/tg/Station 13

Bottom post of the previous page:

Takeguru wrote:Murdering someone just because they have a syndie balloon is reaching pretty hard, to be honest.

It's not like it's a lethal tool like an ebow or something, and they honestly could have just picked it up.

At most, detain and search them for other stuff, but just jumping straight to "Balloon! Must be traitor!" is pretty shit

Jobban people who do shit like this often. Why be so strict with rules if you can just get stop, and get rid of if you have to, the people who ruin it for everyone else?

It's a balloon with an S on it

It's literally a red balloon with a letter on it, you're murdering someone for having a balloon.

I think we might have gone a bit off the rails with this balloon situation, yeah, that's pretty shitty, and I wouldn't mess with it, but c'mon, what was the balloon buyer thinking? Most people who buy them yackity sax for no other reason than to play games with the people who pursue them.

It's announcing you are a traitor for no other purpose than to fuck with people, or to get mad when you get chased down for it.
Nobody has bought that balloon without knowing that it was likely to get them robusted, and crying foul after the fact is a bit silly isn't it?
It serves no purpose other than to be a literal big red flag for valid-hunters, and shaming people for acting on it is counter to that singular purpose.

Is it really worth your time to defend someone who is hiding behind MAH RP!!!! to just fuck around with a shiny balloon? or is it more applicable to shame them for wasting everyones time by wasting their traitor slot so they could make some grand statement about play2win validhunters not letting them go when they deliberately blew their own cover?

Do you really want to force people to play dumb to the fact that that balloon is a confirmation of antagonistic status? the people who buy them don't, or they wouldn't bother, the people who grab them after and continue the shenanigans don't either, The singular time I've even clicked a balloon I was random naming, as a mime, and some dudes were beating the guy down, I snagged it, and yackity sax until a different guy from the first beatdown caught me, I knew it was gonna happen, and it was funny, I held no illusions that I was safe parading it around, and anyone who does is retarded.

Falamazeer wrote:Nobody has bought that balloon without knowing that it was likely to get them robusted, and crying foul after the fact is a bit silly isn't it?

This, buying that is basically advertising "I'm valid, what are you gonna do about it?"
Another problem is if Shitclown Traitorpants gets killed after buying it, random greyshirt grabs it and starts running to the bridge to give to the captain or something in exchange for all access. How many people are going to try and robust and space the greyshirt because they saw him run past medbay with a balloon? Would you say just having the balloon at all makes you valid? Is it reasonable to see people immediately drop whatever they're doing to go bash a guy on the vague concept of valids?

if your reasoning for whether something is okay rulewise is "does it make sense?" then that's pretty shitty.

Quite. The reason killing someone with a balloon is particularly shit is because most balloonists aren't necessarily traitors. They just picked it up because they like the associations it brings.

Having said that, holding a balloon is a literal invitation for other people to watch you like a hawk, I mean, like an owl.

AdenAbrafo wrote:if your reasoning for whether something is okay rulewise is "does it make sense?" then that's pretty shitty.

It was more legitimate questions as to what people think about it.

People might balk at it because we're edgy and space-tough, but the term 'sportsmanship' really is the best summary IMO.

In such a case where you're being a bad sport, whether or not you think the policy covers you, don't be shocked if your shit just starts to vanish.

And I don't mean murdering people if you're the traitor. Or executing traitors who go out in a blaze of glory. i mean things like total genocide on lowpop followed by a refusal to call the shuttle, chainspamming recalls especially if you disassemble or move the console or hide it, hidden WGW reading in a maint locker, you know. Or saying things like 'ooc Captain's the traitor, enjoy guys ; )' then logging out.

Because if it's not about what's right or okay or valid anymore, you've turned SS13 into 'exploiting the game's systems without any other considerations'. And if it's just about that? Well, I have godlike powers and I don't like you. Good luck.

Don't call it a grave, it's the judgement calls from admins you pleaded for us to do rather than adhering to the letter of numerous inflexible regulations and rules.

