With Metacide gone I'd support this becoming the new map for Basil (Badger). There's going to be tons of complaining if it's put on Sibyl but on Basil (Badger) it'll both NOT be Box while also tempting some people to come try it out.
After a round, there's only a couple of immediate things I noticed:
* There aren't any sinks in botany. Ideally, there'd be at least TWO.
* The ore redemption machine only seems to recognize ore delivered to the top of it, and spits ore out on the bottom of it. Currently, you have to break windows in order to use it.
* Is there any way we can make the power areas on the console and a Power-ON cart show up with names? If you're scanning area power, you just have to scroll through a list of identical named areas and hope you click the right one.
Other than that, I'm liking the way this is looking. It seems like it might be really easy to sabotage power for outside areas, but not to release the singulo. Dunno how that'll work out in more aggressive/populated play. Also, it seems like sometimes the SMES in various maint areas don't like recognizing that they're receiving power? The color coded wiring is GREAT, though.
Just two small issues, from a few minutes of playing. Firstly, the flashes in Robotics can't be stuffed into cyborg heads (similar issue was on Box for a while, something about paths). Secondly, though nobody probably cares about this, the hallways are named all wrong; the Bridge is pointing east, so that hallway would be the Fore hallway, the hallway leading to escape would be Starboard, and so on.
The gravity gen makes no sense on the map, considering you aren't effected by it being on or off while outside the station. I know this is probably isn't controllable by a mapper, but its just a little peeve about it. Other then whats been said already, 10/10 map.
MMMiracles wrote:The gravity gen makes no sense on the map, considering you aren't effected by it being on or off while outside the station. I know this is probably isn't controllable by a mapper, but its just a little peeve about it. Other then whats been said already, 10/10 map.
>Taking what I said IC and posting it as feedback before I could.
Thanks everyone for the feedback, the following issues have been fixes in version 6.
Mindustry wrote:The circled conveyer belt is backwards, no metal can get into the stacker.
BangingDonk wrote:* There aren't any sinks in botany. Ideally, there'd be at least TWO.
* The ore redemption machine only seems to recognize ore delivered to the top of it, and spits ore out on the bottom of it. Currently, you have to break windows in order to use it.
Braincake wrote:Firstly, the flashes in Robotics can't be stuffed into cyborg heads (similar issue was on Box for a while, something about paths).
fleure wrote:Just a little thing in the fitness room:
Aleph wrote:EDIT: Also a bug, medbay is missing it's wardrobe lockers.
Braincake wrote:Secondly, though nobody probably cares about this, the hallways are named all wrong; the Bridge is pointing east, so that hallway would be the Fore hallway, the hallway leading to escape would be Starboard, and so on.
Yeah I know, this was a gameplay vs realism decision to make orienteering more simplistic. Instead of having people relearn Port and Starboard as north and south just for this map I went with what would be more familiar and intuitive to players.
BangingDonk wrote:* Is there any way we can make the power areas on the console and a Power-ON cart show up with names? If you're scanning area power, you just have to scroll through a list of identical named areas and hope you click the right one.
Not without rewriting bits of the computer's code just and i'd prefer not to do so without the map being part of a codebase.
BangingDonk wrote:Other than that, I'm liking the way this is looking. It seems like it might be really easy to sabotage power for outside areas, but not to release the singulo. Dunno how that'll work out in more aggressive/populated play.
Because the singularity is much more dangerous, it's harder to sabotage. Since this also makes it harder to directly sabotage the power to the station, it's made easier to sabotage power to areas (although you can still sabotage all power without going into engineering).
BangingDonk wrote:Also, it seems like sometimes the SMES in various maint areas don't like recognizing that they're receiving power?
Which ones?
MMMiracles wrote:The gravity gen makes no sense on the map, considering you aren't effected by it being on or off while outside the station. I know this is probably isn't controllable by a mapper, but its just a little peeve about it.
I'm not sure what exactly you mean here, from my testing the grav gen works when you're on the asteroid but not in space i.e. as it should. What did you encounter?
