The Female Body

Mapping Ideas and Sprite Galleries

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Re: The Female Body

Postby Armhulen » Fri Apr 14, 2017 3:30 am #280463

B-But i want a space waifu...
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Re: The Female Body

Postby Remie Richards » Fri Apr 14, 2017 10:57 am #280556

it is not kill.
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Re: The Female Body

Postby Armhulen » Fri Apr 14, 2017 3:17 pm #280624

Proud servant of nengtehadjingtingforion.
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Re: The Female Body

Postby Qbopper » Fri Apr 14, 2017 8:20 pm #280755

Dagdammit wrote:snip


I really don't think this is a good parallel to draw

female pyro model is retarded anyways
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Re: The Female Body

Postby Doctor Pork » Fri Apr 14, 2017 9:54 pm #280807

Remie Richards wrote:it is not kill.

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Re: The Female Body

Postby Dagdammit » Sat Apr 15, 2017 10:25 am #280978

Qbopper wrote:
Dagdammit wrote:snip


I really don't think this is a good parallel to draw

female pyro model is retarded anyways

Fem pyro model is SUPER retarded. The creator took an androgynous, utilitarian, loose-fitting work outfit (over a body of unknown and irrelevant proportions) and deciding that the FEMALE version should clearly be a vacuum-sealed thing that showed off the FEMALE's SEXY~ playboy-model-proportions body.
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Androgynous, loose-fitting outfit. Skintight outfit over hourglass-figure sexy body. Gosh, I guess you're right, no parallels here.

Seriously, it's like I'm watching a room full of people all nod in agreement that "Alien would be a great movie if only the role of Ripley had gone to Pamela Anderson instead of that ugly Sigourney Weaver bitch."

(edit: added quotes to that last sentence for clarification.)
Last edited by Dagdammit on Sat Apr 15, 2017 10:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Female Body

Postby Remie Richards » Sat Apr 15, 2017 10:28 am #280979

Sigourney isn't ugly though, and she's a strong female lead.
What's your dealio dag.

Also this isn't a crusade against the male sprites, for your example of the pyro suit, things like that, that would logically not be form fitting (such as has been mentioned a million times: hardsuits) won't be converted! what part of that don't you get?
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Re: The Female Body

Postby Dagdammit » Sat Apr 15, 2017 10:45 am #280982

Remie Richards wrote:Sigourney isn't ugly though, and she's a strong female lead.
What's your dealio dag.

Exactly. The room of hypothetical people saying "sigourney weaver is an ugly bitch and they should have cast pamela anderson as Ripley instead" would make me go "these people are tasteless morons with horrible priorities."

Remie Richards wrote:Also this isn't a crusade against the male sprites, for your example of the pyro suit, things like that, that would logically not be form fitting (such as has been mentioned a million times: hardsuits) won't be converted! what part of that don't you get?

I get that part. But the male jumpsuit isn't form-fitting either. Nor do I think it SHOULD be- if this was an equal-opportunity effort where EVERYONE got redone to have super attractive bodies, I could respect those supporting the effort but I'd still argue it wasn't at all the right fit for SS13.

Space Station 13 is not crewed by a roster of attractive and beautiful people with swimsuit-model bodies. It is crewed by a bunch of dorky misfits and losers trying to be cool.

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Re: The Female Body

Postby Remie Richards » Sat Apr 15, 2017 10:56 am #280985

that's rude, Sibyl a cutie, it's in her name!
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Re: The Female Body

Postby Dagdammit » Sat Apr 15, 2017 11:03 am #280987

I really do appreciate the hard work that goes into the tools you're making, for the record. It seems like a tricky challenge that's taking some clever solutions to overcome. Real "could" vs. "should" scenario. =/

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Re: The Female Body

Postby FantasticFwoosh » Sat Apr 15, 2017 11:32 am #280991

If you change gender, are you supposed to entirely change body shape? Because the reality is that usually unless you work out a lot and take treatment you're still going to have a slightly masculine or feminine build.