At least, until somebody wants to justify being an extra-normal shit to others with said letters of said rules.

Cheimon wrote:Quite. The reason killing someone with a balloon is particularly shit is because most balloonists aren't necessarily traitors. They just picked it up because they like the associations it brings.

Having said that, holding a balloon is a literal invitation for other people to watch you like a hawk, I mean, like an owl.

They are acting like a traitor but it is a safe way where admins back them up and they get to laugh at people getting banned possibly.

Only reason to pick it up of a traitor is to maybe get yourself killed and ban bait a guy it looks like trash has no function and nothing forces you to pick it up.

Not that i want them killed per se but their intent is to banbait same as the original traitor without the gloating because you didn't blow points buying it and at best robbed a defeatist traitor, the only real reason to touch it is to get a somewhat inexperienced officer banned.

How is this person squatting around waiting for some gullible rube to come by for a banning not a bad sportsman?

Because you don't have to kill him just because he has itm

That's what he wants to happen though.

That's the thing about the balloon; it's a symbol of Valid. It was deliberately purchased by somebody, and that's the message it sends, and every single person in TG down to the new people understands that. So either you purchased it to hold, or you found it and began to hold it. Which means you chose to declare yourself Valid.

Which means I'm not going to help you if somebody obliges.

It's directly equivalent in everything but the sheer level of annoyance to WGW. "But it's absurd for people to kill other people IRL for reading porn over the work radio!"

don't hold the ultimate symbol of 'please kill me' if you don't want to die

... Or are at least willing to sit down and shut up and shrug it off when it happens rather than asking me to ban somebody from the game for it.

The whole point of the balloon is to show off. When you buy it, you're saying "I'm a traitor, come at me faggots." You're advertising that you're an antag and that you're ready for whatever the crew throws at you. It's not the crew's fault you were ill prepared.

Well, I generally buy a balloon to say "fuck it, I'll improvise, now let me blow my TCs on something I know won't help me."

Incomptinence wrote:If it is widely supported opinion among admins and players that you need to let the baloon man go isn't their intent in spawning the balloon to banbait?

I mean I ignore them myself but if pro balloon policy is enforced it is basically institutionalized banbaiting.

you cant ahelp being killed over a balloon but you can be salty about it in deadchat and ooc i think

If you spawn the balloon and proceed to run around, fuck up the station, dunk security and do your objectives then you are a tator with style.

If you spawn the balloon and just wander around the primary hallways until sec gets bored and beats you to death you're just an idiot.

ColonicAcid wrote:What I'm getting from these two is that they're afraid of dying.
That is one of the core aspects of SS13, and you are afraid of it. That is not a healthy attitude to have, you should play ss13 like you play DF. Stop this whole belief that dying is a horrible thing and the bane of humanity. It's not. For every 10 "lmao get stunned and die" deaths there's that one death, the one perfect death which just makes up for it.

Stop this attitude, it's toxic to the community and it's what's causing us to go down the path of utter shit.

You do realise what you've just said is an absolutely retarded double standard right?

If security shouldn't be afraid of dying then why isn't the same applied to traitors?

As for balloons

Roleplay can be used to justify anything as long as it fits the setting.
People always forget the setting of the game.
It's 500 years in the future, things will be different to today - 500 years in the past it was okay to own negroes and genocide of natives was an acceptable colonisation practice.

Nanotrasen is a massive corporate government, that is largely dystopian in nature, and isn't averse to making entire installations disappear through use of death squads.

Now visualise this: I'm a faceless security mook working for them, suddenly I see someone running about with a red balloon with an S on it - the symbol of my enemy.
"An enemy agent? Showing off enemy propaganda? ON MY STATION??? Better hunt him down and make an example out of him.
Someone grab the balloon and is now running around with it? Must be another agent or a sympathizer, better hunt him down and really make an example out of him!"

And do you really think NT is going to give two shits that you field executed an enemy agent, thus saving them a fuck ton of money in legal fees?
They'd probably give you a medal, maybe even a promotion.