I can't immediately remember which of the SMES were giving me grief when I was an engineer. That said, power and atmos are kind of voodoo sciences to me, and it might have just needed some time to trickle down into the units. I haven't seen other engineers having issues with that.
There MIGHT have been folks talking about how the containment field is potentially set up oddly or incorrectly at round start? Again, I don't know much about how that's working out.
OH SHIT, I remembered something else that's just a massive irritation so far. The button that you can supposedly use to exit cryotubes without access isn't access-unlocked. It's presumably still triggered to unlock for only Medbay, so you still get people asking to get let out of the cryo-room.
I believe that the escape shuttle doesn't have the proper access restrictions. Also Robotics needs flashes for its cyborgs. The ones they start with don't work for some reason.
I remember when this map was first trials, it's got some neat shit, but also some things i dislike.
Visually, the medbay looks fantastic, practically however, it's got issues. the foyer is so wide, that if you try drag someone in, directly towards cryo/sleepers, you won't even see them from chemistry. As a chemist, I let in (and heal) far more people then actual doctors. In the ideal world of course, there would be a doctor at the desk. In reality, you're going to be sitting at the door asking over comms for it to open.
The west part of the medbay corridor has 2 tile wide parts. You wouldn't think that would be a serious issue, but fuck, I remember so many times where it just got utterly traffic jammed to shit there.
A lot of the medical supplies are not in med storage, but readily accessible from the medcorridor. Fuckers can and do steal this shit, which is annoying as hell.
The sleepers are further from the entrance then the cryo tubes. A small thing, but is quite noticable, in terms of how often you'll have to drag some pleb past cryo to the sleepers, when the sleepers should be closer to begin with.
I don't know if this has been fixed, but the last time this map was live, the chef had no way to access the morgue, as he couldn't access maint.
And just looking on basil now, it appears (unless someone manually removed them in round for some reason) that the r-glass panels in the genetics monkey pen (and possibly other places) are missing.
Maint also is a bit barren. It has loads of 2 wide corridors, but there's nothing in them. On box and meta, it's lots of 1 wide corridors (it is maint after all), and the wider areas are cluttered with stuff, which IMO looks nicer/more mainty.
There is a DISTURBING lack of a maint bar, or a good spot for one. The SW maint room is alright, but it has a lack of windows to space, which is a shame.
None of the service jobs have a maint door to their work places, which is bad for various reasons (mainly antag related). And yeah, botany not having sinks means you run out of water really fast.
Tcomms is a little hard to bomb, in that you either have to mine through rock to get near the apc (which is an issue for ops) or go through the front door, which is on a main corridor.
I personally don't like the open plan dining area, mainly because people just run through it all the time. Usually the bar is an island of (relative) calm.
A lot of rooms/areas are unneccesarily large, while a couple are too small. I probably have more to add, but, sleepy time. Overall though, the map is pretty cool, but I don't think it's near finished yet.
Edit: So I got alium on basil because random event (I managed to turn literally the entire server pop into aliums, we had to restart vote to end it), and I noticed that the vents are divided into sections. This means for vent crawling, you are extremely limited on where you can crawl, from a given place.
Brig cells are useless; they can be opened from the inside, without any access.
It sounds like a really bad plan to put new prisoners to perma while it is occupied. Also, fire extinguisher allows them to break those windows every single time.
There should be more replacement lights boxes around in maint, I've spent 6 minutes looking for one and found none.
Gateway has no way to open the shutters.
Bridge dorms far left wall isn't visible on cameras, so the AI can't interact with that APC or see if the wall is intact.
Warden can't access prison medical. I have heard it is an execution room? Even so the warden's duty is to guard the brig so they have to check it isn't filled with aliens or something good that it lacks a camera though. Also maybe evidence room should be a little more insulated, not heave but maybe located deeper in the brig so it isn't 1 regular wall in maint away from hemorrhaging illicit contraband.
