War ops is entirely pointless when shotguns exist

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War ops is entirely pointless when shotguns exist

Post by Bombadil » #261115

>Declare war
>Crew sells everything on the station and orders so many shotguns every grayshit has 2 shotguns inhand and one on their back
>shielded hardsuits mean nothing against 5 pellets negating your shield
>They have so many weapons and so much ammo its pointless

Why the fuck is recoil not a thing for shotguns?



War is literally the worst thing operatives can do and other ops are at the mercy of their retarded team leader. Every op being in a mauler wouldn't have any hope against the shotgun toting assistant hoards.


In other words...

War... war has changed.
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Re: War ops is entirely pointless when shotguns exist

Post by XDTM » #261125

Turns out you can't buy immunity from everything! Hit from long range or try bombs or hit-and-run tactics.
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Re: War ops is entirely pointless when shotguns exist

Post by cedarbridge » #261126

OPs are still forgetting that war or no war their objective is still always "get that fukkin disk." I know they don't know this because every op, without fail, will go to the 4 winds on their own, get assblasted and then whine in deadchat about how bad every other op is. None of these ops will ever approach the captain or even glance at their pinpointers. There's crew with guns you have to fight and that's more important than getting the mission done, for some reason.

Stop trying to brawl a 50+ crew station with 5 dudes and start operating.
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Re: War ops is entirely pointless when shotguns exist

Post by CPTANT » #261154

I think defeating war ops is currently a bit too easy.

Perhaps lowering the delay between the war decleration and the ops arriving on the station a bit would help?
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Re: War ops is entirely pointless when shotguns exist

Post by Oldman Robustin » #261262

Warops are still scary as fuck, they just need to be smart.

I would advise getting elite hardsuits over shielded ones and just pack adrenals for the occasional stun.

Elite Suit = 60% bullet protection

Shielded Suit = 15% bullet protection

With syndie medborgs only costing 25 and having a pretty robust kit, its absolutely criminal if you don't bring at least 2 along with an assault borg. I cant stress how important it is to get extra player-controlled teammates at a low cost. I struggle to think of reasons for people to take reinforcements over another medborg. Ops should also avoid point sinks like the LMG and just focus on tried and true tactics.

I hate combat shotguns still but of all the people who can complain about them, I think warops have the least compelling argument.
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Re: War ops is entirely pointless when shotguns exist

Post by Steelpoint » #261266

Shielded Hardsuit is a new player trap, I'm honestly half tempted to remove it, though it has a viable usage in non-War Ops scenarios.

War Ops do need to play the objective, but they should take advantage of their expanded arsenal to do so.

Just because you now can buy a lot more expensive guns, doesn't mean you can get away with running in solo.
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Re: War ops is entirely pointless when shotguns exist

Post by calzilla1 » #261268

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Re: War ops is entirely pointless when shotguns exist

Post by CPTANT » #261286

Shielded suits useless?

LMAO, those things allow you to kite indefinitely.
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Re: War ops is entirely pointless when shotguns exist

Post by onleavedontatme » #261287

Cargo being able to order unlimited shotguns is pretty stupid though.
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Re: War ops is entirely pointless when shotguns exist

Post by lzimann » #261289

Kor wrote:Cargo being able to order unlimited shotguns is pretty stupid though.
Especially when shotguns are pretty much the best weapon available in the game(that you can get normally in a round).
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Re: War ops is entirely pointless when shotguns exist

Post by XDTM » #261292

And also the most used excuse for keeping double eswords
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Re: War ops is entirely pointless when shotguns exist

Post by leibniz » #261298

XDTM wrote:And also the most used excuse for keeping double eswords
Are they good against ballistics?
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Re: War ops is entirely pointless when shotguns exist

Post by D&B » #261300

How about being able to buy BSA strikes on station areas for a modest cost.

You get the option between cargo, RnD, Medbay and Bridge. Where it hits is random, but contained between those areas.
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Re: War ops is entirely pointless when shotguns exist

Post by Saegrimr » #261310

D&B wrote:How about being able to buy BSA strikes on station areas for a modest cost.

