Kilo Station

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Okand37
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Kilo Station

Postby Okand37 » Sat May 04, 2019 2:46 am #492081

A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away...

SPACE STATION 13

Episode IV

KILO STATION

It is a period of civil war. Syndicate infiltrators, striking from a hidden base,
have won another victory against the evil Nanotrasen.

During the battle, Syndicate Agents managed to steal secret plans to Nanotrasen's
ultimate weapon, Kilo Station, an armored space station with a new compartmentalized
design, lived-in atmosphere, and scientific breakthroughs in map design with enough power
to comfortably fit a medium sized crew!

Pursued by Nanotrasen's bureaucratic officials, Verena Knox races home aboard her starship,
custodian of the stolen plans that can save her people and restore freedom to the playerbase....



After a month of toil, hard labour, and donut-munching, I am proud to present: Kilo Station! Kilo Station is intended as a medium population map that introduces a new and exciting formula to the mix!

Map Image (.png/stitched):
Spoiler:
Image

Map Image (TGMapGen .png):
Spoiler:
Image

Map Image (Google Drive):
Spoiler:


Github Pull Request #43876

This map focuses on a few simple principals to help create a unique but enjoyable experience:

1. Compartmentalization: Cutting out the middle man of hallways, departments are organised on a room-to-room basis, and most rooms have multiple ways in and out. This reduces dead space and brings the department closer together while allowing for more ways to move around the department. Ideally, this transcribes into your co-workers being less "out of sight, out of mind" and keeping engagement, as you're constantly in a workspace instead of an empty hallway. I think this will open up a lot of interesting venues for gameplay of all sorts!

2. Organization: Kilo Station strives to deviate from the formula popularized by Meta Station, but not without reason. It brings a more technical mindset to map organization, re-arranging areas and placing others in ways that boost their usability. Security posts are organized within the departments in a way bring their relevancy up by boosting their coverage and visibility. Low traffic areas like the library, surgery recovery room, courtroom, council chamber and chapel are re-arranged in ways to not only boost their visibility but increase their functionality. Some minor areas like the medbay patient rooms and the cargo warehouse have passed away.

3. Resource Allotment & Scarcity: In previous iterations of my maps, I've toyed with the balance of scarcity regarding both essential and non-essential items. Kilo Station focuses on having less non-job essential items strewn about the station while increasing some of the volume of certain job essential items, specifically in relation to engineering and atmospherics players.

4. Functionality & Purpose: In addition with the organisation changes made above, "maintenance loot" and their respective gimmick rooms have been overrun with simplemob NPCs. While not overtly destructive, the NPC mobs provide no loot of their own, but provide enough challenge to gate certain rare but useful items while providing a new point of interest for certain players to engage with. As well, a number of asteroids and rocks are placed around the station with low-mineral chance, opening up the venue of opportunity while allowing more ways for players to contribute to the round meaningfully.

5. Atmosphere: Last but not least, these various motifs along with the general appearance and environment serve to cultivate a specific lived in atmosphere where destruction, murder, and intrigue is just another day on the job. This aims to give the station a more unique personality to help it become a new and fresh experience for players.


Changelog:
Spoiler:
Update 1: [1] Shifted the front armoury shutters to the HoS' office door; [2] Removed reinforced walls on Cell 6, replaced with electrified window; [3] Replaced library computers in perma-wing with paper bin, pen, and candy corn; [4] Added emergency vents to the CO2, Plasma, and N20 atmospheric chambers; [5] Added some extra electrified grilles to the environment area outside the AI upload.
Update 2: [1] Added manual entrances to xenobiology cells, slightly shifted around equipment and tables.
Update 3: [1] Added door bolts and shutters to the dormitories showers; [2] Upgraded the atmospheric chamber vents to 1x3 instead of 1x1; [3] Moved the gateway to fit between telecommunications and robotics.
Update 4: [1] Staggered grilles along the toxins site lattices to help shield cargo from debris.
Update 5: [1] Reconfigured hydroponics by upping the maximum amount of trays to 14, adding a second plantgene manipulator, replacing the kitchen-to-hydro desk with a fridge, and placing the biogenerator infront.
Last edited by Okand37 on Thu May 16, 2019 9:38 pm, edited 7 times in total.
Reason: Updated TGMapGen .png with an updated version! (5/16/19)
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JusticeGoat
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Re: Kilo Station

Postby JusticeGoat » Sat May 04, 2019 2:54 am #492084

We need to test merge this asap!

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Mickyan
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Re: Kilo Station

Postby Mickyan » Sat May 04, 2019 2:57 am #492086

Hell yes
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Re: Kilo Station

Postby Pizzatiger » Sat May 04, 2019 3:04 am #492088

The (nearly) perfect map in all of its glory.

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Re: Kilo Station

Postby Shadowflame909 » Sat May 04, 2019 3:11 am #492092

Is cool. Is cool.


Bombs, Murderboners, and (insert madness antag here) will make this Map a whole lot more uncomfortable though. If it aint extended.
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Okand37
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Re: Kilo Station

Postby Okand37 » Sat May 04, 2019 3:17 am #492094

Shadowflame909 wrote:Is cool. Is cool.


