/tg/Station 13

Bottom post of the previous page:

So why isn't this getting merged? I am pretty excited and surely I'm not alone with this. MERGE

Tarchonvaagh wrote:So why isn't this getting merged? I am pretty excited and surely I'm not alone with this. MERGE

The mapmaker hasn't come back yet.

kilo stands for killed okand

rip

Ayy Lemoh wrote:

Tarchonvaagh wrote:So why isn't this getting merged? I am pretty excited and surely I'm not alone with this. MERGE

The mapmaker hasn't come back yet.

aw

EDIT: Okay, so for some reason i was unable to see the later posts, maybe some eu shit since i am on a holiday in another continent i can see it now sorry for the "shouting".

EDIT2: im an ape because i haven't noticed that i am on the second page ples disregard my idiotism

Now that I have the time to continue working on Kilo Station, I'll be updating it and grinding out what issues I can. I'll update the map overview images when possible, but I'd love to hear your thoughts on what could be changed or improved in the coming updates!

? https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/46367

Looking forward to it being finished, current maps have gotten really stale

Mickyan wrote:? https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/46367

Looking forward to it being finished, current maps have gotten really stale

limitless power

which map are you going to highlander out

SpaceManiac wrote:which map are you going to highlander out

oranges initially suggested boxstation

Okand37 wrote:

SpaceManiac wrote:which map are you going to highlander out

oranges initially suggested boxstation

>tfw not donut

Much like Delta, this station has a spawling maint city but no actual crew recreational area apart from dorms and arguably the bar, which by the way I love being split from the cafeteria. Open mingling areas are in short supply on every station and IMO it makes RP more difficult because it forces every interaction that's too roomy for a workplace into stab-alley. More experienced players have no qualms about navigating the dark corridors around the station but the combined janky navigation, isolation and all around feeling of illegitimacy of the area disencourage substantial commitments by the crew to most RP driven group activities.

I really want to see this in action, but at the same time I know that, at least on bagil, we're never going to fucking see this map because everyone votes fucking bagil.

Good work though!

Also, is it really the best idea to have the captain's office that close to botany?

Iatots wrote:Much like Delta, this station has a spawling maint city but no actual crew recreational area apart from dorms and arguably the bar, which by the way I love being split from the cafeteria. Open mingling areas are in short supply on every station and IMO it makes RP more difficult because it forces every interaction that's too roomy for a workplace into stab-alley. More experienced players have no qualms about navigating the dark corridors around the station but the combined janky navigation, isolation and all around feeling of illegitimacy of the area disencourage substantial commitments by the crew to most RP driven group activities.

Here's my reasoning on a few of those points. To start, areas such as the chapel, bar, and kitchen are further incorporated into the main cycle of the station to increase their access and relevance to the station. We also have the courtroom in a much more central location, sharing room with the law office to be more centralized near command to up their visibility and ultimately accessibility by command.

Secondly, the departments themselves are intended to further incorporate interactivity, as you're both in a tighter-knit space and more visible to the rest of your colleagues. In addition, many of the rooms traverse through one another or next to one another, or at least in viewing range. Your fellow crewmembers are more present visibly, which can help serve to bolster interactivity.

Part of the reason the bar and the library are mingled is to bolster their functionality while keeping the interactivity possible. Some less prevalent areas were incorporated into different sections on basis of their function. It is true that there might not be as many recreational rooms on Kilostation, but I think the design helps to increase interactivity.

The sprawling maintenance is something I find enjoyable in my stations since I like the idea of a more run-down, lived-in and dangerous station since I think it well reflects the atmosphere of SS13.

I hope this answer gives you some insight into why I made the decisions I made. I'm an avid roleplayer and designed the map with specific mechanical functions in mind to help promote interactivity, among other things!

Reyn wrote:Also, is it really the best idea to have the captain's office that close to botany?

It isn't necessarily portrayed in the stitched .png or google drive image as they're outdated, but the layout of the maintenance doors for the captain's office was switched up a bit. Some of the theme is having the station be less secure or reinforced in some areas, but in the test merges we've ran prior I haven't had any specific issues with its proximity to hydroponics. Might be funny to see what ways botany develops mastermind plan(t)s to break into the captain's office though!

As most of the station is still up-to-date, I've mostly just been working on grinding out what few things I notice, and updating areas in accordance with changes on other stations. This also includes features not present in the initial testmerge of Kilo Station, which includes... the white ship!

