/tg/Station 13

Bottom post of the previous page:

I play security because I like the combat of this game, but then a very wise rock said to me: “Why not just play games with actually good combat systems?” so thats that

Gamarr wrote:There's just no reason to play security. Why would you.
You get shit on by everything including the rules basically.

You answered your own question, in a way

Gamarr wrote:There's just no reason to play security. Why would you.

Because I always wanted to be police as a child. I do like being police. I like catching bad guys, I like making a round better. When I saved the CMO from the non-antag mime, he thanked me and defended me from accusations later, it felt good man, I play sec for shit like this. That other guy above loves combat, I fucking despise combat in this game. Whenever there was War Ops I would kill myself or just ignore it. Extended is the best mode, because either nothing happens or just tide happens (not ending with nuke going off), so I can be police.

If that's validhunting, then so be it. I'm the validhunter.

SOS isn't even running things around here anymore, how bad could it be?

It's not admin problem, it's player problem.

Player problem being you gunning people down as detective lol

Innocents don't get shot.

Weren’t you bwoinked for shooting an innocent in the first place?

Also, I’m curious to see what your definition of “mildly suspicious” is, and why you feel the need to search people as detective because of it.

Lumbermancer wrote:Innocents don't get shot.

Innocent people in the context of the game aren't law abiding citizens, they're players that haven't had a reason to break the law yet. There's not as much gravitas behind breaking space law as a player as opposed to breaking the real law as a real person.

As such, trying to play as a real police officer in a game where people really don't give much of a fuck about the law is going to make you a tryhard, and nobody is going to like you for being a tryhard. If you want to have a more fulfilling time as security, start playing to make situations more interesting for all parties involved instead of playing to win the situation and catch the bad guy. Everyone in SS13 is the bad guy eventually, and if you're against the whole station, you're not really securing anything.

I realize this is just personal experience but I have never once been bwoinked for my actions as a security member. I've had a couple instances where the admin just wanted me to to give my side of a story but even those are very rare. It helps if you don't play "silent security" and wordlessly arrest people so that they at least have some context as to why you're doing what you're doing.

From an administrative end I seem to get ahelps not about every single security officer, but only about a handful of repeat names that pop up. This doesn't necessarily mean those officers are BAD or doing anything WRONG, but it DOES mean that the way they're going about handling cases is probably not the best way of doing things.

Bottom line if you want to play security expect to be hated against, expect the occasional ahelp, and handle your business professionally like a real cop would and it'll minimize the bwoinks you receive (within reason of course, there's always exceptions where you need to act as quickly as possible)

In my limited experience as security, I find that when I try to be overly pro-active about things people hate me. Searching people doing suspicious things might net you a valid every once in a while, but mostly it's just people trying to get what they want for the round. The rounds are much more enjoyable for me and for others when I am more of a reactive security, simply taking note of people doing shady things and then only intervening when asked or when imminent danger is evident.

The downside is obviously that you're waiting for bad people to do bad things, but I don't necessarily think "The game happening" is overall a bad situation. Letting other people make the first move often puts you in a far more interesting situation than stifling any in-round conflict that could happen by having pre-cognition and confiscating all things harmful and traitorous before they can be put to use.

For example, you COULD strip-search that chemist who is loitering outside of engineering out of nowhere, or you could just take note and if there's a report of hellfoam or an explosion around that area, you have someone to look for and less of a reason to be ahelped when you do catch him, as well as any brownie points people give you for helping out with a potential bombing victim. You've still done a good job as sec and caught the bad guy in the end, you just don't have the risk of a false alarm making everyone hate you.

That's just what I think, anyways.

Hulkamania wrote:It helps if you don't play "silent security" and wordlessly arrest people so that they at least have some context as to why you're doing what you're doing.

literally just cuff people and then ask them what the fuck they were doing and you're automatically less shit than most people on tgstation - if you can't ask them what they were doing because there's a big mess going on then get them out of there and say you'll be back in a second or something

i've accidentally arrested innocent people in conflicts multiple times but by explaining that i didn't know who the aggressor was at first they're almost always understanding and get why I did what I did because I fucking pushed the T button to interact with people in the multiplayer videogame

wesoda25 wrote:Weren’t you bwoinked for shooting an innocent in the first place?