Bombs, Murderboners, and (insert madness antag here) will make this Map a whole lot more uncomfortable though. If it aint extended.


The one benefit of compactness is that the sheer volume of walls helps bog down explosions to more acceptable limits. It isn't perfect, but it means it isn't as much destructive as it may seem at first. In one way, some of the departments are also more open, which means the more public areas are more visible--in addition to most rooms having multiple doors, this allows for more of a "cat and mouse" gameplay than running into dead ends. Maintenance will certainly make murders more interesting, though!
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Re: Kilo Station

Postby bobbahbrown » Sat May 04, 2019 3:27 am #492095

speedmerge

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Re: Kilo Station

Postby Shadowflame909 » Sat May 04, 2019 3:36 am #492096

Yeah, that makes sense.

Pretty good map, wanna see it in game.

Edit: This map just made the bluespace launchpad a whole lot more useful. Unused Gear getting a comeback!
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Re: Kilo Station

Postby Boris » Sat May 04, 2019 4:04 am #492100

I already fucking love it, does seem like a tad too many monsters in maint though.

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Re: Kilo Station

Postby Coconutwarrior97 » Sat May 04, 2019 4:16 am #492105

I can not wait to play this, it looks insanely comfy.

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Re: Kilo Station

Postby Suicidalpickles » Sat May 04, 2019 4:22 am #492107

Looks great and all
time to metarush the moonlight greatsword to use against cults like the one on Delta
this one's a lot easier to grab too tbh since its behind like 1 regular wall
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Re: Kilo Station

Postby Karp » Sat May 04, 2019 4:45 am #492110

reminds me of asteroidstation. The one thing that's a severe improvement over it is that the AI core isn't as heavily fortified behind as many asteroid tiles, not to mention that you can break in without breaking asteroid tiles via space. You can't destroy asteroid turf without mining tools which makes it much easier for 90+% of the station to invade the ai sat due to mining tools not being as easy to access as spacesuits and tools. I dunno if you listened to me on that but thanks for the improvement on the breachability of the AI sat! Really like the new map.

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Re: Kilo Station

Postby pointlesswaste » Sat May 04, 2019 4:50 am #492111

this looks really cool and i want to play on it
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Re: Kilo Station

Postby TWATICUS » Sat May 04, 2019 4:53 am #492112

bobbahbrown wrote:speedmerge
Image

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Re: Kilo Station

Postby Yakumo_Chen » Sat May 04, 2019 4:54 am #492113

Can't say I'm a fan just from the look of it

For one, it doesn't really look compact in many places. Brig looks fairly huge and has an extraneous hallway that limit's warden's overview from the center. The center of the station looks fairly bloated, although that might just because all the service jobs are around it, though there's still a couple rooms I'd get rid of. Science looks really cozy though, so does medbay. I like those.

The most alarming thing is how really wonky how (in)secure some areas are.
-Brig's standard cells have the same level of security as the perma ones: They face inwards, towards a maintenance tunnel gapped by EVA. One regular brig cell even has an all Rwall surroundings. This ironically makes Brig more secure than Permabrig due to the presence of the warden and difficulty of escaping from brig cells. Also ironically permabrig is more cozy since it has VR sleepers, though they have no way to interact with the AI.
-Brig actually, all things considered, looks fairly... impenetrable? They really only need to secure a couple key spots and it would be really, really hard to break in without EVA of some kind. They can close off the west maint with a single wall and have a whole solars and mech recharger to themselves.
-Bridge also does not feel very secure. There are *many* entrances to the bridge directly from semi-public maintenance, including one from a useless empty room I would think is the staff meeting room but lacks the chairs or... any component of a bridge room, actually. The bridge would seem like an extremely poor holdout against any hostile force, which tends to be the opposite of bridge design.
-Captain's room is almost directly accessible by botany, of all things, and has two (!!) direct maint entries, making it somehow even less secure than the bridge. Botany only has to melt one rwall to get to the captain's locker, in a spot far enough to not see it happening from the main hallway. I daresay it's the least secure command area on the entire station.
-HoS office has regular walls facing space... why?
-Hilariously it's easier to breach the armoury from the HoS office than from space, while we're at it, since his office has nothing but regular walls around it, including adjacent to the armoury.
-Playing silicon looks like it'd be hell honestly. The turrets are all in pretty terrible spots that leave rooms very open to ducking in and shooting before they can rise and the several entry points to the core antechamber and the bad APC placements in both the core and antechamber make it looks like breaking in would be very easy. Not sure if the watcher to the right can knock down rwalls but that seem like it might be an issue?
-Upload has too many entry points that exasperate the terrible turret placement and the whole of upload has all of one camera, an EVA gap that only needs two floor tiles to make atmos-worthy, not many angles to actually view upload breaches from, especially since the upper hallway looks like it will be the least traveled of the main loop.