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Re: The Female Body

Postby Qbopper » Sat Apr 15, 2017 5:37 pm #281057

It's just hard to take you seriously when you resort to sarcastic jabs at people, that's all

I don't think the proposed female sprite is ideal by any means, but I think it's not a fair criticism because of the detail of the models here

female pyro is retarded because it's very clearly supposed to be unclear who's inside and it's a relatively detailed model - we're working with 32x32 sprites, so if it takes some very clearly ridiculous sprites to show to someone something at a glance I don't see an issue

If we were using large sprites capable of lots of detail, then making female sprites have hilariously obvious hourglass shapes would be dumb, but when it comes to making things clearer for tiny sprites I don;t have as much of an issue with it
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Re: The Female Body

Postby imblyings » Sat Apr 15, 2017 6:02 pm #281068

From a technical perspective, it's not very possible to have more subtle curves in a 32x32 space. If we could the first thing I'd sprite is heels and you'll notice a distinct lack of heels ingame.

>It is crewed by a bunch of dorky misfits and losers trying to be cool.

That's personal canon and at odds with a lot of characters and how they act ingame though. We could keep the current female body as one of two options however and I don't see any reason not to if the code allows it, as humans could do with more customization options compared to lizards.
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Re: The Female Body

Postby FantasticFwoosh » Sat Apr 15, 2017 6:30 pm #281077

Give them a inch and they'll take a mile, calling out fempyros hollywoodisation (suddenly very shapely and some are given coloured wigs as pin-ups) and suddenly all the catgirls (obvious furries, lizards, flypeople) & stuttery nurses become pretty disgusting in the hands of immature players. Expect ERP incidents to rise.

> talking in terms of obvious sexuality in clothing across genders, the Jambroni suit is satirical and cringey (as to say in my previous points don't add visible bulges to male suits or sexualise men either into being muscly hunks), but to add actually shapeful nightwear & revealing suits (to both genders) bordering on erotic is a step too far. When already it was a little bit of a chuckly joke for the mostly squarish character models, along with obvious implications of cross dressing and getting away with it.

I just assumed that repeated cloning defects & reprocessing made space-people enuchs, genderless without organs but still carry obvious prevailing gender traits.


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Re: The Female Body

Postby Dagdammit » Sat Apr 15, 2017 7:18 pm #281095

Oh I agree that 32x32 sprites mean there's likely no better option- going beyond the current minor differences inherently means giving the female characters super-overdone hourglass figures. That's why we shouldn't do it? Because there's no way to do it that doesn't cause a significant tone shift while creating a really awkward gender double standard where nothing existed yesterday?

Sprites conveying information at a glance is often a vital gameplay consideration, but why would this be one of those cases? Why do I NEED it to be clear at that any onscreen janitor, security officer, etc. is or isn't female?

>That's personal canon and at odds with a lot of characters and how they act ingame though.
People don't need swimsuit model bodies to behave in ways that are charismatic or seductive. Personal canon for characters is one thing, and I'm fine with there being a range of interpretations, but there's still the question of whether it fits the spirit of SS13- and while this game's totally a mashup of disparate genres & tone, I think there's a clear body of evidence that the core, default state does not involve NT personnel being hollywood action movie levels of sexy or cool. Because if it did:
  • Our dramatic chase scenes wouldn't be ended by halls full of banana peels.
  • The most threatening participant in our dramatic chase scenes would not be the roomba with a stun baton.
  • The list of player roles on station would not bother including such glamorous staff positions as janitor and cafeteria worker.
  • Fire extinguishers and toolboxes would not be staple elements of our fight scenes.
  • The tech doohickey everyone has would not be PDAs with removable pens in them.

>We could keep the current female body as one of two options however and I don't see any reason not to if the code allows it, as humans could do with more customization options compared to lizards.
Let players achieve this body shape via extensive plastic surgery in medbay or ordering corsets at cargo. (Except probably not, because the stuff Fwoosh warns about would still totally happen)

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Re: The Female Body

Postby Qbopper » Sat Apr 15, 2017 7:48 pm #281100

Dagdammit wrote:Sprites conveying information at a glance is often a vital gameplay consideration, but why would this be one of those cases? Why do I NEED it to be clear at that any onscreen janitor, security officer, etc. is or isn't female?


