/tg/Station 13

New update has restricted Robotics access to RnD. Mind you we can still go in every other section of science but none of them are relevant to robotics like research. With such low pop doing this hinders any possibility for research to be done. I play often during the day when Im the only science member and without RnD we can do no research on a research station. Please change it back.

As someone who does a lot of Captaining/job management as Head of Personnel, I would rather have Roboticists (like Kenzie) who know what they're doing than five scientists who flood toxins with plasma.

Lovecraft wrote:As someone who does a lot of Captaining/job management as Head of Personnel, I would rather have Roboticists (like Kenzie) who know what they're doing than five scientists who flood toxins with plasma.

Are you kidding me? Kenzie is literally the shittiest Roboticist/Scientist I have ever seen. Ever.

MOD EDIT: This is a subforum for feedback on game mechanics, not for arguing about players. Please bring this elsewhere.

Lovecraft wrote:As someone who does a lot of Captaining/job management as Head of Personnel, I would rather have Roboticists (like Kenzie) who know what they're doing than five scientists who flood toxins with plasma.

Thanks. Im just concerned if I break in then we have lowpop valids and I get arrested. If we have no hop/captain or a shitler hop/captain then I can't get access that way either. And then slowly no one is going to want to do science anymore or the actual work. And we turn into sybil.


Braindude I appreciate your feedback.

And then slowly no one is going to want to do science anymore or the actual work. And we turn into sybil.

Hmmmmmmmmmm

On topic, while I would argue against giving Robotics general access to RnD, the fact of the matter is Robotics is completely tied into RnD, no scientists means Robotics is screwed. So yes, Roboticists should have access to RnD.

Lovecraft wrote:As someone who does a lot of Captaining/job management as Head of Personnel, I would rather have Roboticists (like Kenzie) who know what they're doing than five scientists who flood toxins with plasma.

Kenzie is a super-efficiency machine, man.

But seriously, am I getting this right in that they restricted stuff like tech storage from robotics? Or was it other science departments?

Cipher3 wrote:

Lovecraft wrote:As someone who does a lot of Captaining/job management as Head of Personnel, I would rather have Roboticists (like Kenzie) who know what they're doing than five scientists who flood toxins with plasma.

Kenzie is a super-efficiency machine, man.

But seriously, am I getting this right in that they restricted stuff like tech storage from robotics? Or was it other science departments?

They've taken RnD access away from robotics. So roboticists cannot access research area/console anymore. Also thanks.

So Roboticists have access to Toxins, Xenobio, and Telesci, but not R&D, the one place in Science that they actually need? Fix now.

will fix

roboticists should have access to R&D

plus we need to remove those shitty ass ID locks on the robot fab and the rnd consoles, they suck balls

Nobody's taken away anything. Nothing related to robotics access was purposely changed in recent history, so it's likely either a config change or a mistake.

iamgoofball wrote:will fix

roboticists should have access to R&D

plus we need to remove those shitty ass ID locks on the robot fab and the rnd consoles, they suck balls

Keep the locks, but give Robos access. Keeping assistants from breaking in and printing off whatever they like is important, imo.

How about I switch the locks to just be generic science access, then? That way greyshirts can't get in, but roboticists and scientists can still function if one of the two are missing.

Set the ID Lock on the R&D Console & deconstructor to Science access. Actually, just fold R&D Lab access into Science access and call it a day.

This is my bad. I removed roboticist's "TOX" access, which is apparently access to RND, not toxins mixing(what?). An archaic, stupid, never fixed access name that has confused more coders than me. I apologize for it, had no idea. It'll be fixed in the next update, goofball has already made the change.

paprika wrote:This is my bad. I removed roboticist's "TOX" access, which is apparently access to RND, not toxins mixing(what?). An archaic, stupid, never fixed access name that has confused more coders than me. I apologize for it, had no idea. It'll be fixed in the next update, goofball has already made the change.

>want to remove a thing
>remove the thing
>it removes something only vaguely related instead
>people kick up a fuss
ss13coding.txt

Ok but to be fair I saw that roboticists had 'tox' access and i was like pls no robobombs

Detonating a bomb from inside a mech will leave you unscathed so robobombs would be hilarious.

10/10 would exploit

this comes a bit too late but roboticists are actually completely capable of doing RnD without RnD access, they just need the protolathe board from tech storage.

What, they have a DA?

They'd also need the DA board, true.

And using the DA requires R&D access.

Which was removed in my PR. It now only takes general research access.

Yesterday I couldn't use it as a Roboticist.

gee it's almost like the server needs to update first

Alright, alright. Just be clear.

to clarify, anything linked to a robotics RD console can be used by a roboticist.

Bringing this up here just because:

Exosuit Fabricator can't be used with an ID in your wallet with the appropriate access if it's not on the top layer, on ministation at least.

What kind of code does it check?

Wallets have lots of incompatibilities with machinery and stuff, but on the plus side, you can hold 4 ID's and if you put on a gas mask you're automatically Unknown even if you still have the ID in.