Other nitpicks:
-Xenobio cells have no manual entry, forcing you to use the consoles.
-The spider in vault looks primed to destroy very important machines like the ore silo.
-I think there should be a mob guarding the maint recharger above the chapel. Rechargers aren't supposed to be very accessible to the public except in a select few cases (holodeck, firing range). There's also free armor. Not really a fan.
-Not sure why you thought it was a good idea to put a chicken in a depressurized room like toxins mix chamber
-I feel like the rage cage could use different mobs. Something that won't get shocked or break any of the grilles. Otherwise they'll just destroy the rage cage the moment someone enters.
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Okand37
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Re: Kilo Station

Postby Okand37 » Sat May 04, 2019 6:25 am #492128

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For one, it doesn't really look compact in many places. Brig looks fairly huge and has an extraneous hallway that limit's warden's overview from the center. The center of the station looks fairly bloated, although that might just because all the service jobs are around it, though there's still a couple rooms I'd get rid of. Science looks really cozy though, so does medbay. I like those.

Comparing to similar stations like Metastation or Deltastation, the hallway box is roughly the same size as Metastation.

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-Brig's standard cells have the same level of security as the perma ones: They face inwards, towards a maintenance tunnel gapped by EVA. One regular brig cell even has an all Rwall surroundings. This ironically makes Brig more secure than Permabrig due to the presence of the warden and difficulty of escaping from brig cells. Also ironically permabrig is more cozy since it has VR sleepers, though they have no way to interact with the AI.

The outside atmosphere mix only requires oxygen tanks, and there are blast doors on the cell windows. It isn't anymore difficult to break out of the regular brig as the exterior windows aren't shocked and you only need your internals, it's also more out of the way and is harder to react to because there's no immediate access outside. As for the permanent wing, it's intended as it is now.

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-Brig actually, all things considered, looks fairly... impenetrable? They really only need to secure a couple key spots and it would be really, really hard to break in without EVA of some kind. They can close off the west maint with a single wall and have a whole solars and mech recharger to themselves.

Security office isn't R-walled, there's maintenance access to break in from the security office, interrogation room, and prison access. You can also use the transferring center from maintenance or the hall to break into the equipment room. There's in total 5 doorways into security counting the transfer center as one.

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-Bridge also does not feel very secure. There are *many* entrances to the bridge directly from semi-public maintenance, including one from a useless empty room I would think is the staff meeting room but lacks the chairs or... any component of a bridge room, actually. The bridge would seem like an extremely poor holdout against any hostile force, which tends to be the opposite of bridge design.
-Captain's room is almost directly accessible by botany, of all things, and has two (!!) direct maint entries, making it somehow even less secure than the bridge. Botany only has to melt one rwall to get to the captain's locker, in a spot far enough to not see it happening from the main hallway. I daresay it's the least secure command area on the entire station.

The general design around the secureness of rooms is to move away from Metastation's generous defenses. Areas are intended to have plentiful amounts of back doors, which means while they have plenty of entrances, there are also plenty of escape routes. Keep on your toes!

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-HoS office has regular walls facing space... why?

Breaking through R-walls and electrified grilles isn't generally an enjoyable experience. You can move the locker inward if you're afraid people will break in and the locker is much further inward into the room. You'll need to climb over a table with the effects of spacewind pulling you out, or break a computer to march into the office and steal the locker.

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-Hilariously it's easier to breach the armoury from the HoS office than from space, while we're at it, since his office has nothing but regular walls around it, including adjacent to the armoury.

Intentional. It's to encourage people to go inside to break into the armoury instead of doing it from space, as it's more counterable and interactive.

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-Playing silicon looks like it'd be hell honestly. The turrets are all in pretty terrible spots that leave rooms very open to ducking in and shooting before they can rise and the several entry points to the core antechamber and the bad APC placements in both the core and antechamber make it looks like breaking in would be very easy. Not sure if the watcher to the right can knock down rwalls but that seem like it might be an issue?

I'm open to suggestions on turret movement, but the core room APC isn't any different than it is on any other map. The watcher is set to environment smash=0.

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-Upload has too many entry points that exasperate the terrible turret placement and the whole of upload has all of one camera, an EVA gap that only needs two floor tiles to make atmos-worthy, not many angles to actually view upload breaches from, especially since the upper hallway looks like it will be the least traveled of the main loop.

The upload is intended to have plentiful entry points. Standing at the top of the bridge, you have access to see one tile above the upload computers. As mentioned above, I'm open to see how the turrets play out, but it'll require actual play testing.

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-Xenobio cells have no manual entry, forcing you to use the consoles.

Everyone already does. There's no legitimate reason to use the manual disposals or entrances anymore, especially since xenobiology has a ten_k apc and the computers are vastly superior.
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-The spider in vault looks primed to destroy very important machines like the ore silo.

Environment smash=0, it's also just sergeant araneus from metastation.
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-I think there should be a mob guarding the maint recharger above the chapel. Rechargers aren't supposed to be very accessible to the public except in a select few cases (holodeck, firing range). There's also free armor. Not really a fan.

While it is true rechargers are generally intended to be more secure, arrivals/departures is combined, thus their rechargers are more bulked together. I think it'd be interesting to see how it plays out. A free armor vest isn't going to stop much of anyone from dying.
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-Not sure why you thought it was a good idea to put a chicken in a depressurized room like toxins mix chamber

The chicken's name is Kentucky and it's description is "A Timeless Classic" in a room that gets lit on fire. You're supposed to laugh.
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-I feel like the rage cage could use different mobs. Something that won't get shocked or break any of the grilles. Otherwise they'll just destroy the rage cage the moment someone enters.

