/tg/Station 13

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Where is departures?

Nabski wrote:Where is departures?

I did a dumb and put escape pods where the shuttle arrives. Ignore the top 2 escape pods.

Another station where hydroponics isn't adjacent to the kitchen

its literally ACROSS THE HALL

MMMiracles wrote:its literally ACROSS THE HALL

>only across the hall
That's what they said about Omegastation, where the only thing on the menu was deep-fried appendix burgers

wow interesting map design
sorry we can't allow this only metastation and boxstation clones allowed, please cease work on this map now.

Alas yet another station without a conjoined maintenance. Still the circular hall is awesome. I feel as if no SM Engine might anger codere tho (even tho tesla is the best).

i like how it looks

Singulo is boring. Switch to SM, it wouldnt be that hard to smack the crystal in the center so explosions effect the entire ring.

Dr_bee wrote:Singulo is boring. Switch to SM, it wouldnt be that hard to smack the crystal in the center so explosions effect the entire ring.

Singulo is especially fitting for donut, SM somewhere would be useful though

somerandomguy wrote:

Dr_bee wrote:Singulo is boring. Switch to SM, it wouldnt be that hard to smack the crystal in the center so explosions effect the entire ring.

Singulo is especially fitting for donut, SM somewhere would be useful though

I know the original goon map used it, but even goon moved away from the singulo for very similar reasons that /tg/ moved away from it, it is set and forget with no depth and catastrophic once released. SM would update the station a bit, and is an engine you can actually DO stuff with.

An SM so central to the station would also increase the importance of it as well, as a delam wont just fuck over engineering anymore.

Nostalgia isnt worth a boring engine.

I like the singulo.

Dr_bee wrote:

somerandomguy wrote:

Dr_bee wrote:Singulo is boring. Switch to SM, it wouldnt be that hard to smack the crystal in the center so explosions effect the entire ring.

Singulo is especially fitting for donut, SM somewhere would be useful though

I know the original goon map used it, but even goon moved away from the singulo for very similar reasons that /tg/ moved away from it, it is set and forget with no depth and catastrophic once released. SM would update the station a bit, and is an engine you can actually DO stuff with.

An SM so central to the station would also increase the importance of it as well, as a delam wont just fuck over engineering anymore.

Nostalgia isnt worth a boring engine.

There's at least enough space that a delam does barely anything
Maybe it'll scratch maint a bit but not much else

>disapproving of singulo
how low have we fallen

Psst hey
Know what’s more boring than singulo? (Hint: it isn’t the tesla. That gets you half a point.)

confused rock wrote:Psst hey
Know what’s more boring than singulo? (Hint: it isn’t the tesla. That gets you half a point.)

Spoiler:

every map having the same engine because change is scary

I would take a TEG over the singulo or tesla. You can at least fuck around with the gas mixes with the TEG.

If you dont like the SM create other engine systems with actual depth.

Set and forget tesla and singulo and "lul just add more chambers" antimatter are boring.

SM has more mechanical depth but that doesn't stop majority of engineer players from just setting the basic guide and fucking off for the rest of the round, baring the random attempt at sabotage where you just dump N2 into the chamber.

Donutstation interests me not because of nostalgia or anything like that- I'm just very interested in the idea of a map design that is in its base concept not in the slightest based off other maps. there's an ai sat and shit sure but this map design clearly isn't made to be as efficient as possible or to make the designer's favorite department have a free unica in the contraband closet or anything like that. Lots of interesting illogical design choices, gonna be the opposite of a hugbox- I like the small stretch of maint that only science can access, and that atmos has walls adjacent to a stretch of maint. logical? no. but it's going to be interesting, and it just gives something that an engineering officer could guard. Maint not being conjoined just means baddies have to be more cautious, loud, or both. I thought birdboat had a lot of memes but I liked how it actually *was* a metal death trap. I like a lot about metastation but the free shit in that room in maint cargo always felt a bit much to me, but I forgive it because metacide was just trying to make a highpop map with no reference. I think delta just tries *too hard* to be liked by adding too much free shit. I doubt anyone knows what donut was trying to accomplish but I doubt it will turn out to be bland when its design is by default inefficient.