You get the option between cargo, RnD, Medbay and Bridge. Where it hits is random, but contained between those areas.
You know or send one guy in the Ops drop pod immediately into cargo, drop a bomb onto the other console, then escape into space to get picked up while the rest of the team is still arming.
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Re: War ops is entirely pointless when shotguns exist

Post by Cobby » #261312

Kor wrote:Cargo being able to order unlimited shotguns is pretty stupid though.
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Re: War ops is entirely pointless when shotguns exist

Post by DemonFiren » #261313

Can't we go back to the glory days of communism?
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Re: War ops is entirely pointless when shotguns exist

Post by onleavedontatme » #261321

Saegrimr wrote:
D&B wrote:How about being able to buy BSA strikes on station areas for a modest cost.

You get the option between cargo, RnD, Medbay and Bridge. Where it hits is random, but contained between those areas.
You know or send one guy in the Ops drop pod immediately into cargo, drop a bomb onto the other console, then escape into space to get picked up while the rest of the team is still arming.
You can't send the pod until 20 minutes.
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Re: War ops is entirely pointless when shotguns exist

Post by Gun Hog » #261325

What if War Ops added a few more team members for free, scaled by station pop? They would be full members with their own uplinks like the default 5.
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Re: War ops is entirely pointless when shotguns exist

Post by Bombadil » #261331

How about a tc purchase that hijacks all combat shotgun purchases and redirects them to the operatives?

Haha

Or in all seriousness tc purchase to have a syndie crew hijack the cargo shuttle for like 5-10 minutes
Last edited by Bombadil on Mon Feb 27, 2017 7:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: War ops is entirely pointless when shotguns exist

Post by Bombadil » #261332

Saegrimr wrote:
D&B wrote:How about being able to buy BSA strikes on station areas for a modest cost.

You get the option between cargo, RnD, Medbay and Bridge. Where it hits is random, but contained between those areas.
You know or send one guy in the Ops drop pod immediately into cargo, drop a bomb onto the other console, then escape into space to get picked up while the rest of the team is still arming.

Can't do that starfox gotta wait 20 minutes to launch the ship
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Re: War ops is entirely pointless when shotguns exist

Post by Saegrimr » #261341

Bombadil wrote:
Saegrimr wrote:
D&B wrote:How about being able to buy BSA strikes on station areas for a modest cost.

You get the option between cargo, RnD, Medbay and Bridge. Where it hits is random, but contained between those areas.
You know or send one guy in the Ops drop pod immediately into cargo, drop a bomb onto the other console, then escape into space to get picked up while the rest of the team is still arming.

Can't do that starfox gotta wait 20 minutes to launch the ship
Wait seriously? Including the pod? Is that a War Ops only thing?
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Re: War ops is entirely pointless when shotguns exist

Post by XDTM » #261345

Add a special item that allows ops to board the cargo ship and invade from cargo
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Re: War ops is entirely pointless when shotguns exist

Post by cedarbridge » #261346

Saegrimr wrote:
Bombadil wrote:
Saegrimr wrote:
D&B wrote:How about being able to buy BSA strikes on station areas for a modest cost.

You get the option between cargo, RnD, Medbay and Bridge. Where it hits is random, but contained between those areas.
You know or send one guy in the Ops drop pod immediately into cargo, drop a bomb onto the other console, then escape into space to get picked up while the rest of the team is still arming.

Can't do that starfox gotta wait 20 minutes to launch the ship
Wait seriously? Including the pod? Is that a War Ops only thing?
Gotta make the OPs wait so the crew has 20 minutes to rush mechs and cargo before they can arrive. Its not fair unless every assistant is carrying a dozen explosive lances.
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Re: War ops is entirely pointless when shotguns exist

Post by Wyzack » #261349

Why not just trial removing the launch restriction? The station will still have a heads up the ops are coming which is pretty huge in and of itself
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Re: War ops is entirely pointless when shotguns exist

Post by InsaneHyena » #261353

Wait, wait, wait. Hold up. Hear me out. Hold up.
Maybe we could just
You know
Not declare war
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Re: War ops is entirely pointless when shotguns exist

Post by cedarbridge » #261355

Wyzack wrote:Why not just trial removing the launch restriction? The station will still have a heads up the ops are coming which is pretty huge in and of itself
That's what I was thinking. I don't know that the station really needs 20 minutes to churn out the mechs and shit to match the ops when they already out manpower them.
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Re: War ops is entirely pointless when shotguns exist

Post by danno » #261357

Yeah
I think either trial removing the launch restriction entirely or lowering it drastically
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Re: War ops is entirely pointless when shotguns exist