I have to say there's a major flaw in the the R-Walls at the bridge. The "South" or lower corridor leading to the main bridge doesn't have R-Wall's on its south side. This means the blast doors, when triggered, can be easily got around by removing one normal wall in the court room (which is public access).
alphaBeta wrote:Brig cells are useless; they can be opened from the inside, without any access.
It sounds like a really bad plan to put new prisoners to perma while it is occupied. Also, fire extinguisher allows them to break those windows every single time.
Perma needs a proper re-design. Only having 2 usable cells and allowing people to easily break out of the gluag by pickaxing the windows. Also as you say the only real reasonable thing to do is to bolt perma prisoners in those tiny cells as to risk having them run about whilst you bring in a new prisoner is just plane risky or stupid (as I found out yesterday as the warden).
Infact having a separate entrance/exit to the gluag mining part would make much more sense.
Incomptinence wrote:Warden can't access prison medical. I have heard it is an execution room? Even so the warden's duty is to guard the brig so they have to check it isn't filled with aliens or something good that it lacks a camera though. Also maybe evidence room should be a little more insulated, not heave but maybe located deeper in the brig so it isn't 1 regular wall in maint away from hemorrhaging illicit contraband.
ONLY the captain can access the prison "medical" area (read: execution room). Which doesn't make a huge amount of sense why the HoS can't as they can also authorise executions as well. Even the AI isn't able to open the doors (which assume is so a borg cannot stop human harm that maybe taking place).
The idea behind the prison medical area/prisoner transfer centre is to give Security a area to execute people that is off the grid so to speak, more so to give the AI peace of mind thinking the prisoner is being sent away (While technically true, just not in a way a AI would approve of).
On Boxstation the room uses Armoury access, meaning the Captain, Head of Security and Warden have access to it. That should be the same for Asteroidstation.
Last time I checked Boxstations Execution Room had the AI control wire's cut on the doors. In theory the AI cannot manipulate the doors to the Transfer/Medical/Execution room.
Ello, not a priority, but the machine frame in the hideout thing outside of Maint seems a bit bugged.
Can't seem to do anything with it, including getting rid of it or using it to make something.
As well, minor thing, but the computer frame next to it can't be moved at first, despite needing to wrench it down still, which is whats supposed to make it unmoveable.
Said hideout area.
Also, theres a circuit board in Tech Storage that is just.. a circuit board. Nothing specific, and can't seem to complete a computer that uses it. Its in the top right pile of boards, with the crew monitor and message monitor boards.
peoplearestrange wrote:I have to say there's a major flaw in the the R-Walls at the bridge. The "South" or lower corridor leading to the main bridge doesn't have R-Wall's on its south side. This means the blast doors, when triggered, can be easily got around by removing one normal wall in the court room (which is public access).
This should be an intentional flaw, on Box you can always reach the Bridge by welding into the conference room from the little maint room and then welding through the wall beside the door leading into the Bridge. If the shutters for the conference room's windows aren't closed this is even easier.
peoplearestrange wrote:I have to say there's a major flaw in the the R-Walls at the bridge. The "South" or lower corridor leading to the main bridge doesn't have R-Wall's on its south side. This means the blast doors, when triggered, can be easily got around by removing one normal wall in the court room (which is public access).
This should be an intentional flaw, on Box you can always reach the Bridge by welding into the conference room from the little maint room and then welding through the wall beside the door leading into the Bridge. If the shutters for the conference room's windows aren't closed this is even easier.
Yeah if it's not already intentional, make it that way.
There are already other ways onto the bridge. Specially through the main window glass from space, of course its through space, but unlike on box there are no shutters (which can be a pain when asteroids start hitting the station).
Also I saw yesterday that the "Extra" shuttle that's at arrivals doesn't start with windows, just grilles. Which means air escapes as soon as its moved from CentComm to the station. I assume this is left over from the shuttles full-tiled windows update.
I feel that arrivals is too greifable compared to boxstation,box station has more than one way to go through if the main area is bombed. Unless that's what you were going for.