Quick glance looks good.

Are the SMES located outside the central core area to help avoid easy depowering the entire station?

OP updated with a new map image, major things are the last two things structurally left to do are escape pods and disposals. Started work on piping and wiring.

PS you should put a smartfridge on the south side of hydroponics so botanists have a place to drop off crops for the chef because it might be useful if botanists decide to help feed the station.

not an antag friendly map but as a command main im ok with that

if you're going to half the size of standard eva then maybe put more suits somewhere else on the station

also i think this would need some code intervention but what if when the singulo was set up, the ce could use his consoles to "lock" the singulo stuff? fe the emitters can't be turned off, the airlocks get bolted, etc. also, what if the engine had an antitamper system where if some tator starts slicing the wires then it spits out a message in .e and .s BEFORE singuloth is loose?

honestly just some garbage i thought up, i don't know enough about engineering to say anything meaningful

e: i feel like separating ul mods and the ul indirectly incentives mindless condoms like myself to upload his meme laws, toss the freeform in a backpack, and end up losing it while the revs/ops/wiz/anything else is/are still human

What does”not an antag friendly map” even mean
Things like split up maint hurting validhunters and atmos being connected to maint can only help em to me. Whether it’s “””antag friendly””” or not is entirely subjective, but having some jobs and antags have a harder time can only be a good thing. If antags and jobs have the same difficulty in the same ways on each map, why have several maps at all?
Edit: having few eva suits just gives reason for cargo and mining to buy more or for people to search for other options. Engi seems compact enough that if sec or the ce actually do their job it sounds fine.

High Impact Dolphin wrote:Engine Security

Something like the motion sensitive cameras might work.

confused rock wrote:What does”not an antag friendly map” even mean

i was mostly referring to the lesser and disjointed maint which imo, hurts known antags since you can't be as unpredictable with your positions, which is exacerbated by the lack of actual entrances and exits to not only maint, but to most of anywhere on the station. fe if someone yells "HELP SCURRA BARDUS ROGUE WITH ESWORD IN CARGO," there is literally one method of exiting cargo on this map without blowing a wall, and that's through the front door. for reference, meta has SIX, and delta has four. obviously bigger maps, but they're the two at the top right now. the same issue applies to bridge (1 vs 5 and 4) and to a less important extent, crematorium and hop/cap offices (all 1 vs all 2). its not that big a deal really, but it might add up against a loud tator/wiz/etc, who can more often be pushed into a corner.

confused rock wrote:...having some jobs and antags have a harder time can only be a good thing. If antags and jobs have the same difficulty in the same ways on each map, why have several maps at all?

i agree; i didn't mean to imply that the map should be changed to facilitate murderbone or anything. this is also an argument for why the singulo should be the only base engine on the map(but the github looks like they've already reached that conclusion)

one other thing op, i can't help but notice that there's no reeducation center. do you plan to add one eventually, or did you want to incentivize the use of perma?

Re-education center is a meme and having a room where the AI is forced to be ignorant of it's true purpose even though literally everyone knows what it is dumb, especially on a server where everyone can know everything about every department/mechanic/antag.

Security has an entire off-station gulag for getting rid of people away from the prying eyes of a silicon, it shouldn't be an issue.

Hey I don't care if botany is across the hall make it conjoined. It's just easier that way. Also Kitchen lacks shutters for the windows or the table. On top of that there's not much starting supplies except meat there for some reason. And primary tool storage actually lacks a tool vendor. Also a bit weird Tcomms has it's own separate little area and doesn't even have a tube to go to it. Same with the AI sat lacking a tube. Also the det's office is on the other side of command instead of with security, and going through maint to get to the AI upload doors? Wew. I like it though, some bits seem a little overly large with nothing going on, like the chapel.

+100 points for having a sing because the SM is bad trash and anyone who likes it should feel bad.

I'd need to play a little longer to see how evading the cops is.

