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Remove the singularity in favour of the supermatter
Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 11:37 pm
by onleavedontatme
And have the final stage of the supermatter failure be collapsing into a stage three singularity.
The supermatter is a more interesting engine with several stages of failures and warnings rather than just "whoops the round is over."
The singulo is still the most interesting destruction to watch though, so that will still be the end stage.
I think this is probably the best compromise I can come up with between people who are frustrated with rounds frequently being cut short, and people who like the singularity.
Re: Remove the singularity in favour of the supermatter
Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 11:40 pm
by Shaps-cloud
Actually a pretty interesting idea, at least there's a level of "oh shit we have to fix this now" before it goes critical that would give engineers some sort of reason for existing past turning on the emitters. Hell, it'd even fit IC since supermatter is already incredibly compressed matter, it'd make sense that firing a bunch of energy into it irresponsibly could cause it to collapse into a black hole
Re: Remove the singularity in favour of the supermatter
Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 11:50 pm
by danno
yes lets do this fuck
Re: Remove the singularity in favour of the supermatter
Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 12:00 am
by Not-Dorsidarf
I was about to get pissy but I love the idea of the supermatter collapsing into a singularity instead of just going boom
Re: Remove the singularity in favour of the supermatter
Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 12:04 am
by oranges
As much as the singulo has been an iconic part of ss13 forever I think we do need to move to an engine that has more interesting engineering challenges and is more engaging.
The fact you can still get the singulo if you put a bit of elbow grease in is the cherry on the top with this change.
Re: Remove the singularity in favour of the supermatter
Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 12:07 am
by Qbopper
Not a bad idea for a test change IMO
Re: Remove the singularity in favour of the supermatter
Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 12:09 am
by D&B
Re: Remove the singularity in favour of the supermatter
Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 12:31 am
by BeeSting12
And if the engineers want a singularity, they can put field generators around it to contain it!
Re: Remove the singularity in favour of the supermatter
Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 12:32 am
by Shaps-cloud
Making the supermatter the only engine and then basing all powernet/engineering stuff around it, as well as thoroughly expanding on how it functions is an excellent direction to move in. The SM has infinitely more potential for expansion of mechanics than the singulo and tesla ever will
Also what beesting said, maybe, depending on the implementation I guess
Re: Remove the singularity in favour of the supermatter
Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 12:34 am
by captain sawrge
I'd be all for having SM as the main engine and expanding more upon it.
Possible different failures, such as super super low chance of /vg/'s SM cascade, some kind of event (resonance cascade like half life?) where a megafauna and/or hostile mobs start to spawn on the station, SM explosion, etc. idk
Minor events as it delaminates, localized EMPs, some people start hallucinating, maybe it causes a fire to break out somewhere, idk
Re: Remove the singularity in favour of the supermatter
Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 12:43 am
by Qbopper
Shaps wrote:Making the supermatter the only engine and then basing all powernet/engineering stuff around it, as well as thoroughly expanding on how it functions is an excellent direction to move in. The SM has infinitely more potential for expansion of mechanics than the singulo and tesla ever will
quality idea IMO, it's a lot more indepth than "tanks go in collectors, turn PA on, turn PA to 0"
Re: Remove the singularity in favour of the supermatter
Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 1:01 am
by Reece
Might give me something to do besides building a gas chamber into the engineering lobby.
Re: Remove the singularity in favour of the supermatter
Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 1:08 am
by Tokiko2
While you are doing this, could you expand the gas interaction a bit? Currently, only o2 and n2 do something special to the shard, it would be nice to have all gasses do something unique maybe. Possibly even a TEG integration to make it even more complex.
Re: Remove the singularity in favour of the supermatter
Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 1:13 am
by IcePacks
hi i'm here to derail the thread
this is a great idea but make a combustion engine possible again
Re: Remove the singularity in favour of the supermatter
Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 1:17 am
by Atlanta-Ned
Let's do it.