No, I was bwoinked because admin thought I gunned down a lizard into crit to arrest him, while he was accidentally put into crit by me shooting offscreen, at the mime who stole him away from me from in front of the brig. In fact, I gave the innocent lizard a chance to surrender, but he legged.

Hulkamania wrote:It helps if you don't play "silent security" and wordlessly arrest people so that they at least have some context as to why you're doing what you're doing.

Yeah, I do this all the god damn time. I will stand in front of cell repeating to someone why there were arrested, and they will just keep throwing shit at me. It doesn't matter. Even in the round you have graciously struck me down, everyone was informed as to why I was doing what I was doing.

90% of people who interact with in negative way are people who can't follow simple orders. Fuck, I even thank people if they consent to search on their own.

lol by your logic I can walk up to people I hate, claim they were suspicious, tell them not to run, and when they do run its a green flag for the gun to come out.

btw preach vatz. To be fair though, I don’t think Lumber is total shit sec, hes normally pretty up front about shit he does. I’d say he definitely leans more towards the proactive sec officer though.

God damn but I don't do things for no reason.

I ask Cat to give me scientist ID, she says he doesn't have it, well fine but people lie so the natural thing would be just show me backpack and be done with it in seconds, not run away.
I am told by HoS to check SM for sabotage, I see lizard who pokes his head out of maint as I talk with atmos tech, sees me, then runs back into maint. So when I catch up to lizard, and tell him to *surrender because I have to search him. because he is lurking in engineering maint as I am checking for sabotage, the natural thing would be just to let me search oneself and be done with it in seconds, not run away.

Fuck, this is so frustrating. I don't search for fun (EXCEPT THAT ONE TIME I USED MAGIC EIGHTBALL AND GOT NOTE FOR IT), and don't shoot people for sport. I complain every round I have to do security work as a detective. I don't even main security anymore.

All I want is for greytide mains who ahelp for basically anything SEC related to get hit with banbaiting.

There are reasonable ones, but it still feels like most of the bwoinks I've gotten while playing SEC are when some habitual shitter ahelps after getting killed at the end of some rampage where they break into the captain's office two minutes into the round, attack SEC officers, steal a gun, etc. Haven't gotten banned or noted because I try not to kill without a good reason, but ahelping in bad faith after spending the round tiding hoping that the SEC player who stopped you gets banned as revenge is shitty and should be punished.

tbf tiders who ahelp 99% of anything are complete cancer. If you got caught it's because you weren't good enough faggot
I think the only time I've ahelped sec in 300 hours of tiding is when a bunch of us non-violently walked into perma with AI's help to save our brethren that Fred was executing, only for him to summarily yeet us all out the airlock.

I just came back after a very long hiatus and just got done playing Sec enough to unlock HoS and I probably won't get back to it. It's especially the greytiding shitters that start whining about being killed when you prod them with a stunbaton, constantly and without end or lying straight to your face even when you call them out on it. I haven't killed anybody and a lot of the crew were civil and cooperative when I asked to search their bags or helped me take down tiders when they outnumbered me, but I just don't want to deal with constant tiders. It's especially great when they commit suicide when you slap them with a 3 minute timer and take their toolbelt away.
In my last match I had a fellow officer who was basically a greytider with a harmbaton and uniform (I do believe he got jobbanned, but I can't know for sure) and an incompetent detective who lethally injected a prisoner in an attempt to subdue them (leading the Warden to demote them), leaving me and the Warden alone against some kind of Ghettorev, 6 or 7 crew ranks breaking into the brig and attacking us. As I spent most of the round chasing two specific tiders I didn't get to pay too much attention to ;chat so I don't know what caused them to do it, but they weren't antags. Of course the cries of shitcurity were loud in OOC after that round.
I want to keep order on the station and throw traitors in Perma and force lings to take the monkey transform to humiliate them before cremating them, not defend the brig against crew. I haven't gotten any bwoinks but I can fully understand why you (or anyone, really) doesn't want to play Sec.