This is a fair criticism, sure
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Re: The Female Body

Postby FantasticFwoosh » Sat Apr 15, 2017 8:14 pm #281106

Inspection is why we have the shift click & left click hotkey. Unless you are literally ambiguous, you can tell someones gender at a glance, why is a full body sprite needed to make it super obvious?


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Re: The Female Body

Postby PKPenguin321 » Sat Apr 15, 2017 9:01 pm #281119

I wish this was doable without making it impossible to disguise as the opposite gender. A human disguising as a lizard is already impossible, we shouldn't make humans disguising as humans just as tricky :/
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Re: The Female Body

Postby Qbopper » Sat Apr 15, 2017 9:11 pm #281125

PKPenguin321 wrote:I wish this was doable without making it impossible to disguise as the opposite gender. A human disguising as a lizard is already impossible, we shouldn't make humans disguising as humans just as tricky :/


plastic surgery

it's the solution to every problem
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Re: The Female Body

Postby imblyings » Sat Apr 15, 2017 9:27 pm #281133

Tone shift, swimsuit model, dorky misfit, super attractive, super overdone hourglass, awkward? Sprites will take on a caricaturized style at this scale. There's nothing wrong about it and it hasnt been for the last few decades. If you tack on so much personal meaning to it that's on you.

Im an adult i see this as a fun project with the biggest problem being added work.

As for canon we have none. We have everything from psychopath cardio freaks wearing clown masks decapitating people in the open to autistic engineers playing the game just to set up as many tesla balls as they can in containment to chemists who sit in chemistry and just do their job. Don't come at me with this odd almost crab in a bucket mediocrity mindset. It's for fun, this game is for fun if someone can have fun making their snowflake, if coders can have fun solving something challenging , if i can have fun making clothes for snowflakes, then let it be.

I also couldnt care less about disguises or the onscreen information point and neither should you. Gameplay wise it will be no different from the lizard or any other nonhuman race. If we have lizards, catbeastes, flymen and plasmamen, all of which need specific gear to avoid being recognized then you can deal with differently shaped human mobs.

>erp

Assuming we get lowest common denominators they get banned like any other griffer
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Re: The Female Body

Postby Dagdammit » Sat Apr 15, 2017 9:32 pm #281135

imblyings wrote:Don't come at me with this odd almost crab in a bucket mediocrity mindset.

Mind restating this a different way? I don't think I follow.

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Re: The Female Body

Postby oranges » Sat Apr 15, 2017 9:35 pm #281137

this person appears to be projecting harder than an Imax theater

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Re: The Female Body

Postby Qbopper » Sat Apr 15, 2017 9:35 pm #281138

Dagdammit wrote:
imblyings wrote:Don't come at me with this odd almost crab in a bucket mediocrity mindset.

Mind restating this a different way? I don't think I follow.


nor did I so I googled it

"If I can't have it, neither can you"

EDIT: oranges you already used that meme on me, get better smh fam tbh
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Re: The Female Body

Postby FantasticFwoosh » Sat Apr 15, 2017 9:39 pm #281139

Ahh, the slippery slope when we have talking silicon breast enhancements as DD cat & Lizardgirls roam the halls after gorging themselves in the kitchen to find a monkey to consume then vomit out and consume again like some bizzare SS13 bad NSFW deviantart project.

I mean, in that case even with the prior arguements, if you really need to bother other people to commit surgery on you for a purely cosmetic reason & waste their time to fufill your questionable cosmetic demand, medbay is literally doing nothing else already. (except saving lives, cloning people and doing chemistry + more important jobs than your liposuction) all the more reason to cut off the vain captain's head off on the surgery table.

Really if you want to make some sort of bizzare body morphing machine make it publically accessible from recreation so people have public access to change their shape without surgery. That is unless you want to put goof in charge to be the boss of this gym and make that body shape as of a result of using exercise machines (with the male variant of buffed dude too) but that risks patronizing players i guess into body shaming and image pressure when people start being choosy with their RP cliques, which is mean and cruel for same race discrimination when we already have species discrimination.