Things I noticed during our test with Donutstation:
1. The cargo shuttle clips into the corner of one of the windows at arrivals. This doesn't really inflict any danger upon the crew, but it's rather unsightly.
2. You used the old window structure (grille, 4 directional windows). I remember briefly talking with someone when they made the change a few years ago, and as I understand it's an init streamlining matter to use one single full-tile window as opposed to four directional ones. As it was a while ago, this may no longer be the case, and I may not even be remembering the reasoning correctly, but as a preference, I like the aesthetics of your current window structure, but using a full-tile window makes both dismantling/repair significantly easier.
3. Tool storage is incredibly scant on tools. There was a vendomat (igniters, signallers, and whatnot), as well as a sole tool locker, which stores an rng assortment of tools. I could've just been late, and all the toolboxes had been taken, so this isn't that big.
4. I found ONE O2 locker. Couldn't find any firefighter lockers.
5. Unless it was fixed at some point, Lord Singuloth cannot be contained right now.

Overall, I like the design, and despite the issues, I'd really like to see this further developed.

Xenobio has no starting slimes, no fridge extract as a backup, and is missing camera coverage in the top leftmost cell. Would also like to mention that most people in Xenobio prefer having the smart slime fridge next to the slime management consoles. This image was taken at the end of the round, after I had moved one console to be somewhat close to the fridge. http://prntscr.com/lbz7mc

I get that this map is WIP, but toxins is broken on it. There is no tank storage and the amount of room given by the burn chamber makes it impossible to modify the layout much at all.

I do like the map design, but please do look into this.

A solution to the issue of botany not touching the kitchen: Add a disposal bin in botany that leads to the kitchen. It would be awesome to have the plants fly out of the kitchen walls. Plus the botanists can jump down the disposals and flee to the kitchen when Sec comes to bust their heads for spamming stupid plants.

I'm really interested in this map and hope to see it further developed.

On the singularity issue. I think the singularity is a fine engine to use for this station, and if it gets loose its guaranteed to ruin some areas of the station outside of Engineering.

PS: I am slightly disappointed that Research is not off station in its own separate station, but that would be a major change to the game.

Since this has been used on the servers I'm working on getting a render into renderbus.

I'll be blunt I don't see the appeal, some areas are very poorly designed (off the top of my head, those dorm rooms are pointless and some departments like cargo don't even have a maintenance tunnel, most departments are laughably easy to break into) and it seems like the entire concept is hinged on the gimmick of having the engine in the middle and it inevitably eating the entire station every other round, which is going to get tiresome pretty quick

Mickyan wrote:I'll be blunt I don't see the appeal, some areas are very poorly designed (off the top of my head, those dorm rooms are pointless and some departments like cargo don't even have a maintenance tunnel, most departments are laughably easy to break into) and it seems like the entire concept is hinged on the gimmick of having the engine in the middle and it inevitably eating the entire station every other round, which is going to get tiresome pretty quick

Cargo is one department I plan on revamping before the next test run since I'm not a fan of it myself, the rest like the dorm's barrack-style room is intentionally faithful to the old donutstation design. Departments being easier to break into in some cases isn't even a bad thing as that gives people more options rather than the rather cut and dry options every other map has. As for the engine containment, it's probably one of the more secure singularity setups since it takes more than one wire cut to release it so hopefully releases will be more rare.

All in all, if the design doesn't suit your fancy you can always choose another preferred map in your preferences. The feedback so far has been fairly decent and I think the shakeup from the usual box/meta reskins is a good thing for the map pool, personally.

I've played I think 2 or 3 rounds on donut so far and I haven't actually seen the station get ate yet, though it's come danger close (someone destroying all but 2 emitters comes to mind) and that made engi pretty scary.I didn't expect the fact that several wires need be cut to matter so much, but it did. I dunno where showers are, bur dorms not actually having any bolted cozies may make dorms less useful but also make people come up with more interesting places to spawn their FUCKING SURPLUS CRATE and also gives more value to the rooms heads of staff get and blah blah.