Environment smash=0. The rage cage doesn't start out hooked up so it won't shock them. You only need two pieces of cable to hook it up.

I'm always happy to hear feedback, but a lot of these comments seemed grounded in a lack of experience or knowledge of the map than actual insightful tips. When regarding the security of the map, it's intentionally dumbed down in part to emphasize the accessibility the map presents in its liberal use of doors, and as I personally believe r_walls aren't an enjoyable mechanic to interact with. Evidently there are some areas in which they're important, but I think we've set a trend in making things over-secure that I'd personally like to see toned down.

I'll definitely consider some of the turret placements, but I'd like to see how it plays out first.
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Re: Kilo Station

Postby Karp » Sat May 04, 2019 7:23 am #492131

tl;dr below if you dont care about the ai core part and just wanna see me blog about a fix to the permabrig

yakumo you cant break asteroid tiles without a pickaxe or explosive so there are only three points of entry from space without one and limited ways to break open asteroid turf if you can't get to the mining area or aren't a miner. It's the tradeoff for being so guarded from space.

the brig cells all have 2 normal walls max blocking them from space and all of the perma cells have r-walls, I do agree that perma is easy to break out of if you can break a window but perma on all maps is pretty easy to escape by design. One thing though is that if you do hit a shocked grille with a glass shard you'll take 30 damage breaking it so you'll take at least 60 damage breaking out ignoring space damage which can kill you.

that also ignores the fact that re-entering the station is harder on this map as breaking out is impossible without actually having a smuggled in weapon or pre-prepared, you can't break light tubes without a force weapon and unless a light tube spawns broken you have no force weapons to break out. You can't break light tubes with your prison garb or a book.


to sum it all up and also give a tl;dr on the important stuff:
Okand should probably add a sustenance vendor or dessicated candycorns to the permabrig cells as sustenance vendors can vend dessicated candycorns which have 1 force. You need one force at a minimum to break out from perma without pre-planning and sabotaging the permabrig area due to the fact that light tubes and windows need at least 1 force to be damaged/broken.

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Re: Kilo Station

Postby Farquaar » Sat May 04, 2019 8:21 am #492137

I really like the way the diner looks. It’s so retro

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Re: Kilo Station

Postby Yakumo_Chen » Sat May 04, 2019 9:24 am #492144

I'm always happy to hear feedback, but a lot of these comments seemed grounded in a lack of experience or knowledge of the map than actual insightful tips.
well, yes, I was judging things entirely based off the image you posted in OP, sorry. Thanks for refuting the points though.
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Re: Kilo Station

Postby MMMiracles » Sat May 04, 2019 1:03 pm #492153

Future reference for full-map screenshots: SpacemanDMM. It's the same tool used by the mapdiff bot and I don't remember it being difficult to set up. Stitching map images together can be a real pain in the ass.

In general I like the compact/coziness of the map and I don't have any immediate issues with department layout. I would suggest lowering the external kPA threshold and output rate on those gas miners if you haven't already, since I did similar on Donut to prevent their leaks from being too destructive.

The solar panels are gonna be considered obstructed by the mineral turfs, since it checks for dense turfs when figuring out whether the panel can 'see' the sun or not. Cool design, but the outer walls gotta go.

As for visual clarity, the map almost looks... noisy? Like the floor patterns especially with high contrasts between the checkered pattern and being so much of it clumped together it starts to become a bit too much for my taste. I totally get doing it for segments like hallways where they're a bit more barren than a department but I don't think every room needs their own unique floor pattern with contrasting colors.
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Re: Kilo Station

Postby FloranOtten » Sat May 04, 2019 3:17 pm #492158

I have two big problems with the map;

1. AI upload. A traitor with a toolbox can toolbox 3 windows and 1 directional window and subvert the AI real easy. Turrets can't reach and there isn't space to deter it.

2. The warning stripes. Did NT decide that the station was a deathtrap, and thus just papered the walls with danger signs to prevent lawsuits? The amount of warnings is honestly distracting. Sure, some rooms require it but do the tables in primary tool storage really need a danger sign?

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Re: Kilo Station

Postby Jimmius » Sat May 04, 2019 5:04 pm #492167

so this is what the cool shuttles were for. a cool station. now it all makes sense

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Re: Kilo Station

Postby FloranOtten » Sat May 04, 2019 5:09 pm #492169

Jimmius wrote:so this is what the cool shuttles were for. a cool station. now it all makes sense


Called it

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Okand37
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Re: Kilo Station

Postby Okand37 » Sat May 04, 2019 7:59 pm #492190

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Future reference for full-map screenshots: [url=https://github.com/SpaceManiac/SpacemanDMM]SpacemanDMM[/url]. It's the same tool used by the mapdiff bot and I don't remember it being difficult to set up. Stitching map images together can be a real pain in the ass.

I've been looking for this, thanks!