What if it goes out of style and people want large & beautiful fat sprites? You're making a lot of work for yourself, there's no empowerment about this at all other than a illusion of choice, which at the current phase is sexist versus men in not having similar choices.


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Re: The Female Body

Postby oranges » Sat Apr 15, 2017 9:42 pm #281142

Qbopper wrote:
Dagdammit wrote:
imblyings wrote:Don't come at me with this odd almost crab in a bucket mediocrity mindset.

Mind restating this a different way? I don't think I follow.


nor did I so I googled it

"If I can't have it, neither can you"

EDIT: oranges you already used that meme on me, get better smh fam tbh

What am I supposed to do when everyone appears to be showing big movies qbobber

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Re: The Female Body

Postby Dagdammit » Sat Apr 15, 2017 9:50 pm #281144

Qbopper wrote:
Dagdammit wrote:
imblyings wrote:Don't come at me with this odd almost crab in a bucket mediocrity mindset.

Mind restating this a different way? I don't think I follow.


nor did I so I googled it

"If I can't have it, neither can you"

So it feels to him like I'm trying to stop him from having a nice thing because I've been denied some other, unspecified nice thing?

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Re: The Female Body

Postby PKPenguin321 » Sat Apr 15, 2017 9:54 pm #281145

imblyings wrote:Tone shift, swimsuit model, dorky misfit, super attractive, super overdone hourglass, awkward? Sprites will take on a caricaturized style at this scale. There's nothing wrong about it and it hasnt been for the last few decades. If you tack on so much personal meaning to it that's on you.

Im an adult i see this as a fun project with the biggest problem being added work.

As for canon we have none. We have everything from psychopath cardio freaks wearing clown masks decapitating people in the open to autistic engineers playing the game just to set up as many tesla balls as they can in containment to chemists who sit in chemistry and just do their job. Don't come at me with this odd almost crab in a bucket mediocrity mindset. It's for fun, this game is for fun if someone can have fun making their snowflake, if coders can have fun solving something challenging , if i can have fun making clothes for snowflakes, then let it be.

I also couldnt care less about disguises or the onscreen information point and neither should you. Gameplay wise it will be no different from the lizard or any other nonhuman race. If we have lizards, catbeastes, flymen and plasmamen, all of which need specific gear to avoid being recognized then you can deal with differently shaped human mobs.

>erp

Assuming we get lowest common denominators they get banned like any other griffer

I guess I agree but I'm still sad about the death of disguises, the way they work in this game only came about thanks to how simplistic our cosmetic systems were and it was pretty robust as a result, but I guess with better cosmetics comes worse disguising for that same reason. Sacrifice in the name of progress I guess?
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Re: The Female Body

Postby Slignerd » Sat Apr 15, 2017 11:52 pm #281204

It's not like people really pay attention to how others look anyway.
It would appear that I'm a high RP weeb who hates roleplay and anime.

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Re: The Female Body

Postby imblyings » Sun Apr 16, 2017 9:14 am #281328

You specifically used your own version of the canon and idea of how people are on the space station to argue against a feature that when implemented, would probably give people a choice between the sprites. You use a bunch of words like 'awkward', 'overdone', 'super attractive', to make it seem like something fun is very wrong and shouldn't be added.

It's not 'I feel something', it's 'I am calling out sudden and hostile posts that came out of nowhere, with poor reasoning'.

fwoosh there is a redone /fit/ male sprite for those wanting to show off or meme
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Re: The Female Body

Postby Thunder11 » Sun Apr 16, 2017 11:55 am #281345

Or we could seperate body shape and gender, and give everyone the option of being skinny or robust
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Re: The Female Body

Postby oranges » Sun Apr 16, 2017 1:37 pm #281369

we can't allow too many choices, people might start thinking it's a democracy

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Re: The Female Body

Postby FantasticFwoosh » Sun Apr 16, 2017 2:04 pm #281372

I can't wait for the ahelps when people legit cry over the chef force feeding people to make them fat & squarish out of jealousy.

