/tg/Station 13

Bottom post of the previous page:

Seems fine to me, didn't quite like the 45 min limit.

Seems a bit weird to nerf toxins on the map that is least impacted by bombs. Not only is each department completely separate from each other but bombs on this map even have the potential to not depressurize an area at all, if placed sufficiently far enough away from the edge of an asteroid.

Cy294 wrote:Seems a bit weird to nerf toxins on the map that is least impacted by bombs. Not only is each department completely separate from each other but bombs on this map even have the potential to not depressurize an area at all, if placed sufficiently far enough away from the edge of an asteroid.

can't they, like, blow out the floor?

If anything, toxins needs a time variable on this considering a few bombs can completely cripple movement throughout the station and isolate departments entirely.

DemonFiren wrote:

Cy294 wrote:Seems a bit weird to nerf toxins on the map that is least impacted by bombs. Not only is each department completely separate from each other but bombs on this map even have the potential to not depressurize an area at all, if placed sufficiently far enough away from the edge of an asteroid.

can't they, like, blow out the floor?

I had bridges bombed in order to isolate Science during a Nations round. The bombs were not as effective on the northern Science bridge as I had hoped - Much of the R-flooring outside the devastation range survived, and the bombs damaged the connecting hallway, leading to air leakage, but due to the bridge being on asteroid turf, intruders still had solid walking ground and were able to get through by releasing the nearby air tank and putting up a few barriers.

The bridges use R-floors, so they stand up very well to heavy and light explosions, so it is much easier to take out the windows and grilles than it is to try and damage the flooring. Taking out a bridge entirely requires a large bomb (toxins, syndiebomb, 4-beaker crafted bomb). Do not bother with the bridges over asteroid turf though, you cannot expose those ones to space.

Currently working on some stuff, one of which includes an actual shuttle that isn't just boxstation's.
Other stuff includes some work on department layouts, some reworking of non-maintenance areas people seem to confuse with maintenance, and attempt at some clutter stuff to help with the 'empty' feeling people seem to have issue with.

I know its obviously WIP but with a station designed for highpop, having a shuttle less capacious than delta is kind of a sin.

Finding the balance between capacity and not turning the shuttle into a giant flying rectangle is a delicate procedure.

MMMiracles wrote:Finding the balance between capacity and not turning the shuttle into a giant flying rectangle is a delicate procedure.

How about department compartments? No access levels except for the brig and cockpit, but more of a theme kind of deal.

DemonFiren wrote:

Cy294 wrote:Seems a bit weird to nerf toxins on the map that is least impacted by bombs. Not only is each department completely separate from each other but bombs on this map even have the potential to not depressurize an area at all, if placed sufficiently far enough away from the edge of an asteroid.

can't they, like, blow out the floor?

The asteroid floors below the actual metal floors aren't blown up by bombs for some reason.

Cy294 wrote:

DemonFiren wrote:

Cy294 wrote:Seems a bit weird to nerf toxins on the map that is least impacted by bombs. Not only is each department completely separate from each other but bombs on this map even have the potential to not depressurize an area at all, if placed sufficiently far enough away from the edge of an asteroid.

can't they, like, blow out the floor?

The asteroid floors below the actual metal floors aren't blown up by bombs for some reason.

Asteroid turfs don't blow into space because blowing (supposedly) thick chunk of rock out into space would mean the station is actually just built into an extremely thin-but-wide asteroid chunks which is really weird. Also mostly because they're the same turfs used for mining and it'd be weird for those to blow up into space.

On another note, I've added another type of maintenance airlock with a red/yellow stripe pattern as an indicator of a non-maint room meant for stuff like leading to the external airlocks. I've gone through and made sure that every room marked with the standard maintenance door has proper rad immunity and I'm hoping the extra bit of visual indication will be enough to help people from dying to rooms they thought were rad-proof.

EDIT:
Newer shuttle design, holds over 80 people and isn't a giant rectangle (srta). Still working on floor designs, but I like it so far.

• Shuttle brig has a prisoner and an officer section, why should the law have to sit among the petty criminals? Includes teargas, wire cuffs, rechargers, and a pepperspray refiller.
• Medbay is fully stocked. 4 sleepers, full surgery kit, prosethic limb kit, a medibot, and a frickin' cryotube to top it all off. If you're gonna be holding 80+ people in a shuttle, you gotta be equipped to keep them healthy.
• Cargo has multiple mech recharge stations so science/mining can store their big stompy mechs somewhere somewhat safe and charge during the flight.
• Engine section for engineers to pretend to be monitoring the shuttle and some emergency supplies for when the shuttle inevitably get bombed.
• Bathroom section with a borg charger. Nice place to hide and attempt last-second shady stuff, like murdering that target you forgot about.
• Arcade machines to pass the time during the flight.