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In general I like the compact/coziness of the map and I don't have any immediate issues with department layout. I would suggest lowering the external kPA threshold and output rate on those gas miners if you haven't already, since I did similar on Donut to prevent their leaks from being too destructive.

Glad to hear you like most of it. I'll definitely be updating the miners, but I've also mused with the idea of having "Emergency Vents" for the CO2, Plasma, and N2O chambers that can quickly vent the chamber if things go south.

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The solar panels are gonna be considered obstructed by the mineral turfs, since it checks for dense turfs when figuring out whether the panel can 'see' the sun or not. Cool design, but the outer walls gotta go.

Amusingly a point often brought up. I took the inspiration from asteroidstation, and I've tested them numerous times ingame and they seem to be generating power still. Either the space tiles are working, they're ignoring the asteroid turf, or solar code is broken entirely, but they seem to be working.

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As for visual clarity, the map almost looks... noisy? Like the floor patterns especially with high contrasts between the checkered pattern and being so much of it clumped together it starts to become a bit too much for my taste. I totally get doing it for segments like hallways where they're a bit more barren than a department but I don't think every room needs their own unique floor pattern with contrasting colors.

Code: Select all
2. The warning stripes. Did NT decide that the station was a deathtrap, and thus just papered the walls with danger signs to prevent lawsuits? The amount of warnings is honestly distracting. Sure, some rooms require it but do the tables in primary tool storage really need a danger sign?

I went ahead and bundled these two messages together as they are similar: Noisy is what I do boss. I enjoy the intricacy and detail personally, though I understand that's not for everyone. I do think it helps to combine with the rest of the map to give it a very unique vibe, however. I primarily use them for segmenting colours, but I enjoy the contrast they give as there's no other "full border" type decal as of now. I'd be more than willing to use another type of full border if we had them, but we don't.

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1. AI upload. A traitor with a toolbox can toolbox 3 windows and 1 directional window and subvert the AI real easy. Turrets can't reach and there isn't space to deter it.

The windows are shocked, so they're going to either need to get some gloves for the windows or deconstruct some R_Walls. I debated over adding shutters to the windows like on Delta Station, but I'm not sure how much I like the idea. There not being space is intentional however, and part of the reason I'm musing with the idea of the upload being more accessible is because command can be more responsive (ie: they can see into the upload and see the uploader from the bridge, and have a transit access inside.) I'd like to see how this dynamic plays out first, but I'll be willing to change it if it becomes too much of an issue. In addition, It's really easy to just steal the AI upload board from secure storage, so I think this might make fixing the AI more plausible, but we'll see how this turns out!


I'm pretty thrilled that most everyone is liking the map so far and I appreciate all of the kind words and criticism thusfar. I'd like to address some of the feedback and how it's being responded to:
1. The Armoury:
Although I'd like to keep the soft-walls on the interior side of the HoS' office to the armoury to see how it plays out, it was brought to my attention the door from the HoS' office into the armoury might make raiding it too easy. My proposed remedy is switching the front shutters to the side door so you have to get through the walls unless you have an electromagnetic scrambler. I'm personally curious how the dynamic of the soft-walls in the HoS' office exterior and interior will play out, but I'm willing to listen to further suggestions and ideas. Here's a before/after comparison:
Spoiler:
Image

2. Prison Cells:
One of the prison cells in the top left corner had reinforced walls instead of soft walls. While the original intention was to prevent people from breaking people out of the cell through maintenance, I've opted to try replacing it with a reinforced and shocked window in accordance with the rest of the cells:
Spoiler:
Image


3. Permanent Cells:
I've opted to replace the library book console with a paper bin, pen, and a prisoner's last meal in the permanent cells. They're just VR sleepers, don't worry!
Spoiler:
Image


4. (Very) Dangerous Atmos Miner Chambers:
Musing off of the possibility of the miners being able to flood the station easier than a simple vacuum chamber, I've decided to install some emergency vent chambers to the most dangerous three. I may end up removing them, or shifting the buttons, but it seemed like an interesting idea at the time.
Spoiler:
Image


5. The AI Upload:
Although minor, I've decided to add some extra grilles outside in the area surrounding it. I don't expect they'll do much to "stop" anyone from breaking in, but they're intended to add a noisy obstacle that gives people time to react.
Spoiler:
Image
Last edited by Okand37 on Sat May 04, 2019 8:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Added "5. The AI Upload:"
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Re: Kilo Station

Postby BeeSting12 » Sat May 04, 2019 8:19 pm #492192

the vr sleepers in perma will be interesting. overall the map design looks p cool, cant wait to play it. @ me when it's test merged so i can try it!
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Re: Kilo Station

Postby Shadowflame909 » Sat May 04, 2019 8:26 pm #492195

>VR sleepers in Perma.

Even more Sold then I originally was.

If you want more creativity.

