/tg/Station 13

Bottom post of the previous page:

Leaving a tldr of what I wrote in the PR here so you can keep track

-consider not randomly spawning rainbow slimes
-3 monkey boxes is the most of any map (?)

Timonk wrote: ↑Tue May 02, 2023 1:21 am Leaving a tldr of what I wrote in the PR here so you can keep track

-consider not randomly spawning rainbow slimes
-3 monkey boxes is the most of any map (?)

Top map be a good call, maybe a random T1 slime? I don't have an issue with the extra box.

Joy. So the way slimes are randomly spawned it'll mean that a proper slime spawner may be out of question. I'm not sure what'll be allowed within an overall fix PR

What other good way could I try to push this alternate playstyle just via mapping?

The tourism/restaurant bots for the Bar and Kitchen are missing, that includes the seating indicator.

Cheshify wrote: ↑Tue May 02, 2023 5:33 am What other good way could I try to push this alternate playstyle just via mapping?

I think the random slime spawn(s) is a great idea. If the goal is to have xenobiologists come, make their desired slimes, and then leave and interact, the biggest hurdle is definitely getting the late-tier slimes. If they have t2 or even t3s unlocked earlier it'll probably shave off a solid 10 minutes of xenobio grinding. It could be neat to make it randomized, since there are so many slimes it's unlikely the job is just done for them, although the downside being the small chance it happens to be an adamantine or oil slime could impact the round pretty heavily.

sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Tue May 02, 2023 4:44 pm

Cheshify wrote: ↑Tue May 02, 2023 5:33 am What other good way could I try to push this alternate playstyle just via mapping?

I think the random slime spawn(s) is a great idea. If the goal is to have xenobiologists come, make their desired slimes, and then leave and interact, the biggest hurdle is definitely getting the late-tier slimes. If they have t2 or even t3s unlocked earlier it'll probably shave off a solid 10 minutes of xenobio grinding. It could be neat to make it randomized, since there are so many slimes it's unlikely the job is just done for them, although the downside being the small chance it happens to be an adamantine or oil slime could impact the round pretty heavily.

Yeah, the way the code is currently laid out makes it harder than just making a slime with a random chance of being a T1 slime, I'd need to make a new list of slimes and then pull from that. I don't know if it's something maintainers would glare at me for doing all inside of a "fix" PR.

Nevermind I actually got it working

How do we manage timers on prisoners for Genpop? Is it something to do with their prison I.D?

is the northstar still northstarring?

This table here blocks ID swiping, not sure if intentional but you gotta climb over it to swipe the turrets off.

Couldn't you stand on the cyborg? A temporary fix until I move the table.

Cheshify wrote: ↑Thu May 11, 2023 12:56 am Couldn't you stand on the cyborg? A temporary fix until I move the table.

You can although the table still blocks it from that tile

Yeah, either the table or the panel needs to be moved. I'll take a shot at that as soon as some other things are merged to avoid conflicts on Z4

Another minor thing -- it's a bit hard to tell which direction the stairs are going here, so you're liable to walk into the hole (bottom left tile) while trying to go down em. Would make more sense to flip the orientation of the stairs since most people would be coming from the hall, else maybe put up some rails to prevent walking diagonally into the hole.

I think a guardrail would do the job too, but both would be perfect

Both are good ideas. A few things have been merged and I'll be changing things around soon.

Added a guardrail, moved the console, added a bar door, and was not able to axe the elevator music in a new PR

Alright boys there are a thousand North Star PRs up so this won't be merged in a month but I've gone and reworked medbay.
Here's the PR.

Cheshify wrote: ↑Thu May 18, 2023 3:31 pm Added a guardrail, moved the console, added a bar door, and was not able to axe the elevator music in a new PR

looks great, love how it wraps around too

I`m just gonna list off some of the things in comparison to other maps.

The splitting up of research and having the main robotics lab east of medbay is neat but I think it would be alittle annoying for roboticists to walk 40 tiles if they want to use the protolathe/research (or they give up their main room and use the poor one in sci)

Ive looked at the maintenance tunnels alot, one thing i noticed mainly is that there are very few but very large side rooms that tend to dominate the area that they are in, overall its not a very fun map to base in maintenance but thats more for accessibility reasons, later into the round its alot better with quantum pads which definitely do make large maps like this manageable in general

Having limited ttvs on this map while also being a very large map is alittle interesting, scientists have access to 3/5ths of ttvs that they are normally allocated to so it definitely does effect their ability to "impact" the station.


Eva storage is lacking in matts like plasteel

circuit room lacks a brain chamber (but thats okay tram had 2 circuit labs for an eternity)

last i checked, morgue is not public hallway OR maintenance accessible unlike most other maps that have an alternative way in and out for people to sneak in.

This seems to be the only map ive seen that doesnt have armory next to the exterior of the station and instead maintenance tunnels loosely wrap around it.

Oh my god mines in maintenance but its nowhere near as bad as the simple mobs on kilo or birdshot that can mow you down quickly, rather its just a small health toll.

MooCow12 wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 4:37 am I`m just gonna list off some of the things in comparison to other maps.

Alright, I don't know if these are criticisms, positives, or whatever. Let's talk through these.