Post by Wyzack » #261361

Hearing that the ops are coming still gives you a chance to put the disk into a cheese wheel and put that cheese wheel into a backpack full of other cheese wheels before fortifying the captain with the whole crew around him
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Re: War ops is entirely pointless when shotguns exist

Post by IcePacks » #261369

shields suck, buy elite
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Re: War ops is entirely pointless when shotguns exist

Post by lzimann » #261370

Wyzack wrote:Hearing that the ops are coming still gives you a chance to put the disk into a cheese wheel and put that cheese wheel into a backpack full of other cheese wheels before fortifying the captain with the whole crew around him
Don't forget to deepfry it every step for maximum protection.
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Re: War ops is entirely pointless when shotguns exist

Post by cedarbridge » #261380

lzimann wrote:
Wyzack wrote:Hearing that the ops are coming still gives you a chance to put the disk into a cheese wheel and put that cheese wheel into a backpack full of other cheese wheels before fortifying the captain with the whole crew around him
Don't forget to deepfry it every step for maximum protection.
We just said we're planning on reducing the timer.
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Re: War ops is entirely pointless when shotguns exist

Post by ShadowDimentio » #261381

I have yet to lose as awperative, the SMG after you buy an ammo bag is incredibly effective. If you keep getting meatshot by chucklefucks with shotguns follow these tips:

1: Shoot them
2: Rush the disk faster
3: Git gud
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Re: War ops is entirely pointless when shotguns exist

Post by oranges » #261490

What did nukies expect? if you declare warops on a station with more than 30 pop you will lose no matter what weapons they have
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Re: War ops is entirely pointless when shotguns exist

Post by Doctor Pork » #261497

ha. is this about the round last night?

because i was the QM, sorry mining and I got shit done
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Re: War ops is entirely pointless when shotguns exist

Post by InsaneHyena » #261501

Doctor Pork wrote:ha. is this about the round last night?

because i was the QM, sorry mining and I got shit done
No, this is about every round with war ops. War ops always lose. They are outnumbered and outgeared.
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Re: War ops is entirely pointless when shotguns exist

Post by Doctor Pork » #261509

InsaneHyena wrote:
Doctor Pork wrote:ha. is this about the round last night?

because i was the QM, sorry mining and I got shit done
No, this is about every round with war ops. War ops always lose. They are outnumbered and outgeared.
i mean yeah, thats the tradeoff
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Re: War ops is entirely pointless when shotguns exist

Post by Incomptinence » #261514

Maybe the pay off for war declaration is just too small?
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Re: War ops is entirely pointless when shotguns exist

Post by ShadowDimentio » #261515

>Outnumbered and outgeared

Outnumbered I'll give you but I once tore through five of the crew's most robust as war awp without taking a hit, awp gear is infinitely better than the stuff the crew can scrape together, you just have to get good.
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Re: War ops is entirely pointless when shotguns exist

Post by Jacough » #261516

D&B wrote:How about being able to buy BSA strikes on station areas for a modest cost.

You get the option between cargo, RnD, Medbay and Bridge. Where it hits is random, but contained between those areas.
I posted an idea a while back for alternative ships the ops could order, one of them was a battle cruiser that would have a Bluespace mortar that would operate on the same math shit telescience uses. Basically an op could coordinate with another op on the ship to designate targets and using the magical powers of math shell the shit out of the area.
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Re: War ops is entirely pointless when shotguns exist

Post by Iatots » #261569

Why not have deployable beacons for arty strikes a la CM?
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Re: War ops is entirely pointless when shotguns exist

Post by Oldman Robustin » #261602

Incomptinence wrote:Maybe the pay off for war declaration is just too small?
Nope. Unless one person wastes a bunch of the group's points most warops are still sitting there just blowing TC's on silly stuff because there's a limit to how robust you can get from nukeop gear.

