The only reason I still use parapens is because they're a 100% reliable method of preventing your target from screaming for help. The only other things that do this are disabling telecomms, which is pretty hard to do without bombs or a subverted AI, or changeling mute sting. There is no other way to prevent me from screaming for help if I'm stunprod-cablecuffed in maint. Actually, yes there is, EMP Grenades, but that requires timing and there's only one of them on-map. Removing the headset takes time, and they'll likely already be typing once you land the stuncuff - It's not viable.
So what if we made some ghetto chem, maybe a drink at the bar(Beepsky smash? Neurotoxin? A derivative/improvement?) that silences the person while its in their system? Neurotoxin and Beepsky Smash are already very lengthy stuns - What if you added silencing to them?
What if there was a way to rig up a signaller assembly to block radio transmissions within two or three squares, but it's only active for a short time (20s?) and needs to be activated first and recharged/cellswapped between activations?
What if there was a traitor item similar to the above, but better, with more uses per charge/cell?
What if there was a backpack unit for murder-traitors or nuke ops to block all non-syndie non-binary radio transmissions within 10 tiles?
Give me a way to prevent my target from screaming for help, and I'll stop using parapens for assassinate objectives.
Re: Ghetto Parapens & Silencing chems
Posted: Mon May 19, 2014 8:19 am
by Steelpoint
The EMP kit spawns with a EMP Flashlight, last time I checked using it on a target disables their headset (And any other electronic items).
Re: Ghetto Parapens & Silencing chems
Posted: Mon May 19, 2014 8:26 am
by Psyentific
Steelpoint wrote:The EMP kit spawns with a EMP Flashlight, last time I checked using it on a target disables their headset (And any other electronic items).
And what if I don't want to rely on traitor items, like a true robust spaceman? That's half the reason I made the thread, y'know - I don't want to substitute one traitor item for another.
Re: Ghetto Parapens & Silencing chems
Posted: Mon May 19, 2014 11:43 am
by lumipharon
emp reaction, 2 beakers, one with iron one with uranium, you can alter the pour amount for larger emps, or smaller, more plentiful ones.
And no one will say no if you ask to be a miner and hell, plenty of jobs have access to the ore redemption machine.
Being able to silence people is really fucking strong, having to go to atleast some effort to do so isn't much to ask.
Re: Ghetto Parapens & Silencing chems
Posted: Mon May 19, 2014 12:26 pm
by AseaHeru
But... but... the mining update means we dont get uranium anymore!
Re: Ghetto Parapens & Silencing chems
Posted: Mon May 19, 2014 12:29 pm
by Steelpoint
Yep, so if your not a antag/antag not using items you are pretty much extremely limited on options on killing someone silently. The only other way you could do this is to get access to Tcomms and attach a signiliar to it to shut off comms remotely.
Re: Ghetto Parapens & Silencing chems
Posted: Mon May 19, 2014 1:42 pm
by Jam
You can already smother people with the Bartender's damp rag, and put chemicals on said rag. If smothering and choking made it impossible to speak, and you had some sleep toxin, chloral hydrate, beepsky smash, neurotoxin, even some carpotoxin, a silent kill would become much easier.
Spoiler:
The thing is, if you take them by surprise with anything that deals a significant amount of damage, like an energy-bow, a laser, a modified detective's revolver, a laser cannon(like a traitor revolver, except with burn damage), even some robust melee weapons, like a pickaxe, null rod, butcher's cleaver, or a fire axe(all of which have a decent chance to knock the target down, or out, if you aim for the groin or head), you can crit them quickly enough that they can't cry for help.
Re: Ghetto Parapens & Silencing chems
Posted: Mon May 19, 2014 4:44 pm
by Stickymayhem
I think choking people should silence them, or at least give a general emote over comms rather than allowing speech. We would see more use of grappling, and thereby reduce the changeling meta as a side effect. I like strangling people to death as an antag and yet get gibbed for it way to often as my victim screams I'm a ling. It's annoying because grappling and throwing people around is a lot of fun.