As much as I want to like it though I'm sorry but for the love of fuck please please PLEASE add a dual airlock or something to the engi entrance. maybe use windoors even, I don't know, but the greytide is fucking unimaginable. Maybe that's because the map is new sure, but ohmyfuckinggod I had to swat out THREE assistants before I even had put a hardsuit on, let alone set the engine up. Engineers absolutely need at least a double door (or maybe open shocked grilles or something to take advantage of their gloves, I dunno)

I've heard a lot of people struggle to find tool storage, but I can't tell if that's a real problem or not. Maybe it should be right above the singulo where that room with the shutters is, was it a shop? I dunno, but engineering doesn't get a toolvend and tool storage doesn't get a remote signaller machine. Those two things are pretty nitpicky, and if I had to be as nitpicky as possible I dislike the random figurines the jobs get like on delta. What do they actually add to the map? Then again I can't really put into words what they detract besides "just get em from the arcade they ruin muh immersions" So I doubt it's a good opinion.
probably lastly I think the courtroom could benefit from being rotated 90* clockwise to make it seem like a more welcoming room to walk into. maybe I'm crazy. if you get what I mean by this then please consider it otherwise nobody cares about the courtroom much anyways.

If you are going to stubbornly stick with the singulo I would increase the security around it. Add motion sensor cameras that alert the AI and engineering department.

The main downside to the singulo is that once it is out it is out, and there is no warning of sabotage so there is no chance to fix it.

To counter this fact the singularity needs to be a fucking fortress by comparison to the SM. Make it harder to initially sabotage because it is not possible to fix.


Get rid of those tiny fans as well, we have linked airlocks now!

I'm going to stubbornly stick with the engine that the entire map design is based around and compliments, yes. The containment is already fully sealed off with high-security airlocks and with how the current powergrid is set up for containment emitters, it takes multiple (7, at the least) wire cuts to actually sabotage the containment power from the outside. Extra sabotage failsafes is engineering/the AI actually doing their job with periodic checks to make sure some dickhead didn't leave the PA on or doing rounds around the SMES arms to make sure the cables aren't cut.

Singulary is the best engine, if you don't like it, you can get out.

Thank you lumber, very constructive.
Engi has a problem not with the singulo itself, you just get assistants runnin through the front door grabbin shit off tables, taking the entire electrical locker, that sort of cancer.

On what station this is not a thing?

Lumber have you even fucking played donut there’s only one airlock between the hallway and the gloves

You mean like in tech storage on meta?

Engineering now has a small 3x1 airlock along with a few extra pieces of equipment. Cargo and the chapel were redesigned to an extent to allow a maintenance tunnel between the two departments while also giving cargo a small warehouse to stash shit away from prying eyes. I also added the first iteration of the escape shuttle for testing.

Now that it's being played more there are some issues with how easy it is to release the sing. Last night a single bomb from the main hallway was able to shut off the emitters and loose the engine. If you're able to release the engine without even being in engineering that's an issue.

I also noticed a lack of vending machines in the hall unless I'm blind.

A single bomb in the hall has no way of disabling containment power, since the containment is wired directly into the grid and has 7 different points where it can access power from spread across the map. The only round where I saw containment breach was where someone directly cut the wiring under the emitters and set the PA to 2, and even then it didn't get loose until after the evac shuttle had departed.

My main concern is limited and simplistic public space and maintenance layout.

Public spaces are a bit barebones, yeah, and I plan on doing a general 'fluff' work on these areas now that everything else is more or less tested and generally received well. Maintenance itself is gonna be an endeavor of it's own since I'm not entirely sure what to do with it. I personally find that maps like Delta take it waaaay too far with stuff like maintenance loot and abandoned rooms, but I get the appeal of having these since it helps with stuff like gimmicks or gathering supplies in general. I wouldn't mind hearing about what people want from a maintenance section since I am doing more work into making maintenance interesting.

I think a more simple maint leads to more creativity- meta just means everyone bases in one of the cut off parts, box is the worst in that its one spot is abandoned surgery and fucking everyone uses that or vacant office. If that's not an option, than things get much more interesting. I'd like to see cults etc create entire new rooms or secretly take over a department for a hiding spot.