The people that go "but it was only a balloon!" are the exact same reason why I had to add both trespass and breaking & entering to space law. "i dint break in, the wall was already busted officer"



I find it really funny that the latest buzz word to go with power gamer, play2win, valid seeker is "bad sportsmanship"
The previous words were completely made up, meaningless words you could apply your whiney meanings to freely.

But sportsmanship?
Is an actual word, an actual term, with existing meanings.

If a boxer does everything he can to win his bout he's not a bad sportsman, unless he hits below the belt
If a racer does everything he can to win the race he's not a bad sportsman, unless he rams other racers off the track
A football team that does everything they can to win the match are not bad sports men, unless they're doing dirty tackles to injure the opponents best players


Fighting to win, racing to win, playing to win are not examples of bad sportsmanship.
Being a low down dirty cheating son of a bitch is.

Calling the shuttle to test for malf/rev is bad sportsmanship
Doing donuts around the station to find the op shuttle is bad sportsmanship
Locking down toxins, safe proofing atmos, securing objectives at round stay... yeah, I'd say those are bad sportsmanship

But you know what else is bad sportsmanship?
Being an insufferable dick when you win and a mewling cry baby when you lose

Security playing their ROLE to the best of their abilities is not bad sportsmanship.
Security finishing off their opponents is not bad sportsmanship - did you know there are actually martial arts tournaments where if you don't finish off your opponent after you've downed them you actually lose points?

For me one of the biggest issues surrounds executions and releasing people.

I know there is a policy thread on it but I don't really feel it's bad sportsmanship to stop someone releasing people from perma or finishing off a dude instead of letting him exist as a thread.

9 times out of 10 that person you let live or let go is going to come back and take you by surprise.

Saegrimr wrote: So you go and toss a cuffed guy out an airlock.
Then what? Go home?

No, you give them every disability under the sun, a tracking+chem implant and fill them up with LSD then release them, using the implant to make sure they stay topped up on LSD.

Honk.

Tornadium wrote:For me one of the biggest issues surrounds executions and releasing people.

I know there is a policy thread on it but I don't really feel it's bad sportsmanship to stop someone releasing people from perma or finishing off a dude instead of letting him exist as a thread.

9 times out of 10 that person you let live or let go is going to come back and take you by surprise.

If you know that a certain person is out to get you, prepare for them.

TwitchTail13 wrote:

Tornadium wrote:For me one of the biggest issues surrounds executions and releasing people.

I know there is a policy thread on it but I don't really feel it's bad sportsmanship to stop someone releasing people from perma or finishing off a dude instead of letting him exist as a thread.

9 times out of 10 that person you let live or let go is going to come back and take you by surprise.

If you know that a certain person is out to get you, prepare for them.

You realize most of the time they will come back and get you while you're otherwise preoccupied? Say fighting another antagonist or attempting to arrest someone?

Most of them aren't stupid enough to straight up 1v1 you.

You can't really prepare if they're trying to take you by surprise or at a disadvantage, Unless you want me to go the way of fucking Oldman and have an implanted bomb in my chest for that purpose.

im going to play the video game

not everyone wins at the video game

when i lose i dont be a sore loser, i accept that i lost and move on with life and try again next round

if i happen to win at the video game, and you dont win, well too fucking bad, stop being a pussy, man up, and win the game next time instead of whining like a little bitch until shit goes your way like a fucking 6 year old does

this post is probably going to be reported to hell and back for being too hostile but fuck it, this needed said

tl;dr stop being whiny faggot 6 year olds over losing the video game

If you're not a shit to the antag, and the antag isn't being a prissy shit, they're exceedingly unlikely to 'come back and murder you' if you parolle them or whatever.
Sure they might end up killing you incidentially, but they're not going to be out of their way to come and murder you for not powergaming and executing them as soon as possible.

But guess what, when you go out of your way to be a cunt (like me when people come into my work space), people are far more likely to hold a grudge.

lumipharon wrote:If you're not a shit to the antag, and the antag isn't being a prissy shit, they're exceedingly unlikely to 'come back and murder you' if you parolle them or whatever.
Sure they might end up killing you incidentially, but they're not going to be out of their way to come and murder you for not powergaming and executing them as soon as possible.