What if the Security "Transportation" room, had a massdriver?
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Re: Kilo Station

Postby Mickyan » Sat May 04, 2019 8:29 pm #492196

My only pet peeve is the presence of human simplemobs on the station, they're already bad on their own because of how counter-intuitive they are (can't strip them, can't stun them etc.) but at least they're usually relegated to space ruins where they can't be easily confused for regular humans at a glance
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Re: Kilo Station

Postby zero the big boy » Sun May 05, 2019 12:49 am #492211

i love it
my only complaint is there's a severe lack of pugley iv and/or mcgriff
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Re: Kilo Station

Postby knacker48 » Sun May 05, 2019 1:03 am #492214

Okand37 wrote:
Code: Select all
-Xenobio cells have no manual entry, forcing you to use the consoles.

Everyone already does. There's no legitimate reason to use the manual disposals or entrances anymore, especially since xenobiology has a ten_k apc and the computers are vastly superior.


You don't use the manual entrances for feeding slimes, you use them for taking the monkey corpses as a source of blood. Sure you can use your own blood but when you get reproductive slime crossbreed you end up needing a lot of monkey cubes, which you need a lot of blood for.

Also on a personal note I use the 2 space entrances into the pens for crossbreeds, as you can drop one slime in with a monkey and have easy access to it for when you want to use it.

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Re: Kilo Station

Postby kiteme » Sun May 05, 2019 1:04 am #492215

im ready im ready speedmerge now

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Re: Kilo Station

Postby Shadowflame909 » Sun May 05, 2019 1:06 am #492217

knacker48 wrote:
Okand37 wrote:
Code: Select all
-Xenobio cells have no manual entry, forcing you to use the consoles.

Everyone already does. There's no legitimate reason to use the manual disposals or entrances anymore, especially since xenobiology has a ten_k apc and the computers are vastly superior.


You don't use the manual entrances for feeding slimes, you use them for taking the monkey corpses as a source of blood. Sure you can use your own blood but when you get reproductive slime crossbreed you end up needing a lot of monkey cubes, which you need a lot of blood for.

Also on a personal note I use the 2 space entrances into the pens for crossbreeds, as you can drop one slime in with a monkey and have easy access to it for when you want to use it.


To add onto this, you cant upgrade the virtual recycler. But you can upgrade the physical one.

So taking the monkeys out of there, and using them on the physical recycler gives you more bang for your buck.
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Re: Kilo Station

Postby zero the big boy » Sun May 05, 2019 2:42 am #492221

Shadowflame909 wrote:
knacker48 wrote:
Okand37 wrote:
Code: Select all
-Xenobio cells have no manual entry, forcing you to use the consoles.

Everyone already does. There's no legitimate reason to use the manual disposals or entrances anymore, especially since xenobiology has a ten_k apc and the computers are vastly superior.


You don't use the manual entrances for feeding slimes, you use them for taking the monkey corpses as a source of blood. Sure you can use your own blood but when you get reproductive slime crossbreed you end up needing a lot of monkey cubes, which you need a lot of blood for.

Also on a personal note I use the 2 space entrances into the pens for crossbreeds, as you can drop one slime in with a monkey and have easy access to it for when you want to use it.


To add onto this, you cant upgrade the virtual recycler. But you can upgrade the physical one.

So taking the monkeys out of there, and using them on the physical recycler gives you more bang for your buck.


physical recycler is linked with the virtual recycler now (it wasn't like this before) and also to add further onto this if a camera breaks you need to deconstruct an rwindow to repair it
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Re: Kilo Station

Postby Okand37 » Sun May 05, 2019 3:06 am #492222

Code: Select all
My only pet peeve is the presence of human simplemobs on the station, they're already bad on their own because of how counter-intuitive they are (can't strip them, can't stun them etc.) but at least they're usually relegated to space ruins where they can't be easily confused for regular humans at a glance

Personally I don't really find this as a negative aspect, and find it fun to punch them. However, If it ends up becoming a big issue it's possible to find replacements for them!

Code: Select all
i love it
my only complaint is there's a severe lack of pugley iv and/or mcgriff

Pugley IV coming to a station near you! If you have any places you might suggesting putting him (along with a bed) I'd be more than happy to ship a pug onto the station!

Code: Select all
You don't use the manual entrances for feeding slimes, you use them for taking the monkey corpses as a source of blood. Sure you can use your own blood but when you get reproductive slime crossbreed you end up needing a lot of monkey cubes, which you need a lot of blood for.
Also on a personal note I use the 2 space entrances into the pens for crossbreeds, as you can drop one slime in with a monkey and have easy access to it for when you want to use it.[/quote]

To add onto this, you cant upgrade the virtual recycler. But you can upgrade the physical one.
So taking the monkeys out of there, and using them on the physical recycler gives you more bang for your buck.

My comment was mainly aimed at the manual disposals system, but I think it may have been to hasty regarding the doors. I can see the use in being able to pull the bodies out manually for blood harvesting or recycling, as I was under the impression you could pick up the monkeys with the computer system and/or upgrade them to upgrade their recycling ability. I've adjusted xenobiology slightly to reflect some of the desired changes. Some of the tables and equipment has been moved around, but the room has the same contents as before.
Spoiler:
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Re: Kilo Station

Postby Farquaar » Sun May 05, 2019 4:20 am #492224

I forgot to mention this, but-
Thank you for making the chapel with an odd-numbered width. So many chapels are an even number of tiles across, and it makes it so impossible to stand in front of a congregation in a way that doesn't look weird and asymmetrical.