Re: Remove the singularity in favour of the supermatter
Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 1:18 am
by AnonymousNow
The frequency of the singularity escaping and prematurely ending rounds is frustrating, but the singularity itself is an iconic part of the SS13 experience and themes, and we absolutely cannot lose it. I'm not sure how I feel about Kor's opening suggestion; having the singularity be ready to set up and run is part of our heritage, even with the alternative power sources that we have now.
In terms of stopping it from wrecking so many rounds, it's difficult (read: impossible, if you count the people who'll complain about anything) to find a balance for stopping its frequent escape without changes being declared too hugboxy. The singularity SHOULD be dangerous; it SHOULD get free often, through neglect and sabotage. Something like an engineering channel warning beacon that needs to be set up is an idea (eg. a canary beacon that's designed to get sucked into a singularity if it grows too powerful when placed at a specific point, and send out a warning message on death, just before the singulo gets too big).
IcePacks wrote:make a combustion engine possible again
Also this.
Re: Remove the singularity in favour of the supermatter
Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 1:22 am
by onleavedontatme
Tokiko2 wrote:While you are doing this, could you expand the gas interaction a bit? Currently, only o2 and n2 do something special to the shard, it would be nice to have all gasses do something unique maybe. Possibly even a TEG integration to make it even more complex.
If we have a single engine that you can actually interact with rather than a series of redundant ones that instantly destroy everything around them I hope we can expand on it yeah
Re: Remove the singularity in favour of the supermatter
Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 1:23 am
by kevinz000
Can we atleast give the R-UST a try? It is interesting too.
It requires maintainence near constantly unless you're good and ruins things if you fuck it up but not to an extent where it's an instant round over.
Re: Remove the singularity in favour of the supermatter
Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 1:25 am
by Wyzack
I cannot believe there has not been a single assblasted i hate change buttbaby rampage in this thread yet. This is a fantastic idea make it happen
Re: Remove the singularity in favour of the supermatter
Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 1:36 am
by Atlanta-Ned
Wait, nope, don't do this. Delaminations aren't tracked in the DB so we don't have the numbers to back this up. Sorry team.
Re: Remove the singularity in favour of the supermatter
Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 1:45 am
by Saegrimr
Tokiko2 wrote:While you are doing this, could you expand the gas interaction a bit? Currently, only o2 and n2 do something special to the shard, it would be nice to have all gasses do something unique maybe. Possibly even a TEG integration to make it even more complex.
This.
Never Forgetti
Re: Remove the singularity in favour of the supermatter
Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 1:46 am
by Qbopper
Wyzack wrote:I cannot believe there has not been a single assblasted i hate change buttbaby rampage in this thread yet. This is a fantastic idea make it happen
honestly hard to believe and the one negative post was pretty reasonable
Re: Remove the singularity in favour of the supermatter
Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 1:47 am
by onleavedontatme
Saegrimr wrote:Tokiko2 wrote:While you are doing this, could you expand the gas interaction a bit? Currently, only o2 and n2 do something special to the shard, it would be nice to have all gasses do something unique maybe. Possibly even a TEG integration to make it even more complex.
This.
Never Forgetti
rare player saeg collected
Re: Remove the singularity in favour of the supermatter
Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 1:48 am
by captain sawrge
AnonymousNow wrote:The frequency of the singularity escaping and prematurely ending rounds is frustrating, but the singularity itself is an iconic part of the SS13 experience and themes, and we absolutely cannot lose it. I'm not sure how I feel about Kor's opening suggestion; having the singularity be ready to set up and run is part of our heritage, even with the alternative power sources that we have now.
>This thing is terrible and awful and causes so many problems
>BUT ITS NOSTALGIC AND SYMBOLIC WE HAVE TO KEEP IT IN
ok.
Re: Remove the singularity in favour of the supermatter
Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 1:58 am
by IcePacks
Atlanta-Ned wrote:Wait, nope, don't do this. Delaminations aren't tracked in the DB so we don't have the numbers to back this up. Sorry team.
you can still make combustion engines happen tho right
Re: Remove the singularity in favour of the supermatter
Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 2:08 am
by Luke Cox
>No singularity in SS13
HERSEY
Re: Remove the singularity in favour of the supermatter
Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 2:12 am
by Cobby
Why do we NEED a dangerous engine roundstart thooooo....