1. The White Ship
The White Ship, not present on the testmerge of Kilo, has been added to the updated and full copy. Away from the symmetrical designs of the other station, Kilo's shuttle is meant to reflect the station's room-to-room design. It is a small mining junk freighter. It will dock with a port that connects to the top airlock and the blast doors in the cargo bay. There are some plans set for it to integrate it with the station that I hope you'll all find interesting when the time comes! For now, here's a view of the shuttle itself!

In-game View: Editor View:

One of the major complaints during the testmerge was the overuse of bright colors in the tiling, which was disorienting to some players (I mainly heard this about the escape shuttle). Has that been addressed at all?

Sandshark808 wrote:One of the major complaints during the testmerge was the overuse of bright colors in the tiling, which was disorienting to some players (I mainly heard this about the escape shuttle). Has that been addressed at all?

I'm always happy to take feedback into consideration, but I tend to be more willing to incorporate functional feedback. As this is just an aesthetic choice, I don't necessarily have any plans nor intentions on changing it. One reason it may be more disorientating is due to the comparison of other maps and their levels of detail, which weren't possible until the turf_decal system was introduced. One way metacide had put it in regards to Kilo Station was that a similar complaint had arisen about Meta Station and it's "overbearing detail" when Box Station was the go-to station, which you can find here:

The visual style stands out and looks good, the map feels great to walk around in, can't wait to give this a try sometime with a full crew.
As for the busy design with lots of warning tiles - when Meta first came out loads of people complained there were too many colourful or warning tiles compared to box and it's now the norm - this is fine, you just need to get accustomed to the increased level of detail.
Here's hoping it's run again soon as a test, if not merged outright.

I think in time people will better adjust to the details, but it's something I feel helps the map stand out, and don't intend on changing it in the foreseeable future.

To sum it up in the words of our favourite orange man:

oranges wrote:stop posting about the warning stripes you feral mongrels, it only needs to be said once, if the map maker doesn't want to take your feedback on board, too fucking bad, it's a design and aesthetic decision. Suck it up.

This map looks amazing and I was hyped just walking around it solo, can't wait to play an actual round on it. When do you think it may be ready for another test merge? I missed the first one.

I noticed your white ship design doesn't have any enemies (or maybe they just don't show), do you plan on adding some and if so what type? The meta white ship has syndie mobs, the box one has zombies and I know one of the other ones has spiders (probably delta) so I'd be interested with what you go with should you add some.

Also most white ships have a retro laser somewhere on the ship and I don't see one on yours. On the off chance I'm not just missing it are you not including one at all or are you planning on putting more thematic to the ship on instead? (like maybe a mining hardsuit or something like that since its suppose to be a mining junk freighter)

annoyinggreencatgirl wrote:This map looks amazing and I was hyped just walking around it solo, can't wait to play an actual round on it. When do you think it may be ready for another test merge? I missed the first one.

There are still a few more things I'd like to work on for the map before presenting it for testmerge, as I'd like it to be ready in its most complete state possible.

knacker48 wrote:I noticed your white ship design doesn't have any enemies (or maybe they just don't show), do you plan on adding some and if so what type? The meta white ship has syndie mobs, the box one has zombies and I know one of the other ones has spiders (probably delta) so I'd be interested with what you go with should you add some.

Also most white ships have a retro laser somewhere on the ship and I don't see one on yours. On the off chance I'm not just missing it are you not including one at all or are you planning on putting more thematic to the ship on instead? (like maybe a mining hardsuit or something like that since its suppose to be a mining junk freighter)

I haven't added the enemies just yet as I'd like it to be a bit of a surprise! As for the retro laser, it is located in the personal locker in the ship captain's office.

As much as I liked exploring Kilo during its first testmerge...

Okand37 wrote:

SpaceManiac wrote:which map are you going to highlander out

oranges initially suggested boxstation

...this really isn't a price I'd be willing to pay to see it get a full implementation. Box is basically the definitive ss13 map.

Also, there's a criticism to be had with the white ship. There's quite a few people that like to go hunting for the white ship to use it as a sort of customizable mobile base/autism project. If you consider that aspect, it seems incredibly cramped. I am aware that the white ship on other maps also have this issue, but I think it's still a valid issue to raise.

Rotate out Donut, the map nobody likes.

deedubya wrote:As much as I liked exploring Kilo during its first testmerge...

Okand37 wrote:

SpaceManiac wrote:which map are you going to highlander out

oranges initially suggested boxstation

...this really isn't a price I'd be willing to pay to see it get a full implementation. Box is basically the definitive ss13 map.