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Re: Kilo Station

Postby Okand37 » Sun May 05, 2019 5:01 am #492229

Farquaar wrote:I forgot to mention this, but-
Thank you for making the chapel with an odd-numbered width. So many chapels are an even number of tiles across, and it makes it so impossible to stand in front of a congregation in a way that doesn't look weird and asymmetrical.

Remodeling the chapel was one of my biggest priorities. It's such a neat, RP-heavy role that often gets shoved out of way and is afflicted with bad-congregation syndrome! It shares the morgue with medical so the chaplain can do their duty of dealing with corpses, and has an apiary if you want a side project of gardening to grow things or towercaps for gimmicks or getting stung by bees!
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Re: Kilo Station

Postby FloranOtten » Sun May 05, 2019 2:19 pm #492248

Why does brig have a view of the toilets? Granted, they have shutters (I think that's what that button is, anyhow) but why even have windows in the toilets?

Why do the showers have windows into medbay? They don't have shutters, either. A shit and shower with a view?

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Re: Kilo Station

Postby Qbmax32 » Sun May 05, 2019 2:59 pm #492251

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Re: Kilo Station

Postby Atlanta-Ned » Sun May 05, 2019 4:49 pm #492258

Emergency release doors on the atmos tanks seems like a great way for an enterprising atmos tech to preemptively vent the plasma just in case the AI is malf. Our atmos logs are good enough to prevent that on other stations, but it's a lil' harder here since its a button + blast door.
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Re: Kilo Station

Postby NoxVS » Sun May 05, 2019 6:55 pm #492275

I have no clue how this could be fixed but IMO the Gateway really shouldn't be in maint and out of the way. Its more difficult to access if an admin does a gateway event and if swarmers spawn you would have no time to respond before its already escaped into the vents and presses the round end button. Although I suppose the second point is more a problem with swarmers
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Re: Kilo Station

Postby Shadowflame909 » Sun May 05, 2019 6:57 pm #492276

Separate it from the station and make it in space? Like the bomb center?
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Re: Kilo Station

Postby NoxVS » Sun May 05, 2019 7:39 pm #492278

Shadowflame909 wrote:Separate it from the station and make it in space? Like the bomb center?

I don't think that would solve the problem of the gateway being the spawn point of a round ending antag that needs to be killed immediately and how its difficult for most of the station to access it on the occasion that an admin has an away mission event or something
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Re: Kilo Station

Postby Okand37 » Sun May 05, 2019 7:41 pm #492279

Code: Select all
Why does brig have a view of the toilets? Granted, they have shutters (I think that's what that button is, anyhow) but why even have windows in the toilets?
Why do the showers have windows into medbay? They don't have shutters, either. A shit and shower with a view?

The toilet units, dormitories, and showers are all intended to have windows with shutters so the windows can be broken for access ways, but the shutters can be closed for privacy. The shower units not having shutters is an oversight, however. Thanks for pointing it out for me!

Code: Select all
Emergency release doors on the atmos tanks seems like a great way for an enterprising atmos tech to preemptively vent the plasma just in case the AI is malf. Our atmos logs are good enough to prevent that on other stations, but it's a lil' harder here since its a button + blast door.

Unlike canisters in the atmospherics chambers, the gas miners rapidly produce their chosen type of gas. Amusingly enough, testing it with the reduced copies from Donut Station, it looks like even editing it to three vents isn't enough to stop the inevitable--but it does slow it down from what I'm seeing, which is the intended purpose. I would wager it's less investigation if all you have to look at is a button and the fingerprints variable. It's possible I'll need to bring down the production of the gas miners even lower but at the moment it does nothing to preemptively stop a plasma flood.

Code: Select all
I have no clue how this could be fixed but IMO the Gateway really shouldn't be in maint and out of the way. Its more difficult to access if an admin does a gateway event and if swarmers spawn you would have no time to respond before its already escaped into the vents and presses the round end button. Although I suppose the second point is more a problem with swarmers

As much as I love the gateway, disabling it and gateway missions in the config seriously hampered its significance on the station. As a result, I don't think it deserves to take up space in a more prominent and usable section of the station, so I've moved it to maintenance nearby medical. In terms of swarmers, I could try moving the vents directly outside of the room, but I'm not sure if they'd be able to get out of the room then. If you have any suggestions on how I could deal with the swarmer issue, I'd be happy to hear them!

--Actually, hold that thought, I think I have an idea of where to put it.

1. The Gateway:
I originally made the gateway in maintenance before I had an idea of how much space the rest of maintenance would have near the fore of the station with telecomms and science. Since there's just enough room to put it in unawkwardly while shaving off one tile on the left side, I've decided to move the gateway nearby telecommunications and robotics. I've decided to swap the small electrical room's place with the gateway as there infact is room for it around the center ring. Happy ending, hooray!
Spoiler:
Image
Last edited by Okand37 on Sun May 05, 2019 8:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Includes updated gateway.
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Re: Kilo Station

Postby Denton » Sun May 05, 2019 10:20 pm #492298

I'm really excited to see how this map will turn out once it's testmerged.