If that area is bombed it basically cuts off new players to the round.
maybe add a little area of maint that people can walk through for an alternate route or something idk
or maybe add another area to loop around above the shuttle, two exits?
Version 7 has largely been just fixing bugs reported so far, issues regarding reorganization of areas will come next.
Spoiler:
BangingDonk wrote:There MIGHT have been folks talking about how the containment field is potentially set up oddly or incorrectly at round start? Again, I don't know much about how that's working out.
The containment generators and emitters require movement from their starting positions; this is intentional since it's not exactly difficult to do.
lumipharon wrote:The sleepers are further from the entrance then the cryo tubes. A small thing, but is quite noticable, in terms of how often you'll have to drag some pleb past cryo to the sleepers, when the sleepers should be closer to begin with.
The first version of medbay had sleepers where cryo is now, they were moved since dying patients brought in from outside would needed the quickest access to cryo whereas patients who needed to use the sleepers weren't in threat of imminent death.
lumipharon wrote:I don't know if this has been fixed, but the last time this map was live, the chef had no way to access the morgue, as he couldn't access maint.
It may have been an incidental issues, the chef has had access all around medbay maint every time i've tried it out, including just now with version 7.
lumipharon wrote:And yeah, botany not having sinks means you run out of water really fast.
Sinks were added in version 6
lumipharon wrote:Tcomms is a little hard to bomb, in that you either have to mine through rock to get near the apc (which is an issue for ops) or go through the front door, which is on a main corridor.
Bombing from maintenance between cargo and tcomms with a syndicate bomb will knock out comms apc provided you don't put the bomb too far south, however there is the potential for RNG to stop that from happening so I'll move the APC anyway.
lumipharon wrote:A lot of rooms/areas are unneccesarily large, while a couple are too small.
Which ones?
lumipharon wrote:Edit: So I got alium on basil because random event (I managed to turn literally the entire server pop into aliums, we had to restart vote to end it), and I noticed that the vents are divided into sections. This means for vent crawling, you are extremely limited on where you can crawl, from a given place.
Yeah this is a problem that would only really be fixed by removing the departmentalized atmos.
Steelpoint wrote:On Boxstation the room uses Armoury access, meaning the Captain, Head of Security and Warden have access to it. That should be the same for Asteroidstation.
Last time I checked Boxstations Execution Room had the AI control wire's cut on the doors. In theory the AI cannot manipulate the doors to the Transfer/Medical/Execution room.
On the latest version of Boxstation the execution room is req_access = 2 (brig timers and perma) and has aiControlDisabled set to 0, although I suspect that might be a bug as it's value has been edited yet is also set to default.
TZK13 wrote:
peoplearestrange wrote:I have to say there's a major flaw in the the R-Walls at the bridge. The "South" or lower corridor leading to the main bridge doesn't have R-Wall's on its south side. This means the blast doors, when triggered, can be easily got around by removing one normal wall in the court room (which is public access).
This should be an intentional flaw, on Box you can always reach the Bridge by welding into the conference room from the little maint room and then welding through the wall beside the door leading into the Bridge. If the shutters for the conference room's windows aren't closed this is even easier.
Yes this is intentional, further balance testing is needed however to see if it should remain as such.
The following problems mentioned here were fixed:
Spoiler:
BangingDonk wrote:OH SHIT, I remembered something else that's just a massive irritation so far. The button that you can supposedly use to exit cryotubes without access isn't access-unlocked. It's presumably still triggered to unlock for only Medbay, so you still get people asking to get let out of the cryo-room.
Aleph wrote:I believe that the escape shuttle doesn't have the proper access restrictions. Also Robotics needs flashes for its cyborgs. The ones they start with don't work for some reason.
Saintish wrote:Put a single mining drill on the Syndicate shuttle. It'll add an interesting dynamic to that roundtype.
alphaBeta wrote:Brig cells are useless; they can be opened from the inside, without any access.