Re: Ghetto Parapens & Silencing chems
Posted: Mon May 19, 2014 6:19 pm
by Tokiko2
Make muzzles/gags/ghetto muzzles work like handcuffs? Let them block sounds or atleast disallow normal communication while they're being applied?
Re: Ghetto Parapens & Silencing chems
Posted: Mon May 19, 2014 9:31 pm
by Cipher3
Jam wrote:You can already smother people with the Bartender's damp rag, and put chemicals on said rag.]
But it's so vague and unknown, such a random thing, that few people even realize that, much less bother figuring it out and using it. It's a tiny snowflake item rather than something such as, say, putting towels in every bathroom and letting yuo wet them and then chemical douse them.
lumipharon wrote:emp reaction, 2 beakers, one with iron one with uranium, you can alter the pour amount for larger emps, or smaller, more plentiful ones.
And no one will say no if you ask to be a miner and hell, plenty of jobs have access to the ore redemption machine.
Being able to silence people is really fucking strong, having to go to at least some effort to do so isn't much to ask.
Still requires giving up something on whatever nice job you might already have. Also coming out of the ore redemption machine it will be a solid, you'd have to grind it for beaker form, then have two beakers, then activate. It's a nice posssible though because it could be combined into self-made EMP grenades.
Tokiko2 wrote:Make muzzles/gags/ghetto muzzles work like handcuffs? Let them block sounds or atleast disallow normal communication while they're being applied?
Part of why I made a brief suggestion in the minor suggestions thread of a way to fashion gags just like cablecuffs, but you'd still have a problem getting them on in time.
I really love the idea of the bartender's rag, it seems like such a good viable, but it's not implemented right and there's often no handy sleep chemicals. This whole matter is another thing that we can take steps towards solving via the class-specific traitor items page.
Re: Ghetto Parapens & Silencing chems
Posted: Mon May 19, 2014 9:40 pm
by Psyentific
Cipher3 wrote:
Tokiko2 wrote:Make muzzles/gags/ghetto muzzles work like handcuffs? Let them block sounds or atleast disallow normal communication while they're being applied?
Part of why I made a brief suggestion in the minor suggestions thread of a way to fashion gags just like cablecuffs, but you'd still have a problem getting them on in time.
The problem with putting an item on someone is that that'll take the same amount of time as taking off their headset, more, if they have a gas mask or internals or a cigarette or anything in the mouth slot.
The problem with using an EMP is that that's very limited, and depends entirely on traitor item or job-specificity, both of which I want to avoid.
Re: Ghetto Parapens & Silencing chems
Posted: Mon May 19, 2014 9:43 pm
by miggles
Psyentific wrote:
Steelpoint wrote:The EMP kit spawns with a EMP Flashlight, last time I checked using it on a target disables their headset (And any other electronic items).
And what if I don't want to rely on traitor items, like a true robust spaceman? That's half the reason I made the thread, y'know - I don't want to substitute one traitor item for another.
except the emp kit and the parapen both cost the same number of TC, and while the emp kit is multi-use, with several different items that can all be used in different ways, the parapen is single-use, and has no other use than killing people.
also >i need parapens so people don't scream!!
it's a crutch. traitors should not need crutches.
Re: Ghetto Parapens & Silencing chems
Posted: Mon May 19, 2014 9:44 pm
by Cipher3
If we make anything chemical-based it will require a certain amount of job-specificity, unfortunately. And the only other ready way is for some nifty weapon or makeshift weapon that can do it - Suddenly, all the greytide.
Wanna make it so it's more secure and difficult, good job you just reintroduced job specificity or dependence on emags.
Re: Ghetto Parapens & Silencing chems
Posted: Mon May 19, 2014 10:05 pm
by Psyentific
miggles wrote:
also >i need parapens so people don't scream!!
it's a crutch. traitors should not need crutches.
What, so you think I ought to risk being blown wide open and spending the rest of my round in the brig or in a locker in maint? Fuck you, give me a way to silence people without antag items that doesn't involve shutting down telecomms.
Cipher3 wrote: And the only other ready way is for some nifty weapon or makeshift weapon that can do it - Suddenly, all the greytide.
