/tg/Station 13

Thought I'd share some thoughts on map design, since I've been viewing a few new map ideas recently that played with pop extremes (skeleton crew).
Future maps should be designed a lot more stacked.
A lot of conflict in this game seems non-locationally relevant to others, and so only validhunters and those nearby really deal with conflict because the rest have no relation to it. Since we originally did not have multi-z, we were forced to make maps that sprawled outwards, but it seems that we can dramatically increase the proximity of players generally with the same space by building more vertically.

Example:



Our current multi-z roster
* Icebox kinda fails at stacking, because it doesn't use the multi-z to clump, rather to just have more space. And it makes sense too, because it was a multi-z conversion on a map designed to be horizontally sprawled.
* Tramstation would be a great delta replacement and handles expansiveness well, stacking and making the horizontality a distinct choice while running all the players through the upper and lower tunnels so it doesn't actually spread players as far apart as they would be normally.
I really want to see a skeleton pop map tested that implements the stack design, it would be really interesting to see how you could maximize player proximity with the amount of space the map still needs.

Obviously, this is a gross simplification of a round's events, many motivations, weird situations and edge cases cause things to happen. It's the beauty of our game. But a lot of potential is wasted by non-vertical design pushing areas further apart.

although this may not seem the case now, Tram and IceBox were both quite confusing to navigate when they first came out. I still get shellshocked whenever I try and go to another repository's multi-z map and just get COMPLETELY lost, it's quite odd. i get that eventually people will learn the layout of a map (they always do), but man it's a much higher hurdle to clear on the player's aspect- let alone a mapper's aspect when they have to navigate the complexities of creating a multi-z map. This includes, and is not limited to, the following:

- Having to figure out JSON configuration for cross-linkages
- Having to figure out multi-Z Atmos
- Having to figure out multi-Z Disposals
- Having to figure out multi-Z Wiring/Power
- Having to figure out multi-Z lighting
- Multi-Z area naming
- Elevators (they're easier now at least)

It might seem simple to learn and "get", but if you look on the issue tracker milestone for either IceBox or Tram on the GitHub, you'll see a constant number of regressions and fixes surrounding just how overly complexed things do get. It's a battle that not many are aware of. I think it's a good idea to have such "vertical events" and have things matter more when events occur up-and-down a station... but it's very important to consider the fact that mapping a station from scratch is the hardest thing you can do. It just increases the barrier to adding a map when you have a lot more technical complexities over the single-z flatter maps.

this is exactly why the supermatter delam is such dogshit always because engineering is always in some fuck off part of the map that nobody cares about

Mothblocks wrote: ↑Fri Jan 27, 2023 2:32 am this is exactly why the supermatter delam is such dogshit always because engineering is always in some fuck off part of the map that nobody cares about

fortunately tram's medbay is right on top of the supermatter, but there is sadly no multi-z explosions.

(also i egged melbert into putting xenobiology right next to the supermatter on Delta. that was done intentionally)

The more compact maps are the harder it is for people to get away with crimes. On highpop or a compact map like kilo, it can be nearly impossible to try and kill someone without having 2 or 3 people as witnesses and another 4 within earshot.

In the cases of things like bombings, fires, and explosions evildoers will benefit much more from more people being effected.

I think that ideally a map would have a good blend of both, with plenty of places for both loud and stealth antags to shine.

Add multi-z explosions please. Multi-z maps just don't feel right without it, especially with how tram-med is directly above supermatter and it never causes any trouble.

After the freeze I will make tesla/singuloth capable of z travelling (hopefully without letting them traverse to centcomm like last time I made something capable of z travelling)

I don't entirely agree on making maps compact and stacked.

While you ARE adding vertical interaction, you don't get to see any of it within the department.

Tram for example - Medbay is still 1z. Engineering is still 1z. Those departments would function identically if they were placed on a 1z map than now.
The only time you create vertical interaction is if the department gets bombed. Then you're in medbay and you fall right into the gravity generator and it's badass.

Then compare to Icebox, its medbay is 2z, you have to go up or down to access parts of it. It wouldn't be the same if mapped onto 1z. Can it be better? Definitely, because of Icebox's history as a conversion.

In my PERSONAL opinion, there needs to be a balance of the two.
It's cool to have some departments fall right into others, but it's also cool to have stuff like balconies, stairs, etc.
Look at this atmos from a forbidden codebase. This is AWESOME.



Imagine a medbay where the CMO office has a balcony that overlooks the treatment center.



Edit / this creates even further interaction like being able to break into places when gravity goes out... Or letting Atrocinator modsuit users have increased mobility! I think a lot of these interactions go completely un-used in stacked up designs.

You are not killing birdboat.

Please fix and polish multi-z first

give me multi-z explosions

explosions feel lamer on multi-z solely because you can be directly above a maxcap and have literally no idea anything happened if comms are off