Put in NSFW spoiler format because half of the joke is in the audio of the video & its honestly just easier to not have to explain why you are watching obscure SS13 vids.
NSFW:


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Re: The Female Body

Postby Dagdammit » Sun Apr 16, 2017 2:38 pm #281376

Imblyings, I think you're right that... how do I put this... when it comes to the "tone" of ss13, what it should/could be, and whether something fits that? I acknowledge and agree that there's no objective, mathematically correct answer. When I make statements like "Space Station 13 is not crewed by a roster of attractive and beautiful people with swimsuit-model bodies. It is crewed by a bunch of dorky misfits and losers trying to be cool," that's not some kind of established rule everyone must abide by, and I don't want it to be. It's me trying to sell one possible view of the game to all y'all- putting it out there for people to nod or shake their heads at.

And I don't actually want NT crew to be 100% lame and not get anything cool. To me it seems more that on the spectrum from "cool" to "lame/mundane", most jobs' roundstart flavor is somewhere between 50 and 75% lame (e.g. roundstart sec feels at least 50% mall cop, and I support that). 50-75% roundstart coolness has been reserved for Heads, 75-100% coolness for Nuke Ops. =P

imblyings wrote:Tone shift, swimsuit model, dorky misfit, super attractive, super overdone hourglass, awkward? Sprites will take on a caricaturized style at this scale. There's nothing wrong about it and it hasnt been for the last few decades. If you tack on so much personal meaning to it that's on you.

They'll always take a caricaturized style, yes. I just think the current, androgynous caricaturized style remains the right call. It allows broad freedom of interpretation on character's in-game physical build and level of attractiveness, similar to how not rendering character's mouths allows the same face to fit a huge range of emotional states. Meanwhile, the approach that was being floated in this thread's first three pages- two clashing styles, all males are androgynous and all females are given sexy hourglass bodies- is far and away the worst possible call in my book.

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Re: The Female Body

Postby imblyings » Sun Apr 16, 2017 5:21 pm #281411

Males not having a similar resprite is down to technical limitations and personal skill limitations on my part. Mouths being a single pixel is a technical limitation. People inferring emotional states from what a player says and what's going on is an adaptation to it. 3D mmos with roleplay that don't have facial emotions because they're technically limited or limited by resources also don't celebrate the fact that their players can infer emotional states from other sources of information like it's a good thing. The ones that do have those facial emotions don't cry about players not having to make broad interpretations anymore.

If lizards can get the customization options that they do I see no reason why humans can't. If some player wants to have an ingame physical representation of their characters fitness level I couldn't care less as it has near zero effect on more important things.
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Re: The Female Body

Postby bman » Sun Apr 16, 2017 5:31 pm #281417

yeah i hate the new female sprite too

it's not ss13 at all really

but bman there's no real direction for ss1311111111


there's no real direction but there are EXCLUDED DIRECTIONS or directions WE DONT GO, for example we dont add 100 medieval swords and castles or swordfighting combat datums because that's not what ss13 is about

likewise spacemen having supermodel bodies feels really dumb and forced, i like spacemen as they currently are, not because "OMG YOU HATE CHANGE1111111111" autists but because that's the spacemen most people think of and know, them suddenly being supermodels takes from the charm of the game and why people play it in the first place.

if the sprite was less ridiculously proportioned i'd be onboard, right now it looks really bad and weird in my opinion.
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Re: The Female Body

Postby danno » Sun Apr 16, 2017 5:39 pm #281419

I think the proposed sprite is too extreme of a change and it's definitely not what I had in mind when I made this thread
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Re: The Female Body

Postby imblyings » Sun Apr 16, 2017 5:55 pm #281424

>why people play this game

from playing it for several years I thought this reason was to click people until they went horizontal or play on a server where they didn't have to click people until they went horizontal but still had people who clicked people so they went horizontal somewhere on the server
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bman
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Re: The Female Body