I want a Low power engine [solars] and have to expand on it by BUILDING. The elders have already built the best engine-oriented building, The Antimatter.
Re: Remove the singularity in favour of the supermatter
Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 2:31 am
by IcePacks
hey gang if you can read beyond the topic of the thread you'll know that we can't implement this right now
also if you can read at least the first post you'd know that it wasn't a suggestion to remove it you mong
Re: Remove the singularity in favour of the supermatter
Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 3:07 am
by ShadowDimentio
>Title is "remove the singularity in favour of the supermatter"
>It's n-not about removing the singu guys, it's just replacing it until it explodes, then there's a singu
F- thread topic, C- idea.
I hate the idea of removing the singu in such a way, or removing it at all, but changing the supermatter shard to turn into a singu in lieu of just exploding is a perfectly good idea. Hell, I'd be down for adding the supermatter as an option for engineering at roundstart (spawn a deactivated shard in SS, has to be shot with the projector a few times until it activates), just DON'T REMOVE THE SINGU.
Re: Remove the singularity in favour of the supermatter
Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 3:14 am
by captain sawrge
ShadowDimentio wrote:>Title is "remove the singularity in favour of the supermatter"
>It's n-not about removing the singu guys, it's just replacing it until it explodes, then there's a singu
F- thread topic, C- idea.
I hate the idea of removing the singu in such a way, or removing it at all, but changing the supermatter shard to turn into a singu in lieu of just exploding is a perfectly good idea. Hell, I'd be down for adding the supermatter as an option for engineering at roundstart (spawn a deactivated shard in SS, has to be shot with the projector a few times until it activates), just DON'T REMOVE THE SINGU.
Why not? It's incredibly simple to the point of being shallow, its destructive capacity isn't so much fun as it is just frustrating, and it leaves way less open for additions to its mechanics.
Re: Remove the singularity in favour of the supermatter
Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 3:20 am
by Anonmare
I'd be down with that tbh
I like the idea of the SM doing fucked up things if it starts getting unstable, like:
Random bursts of EMPs in various areas
Machines exploding near the critical point
Hallucinations for anyone without protection
Rad spikes that get more frequent/intense as the SMgets hotter
A chance of a half-life style reasonable cascade, it'd be functionally identical to a portal storm
Perhaps the possibility of delamination? Maybe from a singularity eating another shard, so you have a supercharged singularity AND bluespace leaking in to deal with
It'd be appropriately round devastating but you have a chance against it.
Re: Remove the singularity in favour of the supermatter
Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 3:20 am
by oranges
Re: Remove the singularity in favour of the supermatter
Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 3:34 am
by ShadowDimentio
captain sawrge wrote:ShadowDimentio wrote:>Title is "remove the singularity in favour of the supermatter"
>It's n-not about removing the singu guys, it's just replacing it until it explodes, then there's a singu
F- thread topic, C- idea.
I hate the idea of removing the singu in such a way, or removing it at all, but changing the supermatter shard to turn into a singu in lieu of just exploding is a perfectly good idea. Hell, I'd be down for adding the supermatter as an option for engineering at roundstart (spawn a deactivated shard in SS, has to be shot with the projector a few times until it activates), just DON'T REMOVE THE SINGU.
Why not? It's incredibly simple to the point of being shallow, its destructive capacity isn't so much fun as it is just frustrating, and it leaves way less open for additions to its mechanics.
What are you even talking about? The point of the singu wasn't to be an incredibly in-depth machine, it's a black hole in a box that the crew get all their power from somehow. That's the joke, it's a spectacle in how absurdly impractical and stupid it is, and how whenever it escapes it nearly always destroys the station. It's the perfect engine for a ramshackle deathtrap like SS13.
Also the singu still existing doesn't "limit additions to its mechanics" you dumbass, you can add another option to engineering without turning around and burning down the other options that plenty of people have gotten fond of over the years for whatever reason. Improve, don't remove.
