/tg/Station 13

Bottom post of the previous page:

Tunder wrote:

Remie Richards wrote:

Tunder wrote:

Remie Richards wrote:

Tunder wrote: It is an open source game. Stop avoiding discussion on changes that you want to make.

You're aware Pull Requests exist right? their entire functionality is to discuss the change before it's merge or closing.
We don't push straight to master, even for hotfixes, meaning a PR always exists, it's a rule + the 24hrs rule, you have a window to discuss.
So as far as I can see it the only one avoiding anything is YOU.

I have a Github.

Github is shit.

We shouldn't have to come to you to discuss changes you want to make to the game. This forum is the base of operations for the community, not Github.

Everyone posts here. Discuss the changes here. it's that simple. You can make polls and get feedback much simpler in a normal forum than on Github, which has limited scrolling comment functionality.

You hide on Github to avoid having to explain and defend your changes, and your kickin' rad place to be is producing poor results because so few of you regularly play the game anymore and you don't get feedback from normal players, you hide on Github and refuse to use the forums, where all of the noncoders are.

The people who bother to make the MINIMUM amount of effort to go to the Github and see the PRs, are listened to, and take part in the discussions.
It is not our fault if you refuse to take part.

I DO go on Github, and thus realize that it is a poor medium for feedback. There is no polling option, and there is no ability to directly reply to posts. It is a poor man's imageboard, and completely dysfunctional when it comes to discussing code before it is merged.

If you are merging code in the game that we play, we shouldn't have to climb Mt. Olympus to appease the pantheon every time we want to discuss changes.

If you want to affect this community, you need to come to where the community is, we should not have to come to you. Otherwise you will continue to commit shit code that breaks the game/was poorly designed/lowers the server quality of life/the playerbase doesn't want and eventually we'll get fed up.

One day before a merge is simply not enough time, major changes should be put on the forum for a week to discuss and poll.

If you visited the Github or chose not to cherry pick your statements here you'd know that the ACTUAL Major changes don't get merged in one day, they tend to stay up for atleast 5+ days.
Github is used as it's where all the discussion of code happens outside of Coderbus, it's the literal closest place to the codebase, and it's tools for commenting on code changes are much better than the forum However yes, polling is arse, Gitlab has a system to automatically count the number of thumbs up (+1) and thumbs down (-1) a PR has for a rough scale of reaction, It's the only feature of Gitlab I wished we had with Github.
On the forums, we don't have control over posts, and so can't stop OBVIOUSLY knee-jerk reactions to things from spiralling into week long threads that circle around and end up nowhere, with control over the Issue reports we can filter down redundancy (Duplicate issues) and such.
As for "Climbing to mount Olympus" it's one URL, you obviously have one link/bookmark/shortcut/URL to get to these forums, so why is the Github one INFINITELY hard to reach according to your claims of it being the distance from earth and the palace of the gods?
Github allows us to get -good- feedback, where would you rather us go? Singulo? No, OOC? God No, the Forums? Some of us do! but it's no surprise people tend to stick to what they're most familiar with, people have invested in Github because it's required to push their changes to the game, so they're obviously more willing to stick around and interact there.

github isn't that bad

Thing about github PRs is that you're commenting on code that already exists, so the coder is going to fight tooth and nail to get it merged atleast mostly intact.

As opposed to making a thread saying "Hey I'm thinking of making x changes", which gives an opportunity for people to go "hell no thats fucking dumb"

Tunder wrote:There is no polling option

http://www.strawpoll.me

Tunder wrote:and there is no ability to directly reply to posts.

Tunder wrote:If you are merging code in the game that we play, we shouldn't have to climb Mt. Olympus to appease the pantheon every time we want to discuss changes.

I made a guide on how to make issue reports, and it includes a "making a github account" section.

Tunder wrote:One day before a merge is simply not enough time, major changes should be put on the forum for a week to discuss and poll.

Something that we could make is a robot to automatically make a forum thread with the PR description/commits in the OP each time a PR is made.

"one day before merge" is "one day minimum before noncritical bugfixes are merged", fyi.

also its not like we have a feedback forum where you can make threads about pending changes, right

Remie Richards wrote: On the forums, we don't have control over posts, and so can't stop OBVIOUSLY knee-jerk reactions to things from spiralling into week long threads that circle around and end up nowhere, with control over the Issue reports we can filter down redundancy (Duplicate issues) and such.

If you find posts like that, report them.

Malkevin wrote:Thing about github PRs is that you're commenting on code that already exists, so the coder is going to fight tooth and nail to get it merged atleast mostly intact.

As opposed to making a thread saying "Hey I'm thinking of making x changes", which gives an opportunity for people to go "hell no thats fucking dumb"

I've looked at several pull requests and it's common for people to change things in the code in response to complaints about the PR. I don't know how much change counts as "mostly intact", but I think coders are willing to compromise a bit if it means they get their changes pulled.

EDIT: That's also one of the nice things about discussion in PRs, the changes people make to the branch of the PR appear in the thread.

I don't mean to be THAT guy, but, how exactly do you suggest we fix coderbus? What actual steps or additions must be done?

The way I see it is the big problem/complaint lies in a lack of communication between Coders and Players. But many (if not most) players don't have a forum account or simply don't give a shit until it's too late. An ingame feedback system that alerts players to possible future changes in advance might help. Is it possible to have an ingame pop-up that links to git when you start up SS13 and says "hey, X is up for merger soon".

Actually I'm pretty sure there is a system that sends in-game notifications when a PR is made.

duncathan wrote:Actually I'm pretty sure there is a system that sends in-game notifications when a PR is made.

Yep! The problem is I think the irc bot that was supposed to do it died. I'll take a look at it.

It might also just be disabled serverside.

There is such a ridiculous amount of cherry picking and exaggeration against coderbus in this thread that it's hard to take most people here seriously.

iamgoofball wrote: http://www.strawpoll.me

>Seriously suggesting strawpoll as a valid polling option

Don't worry about the 3000 votes against your code.
I'm sure I didn't get really bored on my phone one night or anything

iamgoofball wrote:

duncathan wrote:Actually I'm pretty sure there is a system that sends in-game notifications when a PR is made.

Yep! The problem is I think the irc bot that was supposed to do it died. I'll take a look at it.

It might also just be disabled serverside.

No, it would require we add two more irc bots to coderbus's channel, And I just didn't like that idea.

Make it so you can put in the IP and PORT of multiple servers and it would be fine. combine it into the python bots and it would be better