Postby bman » Sun Apr 16, 2017 6:20 pm #281434

imblyings wrote:>why people play this game

from playing it for several years I thought this reason was to click people until they went horizontal or play on a server where they didn't have to click people until they went horizontal but still had people who clicked people so they went horizontal somewhere on the server

doesn't change the fact that the sprite is so extreme and ridiculous, it's as if you sprited all of the spacemen to be muscle bound monsters and then created a tool to automate that

except here you made all women top heavy barbie dolls
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Re: The Female Body

Postby captain sawrge » Sun Apr 16, 2017 6:22 pm #281436

oranges wrote:What am I supposed to do when everyone appears to be showing big movies qbobber

underrated post
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bman
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Re: The Female Body

Postby bman » Sun Apr 16, 2017 6:26 pm #281438

this too

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we already have ridiculous things and no direction let's get this in!!!!!!!!!!1111111
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Re: The Female Body

Postby danno » Sun Apr 16, 2017 6:28 pm #281439

I'm not sure I understand how this relates to that bman but alright
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I don't even play ss13 anymore, pretty much due to dannos stupid bullshit

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bman
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Re: The Female Body

Postby bman » Sun Apr 16, 2017 6:30 pm #281440

danno wrote:I'm not sure I understand how this relates to that bman but alright

in response to anyone who would say "we already have ridiculous things so this is okay" to the sprites being so riddick
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Re: The Female Body

Postby Iatots » Sun Apr 16, 2017 6:55 pm #281444

Ebin screencap, burn center just got flooded with strawmen.

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Re: The Female Body

Postby TheColdTurtle » Wed Apr 26, 2017 11:52 am #285575

What happens now?
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PanzerIV
 
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Re: The Female Body

Postby PanzerIV » Thu May 18, 2017 3:33 am #295365

So how is this project coming along?

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Re: The Female Body

Postby Steelpoint » Thu May 18, 2017 4:12 am #295376

The only issue I can see with this, if its every implemented, is that it would make it difficult for a male traitor to disguise as a female and vice versa.

I wonder if that will make being a women a form of powergaming.
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Re: The Female Body

Postby D&B » Thu May 18, 2017 4:31 am #295380

Can we finally have /fit/ male bodies so qt space grill can start mirin' us?
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[20:26:02]ADMIN: PM: [censored admin]->[censored]: Welp. It was just a prank bro isn't a very good excuse when it comes to unprovoked nonantag murder, but since this is your first time doing it and you seem to understand the problem instead of a bannu I'm just going to leave you with a warning. Please PLEASE don't do this again in the future, as funny as crackhead broken bottle memes can be. Alrighty? Do you have any input on this?
[20:26:39]ADMIN: PM: [censored]->[censored admin]: Alright, no problem. I have some input. Fuck my boy pussy.
[20:27:06]ADMIN: PM: [censored admin]->[censored]: Okay then. Have fun.
[20:31:29]ADMIN: PM: [censored admin]->[censored]: Excuse me?

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lying little shit with your bullshit stat
fuck you

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Re: The Female Body

Postby paprika » Thu May 18, 2017 10:59 am #295424

only in 2017 /tg/ could a time-saving change to using almost-identical human sprites for both genders be construed as a way to make 'strong women'
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Re: The Female Body

Postby MisterPerson » Thu May 18, 2017 11:14 am #295429

Steelpoint wrote:The only issue I can see with this, if its every implemented, is that it would make it difficult for a male traitor to disguise as a female and vice versa.

I wonder if that will make being a women a form of powergaming.


Disguising hasn't been viable in an extremely long time.
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Re: The Female Body

Postby Grazyn » Thu May 18, 2017 11:32 am #295435

I don't see any issue with the "Barbie" model, it's not that super sexy, just regular attractive woman level. Also from a game design point of view, the game is heavily based on sci-fi media, and guess what, the females in those movies aren't usually cilindrical-shaped 4/10s.
For reference:

Ellen Ripley
Spoiler:
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Uhura (look at dem hips)
Spoiler:
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Kara Thrace
Spoiler:
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Carol Marcus
Spoiler:
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T'Pol
Spoiler:
Image


T'Pol (B-side)
Spoiler:
Image

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