Air alarms are placed too rare on hallways, IMO.
Random Players wrote:Gateway has no way to open the shutters.
Bridge dorms far left wall isn't visible on cameras, so the AI can't interact with that APC or see if the wall is intact.
Incomptinence wrote:Warden can't access prison medical. I have heard it is an execution room? Even so the warden's duty is to guard the brig so they have to check it isn't filled with aliens or something good that it lacks a camera though
Boredone wrote:Ello, not a priority, but the machine frame in the hideout thing outside of Maint seems a bit bugged.
Can't seem to do anything with it, including getting rid of it or using it to make something.
As well, minor thing, but the computer frame next to it can't be moved at first, despite needing to wrench it down still, which is whats supposed to make it unmoveable.
Also, theres a circuit board in Tech Storage that is just.. a circuit board. Nothing specific, and can't seem to complete a computer that uses it. Its in the top right pile of boards, with the crew monitor and message monitor boards.
peoplearestrange wrote:Also I saw yesterday that the "Extra" shuttle that's at arrivals doesn't start with windows, just grilles. Which means air escapes as soon as its moved from CentComm to the station. I assume this is left over from the shuttles full-tiled windows update.
francinum wrote:Glass on the AI module holders are missing.
lumipharon wrote:And just looking on basil now, it appears (unless someone manually removed them in round for some reason) that the r-glass panels in the genetics monkey pen (and possibly other places) are missing.
Rest of the changes can be seen in the changelog
Finally the following are things I'm going to try and address in the next update:
Spoiler:
lumipharon wrote:Visually, the medbay looks fantastic, practically however, it's got issues. the foyer is so wide, that if you try drag someone in, directly towards cryo/sleepers, you won't even see them from chemistry. As a chemist, I let in (and heal) far more people then actual doctors. In the ideal world of course, there would be a doctor at the desk. In reality, you're going to be sitting at the door asking over comms for it to open.
The west part of the medbay corridor has 2 tile wide parts. You wouldn't think that would be a serious issue, but fuck, I remember so many times where it just got utterly traffic jammed to shit there.
A lot of the medical supplies are not in med storage, but readily accessible from the medcorridor. Fuckers can and do steal this shit, which is annoying as hell.
Maint also is a bit barren. It has loads of 2 wide corridors, but there's nothing in them. On box and meta, it's lots of 1 wide corridors (it is maint after all), and the wider areas are cluttered with stuff, which IMO looks nicer/more mainty.
There is a DISTURBING lack of a maint bar, or a good spot for one. The SW maint room is alright, but it has a lack of windows to space, which is a shame.
None of the service jobs have a maint door to their work places, which is bad for various reasons (mainly antag related). And yeah, botany not having sinks means you run out of water really fast.
I personally don't like the open plan dining area, mainly because people just run through it all the time. Usually the bar is an island of (relative) calm.
alphaBeta wrote:It sounds like a really bad plan to put new prisoners to perma while it is occupied. Also, fire extinguisher allows them to break those windows every single time.
There should be more replacement lights boxes around in maint, I've spent 6 minutes looking for one and found none.
Incomptinence wrote:Also maybe evidence room should be a little more insulated, not heave but maybe located deeper in the brig so it isn't 1 regular wall in maint away from hemorrhaging illicit contraband.
peoplearestrange wrote:Perma needs a proper re-design. Only having 2 usable cells and allowing people to easily break out of the gluag by pickaxing the windows. Also as you say the only real reasonable thing to do is to bolt perma prisoners in those tiny cells as to risk having them run about whilst you bring in a new prisoner is just plane risky or stupid (as I found out yesterday as the warden).
Infact having a separate entrance/exit to the gluag mining part would make much more sense.
peoplearestrange wrote:Specially through the main window glass from space, of course its through space, but unlike on box there are no shutters (which can be a pain when asteroids start hitting the station).
cocothegogo wrote:I feel that arrivals is too greifable compared to boxstation,box station has more than one way to go through if the main area is bombed. Unless that's what you were going for.