The cockpit is probably going to a smaller, compact variant of the station's main bridge segment with the captain's spot being the main helm. I plan on also doing a custom white shuttle after this as well.

This map reminds me of my honkhole. All tight and full of shit.

Iatots wrote:I know its obviously WIP but with a station designed for highpop, having a shuttle less capacious than delta is kind of a sin.

MMMiracles wrote:Finding the balance between capacity and not turning the shuttle into a giant flying rectangle is a delicate procedure.

This is something that I had issues with a lot with delta, and I honestly would've fleshed it out more had delta's port not been made into a rectangle, causing the ship to have to squish in.
A few problems with size is comparing it to other stations. If you want to give it a 'pronged' design with the engines, you have to consider that most if not all of the time, it'll crash into parts of other stations if used anywhere else. Though a workaround would be having the core/seating area thicker than the engines and still having them pronged or separate, which probably leaves the ship looking something like a partial-licked double-stick popsicle. Still, it may look better than a flying brick if you want to try giving some shape to it.

Really the primary issue is width versus height when comparing it to other station's docks.

MMMiracles wrote: Newer shuttle design, holds over 80 people and isn't a giant rectangle (srta).

Spoiler:

Something I'd personally suggest is splitting the seats more into columns (with walls/windows inbetween like meta or delta), as it helps 'narrow' down some of the pathways in the main section of the ship for some good old yakkety shuttle sax in the inevitable event chaos breaks loose. Ideally, it can help add some 'cover' to make combat less of a whirl in the vast openness of the current design. Also provides a place to store extinguishers, intercoms, status displays, emergency medical vendors, and other trinkets to make inflight entertainment and style a breeze!

All in all, most importantly, keep up the good work and keep having fun with the project! It is always nice to see people using their creativity and aspirations to make something enjoyable for everyone on the server. Variety is the spice of life! You're doing a great job!

Blob just won a round on cere by virtue of the station being so fucking huge nobody found the blob until it was at 200

[Common] Edward Davies says, "Eva is on engeneering"
[Common] Marisa Kirisame says, "That's just what I want, a station where EVA is in the place most likely to explode"

Have i been wrong about cere's problems so far?

The other station's are made compact on purpose, if we want to have a isolated station we need to blacklist antagonists who are unsuitable for it. If a blob wins on cere IT ENDS THE ROUND. Then we are at a point where we have to make a snowflake modification to the antagonist so it vaguely still fits into the map.

I think the main issue is that the blob gamemode currently only takes into account the amount of cores for its win count instead of also factoring in the amount of valid tiles a station has for taking over, which becomes more of an issue on maps that aren't box-standard (mini, omega, delta, cere).

Yakumo_Chen wrote:[Common] Edward Davies says, "Eva is on engeneering"
[Common] Marisa Kirisame says, "That's just what I want, a station where EVA is in the place most likely to explode"

More entertaining when the engine eventually eats shit, not like the actual blast goes much past the actual asteroid past shattering the windows of the attached bridges.

The Medical and Engineering asteroids are missing quantum pads. A security newscaster for the AI would be nice as well.

MMMiracles wrote:I think the main issue is that the blob gamemode currently only takes into account the amount of cores for its win count instead of also factoring in the amount of valid tiles a station has for taking over, which becomes more of an issue on maps that aren't box-standard (mini, omega, delta, cere).

So it's the blob's fault. I've heard everything.

Just set up some controls to blacklist blob from happening on that map then, and if that gets blocked by maintainers for being a snowflake mode then i guess you have a definite problem with your map being incompatible for the game and the highpop it was made for.

FantasticFwoosh wrote:

MMMiracles wrote:I think the main issue is that the blob gamemode currently only takes into account the amount of cores for its win count instead of also factoring in the amount of valid tiles a station has for taking over, which becomes more of an issue on maps that aren't box-standard (mini, omega, delta, cere).

So it's the blob's fault. I've heard everything.

Just set up some controls to blacklist blob from happening on that map then, and if that gets blocked by maintainers for being a snowflake mode then i guess you have a definite problem with your map being incompatible for the game and the highpop it was made for.

Did you, uh, actually read what I typed?

Yes, and responded that you're blaming how the blob plays.