Remote Signaller, 145.9. Screwdriver, Cable coil, power cell. Activate before stunprodding.
Re: Ghetto Parapens & Silencing chems
Posted: Mon May 19, 2014 10:09 pm
by paprika
Then use an EMP flashlight like was suggested earlier Psy. Wanting to be ultra robust traitor without using TC is fucking laughable at best.
How about a small item to replace the parapen that jams on-screen communications and turns it into garbled text? So sec will know someone's being jammed, but not know who it is or where they are. Replace the 'paralysis' part of the parapen with a stunprod, taser, egun, flash, slip, basically anything and only people on-screen will be able to hear their screams for help.
It'll be disguised as a station bounced radio and works in your backpack and stuff.
Re: Ghetto Parapens & Silencing chems
Posted: Mon May 19, 2014 10:17 pm
by Psyentific
Paprika, that is exactly what I want. With a shittier ghetto equivalent.
Re: Ghetto Parapens & Silencing chems
Posted: Tue May 20, 2014 1:11 am
by Neerti
Murdering someone should be hard.
Re: Ghetto Parapens & Silencing chems
Posted: Tue May 20, 2014 1:30 am
by paprika
wtf you mad you got taken out of the round in 5 minutes and had to sit as a ghost for 2 hours because a traitor wanted easy greentext? get good fag!
Re: Ghetto Parapens & Silencing chems
Posted: Tue May 20, 2014 1:40 am
by Psyentific
Neerti wrote:Murdering someone should be hard.
Murdering someone is stupid easy - The only reason to take parapen over stunprod is because it silences. The parapen and emag are the two most common traitor items because, in contrast to almost all the other (popular) traitor items, they provide a unique function instead of making something easier (emag) or lowering the robustness threshhold (esword)
Give me a reliable, obtainable, TC-less method to silence, and I'll 420 balloon run err dae. Until then, parapen or sleepypen is the surest way to get a confirmed kill, and the most reliable way to get away with murder.
Re: Ghetto Parapens & Silencing chems
Posted: Tue May 20, 2014 1:50 am
by paprika
So you want the most useful part of parapen to be free in other words?
Why?
If we had a chemical that did the same effect of a mute sting (but shorter) people would cry fucking lakes.
Re: Ghetto Parapens & Silencing chems
Posted: Tue May 20, 2014 2:07 am
by Neerti
Remember old chloral?
Re: Ghetto Parapens & Silencing chems
Posted: Tue May 20, 2014 2:15 am
by paprika
Re: Ghetto Parapens & Silencing chems
Posted: Tue May 20, 2014 2:22 am
by Psyentific
paprika wrote:So you want the most useful part of parapen to be free in other words?
Why?
If we had a chemical that did the same effect of a mute sting (but shorter) people would cry fucking lakes.
Then don't make it a chem.
Psyentific wrote:Remote Signaller, 145.9. Screwdriver, Cable coil, power cell. Activate before stunprodding, garbles all radio transmissions in a short radius for 30s.
Psyentific wrote:Neurotoxin, the 'drink'. Pan Galactic Gargle Blaster + Sleep Toxin, 1:1, 20s stun for five units. Already exists in-game, just give it a silence effect.
Re: Ghetto Parapens & Silencing chems
Posted: Tue May 20, 2014 3:00 am
by miggles
how 2 be good:
stun someone
take their headset
at best they will be able to say "help" before its off
nobody will know where you are
take off their jumpsuit just to be sure
stop being a scrub and using parapens as an excuse for your scrubbery
Re: Ghetto Parapens & Silencing chems
Posted: Tue May 20, 2014 3:08 am
by Psyentific
miggles wrote:how 2 be good:
stun someone
take their headset
at best they will be able to say "help" before its off
nobody will know where you are
take off their jumpsuit just to be sure
stop being a scrub and using parapens as an excuse for your scrubbery
No, miggles. Stunning someone does not prevent them from quicktyping ;SCI MAINT and mashing Ctrl-Up until you remove the headset. The entire point is that the time it takes to remove the headset is more than enough time for someone to scream BAR MAINT.