It's like a poor man's agent ID

Seeing as scientists still have complete robotics access Ive just been going scientist and doing robotics until the update. Also you need the bits to build the prolathe and DA which you need from rnd which you dont have access to

https://github.com/NTStation/NTstation13/pull/700

here now lock this thread

yo but duderoonis have we forgotten the fact that robutticists used to not have RnD access? I mean that worked for the last what? 6 years?
Next thing let's just give them chemistry access because fuck you chemists roboticists don't need yo shit they're fucking mary sues do it all. I myself do not support this whole "give everyone access to their department" business. But oh well, the majority wins.

no CA no stop you don't understand artyom uses the 'increased access' config which has been said over 3 trillion times that the normal access for jobs is elevated for servers with lowpop and skeleton crews in departments so different people can do different jobs in their department if people are lacking, the most prominent example is roboticsts doing research and vice versa. A lack of people in your department was a pretty big issue for the last 6 years on server 2 and now that we have a different code base for our player base we can use different config settings.

There are TWO access lists for each job, one for elevated (which we use) and one for normal (which sybil uses), and when you have each of the sub-departments filled in a department you don't need to have everyone having all access in the department.

Think of it like this -- signing up as a robo gives you 'priority' to that sub department, same thing with medical and viro/chem etc. If you have a job specifically for that sub department, even if someone else has access, if they steal your chem machine (unlikely) and use up all your chem machine juice and shove you aside as a non-antag that is extremely rude behavior and you should report it to an admin because 'i have access' is not an excuse and never has been. First come first serve priority for departments has always been a thing and if you get RNG fucked out of a job you want, just wait until next round, set it high priority, etc. All of the sub-departments have ample opportunity for multiple people to work in them, with the exception of maybe viro and toxins mixing, the two mega dangerous "mad scientist" sub departments that is usually manned by the guy who talks to himself about plasma or only to monkeys.

paprika wrote:that is extremely rude behavior and you should report it to an admin

Uh, no you don't? You call security if someone uses up all your chem juice just to be a dick. Security's there for a reason. That is security's job, not admin's job.

I don't think you could find something more IC then that.

That is an IC issue. Which admins shouldn't be involved in. If admins are getting involved over that bullshit then this stopped being a video game and this started being a boring rulesfest.

The admins aren't there to hold your hand and make a massive fuss when little billy says something that accidentally offended you.

They're there to make sure no one's excessively griefing.

Chemistry juice recharges. Get over it and stop whining like a baby if someone uses it all up.

holy shit stop pretending to be an admin it doesnt matter

paprika wrote:no CA no stop you don't understand artyom uses the 'increased access' config which has been said over 3 trillion times that the normal access for jobs is elevated for servers with lowpop and skeleton crews in departments so different people can do different jobs in their department if people are lacking, the most prominent example is roboticsts doing research and vice versa. A lack of people in your department was a pretty big issue for the last 6 years on server 2 and now that we have a different code base for our player base we can use different config settings.

There are TWO access lists for each job, one for elevated (which we use) and one for normal (which sybil uses), and when you have each of the sub-departments filled in a department you don't need to have everyone having all access in the department.

Think of it like this -- signing up as a robo gives you 'priority' to that sub department, same thing with medical and viro/chem etc. If you have a job specifically for that sub department, even if someone else has access, if they steal your chem machine (unlikely) and use up all your chem machine juice and shove you aside as a non-antag that is extremely rude behavior and you should report it to an admin because 'i have access' is not an excuse and never has been. First come first serve priority for departments has always been a thing and if you get RNG fucked out of a job you want, just wait until next round, set it high priority, etc. All of the sub-departments have ample opportunity for multiple people to work in them, with the exception of maybe viro and toxins mixing, the two mega dangerous "mad scientist" sub departments that is usually manned by the guy who talks to himself about plasma or only to monkeys.

Here's the thing, if we do have over >20 people that means atleast 2 scientists and a roboticist.
If it's one of those "roboticists" that want to do it all themselves that leaves two departments for the scientist. Toxins and Telesci.
If I was a scientist I would absolutely hate doing those two things but welp that roboticist isn't going to let me anywhere near RnD so I guess that's out of the question and I don't want to stir shit so I won't tell anyone else. What do I do now? The job I wanted to do is gone. Guess I gotta go to the bar.

>people wanting to do RnD

Naw usually RnD is treated as a prerequisite to fun and not the fun itself.

I-I used to like doing RnD ;_;
I mean sure yeah the start is usually cookie cutter but after that you can go space explore and find syndi suits and toolboxes to decon and get illegal tech.

Does anyone else thing RnD should be more on actual research and testing instead of going down a liner route?

Anyway, I think this sums up the tune of this thread.

Sybil's access is good for normal population (20-30+)
Artyom's "improved" access is good for a underpopulated server (5-20).

However if we can agree that Robotics access to RnD on low pop is good, is there a system to revert the access's to the original access's if the server population goes over 20 before round start or vice versa?

Considering how it works now is a config option which I think gets loaded as soon as the server starts you'd first need to code it so it reads from it when round starts and not server starting (I could be wrong!), then add in a system to compare the server pop and switch from low-pop to normal access.

As for RnD, it's something that's kinda been a speed bump for a long time and everyone wants to improve it but no-body really knows how. Best thing in my opinion if you were crazy/had a lot of willpower and free time to code would be to replace it with another system but god help you if you do.

I'm kinda curious what game you guys think that has the best 'research system'.