Grazyn wrote:The interesting thing is that taser removal is actually gonna be a buff to sec. Taser mode is a newb trap, disabler is almost always superior thanks to the slow down which makes subsequent hits easier, higher capacity and longer stun. Taser also makes friendly fire much worse, while a single stray hit of disabler won't immediately put your fellow officers out of the fight. Taser is only good to get the jump on someone who is staying almost stationary, but then you can just walk up to him and use your baton.

All in all, now newbs will be forced to use disablers and sec efficiency will inevitably go up.

Im glad someone's saying it

I remember when an assistant was screwing with sec because he thought we murdered his friend. Once we arrested him, I let him go and showed him around brig to make it clear we didn’t have any bodies and told him all I knew, and promised to keep an eye out. Eventually I learned an officer DID space him unnecessarily and he was right, but by then it was too late. That made me feel far more satisfied than just permaing the shitters ever could. Now I try to be as understanding as possible and give chances to those who give me a chance. I flip my shit sometimes when it dominoes like *arresting an assistant for breaking into cargo*->SHITCURITY ARRESTING FRANK FOR NO REASON-> entire brig has to deal with self antagging unfunny memelords. That doesn’t always happen though, so I have something to live for.

oranges wrote:

Grazyn wrote:The interesting thing is that taser removal is actually gonna be a buff to sec. Taser mode is a newb trap, disabler is almost always superior thanks to the slow down which makes subsequent hits easier, higher capacity and longer stun. Taser also makes friendly fire much worse, while a single stray hit of disabler won't immediately put your fellow officers out of the fight. Taser is only good to get the jump on someone who is staying almost stationary, but then you can just walk up to him and use your baton.

All in all, now newbs will be forced to use disablers and sec efficiency will inevitably go up.

Im glad someone's saying it

I've been saying this literally since my first post in the PR

It's true. You can't beat a disabler. Your fucked if one hits

confused rock wrote: I flip my shit sometimes when it dominoes like *arresting an assistant for breaking into cargo*->SHITCURITY ARRESTING FRANK FOR NO REASON-> entire brig has to deal with self antagging unfunny memelords. That doesn’t always happen though, so I have something to live for.

I remember a time it was just me a normal SEC officer and the HoS during a round where this exact scenario was happening and the 3-4 self-antagging memelords turned into half the crew tiding the brig shouting RISE UP GAMERS. The HoS said fuck it because we were about to get overrun and authorized lethals. We shotgunned every last greytider down until it was two of us atop a pile of corpses in the brig. I didn't get a single bwoink and OOC after the round was about as salty as you can imagine about "shitcurity".

Also, I've been using disablers for a long while now preferentially over tasers but I still used tasers occasionally, mostly for camping doors/quickdraw in a hallway for a surprise insta-drop. I'm a little sad they're being taken out but whatever.

nohly heck schlomo gaskin got pont????\
im gonan put my too scents in here and say that detcurity bad even though this has already been said by unloved and multiple other people and the excuse that "oh if they dont act like sec they're useless" is bullshit
detectives are either a; the most validy people on sec or lazy
theres alvvays a inbetvveen here they actually do their job
thats my too cents and i dot understand anyhting other then "lumbermancer validhunter" because my brains melted from all the kooky chemicals in my fluoride ater

As a guy who likes Botany, Xenobio, and Chemistry. It's because there's a whole lot you can experiment with.

For security, there's very little of that.

How do we fix this?


Add more imprisonment methods. Paxification was a good one, and so is the hard and rarely used Chemical Implant. We sort of lost the Exile since gateway is closed. and I think the electro pack needs a buff in being harder to remove.

Shadowflame909 wrote:As a guy who likes Botany, Xenobio, and Chemistry. It's because there's a whole lot you can experiment with.

For security, there's very little of that.

How do we fix this?


Add more imprisonment methods. Paxification was a good one, and so is the hard and rarely used Chemical Implant. We sort of lost the Exile since gateway is closed. and I think the electro pack needs a buff in being harder to remove.

I used meatspikes instead of cells for one round, which was pretty great. But yeah, there's little to do with sec besides going around beating up tiders or the occasional antag. Giving sec more toys or ways to get better/more toys would just make people complain anyway.