In your ideal world you'd twist the knife and grudecode blob as so it doesn't interfere with arguements against cere, the fact of the matter is that blob has a set limit of tiles to span across on your large isolated map before it ENDs THE ROUND and changing it for the sake of 1 map will never fly.

Blob doesn't count its cores, it counts it total tiles spanned across to a milestone usually spanning about 300 or 500 before issuing a victory and you've given blob ample amounts of space to build its cores & factories out of view so that people will be responding to a matured & strong blob. Its a absolute disaster.

If you keep twisting my words and motives I'm gonna start wondering why I reply to you seriously.

If you read the blob gamemode the wincount is literally a mixture of the initial number, amount of blob cores, and an additional multiplier. All that'd need to be done is an additional section that accounts in for the current station's amount of viable tiles, probably a percentage of it. It would solve issues with smaller and larger maps taking too long/going too quickly.

Please, actually bother looking at shit you talk about before assuming you're right and accusing me of shit.

You're making this all very personal. It seems i've made a error of judgement on that claim but its still critically making changes on a map per map basis on that regards for a antagonist type that until now has worked fine being universal, out of the effort it takes to make such a change that is going to affect the balance of other maps like metastation or box with similar but still varied amounts of viable tiles to use. The very fact you need teleportation to get around it especially to key places like medbay is really laughable as to the fact that people are demanding more teleportation across this vast map.

On a side note half-effort theats to just ignore my criticism doesn't paint you as being very professional.

Well, when you try to paint me as someone who's going out of their way to blame issues on everything that isn't the map and other shit like potential grudge-coding to circumvent these issues, I'm not going to be nice to you.

That's actually a really nice blob idea, and would definitely help with blob being more adjustable to smaller or bigger maps. While you did mention delta, it did have some pretty bad issues with it being really easy to win due to the maintenance bulk as well as extra-spacey rooms in some areas. Could try coding it or suggesting it to the coders if you haven't already?

I really like what you've done with the station, its nice to have maps that take a more creative and interesting outlook opposed to being the same thing but reorganized! Going off of your latest picture, I would suggest a few minuscule things if you'd like: Obviously not necessary, but I always found firelocks on counters such as the medical chemistry desks that are just 1 tile always looked really nice and could be rather useful for a lockdown of fire-prone areas.

All in all, the map is a beautiful behemoth of bustling intrigue, almost makes me want to map some things for fun! : P
Keep up the great work man!

It would probably be worth compiling a list of things that are hardcoded but should actually be configurable for each map. The blob size thing and the areas shielded from radstorms are just a few examples.

Bombadil wrote:

MMMiracles wrote:If the map is getting played at 30 pop then that's an issue with map rotation, as the map is currently set to only be available on 45+ population.

When i checked who we had like 39 players at roundstart iirc. Make it fifty please

The map rotation checks how many people are online at the end of the previous round, it has no way of knowing how many people will observe (though in my experience it's usually around 20% of total players).

FantasticFwoosh wrote:and changing it for the sake of 1 map will never fly.

False, as long as any such system is not hardcoded and can be configured easily per map we are happy to accept it.

You know what this station needs? A slums area. Completely run-down, ruined furniture, random junk, broken bar and bloodied fighting pit. Complete with wooden doors, broken airlocks and patched up walls. A place where all the scum can go kill eachother, and be the first place Sec searches for fugitives.

Also maybe update the map section of the wiki. I do not see Cere on it at all.

Alex Crimson wrote:You know what this station needs? A slums area. Completely run-down, ruined furniture, random junk, broken bar and bloodied fighting pit. Complete with wooden doors, broken airlocks and patched up walls. A place where all the scum can go kill eachother, and be the first place Sec searches for fugitives.

Also maybe update the map section of the wiki. I do not see Cere on it at all.

A slums doesn't really make sense on this map, the closet thing on here is the half-finished maintence sections.

Thanks for reminding me about the wiki, though. I'll get on that.

Would it be acceptable to have the quantum pads preset to take you in a clockwork fashion (or criss-cross across the station)? They're pretty cool and I'd love to see them used more, especially since I don't think anyone realizes what they do.

I've noticed a lot of complaints on the 'empty space' aspect of the map. Yeah, big station is one thing but if you don't do shit with the extra space then all you got is a stretched out station, as some people have decently put it. This is mostly on my own fault when it came to assigning space for department rooms and forgetting some things when building a department, leading to some odd crampness in what should of been a nice, open spacing for workflow and general shenanigans. Taking all this into thought, I've decided to do something insane and start revamping most of the departments entirely.