Yeah, the medsec outpost has THREE! door controls, but not the actual reception area.
Also cryo and sleepers really need to get switched around, and the doors from those two rooms need to be removed/replaced with firelocks, since they just get in the way.
Then if the med supplies actually go into the med storage room so they don't all get stolen, remove a single wall tile from between the current sleeper room and med corridor, so it's a two wide entrance like the current cyro room, so its less cramped.
Both the gibber and the crematorium are not accessible from maint. As well as meaning the chaplain and hef can't get into maint as easily (although there is still maint access at the main chapel) it means it's harder to sneakily destroy bodies.
Barman has a chem master though, which is 10/10.
Edit: Speaking of bars, this is the most critical, map breaking ERROR that must be fixed immediately. The maint bar, that room own in the SW corner with the booze storage and shit, the south wall bit, that's vertically one tile below the booze storage. Move this down one more tile, so as a barman I can have a larger bar frontage, without making the bar too cramped. Also a window directly south of the sink would be nice. Pic related .
Edit 2: The captain doesn't have some kind of important command chair on the bridge, which is a shame.
Edit 3: There are no r-walls beside the evidence room door, which compromises the security of the brig, as that's literally the only spot in that doesn't have them. Oh and the sec maint door just leads directly onto the main corridor, so it's function the same as the front door (except no shutters), which is pretty lame. The 2 rechargers are in the main brig area instead of the sec office, which makes them rather unsecure, when you have non sec in the brig.
I don't know if this is a mapping problem or what, but many of the intercomms across the station fail to update when you try to activate either the speaker or the microphone as an AI. If you try to change the intercom in the CE's office for example it' will show you that it switched then auto update back to what it was before you did anything to it. If you try to change the frequency it's on it does the same thing and reverts back to what it was by default.
list of terrible changes since i restored this map
relocation of grav gen
RESCRAMBLING OF THE FUCKING SINGULO
uglification of botany
ever being put on badger
removal of gun and robo limbs from maintenance
DID I MENTION SCRAMBLED SINGULO? NO ONE LIKE THATS! NO ONE LIKES THAT NO ONE LIKE THATS! NO ONE LIKES THAT NO ONE LIKE THATS! NO ONE LIKES THAT NO ONE LIKE THATS! NO ONE LIKES THAT NO ONE LIKE THATS! NO ONE LIKES THAT
i genuinely wish i had never restored this map. i made it because hbl wanted me to AND jordie's words on it in #coderbus indicated he wasn't interested in continuing it. now that jordie's completely shat all over the map i hate it
allura wrote:
DID I MENTION SCRAMBLED SINGULO? NO ONE LIKE THATS! NO ONE LIKES THAT NO ONE LIKE THATS! NO ONE LIKES THAT NO ONE LIKE THATS! NO ONE LIKES THAT NO ONE LIKE THATS! NO ONE LIKES THAT NO ONE LIKE THATS! NO ONE LIKES THAT
For all that is holy please turn the disposal chute into a separate room, anyone who feels the need to toss themselves down a chute has access to the cargo warehouse and it gets really annoying.
MMMiracles wrote:For all that is holy please turn the disposal chute into a separate room, anyone who feels the need to toss themselves down a chute has access to the cargo warehouse and it gets really annoying.
This is true. Just add part-tile windows alone the chute and a windoor with cargo access, and that'll be fine.
Also cargo is easily the shittest sec assignment on the whole station. You get a tiny ass office compared to the kickin rad ones in medical and science, and you do not have access to the cargo bay so you literally cannot police your own department. You have to sit outside and use disposals if you wanna get in.
also
toxins needs a tachyon thingy
atmos needs a turbine
and what allura said about the containment field is right, that disassembled field is totally disgusting
whew man like a nigga makes 3 or 4 small cosmetic changes when they fix a map and theyre all reverted in 3 updates what are you fuckin lobotomized?
this map is still total horseshit, it being run as an official map is killing this server and killing me