It's also a map that's rarely played, considerably outdated, and has no dedicated maintainer (to my knowledge). I enjoy the map, and I'm open to seeing how things go, but it's what oranges had suggested. I'd like to see a map vote done to see which map people would like to see it replace, if any.

deedubya wrote: Also, there's a criticism to be had with the white ship. There's quite a few people that like to go hunting for the white ship to use it as a sort of customizable mobile base/autism project. If you consider that aspect, it seems incredibly cramped. I am aware that the white ship on other maps also have this issue, but I think it's still a valid issue to raise.

If you take the cargo out of the cargo bay, there's a fair bit of room to jigger around with. There are also other ideas that I have alluded to in terms of where some extra space and customization will come from:

Okand37 wrote: It will dock with a port that connects to the top airlock and the blast doors in the cargo bay. There are some plans set for it to integrate it with the station that I hope you'll all find interesting when the time comes! For now, here's a view of the shuttle itself!

So it's on the servers? All of them? I'm excited to finally break into the captain's office using combustible lemons or bluespace tomatoes have a chance to play on this map! Maybe some jokes could be added to it too, sooner or later!

What map was removed for it?

It doesn't seem to be merged on Sybil.

It seems there's a bit of a misunderstanding: It's currently active as a PR and is under review for merging.

Okand37 wrote:It seems there's a bit of a misunderstanding: It's currently active as a PR and is under review for merging.

Good to know. People are excited to see it live!

Kilo Station is currently testmerged on Sybil and Terry(Larry? Garry? Marry?). I've written a google document that I'll use to keep track of updates to address and ideas that are yet to come.
Github Link
Document Link

Scoked grills, shocked grills everywhere

Timonk wrote:Scoked grills, shocked grills everywhere

Thanks for letting me know! This has already been addressed in the document, and will roll out with the update on around Tuesday!

I like its its so smooth and make me want to hug my slime pushine. Excellent map.

I think by far the worst part of kilo is its maintenance.

Its nearly impossible to get anywhere, be it grilles, blockades, or a storm of simple mobs in your way. Not only that but its incredibly visually displeasing, with damaged plates, blood stains, or oil stains every 2 tiles. I get that these are good for atmosphere and that maint isn't supposed to be a pretty or safe place, but I think to some degree it is supposed to be a fun place, which it is currently anything but. And beyond fun the sole reason of maintenance is utility. As it is, maint on kilo is just an unimaginative deathtrap that not even engineers want to bother with.

I suppose this is your design view but as to why you'd want a map with any of these features is beyond me. If its to decrease maint traffic I feel as if more restricted access would do a much better job than throwing as many annoying grievances as you can into it. Just if nothing else I ask for way less simple mobs.

Also remove donut not box.

wesoda25 wrote: Its nearly impossible to get anywhere, be it grilles, blockades, or a storm of simple mobs in your way.

If you'll note, grilles were mentioned in the PR as well as just above in this forum post. The blockades and simple mobs are meant to be paired together to isolate the gimmick and "loot" rooms so that there's a needed level of preparation if you intend to take the loot, and there's danger in doing so. As well, some people just enjoy being able to kill things. This just isn't something I plan on removing, especially in regards to the mobs, because I feel like it adds to the atmosphere and uniqueness of Kilo. It's entirely meant to be a metal deathtrap, and this is apart of that ideal.

wesoda25 wrote:Not only that but its incredibly visually displeasing, with damaged plates, blood stains, or oil stains every 2 tiles. I get that these are good for atmosphere and that maint isn't supposed to be a pretty or safe place, but I think to some degree it is supposed to be a fun place, which it is currently anything but. And beyond fun the sole reason of maintenance is utility.

This is, again, the idea of visual subjectiveness. This doesn't have any real bearing on the mechanical aspects of Kilo. These are intended for the atmosphere. Maintenance isn't supposed to be fun in the sense of happy-go-lucky project space, there's meant to be danger, and if you want to use that project space, you need to overcome it. Space Station 13, to me, is a game that is centrally driven around adversity, and I think this is an interesting way of adding it. As for the aesthetic of blood, oil, rust, and dirty tiles--it's meant to be lived in. It's intentionally cultivated to look well worn and well used in an environment where death is just another day. These mechanics of danger play full well into its utility, just in a different aspect, and combined I think they really highlight what Space Station 13 is--at least for me.

Okand37 wrote:

wesoda25 wrote:Not only that but its incredibly visually displeasing, with damaged plates, blood stains, or oil stains every 2 tiles. I get that these are good for atmosphere and that maint isn't supposed to be a pretty or safe place, but I think to some degree it is supposed to be a fun place, which it is currently anything but. And beyond fun the sole reason of maintenance is utility.