Given that we're regularly seeing highpop numbers that weren't possible a couple years ago, I think that scaling the ops up to 6 or even 7 makes sense though.
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Re: War ops is entirely pointless when shotguns exist

Post by Incomptinence » #262028

telecrystals can be exchanged for borgs and operatives!
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Re: War ops is entirely pointless when shotguns exist

Post by Remie Richards » #262040

Could include a cargo-blockade in the declaration, make it not possible to buy new shotguns (or new anything), if you're declaring war on something you don't want it to get more resources/equipment.
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Re: War ops is entirely pointless when shotguns exist

Post by cedarbridge » #262043

Remie Richards wrote:Could include a cargo-blockade in the declaration, make it not possible to buy new shotguns (or new anything), if you're declaring war on something you don't want it to get more resources/equipment.
That's pretty solid.
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Re: War ops is entirely pointless when shotguns exist

Post by Cobby » #262101

I thought war ops was just "lol time to TDM", hence why no one wins because the ability to shoot 'just one more assistant' is too tempting than actually playing the objective.
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Re: War ops is entirely pointless when shotguns exist

Post by ShadowDimentio » #262181

Remie Richards wrote:Could include a cargo-blockade in the declaration, make it not possible to buy new shotguns (or new anything), if you're declaring war on something you don't want it to get more resources/equipment.
I fail to see how forcing the crew to bank their entire loadout on R&D being done and miners showing up improves the game. Nukers get a fuckload of equipment, the crew has 20 minutes to pray that the miners work fast? Not very fun.
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Re: War ops is entirely pointless when shotguns exist

Post by cedarbridge » #262187

ShadowDimentio wrote:
Remie Richards wrote:Could include a cargo-blockade in the declaration, make it not possible to buy new shotguns (or new anything), if you're declaring war on something you don't want it to get more resources/equipment.
I fail to see how forcing the crew to bank their entire loadout on R&D being done and miners showing up improves the game. Nukers get a fuckload of equipment, the crew has 20 minutes to pray that the miners work fast? Not very fun.
Implying ops don't get swarmed by 30 assistants with explosive lances anyway.
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Re: War ops is entirely pointless when shotguns exist

Post by ShadowDimentio » #262234

I had that happen once, it was hilarious and nearly killed me.

Still nuked the station though.
Spoiler:
"Clowns are different you can't trust those shifty fucks you never know what they're doing or if they're willing to eat a dayban for some cheap yuks."
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"The amount of people is the amount of times the sound is played... on top of itself. And with sybil populations on the shuttle..."
-Remie Richards

"I just spent all fucking day playing fallen london and sunless sea and obsessing over how creepy the fucking dawn machine is and only just clocked now that your avatar is the fucking dawn machine. Nobody vote for this disgusting new sequence blasphemer he wants to kill the gods"
-Stickymayhem

"Drank a cocktail of orange Gatorade and mint mouthwash on accident. Pretty sure I'm going to die, I am on the verge of vomit. It was nice knowing you guys"
-PKPenguin321

"You're too late, you will have to fetch them from the top of my tower, built by zombies, slaves, zombie slaves and garitho's will to live!"
-Armhulen

"This is like being cooked alive in a microwave oven which utilises the autistic end of the light spectrum to cook you."
-DarkFNC

"Penguins are the second race to realise 2D>3D"
-Anonmare

"Paul Blart mall cops if they all had ambitions of joining the Waffen-SS"
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"These logs could kill a dragon much less a man"
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">7 8 6
WHAT MADNESS IS THIS? POETIC ANARCHY!"
-Wyzack

"We didn't kick one goofball out only to have another one come in like a fucking revolving door"
-Kraseo

"There's a difference between fucking faggots and being a fucking faggot."
-Anonmare

"You guys splitting the 20 bucks cost to hire your ex again?"
-lntigracy

"Wew. Congrats. It's been actual years since anyone tried to make fun of me for being divorced. You caught me, I'm tilted. Here is your trophy."
-Timbrewolf

"I prefer my coffees to run dry too *snorts a line of maxwell house*"
-Super Aggro Crag

"You don't have an evil bone in your body, unless togopal comes for a sleepover"
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">Paying over a $1000 for a lump of silicon and plastic
Lol"
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"Then why did you get that boob job?"
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Re: War ops is entirely pointless when shotguns exist

Post by oranges » #262577

Shotguns need an actual damage nerf on the pellets anyway.

3 shots from one-two tiles away will down a fully shielded healthed nukeop
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Re: War ops is entirely pointless when shotguns exist

Post by Steelpoint » #262579

Just introduce scaling damage from a shotgun blast.

Make it that pellets that spread out start with maximum damage within two tiles of firing, and they quickly scale down in damage so at five tiles your dealing very minimal damage.

That or make shotguns much harder and expensive to get access to. I don't mind there being strong weapons on station, only so long as access to them is restricted.

Reminds me of how Goon lasers can two shot crit/kill unarmoured people.
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