The splitting up of research and having the main robotics lab east of medbay is neat but I think it would be alittle annoying for roboticists to walk 40 tiles if they want to use the protolathe/research (or they give up their main room and use the poor one in sci)

The intent was for robotics to use design disks to upload what they needed from sci to their autolathe. However, just before the map was merged this feature was removed. I do not want sci and robotics to be merged into one, as roboticists have significantly increased access to the AI SAT. Hey, maybe you can set up quantum pads mid-shift.

Ive looked at the maintenance tunnels alot, one thing i noticed mainly is that there are very few but very large side rooms that tend to dominate the area that they are in, overall its not a very fun map to base in maintenance but thats more for accessibility reasons, later into the round its alot better with quantum pads which definitely do make large maps like this manageable in general

I personally see this as a positive. The large side rooms are very intentional, the ship is supposed to feel like it has some previous history and a lot of the maintenance rooms were designed to be fully functional areas before they were ruined by time or disaster.

Having limited ttvs on this map while also being a very large map is alittle interesting, scientists have access to 3/5ths of ttvs that they are normally allocated to so it definitely does effect their ability to "impact" the station.

Whoops I guess. I think I undershot how many TTVs are in ordnance as a standard, or the standard changed during the long development process. If someone wants to add more, that's fine.

Eva storage is lacking in matts like plasteel

Eh, there are plenty of mats scattered around the ship, in maint, etc. If someone really cared and wanted to add 20, that'd be fine?

circuit room lacks a brain chamber (but thats okay tram had 2 circuit labs for an eternity)

I think this is an actual oversight, anyone's up to add one in there, and even some extra goodies for circuit gamers.

last i checked, morgue is not public hallway OR maintenance accessible unlike most other maps that have an alternative way in and out for people to sneak in.

You would be incorrect. With the new medbay, morgue has a maintenance path that people with morgue access can take. Just head to the maint entrance to the aft of medbay from the hall and follow the lights.

This seems to be the only map ive seen that doesnt have armory next to the exterior of the station and instead maintenance tunnels loosely wrap around it.

I'm really sorry but I don't know what to say. Okay? Armory doesn't need to be on the exterior. It has it's own defenses and I think the alternate design can lead to people trying new things/security needing to find new ways to handle attackers.

Oh my god mines in maintenance but its nowhere near as bad as the simple mobs on kilo or birdshot that can mow you down quickly, rather its just a small health toll.

I promise you I will find ways to make maint more dangerous. People are getting too used to it. If someone can think of cool ways to hurt people that isn't lame-ass mobs or more grilles, please contact me. Sadly, with the rework of medbay we had to lose a whole single mine.

Overall, I appreciate the feedback being put in such a nice and polite post. With the nature of making a huge map, things tend to be missing. The North Star is not and never will be designed to be the standard map. I think non-traditional setups for maps will always be more interesting than making another metastation, and I hope you're enjoying it!

i like the medbay update

One thing I find myself and others struggling with on Northstar is the Antag-Security balance.

Obviously the game isn't about winning, and different stations will favour different groups, but the jump in difficulty and tedium for security from a station like Delta/icebox to Northstar feels massive.

Two of the coolest aspects of Northstar, its size and maint design have made policing the station, even with a full security team (which rarely happens) extremely stressful and difficult. Trying to find a dead officer, or a runaway player is a task that requires many officers to do in any reasonable time frame. This has changed the way Security plays to almost always reactive. Which makes antags like blob, cult and heretic extremely strong. One of the options to mitigate the issues with navigation is the A.I, but this only occurs if the A.I is a validhunter or playing as sec, behaviours frowned upon by the community as a whole.

I don't think this is necessarily the fault of Northstar's Design, more so that Security's tools, population and general skill level cannot effectively handle a map like Northstar, to the point that people do not play security when northstar comes around, compounding the issue of low pop Security.

Solutions:

Map-side I don't think there are many options, maybe adding Security elevators? but I don't think it would be worth it.

I think the best way to address it might be loadout specific on Northstar. Options could be Deathgasp implants and/or Crew Pinpointers (these would only work on the correct Z-level anyway) or lastly just expand Sec access on Northstar so they can access departments. These primarily address travel tedium, improve co-ordination or make Sec less reliant on a validhunting A.I to play on Northstar.

I'm not sure if Security needs a huge buff, but I do think NorthSec needs some tweaks and experimenting for it to be not so intimidating for Sec mains.

I've played security on the NS from time to time, and I have seen that security play is heavily reactive since you can't cover all the ground possible. I have two suggestions, one pretty reasonable one rather intimidating.

Reasonable: security is given better access to better tracking tools (pinpointers, crew monitors)

Intimidating: sec might genuinely benefit from wound/bleed weapons, or something in a similar style. The ability to wound an antag and then either track the blood trail or force a disengagement could help with map size if the individual officer is stronger.

Also another massive skill issue is that people refuse to learn nauticals. You should KNOW where 1st deck fore port maint is.

There are also captain's aids that show the player nautical directions which could encourage more familiarity with that. I know my starboard from my port but I always forget my aft stern bow stuff.

Lacran wrote: ↑Wed Jul 12, 2023 10:20 am There are also captain's aids that show the player nautical directions which could encourage more familiarity with that. I know my starboard from my port but I always forget my aft stern bow stuff.

Those don't WORK ON THE NORTH STAR. Aft is right, fore is left, port is down and starboard is up

Oh god you're right