Re: Ghetto Parapens & Silencing chems
Posted: Tue May 20, 2014 3:18 am
by danno
worst thread
Re: Ghetto Parapens & Silencing chems
Posted: Tue May 20, 2014 3:19 am
by miggles
99% of people are not that fast to understand what's going on, where they are, type it out, and spam it before the 1 second is up that it takes to remove headsets
also you have to be using arrow controls for ctrl+up to even work, which not all people do
Neerti wrote:Murdering someone should be hard.
Re: Ghetto Parapens & Silencing chems
Posted: Tue May 20, 2014 3:21 am
by danno
if you really need someone stunned and silenced why don't you put some effort into an actual plan instead of asking for an item that does it all for you
Re: Ghetto Parapens & Silencing chems
Posted: Tue May 20, 2014 3:22 am
by miggles
danno wrote:if you really need someone stunned and silenced why don't you put some effort into an actual plan instead of asking for an item that does it all for you
Re: Ghetto Parapens & Silencing chems
Posted: Tue May 20, 2014 3:31 am
by Psyentific
danno wrote:if you really need someone stunned and silenced why don't you put some effort into an actual plan instead of asking for an item that does it all for you
But we already have an item that does it for me. Parapens. They're a horrible crutch, and I can stun and murder someone without it. Stunprod cablecuff locker weld space. What I'm asking for is some way to prevent them from getting that first call for help off.
E: Plan? I never don't have a plan. How about you don't make assumptions about my playstyle?
Re: Ghetto Parapens & Silencing chems
Posted: Tue May 20, 2014 3:33 am
by miggles
yes
and we shouldnt have that item
if you dont want them to be heard, git gud
and i dont even mean that as a joke or anything
>i need a parapen to kill people
>"I never dont have a plan"
Re: Ghetto Parapens & Silencing chems
Posted: Tue May 20, 2014 3:35 am
by Psyentific
No, I don't need a parapen to kill people. I need a parapen to do it quietly.
Re: Ghetto Parapens & Silencing chems
Posted: Tue May 20, 2014 4:01 am
by lumipharon
Jesus christ, silencing someone is really fucking powerful, it DOES NOT need some extremely easy way to do so, hell, you can silently murder someone with a silenced stechkin, before they even have time to call for help (or often even realise they're getting shot) they're in crit.
Uranium isn't terribly hard to get, other then miners, QM (cargotech could probably get some off miners/get mining access no worries, science and chem(?)/whatever other jobs have access to the redemption machine. Hell,a fucking BOTANIST, can literally shit out thousands of units of uranium if they get a little mutagen or a somatory (they also have their own grinder, for metal) then you can simply add shit form one beaker to another for unlimited emp works, or mke emp grenades, or make 'ghetto' emp implants (voice activated emp nades either implanted in you, or just in your pocket).
Now how hard is it to say, I lost my ID, can I be a botanist/miner/etc now? Or just, can I have botany/mining/etc access?
Or just like, do what other people do, cover your face, don't wear an ID, kill X, drag away and hide.
Getting murdered and no one even knowing it happened is really gay, and should not be made stupid easy.
Re: Ghetto Parapens & Silencing chems
Posted: Tue May 20, 2014 4:05 am
by danno
I haven't used parapen in a long, long time and I've taken people out quietly many times
honestly you can figure out ways to do it without it being handed to you.
Re: Ghetto Parapens & Silencing chems
Posted: Tue May 20, 2014 5:10 am
by Wesdo
Just disable using the headset while cuffed, because it doesn't make any sense how can they toggle the headset on/off without using their hands.
Re: Ghetto Parapens & Silencing chems
Posted: Tue May 20, 2014 5:23 am
by Psyentific
Wesdo wrote:Just disable using the headset while cuffed, because it doesn't make any sense how can they toggle the headset on/off without using their hands.