Re: Remove the singularity in favour of the supermatter
Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 3:51 am
by Luke Cox
What if we kept singulo/tesla but completely reworked containment and power collection to require constant maintenance?
Re: Remove the singularity in favour of the supermatter
Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 3:53 am
by onleavedontatme
What if instead we did the thing that takes literally 3 lines of code and does the exact same thing with the same end result of containment failure.
Re: Remove the singularity in favour of the supermatter
Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 3:54 am
by Luke Cox
Because it's fucking fun. Every department should have round enders imo.
Re: Remove the singularity in favour of the supermatter
Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 3:55 am
by captain sawrge
Luke Cox wrote:Because it's fucking fun. Every department should have round enders imo.
No it isn't
Re: Remove the singularity in favour of the supermatter
Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 3:57 am
by Luke Cox
Depending on how containment would be reworked, we could easily add multiple stages of failure to the singularity. If you really want singulo to be the end-stage engine, you're just stalling the problem with this idea.
Re: Remove the singularity in favour of the supermatter
Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 3:57 am
by Wyzack
captain sawrge wrote:Luke Cox wrote:Because it's fucking fun. Every department should have round enders imo.
No it isn't
and no they shouldnt
Re: Remove the singularity in favour of the supermatter
Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 4:01 am
by ShadowDimentio
Luke Cox wrote:What if we kept singulo/tesla but completely reworked containment and power collection to require constant maintenance?
Making engi a more involved process would be completely good in my book. A good few steps would be to give engi a use for all their power like a laser that can mine/destroy stuff/sell energy, make having huge amounts of energy in the system dangerous by porting goon overcharging where APCs send out bolts of lightning and doors EXPLODE if you touch them, and make the engine equipment degrade/require refueling if used above a certain level.
Re: Remove the singularity in favour of the supermatter
Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 4:03 am
by ShadowDimentio
Luke Cox wrote:Because it's fucking fun. Every department should have round enders imo.
They already do. Medbay has viruses, cargo has the BSA/supermatter, botany has kudzu, science has bombs, engi has the engine.
The only one that doesn't is sec, and they're never antag.
Re: Remove the singularity in favour of the supermatter
Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 4:04 am
by Luke Cox
The APC thing might be a little extreme. What I want is for an engineer or two to have to actually man the engine room and perform routine maintenance.
Re: Remove the singularity in favour of the supermatter
Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 4:12 am
by ShadowDimentio
Luke Cox wrote:The APC thing might be a little extreme. What I want is for an engineer or two to have to actually man the engine room and perform routine maintenance.
It incentivizes not just releasing the engine as antag by offering a different, potentially better alternative.
4D chess, baby.
Re: Remove the singularity in favour of the supermatter
Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 4:13 am
by confused rock
But what happens to supermatter singularities?
Re: Remove the singularity in favour of the supermatter
Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 4:51 am
by onleavedontatme
you're just stalling the problem
But the problem is that it happens too quickly, not that it happens at all. Rounds have to end eventually, but it'd be nice if they took longer than 15 minutes to do so.
Re: Remove the singularity in favour of the supermatter
Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 5:11 am
by imblyings
collapsing into a singularity is a genius compromise
for singularity supporters, it just means a longer set up time.
Re: Remove the singularity in favour of the supermatter
Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 5:14 am
by Slignerd
In favor of it if supermatter singularities get to grow to supermatter-charged stage when loose
Re: Remove the singularity in favour of the supermatter
Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 5:23 am
by Qbopper
Luke Cox wrote:Because it's fucking fun. Every department should have round enders imo.
I know this is personal opinion but this is a fucking incredible quote
I don't think ive ever disagreed more with a sentence
Re: Remove the singularity in favour of the supermatter
Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 5:44 am
by Luke Cox
It's mostly because I feel like we're moving away from lethality. I like causing mass carnage as an antag, and I like dealing with it as a non-antag.
Re: Remove the singularity in favour of the supermatter
Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 6:33 am
by AnonymousNow
Sligneris wrote:In favor of it if supermatter singularities get to grow to supermatter-charged stage when loose
Or have it so that absorbing a second shard makes them into a supermatter-charged singulo.