But guess what, when you go out of your way to be a cunt (like me when people come into my work space), people are far more likely to hold a grudge.

People already treat you like a cunt when you arrest them for legitimate crime.

The amount of times people whine in the forums about getting the time stated in space law for their crime is staggering.

lumipharon wrote:If you're not a shit to the antag, and the antag isn't being a prissy shit, they're exceedingly unlikely to 'come back and murder you' if you parolle them or whatever.
Sure they might end up killing you incidentially, but they're not going to be out of their way to come and murder you for not powergaming and executing them as soon as possible.

But guess what, when you go out of your way to be a cunt (like me when people come into my work space), people are far more likely to hold a grudge.

Do you play Security?

If the answer is yes, then you're talking out of your ass.

If no, then play security and experience the joy.

You release a confirmed antag, they will at some point come back. It may not be directed at you, might be at the Captain, HoS or another officer. They WILL come back.

As above, if you arrest someone for a legitimate reason (Even as far as murder) they will scream and hold a grudge against you.

It's not about winning, it's the body count that matters.

srifenbyxp wrote:It's not about winning, it's the body count that matters.

It's more about being able to actually play the game rather than sitting for 30 minutes in dead chat because some people think security should intentionally play like complete fucking retards to make things "fair"

I dunno if anyone's telling you not to play to win as if it's morally reprehensible to them - I think they're just telling you that they don't play to win and get a different type of enjoyment out of it that they want to share with you.

Doing stupid things and seeing what comes out of it has given me a lot of fun in some rounds where playing to win would not, and powergaming or w/e buzzword we're using right now has given me fun the other approach would have lacked too!

newfren wrote:I dunno if anyone's telling you not to play to win as if it's morally reprehensible to them - I think they're just telling you that they don't play to win and get a different type of enjoyment out of it that they want to share with you.

Doing stupid things and seeing what comes out of it has given me a lot of fun in some rounds where playing to win would not, and powergaming or w/e buzzword we're using right now has given me fun the other approach would have lacked too!

I received multiple warnings from admins to stop powergaming as security.

Doing what kind of stupid things? If you're doing them as security you're not only fucking yourself over but you're fucking the rest of security over in a pretty big way.

Oh, I guess this isn't a thread about playing to win, it's a thread about "Security VS Valids: The struggle"

The title should be adjusted to "Security VS Valids".

CPTANT wrote:

lumipharon wrote:If you're not a shit to the antag, and the antag isn't being a prissy shit, they're exceedingly unlikely to 'come back and murder you' if you parolle them or whatever.
Sure they might end up killing you incidentially, but they're not going to be out of their way to come and murder you for not powergaming and executing them as soon as possible.

But guess what, when you go out of your way to be a cunt (like me when people come into my work space), people are far more likely to hold a grudge.

People already treat you like a cunt when you arrest them for legitimate crime.

The amount of times people whine in the forums about getting the time stated in space law for their crime is staggering.

If you're folling space law and brigging people for the full tie stated there, for all the awful fucking crimes it lists, then yes, I am not surprised that everyone treats you like a cunt - because that is called being a cunt.

Tornadium wrote:
Do you play Security?

If the answer is yes, then you're talking out of your ass.

If no, then play security and experience the joy.

You release a confirmed antag, they will at some point come back. It may not be directed at you, might be at the Captain, HoS or another officer. They WILL come back.

As above, if you arrest someone for a legitimate reason (Even as far as murder) they will scream and hold a grudge against you.

I played purely sec for like, a year. So I amspeaking from experience.
If I found antags I would dunk them and arrest them, but as time went on, I wouldn't perma them (and never execute unless there was a damn good reason to not perma) unless they were an actual violent criminal/trying to sabotage the station.

Several times I've recruited captured traitors into sec, and they've loyally followed my orders for the rest of the round.
NEVER, when I've done this, have they ever stabbed me in the back. Why? Because I treat them nicely, and let them *gasp* have FUN in a video game.

