(Poll) 20% stun reduction.

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Should this be merged?

Poll ended at Thu Jul 10, 2014 3:04 am

Yes
9
11%
Yes
9
11%
Yes
9
11%
No
16
20%
No
16
20%
No
16
20%
Abstain
2
2%
Abstain
2
2%
Abstain
2
2%
 
Total votes: 81

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paprika
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(Poll) 20% stun reduction.

Post by paprika » #16507

In an attempt to curb the game's insane stun-centric combat, I've spent some time reducing -all- stuns by 20%. This includes shocked doors, doorcrushing, magic missile, getting irradiated, etc.

For a more immediate reference, most stun-based weapons stunned for 10 ticks, or cycles, or whatever you want to call them. They now stun for 8. Things that stunned for 5 stun for 4 now. This includes tabling people.

Why?
Because moving away from stun centric combat is a good idea.
Why 20%?
Because security will still be able to apprehend people and not have to do follow-up stuns after tasing people in order to get cuffs on them.

This is a 10 day poll. PR below. No shitposting.
https://github.com/NTStation/NTstation13/pull/769
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Stickymayhem
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Re: (Poll) 20% stun reduction.

Post by Stickymayhem » #16550

I'd just like to say that the shorter you make stuns, the shorter you have to make cuffs to compensate. You need to account for the time spent closing the distance, getting cuffs out and then cuffing them.

Aside from that small change this would be fine, I think.
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Re: (Poll) 20% stun reduction.

Post by Swagile » #16585

Stickymayhem wrote:I'd just like to say that the shorter you make stuns, the shorter you have to make cuffs to compensate. You need to account for the time spent closing the distance, getting cuffs out and then cuffing them.

Aside from that small change this would be fine, I think.
Nah. If you are facing a (competent) sec officer, they'll just pull out their stun baton and wack-a-mole you then cuff.
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Re: (Poll) 20% stun reduction.

Post by paprika » #16589

Cuffing speed is already shorter than it used to be on artyom.

It was reduced following HG's nerfs to stuns, which we reverted, but we never reverted the cuffing speed. Normal cuffing speed is already the same as borg cuffing speed.
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Re: (Poll) 20% stun reduction.

Post by miggles » #17066

i abstained but would like to know the reasons people are voting no
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Re: (Poll) 20% stun reduction.

Post by Incomptinence » #17138

The HG stun nerf model didn't result in a shift from stuns to non stuns. It was even more drastic but even a single stun is still vastly superior to several non stunning projectiles and especially in melee against a moving target. Also the role most likely to stun, security, is meant to stun and will get banned if they use other force outside of specific circumstances.

Shift down a gear in a car and you are still driving a car. Something that would curb stun centric combat would be a gearing up of injury induced slowdown, someone depending on stuns to immobilise wouldn't really benefit from this as their game plan is pin you to the ground every time for as long as they need. I think the group that can shift the most from stuns is antagonists, things like killing with the high damage non stunning weapons like the revolver and to a lesser extent swords isn't stun based combat outside of lucky knock outs.
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Re: (Poll) 20% stun reduction.

Post by Lovecraft » #17140

I voted no because I feel the time is fine as is.
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Re: (Poll) 20% stun reduction.

Post by paprika » #17142

Wizard summon guns is a great place to actually watch how gun balance shapes gameplay. Look at the l6 for example: anyone with one can shit over anyone with a taser 99% of the time because one hit from that gun and you're moving like you're red hungry, which means you won't be able to dodge the second killshot.

Honestly making non-stun guns incredibly deadly and having the 'recoil' effect from baystation would be cool, but I fear that would unbalance things and lead to a lot more serious violence when stun-centric combat can mean peaceful solutions to fights a lot of the time since you have an opportunity to restrain or take someone's weapon from them without killing them. That's the one thing I dislike about focusing too much on the combat of the game, since combat isn't really the largest part of the game you need to focus on balacing, it's the jobs people play, security being the most affected by it. Shitting all over sec's ability to apprehend people just to make combat with nuke ops more fun was a bad idea.

But that works both ways, because not only did HG make stunning people harder, he made it harder to yakkety sax away from security in the first place, so technically he counter balanced it by reducing run speed.

Personally getting stunned for a whole 10 seconds by a taser or e-gun is way too excessive since it allows someone to light up a cigarette before slowly switching to their gun or melee weapon to finish you off. It makes stun guns more effective than they should be, when they should really only be a way to stop someone in their tracks so you can use a real disabler -- like a flash or a baton -- to keep them down for cuffing.

A 20% reduction still won't be that much of a dramatic effect to stuns, it'll just speed them up so it's not this colossal fucking 'rip me' moment when you take a stun, knowing you have no chance to avoid death at all. Traitors will still be able to ruin people if they catch them alone, nuke ops can still be incredibly effective when they're teamed up and not shit on by an assistant with a taser, but I ask that the people voting no to this poll take a second to consider the factors here instead of making a quick comparison to HG's stun nerfs.
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Re: (Poll) 20% stun reduction.

Post by Swagile » #17177

Reduce tasers heavily, so its more of a longer disarm push, but keep batons and flashs pre-nerf.
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Re: (Poll) 20% stun reduction.

Post by lumipharon » #17252

Reduce ranged stuns. E-guns/tasers, flashbangs and shit. The main benefit of ranged stuns (as sec) is to stop people from saxing off. Just make sure the change does not turn sec/hardsuit helmeted people into flashbang immune fucks though, that shit was retarded.

Leave longer stuns on the melee range shit, since A: You have to be in melee range of a potentially ranged weapon wielding opponent/saxing fucker, and B: rng pushdown is awful.

Having said that, would be nice if tasers had more ammo, 5 shots is pretty awful if dealing with more then one person, and people don't like when I flashbang crowds to catch individuals.
The L6 vs taser comparison is more proof of the benefit over 50 rounds vs 5, the L6 guy can spam all day, taser man can't.
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Re: (Poll) 20% stun reduction.

Post by paprika » #17435

I'm going to revert my change to the stun prod and maybe buff the stun baton or something, will remake the poll when the PR has been revised a bit.
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Re: (Poll) 20% stun reduction.

Post by miggles » #17443

buff pepperspray
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Re: (Poll) 20% stun reduction.

Post by paprika » #17558

I think I might do that seperately. Considering it requires your eyes to not be covered and is weaker than a flash it's pretty shitty. It should do temp eye damage or something, like a temporary welder 'fuzzyness'. I'll look into that later this week, but as far as this is concerned, I don't think touching stuns with the community so vehemently opposed to anyone touching the combat would be a good thing. Hell, if HG's shit was polled it would have been voted against into next week and everyone knows that. So I guess the poll not passing is a good thing here, but I'm getting awfully tired of people bitching about being straight into deadchat in 3 seconds because a guy had a full e-gun he unloaded on them and abused projectile pathing to shoot around corners.
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Re: (Poll) 20% stun reduction.

Post by Incomptinence » #18069

Weaker than a flash doesn't do pepper spray justice. It seems to stun people less than a second sometimes, utterly worthless.
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