First up, security! Lobby/Main Hall Section
Lobby entrance stays mostly the same, connects into the main hall that goes to all the rooms. All rooms that you should be able to access after directly entering the brig is available and seen, including the mini-medbay they have. Warden has been moved to this section more in-line with other maps and makes him more of a gatekeeper between the main chunk of security and the holding cells that go beyond the airlock section. To counter-act this new-found isolation from the prisoners, he'll have a cell monitor along with his usual security monitor so he can easily check on all the cells without having to shift through a huge list of station cameras.

Equipment/Hos Room
Equipment is being rehashed into something as a mix between an equipping section and a briefing area for officers. HoS now has an actual office, as beforehand my lack of foresight with space management when it came to giving heads their own personal offices made it extremely difficult to squeeze one in there. All in all, it should turn out to be less cramped than the current equipment room and give security a place to group and do whatever they usually do in a group.

Armory
Still deciding on this, as it should probably be in direct access with the Warden. Probably gonna have some airlock for the Warden's office but keep the upper section as an area where the Warden can hit a button and open the gates for officers to mass-equip gear if needed.

Cell Block
Cell block has been redone to an extent to have a maximum of 10 cells instead of the prior 8. Excessive? Maybe, but it doesn't hurt to have the extra space when you're dealing with a crew of 60+. Left side leads to the gulag shuttle and potential storage/armory (depending on how I make up my mind on this part), with the right side leading to perma/execution.

Perma
Perma has gotten a proper revamp into something that isn't a tiny shit-hole and entirely unfun for whoever gets thrown in. Includes 6 isolation cells and a sand pit for lounging around in. I plan on adding things like a small basketball court and the typical perma equipment in this area. R-walls are buried around the sand pit so prisoners can still enjoy that asteroid aesthetic with the protection of a standard perma wing.


It should be noted that now is a better time than any to get complaints/issues/criticisms about other department layouts out and public to me. The only departments I don't really plan on touching at the moment is the Service wing in its entirety and probably Engineering, as I'm pretty pleased with their current layout. Other departments like Medbay and Research feel too similar to other stations in a bad way and don't really take advantage of any size difference I tried to go for.

If any issues come up with the current map I'll do my best to get those sorted out in a separate branch if someone doesn't beat me to it, but then again it might be best for the map to go off rotation until I finish this revision.

>Cell block and perma have direct access to the armory
>Security officers and warden have to go through the cell block to get to it
>Gr3y.T1d3 virus

ShizCalev wrote:>Cell block and perma have direct access to the armory
>Security officers and warden have to go through the cell block to get to it
>Gr3y.T1d3 virus

Way ahead of you. Armory
Warden has direct access to the Armory from his office, as well as a side-section near the gulag shuttle that will be shutters for mass-equipping.

Equipment/HoS Room
More work there, still throwing around ideas for the end-result but it's a decent idea of what I'm going for. Big wooden room is going to be the HoS office overlooking the officer spawns.

Cell Block
Having up to potentially 10 rowdy crewmembers in one place could be dangerous, especially if not looked after 24/7. To help compensate for this, there has been an isolated patrol route added for the cell block with a securitron to patrol around. It probably won't do much in a mass-release, but it'll help keep with individual issues. Each cell with have individual flashers and cameras as usual, along with the main middle wall segment having flashers that can be controlled from the Warden's office.

Perma
More work on perma, mostly on the main yard. Plenty of space for prison-related activites, such as forming your own gang, getting swole, or tending to your garden.

Layout of this map is confusing as fuck. Make the holomap like CM has.

Seriously, this map is just shit. Even Deltastation is better as they give some departments more toys.

The Clowns Pocket wrote:Seriously, this map is just shit. Even Deltastation is better as they give some departments more toys.

Thank you for your constructive criticism, I will make sure to keep your thoughts and issues in mind while working on the department revamps.

MMMiracles wrote:

The Clowns Pocket wrote:Seriously, this map is just shit. Even Deltastation is better as they give some departments more toys.

Thank you for your constructive criticism, I will make sure to keep your thoughts and issues in mind while working on the department revamps.

Okay fine. It'd go from "Shit that causes me to suicide at roundstart" to "Playable, maybe even okay" if the bridges weren't fuck ass huge and you had more waypoints to each department.

As it stands I feel like I am going in circles. Often times I am.

The Clowns Pocket wrote:Seriously, this map is just shit.