This is, again, the idea of visual subjectiveness. This doesn't have any real bearing on the mechanical aspects of Kilo. These are intended for the atmosphere. Maintenance isn't supposed to be fun in the sense of happy-go-lucky project space, there's meant to be danger, and if you want to use that project space, you need to overcome it. Space Station 13, to me, is a game that is centrally driven around adversity, and I think this is an interesting way of adding it. As for the aesthetic of blood, oil, rust, and dirty tiles--it's meant to be lived in. It's intentionally cultivated to look well worn and well used in an environment where death is just another day. These mechanics of danger play full well into its utility, just in a different aspect, and combined I think they really highlight what Space Station 13 is--at least for me.

IDK if you tested it, but some oil stains slip tremendously and don't seem to become less slippery over time. If this wasn't intentional, then you may be referencing multiple different kinds of decal, and one of them has actual properties.

Some external airlocks have air vent in them so its almost impossible to enter from space in hardsuit you got pushed by airflow from vent.

Other than being a bit laggy, I like it.

Its kind of annoying to get to botany as a bartender.

Also, including a water cooler somewhere on the map so snowcones can be made would be nice.

Honestly, the fact that Kilo's maint is filled with danger deters people who aren't willing to maybe encounter an annoying simple mob from venturing in without taking a lot of damage. As a result, utilizing it as a traitor is all the more advantageous, as losing in it is as simple as 'well fuck, what if I find the poisons spiders, have to fight those, and murderburger man comes out the next airlock and puts a bullet in me?'.

Kilo also has a lot of potential for even more use of lighting and especially could be the poster child for pushing for warmer, varied colours for general lighting. I've always felt /tg/'s lighting was kind of disappointingly lifeless as just a stark white, when it would be given a considerably different kind of character with the right tones in the right places.

So far, the only major issues I've found with it are the various bugs and oversights that have already been acknowledged. Like the AI dying 20 minutes in, the deadly maint grilles, the map crashing after an hour, the vented airlocks, and other things I've likely forgotten. The other issues I have with it aren't entirely the map's fault, but I'll rattle them off anyway.
Mod edit:

The other complaint I have with it doesn't really have anything to do with the map, just the nature of a map testmerge period. We haven't gotten to play on any map other than meta or kilo for about a week now, and kilo clearly isn't built for med-high pop, causing it to feel overcrowded during those times. It'd be nice if maps had specific population variables, and be unable to be selected via rotation or vote when the population is outside of that variable.

Crashing after an hour might not be related to this map. I've noticed rounds on Meta and Delta also crash if they get long.

Can you make dorms bedsheets random

Sandshark808 wrote: IDK if you tested it, but some oil stains slip tremendously and don't seem to become less slippery over time. If this wasn't intentional, then you may be referencing multiple different kinds of decal, and one of them has actual properties.

They should just be regular variants rather than the slippy subtypes. I've replaced any that spawn on the map of their own accord with regulars for the next update. Thanks for letting me know!

carshalash wrote:Also, including a water cooler somewhere on the map so snowcones can be made would be nice.

I'll add a water cooler to the recreation area in the dormitories. As for your prior suggestion, I'd considered setting up a service backroom or delivery system on the lower level between the bar, diner, and hydroponics.

NecromancerAnne wrote:Kilo also has a lot of potential for even more use of lighting and especially could be the poster child for pushing for warmer, varied colours for general lighting. I've always felt /tg/'s lighting was kind of disappointingly lifeless as just a stark white, when it would be given a considerably different kind of character with the right tones in the right places.

What kind of suggestions would you have with this? Are there any specific areas you'd like to see with different shifts of lighting, and if so, what kind of lighting should they have? I'd like to hear more about this!

Timonk wrote:Can you make dorms bedsheets random

Most definitely will include it in the next update!

the lack of green wardrobe lockers renders green jumpsuits and green bandanas non-existent on this station

A render of Kilo is once more available on Renderbus: https://atlantaned.space/renderbus/

you put in the wrong random bedsheet generator! right now it also does bedsheets like syndie and CE one

dorms cabins arent powered

would it be possible to adjust the slime extractors in xenobio?

with the way theres a glass pane overlapping the lower half of the grinder, it makes it surprisingly challenging to get certain colored cores out of it

you can see dorms cabin room floors from prison external airlock

Timonk wrote:you put in the wrong random bedsheet generator! right now it also does bedsheets like syndie and CE one

I've replaced it with the dorms variant now. Thanks for letting me know!

Timonk wrote:dorms cabins arent powered

Looks like it got a bit mucked up when I was changing some stuff. Should be included in the area now.

nianjiilical wrote:would it be possible to adjust the slime extractors in xenobio?

I've swapped the position of the recycler and processor. This should help!

Needs the new reflector trenchcoat instead of the vest.