to get Eiffel Towered bro!!" (Brig (125, 166, 2))
hows my driving?
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Oldman Robustin
Joined: Tue May 13, 2014 2:18 pm
Byond Username: ForcefulCJS

Re: Romeral

Post by Oldman Robustin » #251242

BeeSting12 wrote:
Lumbermancer wrote:How does one get 25tc?
By buying TCs from another person's uplink and putting them in yours
Or the discount RNG.

I just scream my words in all caps on radio and try to team up. The ONLY round I've really gotten a zombie takeover was when we got 3 traitors to team up with 2 lings to create enough mayhem to zombify most of the station. Even then it was mostly a rogue AI/shocked everything/plasmafire everywhere doing the work.

Only a matter of time before some Shitler HOS throws me in perma for emphasizing certain words in my sentences near roundstart though.
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Steelpoint
Github User
Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 6:37 pm
Byond Username: Steelpoint
Github Username: Steelpoint
Location: The Armoury

Re: Romeral

Post by Steelpoint » #251244

Zombies seem to be only a threat if a large portion of the crew is infected with the virus.

Perhaps Traitors should also be given a perfume kit that disguises themselves to appear as Zombies to other Zombies, so they gain some form of immunity to attack.
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