>Can't scream shitcurity while cuffed
>Can't yell WGW while buckled in the brig
>Eliminate the step where you remove his headset
Yes please
Re: Ghetto Parapens & Silencing chems
Posted: Tue May 20, 2014 5:27 am
by WeeYakk
paprika wrote:How about a small item to replace the parapen that jams on-screen communications and turns it into garbled text? So sec will know someone's being jammed, but not know who it is or where they are. Replace the 'paralysis' part of the parapen with a stunprod, taser, egun, flash, slip, basically anything and only people on-screen will be able to hear their screams for help.
It'll be disguised as a station bounced radio and works in your backpack and stuff.
A little satellite dish that works similar to a power sink. Wrench it down to the floor and activate it to create a sizeable (department sizeish) "dead zone" where comms don't work. You can use it to set up an ambush for your target that they can't call for help in. After you're done you wrench it back up and can store it in your backpack so it's not as detective scan gg no re like powersinks are.
Re: Ghetto Parapens & Silencing chems
Posted: Tue May 20, 2014 5:29 am
by Psyentific
WeeYakk wrote:
paprika wrote:How about a small item to replace the parapen that jams on-screen communications and turns it into garbled text? So sec will know someone's being jammed, but not know who it is or where they are. Replace the 'paralysis' part of the parapen with a stunprod, taser, egun, flash, slip, basically anything and only people on-screen will be able to hear their screams for help.
It'll be disguised as a station bounced radio and works in your backpack and stuff.
A little satellite dish that works similar to a power sink. Wrench it down to the floor and activate it to create a sizeable (department sizeish) "dead zone" where comms don't work. You can use it to set up an ambush for your target that they can't call for help in. After you're done you wrench it back up and can store it in your backpack so it's not as detective scan gg no re like powersinks are.
Give me a medium-sized version that I can put in my backpack, in addition to the department-size one and I'm sold.
Re: Ghetto Parapens & Silencing chems
Posted: Tue May 20, 2014 5:40 am
by Munchlax
That will be a stupidly overpowered item, it's basically a bigger parapen with more uses.
Re: Ghetto Parapens & Silencing chems
Posted: Tue May 20, 2014 8:07 am
by paprika
Or we could remove the parapen and tell people to buy an EMP flashlight and get fucking good.
Re: Ghetto Parapens & Silencing chems
Posted: Tue May 20, 2014 6:43 pm
by Psyentific
paprika wrote:Or we could remove the parapen and tell people to buy an EMP flashlight and get fucking good.
Re: Ghetto Parapens & Silencing chems
Posted: Tue May 20, 2014 7:55 pm
by paprika
Delicious iteq tears
Re: Ghetto Parapens & Silencing chems
Posted: Tue May 20, 2014 10:41 pm
by Cipher3
Psyentific wrote:
paprika wrote:Or we could remove the parapen and tell people to buy an EMP flashlight and get fucking good.
Spoiler:
Re: Ghetto Parapens & Silencing chems
Posted: Wed May 21, 2014 12:24 am
by miggles
le fune redit meme
Re: Ghetto Parapens & Silencing chems
Posted: Wed May 21, 2014 2:21 am
by Incomptinence
I'm cool with parapens. I do like more exotic murders but stuff like poisoning or viruses (there really should be an incentive to use poor spread virus as an assassination tool) just aren't potent enough or fast enough to make to be worth bothering with, most of this talk of "planning" usually means using some stun or enough damage to kill them so quickly they don't shout.
Re: Ghetto Parapens & Silencing chems
Posted: Wed May 21, 2014 3:10 am
by paprika
The problem isn't with the stun, paralysis or the muting, it's that ALL of these effects are bundled in a really cheap package that's so fucking easy to use it's laughable. I say, raise the price of the parapen by 1tc, that way you can't buy dual parac4 combos and will spend about 6tc on a parac4 combo total, leaving enough tc left over for potential escape tools or more C4 but not murderbone. I mean damn, with 5tc you can buy an ebow or a stechkin ffs, and still be an incredibly effective traitor after you parapen c4. If not a HUGE overhaul to it, if not an outright removal, why not a simple nerf to its price?
I can't imagine it's CHEAP to harvest carpotoxin for the paralysis mix anyway, fluff-wise.