I've had people tell me they like the bridges, but I've also had people tell me the bridges are cancer incarnate. Don't expect much in that area to change, except for the Arrivals-Research bridge, which I'm planning on reworking a bit to include a mini-asteroid for custodial stuff. Will act as a way to split up the larger bridge and as a mid-way section for people who happened to get dunked into disposals near Research can survive the flight.

The 4 pads that already exist can let you jump across the station in an instant if someone bothers setting them up (not difficult, something for engineers to do round-start).

As for the going in circles: Well, yeah. The station is pretty much a square-circle ordeal, with Engineering acting as a mid-way bridge to cut across easily. If you aren't bothering to cut across Engineering like intended, then you will just end up running in circles to get from A to B.

I've had people tell me they like the bridges,

They are wrong.

Its not that I'd like them to be removed, just shortened to the point where it doesnt feel like I am wasting time going from one area to the next.

As for direction: Place arrows or something down on the bridges if you MUST keep them. Like something to say "Security ->" or whatever.

And yes, more gadgets would be nice if I MUST play this godawful map that makes me want to fart.

I'm sorry you feel that way about the bridges, but it turns out your opinion isn't objective fact in this regard. As for directional arrows and other guides, there are plenty of them along the hallways and bridge entrances, not quite sure how you've managed to not see them.

If by 'gadgets', you mean maintence loot, there is plenty of random spawn that pulls from the list. Sorry about whatever otherworldly forces that are forcing you to play when a map you dislike gets rolled, must be a sub-par experience.

MMMiracles wrote:I'm sorry you feel that way about the bridges, but it turns out your opinion isn't objective fact in this regard. As for directional arrows and other guides, there are plenty of them along the hallways and bridge entrances, not quite sure how you've managed to not see them.

If by 'gadgets', you mean maintence loot, there is plenty of random spawn that pulls from the list. Sorry about whatever otherworldly forces that are forcing you to play when a map you dislike gets rolled, must be a sub-par experience.

You'll never know until you play it with anything less than a full load of people. Utter ghost town where people get lost, rampant crying in OOC and large suicide lines at the HoP's desk.

If all of this is the intended experiance of the map, then I would say that it's a mission very well accomplished however I have some more suggestions on what to do

1. Remove air from the bridges. I actually remember being trapped in the chapel on roundstart because I had no idea how to get off the damn thing. Removing air would add more to the difficulty and force the crewmembers to adapt!
2. Make the bridges even longer. Way too short. Fix this.
3. You need to be even more sporadic with departments! I recomend putting the Bridge and the HoP office on completely seperate asteroids, as well as the brig and the jail cells.

All in all very good map and would suicide at hopline again.

I sure do love me some hyperbole, good stuff.

It would be nice to include Medical and Engineering in the pad list. You say this is something for engineers to do round-start, but they do not have a pad at all! Medical, considering it is a high traffic department, could use one as well.

it would be nice if the quantum pads were in alcoves, rather than fiddly seperate rooms of their own.

Not-Dorsidarf wrote:it would be nice if the quantum pads were in alcoves, rather than fiddly seperate rooms of their own.

The pads are kept in separate rooms because they're a pretty decent power draw in their default state and I'd rather not have them be akin to some sort of ghetto powersink on the entire hallway. This might not be a real issue, but people don't even seem to want to use them in the first place and I'd rather not give more incentive against using them, despite how useful they are for transport.

So...you are not going to respond to my previous post?

I just thought it was already kinda covered with my response to the clown. The pads are more meant as quick jumps between the corners of the station, the fact they happen to be next to departments is just coincidence mostly.

MMMiracles wrote:

Not-Dorsidarf wrote:it would be nice if the quantum pads were in alcoves, rather than fiddly seperate rooms of their own.

The pads are kept in separate rooms because they're a pretty decent power draw in their default state and I'd rather not have them be akin to some sort of ghetto powersink on the entire hallway. This might not be a real issue, but people don't even seem to want to use them in the first place and I'd rather not give more incentive against using them, despite how useful they are for transport.

Pads are too conveniant. Remove them. Extend the bridge.

Hey buddy, I think you got the wrong door, the leather club's two blocks down.

The Clowns Pocket wrote:your opinion is WRONG

opinion discarded

Gun Hog wrote:It would be nice to include Medical and Engineering in the pad list. You say this is something for engineers to do round-start, but they do not have a pad at all! Medical, considering it is a high traffic department, could use one as well.

yeah, I don't think the majority of engineers know how to construct pads so this is probably a better idea