I noticed one thing:
The mining shuttle could use some grilles in front of it, else it will be smashed by bomb test site debris every single round.

Spoiler:
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Re: Kilo Station

Postby Okand37 » Sun May 05, 2019 10:44 pm #492303

Code: Select all
I noticed one thing:
The mining shuttle could use some grilles in front of it, else it will be smashed by bomb test site debris every single round.

Firstly, glad to hear you like it! Secondly, good eye on noticing that! I've brought some grilles down to help add a bit of padding for cargo and its shuttles, and staggered a few along the lattice connecting to toxins.
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Re: Kilo Station

Postby FloranOtten » Sun May 05, 2019 10:54 pm #492305

Do the mass drivers (both chapel and Toxins) have tiny fans installed? Would suck to have maint rooms randomly be depressurized because toxins launched a bomb.

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Re: Kilo Station

Postby Okand37 » Sun May 05, 2019 11:02 pm #492307

Code: Select all
Do the mass drivers (both chapel and Toxins) have tiny fans installed? Would suck to have maint rooms randomly be depressurized because toxins launched a bomb.

They don't have tiny fans, but do have regular vents and will fill back up with air rather quickly due to the size of the rooms. The chaplain mass driver features only one vent in the picture, but has recently been upgraded to two. The toxin mass driver does infact have two however. I've tried moving away from using tiny fans where not necessary and replacing them with regular vents where applicable.
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Re: Kilo Station

Postby PKPenguin321 » Mon May 06, 2019 12:41 am #492316

Okand37 wrote:I've tried moving away from using tiny fans where not necessary and replacing them with regular vents where applicable.

nice
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Re: Kilo Station

Postby legoscape » Tue May 07, 2019 12:12 pm #492545

The work put into Kilostation looks astounding. It takes all the departments and makes them look and crummy backwater station that set somewhere off in a distant system in space. It's non-asymmetric look is something I've personally been looking for in a map for a long time. The detail of each room makes it totally unique. Maintenance is large and messy and filled with enemy mobs; A real occupational hazard. The general vibe of this station makes me happy and I would love to play it.

PS. Do you have an estimate when Kilostation be test merged?

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Re: Kilo Station

Postby FloranOtten » Tue May 07, 2019 1:41 pm #492555

How do people get out of the gulag? Usually, they get dumped out in a public hall, or a room with public access. If I recall correctly, only Donut has the gulag prisoners end up in brig, and that's in Brig Proper, so they can sit in front of the main doors until a security officer inevitably passes by. This Gulag room is off to the side in a place few travel outside of gathering additional sec equipment at roundstart. How many people are going to be stuck screaming over comms for release from their improvised brig?

On the topic of Gulag, why is it so far removed from the main brig? The two routes to gulag someone is either going through two equipment rooms or through the public hallway. It seems like it was placed wherever it could fit. Maybe move the console to brig proper?

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Re: Kilo Station

Postby Okand37 » Tue May 07, 2019 8:03 pm #492602

Code: Select all
The work put into Kilostation looks astounding. It takes all the departments and makes them look and crummy backwater station that set somewhere off in a distant system in space. It's non-asymmetric look is something I've personally been looking for in a map for a long time. The detail of each room makes it totally unique. Maintenance is large and messy and filled with enemy mobs; A real occupational hazard. The general vibe of this station makes me happy and I would love to play it.

PS. Do you have an estimate when Kilostation be test merged?

I'm glad to hear you're liking it so far! I went for a much more lived in, second-rate "occupational hazard" approach and I'm happy to hear the style is giving you the intended impression! In terms of testmerging or PRing, I'm waiting for my shuttles PRto be finished up as it contains some relevant duplicate files that would also be PRed with Kilo Station. As soon as we're finished there, I'll be preparing the good ole' Kilo Station PR!

Code: Select all
How do people get out of the gulag? Usually, they get dumped out in a public hall, or a room with public access. If I recall correctly, only Donut has the gulag prisoners end up in brig, and that's in Brig Proper, so they can sit in front of the main doors until a security officer inevitably passes by. This Gulag room is off to the side in a place few travel outside of gathering additional sec equipment at roundstart. How many people are going to be stuck screaming over comms for release from their improvised brig?

Allow me to introduce you to my handy friend effect/mapping_helpers/airlock/unres. See those white lights coming from the interior side of the gulag doors, or the two main medical doors? These allow players to open the door as if they had access so long as they're opening it from this side. In the past, we used to use buttons to allow the players to open the door to get themselves out, in the case of maps such as boxstation or deltastation before this feature was introduced.

Code: Select all
On the topic of Gulag, why is it so far removed from the main brig? The two routes to gulag someone is either going through two equipment rooms or through the public hallway. It seems like it was placed wherever it could fit. Maybe move the console to brig proper?

May I interest you in taking a look at boxstation, deltastation, and other previous maps that have used this more "remote" style of placing the gulag? I personally prefer the gulag being more out of the way, as it allows you to process prisoners without interruptions from the main hall, and you don't have to worry about them trying to run away if you're in a more confined area. In addition, the positioning of the gulag allows it to serve as another back door into security.
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