/tg/Station 13

9mm ammo got nerfed to 15 damage (from 25), althought the mag size went from 18 to a nice round 20 finally (why the dickens was it ever 18?), 15 damge means it's 7 shots to crit a non armored target, you'd be better off throwing floortiles then making an smg.

Stechkin is literally double the damage of this, and lasers were already better in most cases (xenos/carp etc being weak to burn damage), so why would anyone want to use it anymore, considering it requires research and mining to make, as well as ammo?

I do like the idea of a weaker, non stunning pistol in the game, but not at the expensive of making the smg useless.

Well .45 does 20 damage and stuns which was initially done so the M1911 could be a direct lethal upgrade from the detective's .38 if you didn't want to roll stun revolver, I could make 9mm do 20 damage without the stun to differentiate their power, this was kind of a hasty change really only made because I wanted to balance the protolathe guns in a way that made you sacrifice damage for capacity. Since the smg takes diamond I'll buff 9mm. Thank you for your feedback.

Maybe decrease shot delay so it feels more like something you can actually spray at people,

There used to be a 'spray' to it, as in it shot in bursts, at least the c20r did, I'm not sure how that was a thing.

If someone can tell me how to remove the firing delay from the baseline SMG (it would affect the c20r, l6, and tommy gun, which is fine because they're all automatic) then I could keep the 9mm smg at 15 damage but have an incredible potential firepower compared to the pistol version since you can riddle people with bullets.

Edit: https://github.com/NTStation/NTstation13/pull/595

To recap, glock a shit, 1911 is a glock with less capacity but stun, smg is a glock with high ass capacity.

the marauder has a burst fire weapon, which can also be made in the exofab I believe, not the same as removing the delay but eh, it's an option.

Also even if you can remove the delay, the total damage per mag is still pretty meh, considering how many hits you need to crit someone. The main weapons I compare it to are the advanced egun and laser cannon.

Advanced egun has regenerating ammo, with damage or stun firemodes, while the laser cannon has 40(?) burn per shot. And if you can make the smg, chances are you'll have the research (and the minerals) for these two, hell the laser cannon and advanced egun only need one mined mineral each (diamond and uranium respectively), while the smg needs silver and diamond. Don't most smg's today have 30 round mags, eh? eh?

the glock is great though, I had the awful idea the other week about issues gun licences, letting the crew carry a weak, non stunning weapon, which the glock fits perfectly...

My decision to make the SMG 20 rounds was based off the sprite and how much a typical 9mm straight magazine like that holds. If someone makes a sprite with a longer or curved magazine it would make more sense to have a 30 round magazine, aka mp5. Would also make it the fat magazine counterpart to laser cannon/etc.

Also, you have to realize that yeah, you might be able to make a laser cannon, but the laser cannon/advanced e-gun still have to recharge. Manually or automatic, you're stuck without ammo for a lot longer than it takes to reload a 20 round magazine of ranged 20 brute murder. Just carry extra mags.

Yeah that's true, I don't want to see the smg being OP or anything, just the laser cannon is generally more practical (firing through glass, double damage on a lot of mobs etc), just didn't want to see it become useless, since projectile weapons are fun.

Agreed, straight damage is usually tossed in the trash in favor of energy because of the stun centric combat, but with some more guns dealing short stuns now and larger capacities, straight brute might be more viable. I mean, it IS the future, lasers and energy bolts being OP is obvious, but guns are still pretty brutal.

You could always make the 9mm rounds have a (smallish) chance to ingnore armor...
Say its copperjacketed or something.

What about if the bullet hits a leg it has a chance to drop them, if it hits an arm it has a chance to drop the item in that hand.

Simple, strategic and improves guns slightly.

That's pretty ingenious and could be applied to melee as well. That could definitely be a thing if it wasn't balanced to be OP as fuck compared to shooting at heads. Headshots could do more damage/have a small chance to KO with melee, arm shots could have a larger chance to force them to drop the weapon in said hand, and leg shots could weaken/knock people over for a bit.

Imagine smacking an esword out of someone's hand with your toolbox and being master robust!

Yes, though it requires balancing to not totally invalidate robust melee weapons.

Oh yeah the damage dealt by attacking limbs will be considerably less than head/chest because realism. This would also help to tie into a more complex medical system too.