Half my time as warden was reducing sentences or out right releasing people that had been brigged for shitty reasons or for unreasonable times.
If someone is breaking windows to get in a place, you give them a warning (the first time), not brigging them 2 minutes for every window damaged.
One will get you called shitcurity and fuck off one of the crew for fucking no reason, the other won't.
Once you've given someone a warning not to do something, and they do it anyway, then they have literally nothing in their defence and you can then brig their asses.

SECURITY IS THERE TO ENSURE THE CREW ARE MORE OR LESS SAFE, NOT TO ENFORCE SPACE LAW AND BRIG PEOPLE.
Brigging people is incidental to this, not required by it.

now watch as tornadium denies your experiences because HE gets shit when he plays sec, oho!

so if I discuss the actual topic, which is "play 2 win, why shouldn't I?", i get ignored

but if i discuss offtopic "muh security" and random ban appeals/requests, it's fine?

>Be snarky in a post close to a month ago
>84 replies later

Neat.

Anyway, I have nothing against play2win, even if it's boring to watch, I just feel like there's times when playing2win is silly.
Like my comment about the syndie balloon.
And then people like Malkevin try to justify playing2win/dunking the nonantag with a balloon with "RP" makes me laugh
Yes I'm aware the balloon makes you valid

I'm not going to address the rest of your post, because you're really not that far off point with a lot of it, we're not the fun police, Unless that fun is garnered directly at the expense of someone elses fun.

lumipharon wrote:Half my time as warden was reducing sentences or out right releasing people that had been brigged for shitty reasons or for unreasonable times.

this little gem right here, It's really your worst offense, signing onto security just to break it from the inside, I've dealt with plenty of your ilk and you are legitimately the worst type of shitcurity, jamming your authority boner into every arrest that the 'jackbooted gestapo' has performed under close scrutiny, promptly ignoring legitimate reasoning and silently releasing people. Get the fuck out of my force. we got enough people weighted against the redshirts without interferance from within. I rarely interfere with other sec, even if I quitely but vocally disapprove because I'm not so arrogant as to think that I know the entire situation, or that an officer has the time to re-explain his actions for every fuck like me who might not have noticed.

When you waltz into security with the arrogant know it all attitude you so clearly have with the ASS-sumption that you alone stand between the crew and the horrible buggery that the redshit army wants to unleash on them, you need to re-evaluate why you play this role. Sure, there are plenty of actual shitcurity players, and they need to be adressed, and your attitude might have flown in 2010, but these days, you're fucking with and kicking the legs out from under the majority who are trying to do good things, or help the station continue to hobble along it's broken jagged path.

lumipharon wrote:If someone is breaking windows to get in a place, you give them a warning (the first time), not brigging them 2 minutes for every window damaged.
One will get you called shitcurity and fuck off one of the crew for fucking no reason, the other won't.
Once you've given someone a warning not to do something, and they do it anyway, then they have literally nothing in their defence and you can then brig their asses.

Nope, warnings is just that, warnings, Most people take a warning as notification to take precautions against getting caught a second time, or to gear up in case they are caught and to be prepared to fight/run.
In this laggy, lightning paced shitbox we call a game, fore-warning that security is on to your bullshit is throwing out your best weapon, Surprise.

lumipharon wrote:SECURITY IS THERE TO ENSURE THE CREW ARE MORE OR LESS SAFE, NOT TO ENFORCE SPACE LAW AND BRIG PEOPLE.
Brigging people is incidental to this, not required by it.

Space law aside, brigging is not an incentive to stop someone from being a cock but a good proper time out is usually needed so you can move on to other things albeit temporarily.

lumipharon wrote:Several times I've recruited captured traitors into sec, and they've loyally followed my orders for the rest of the round.
NEVER, when I've done this, have they ever stabbed me in the back. Why? Because I treat them nicely, and let them *gasp* have FUN in a video game.

Wait... are you a basil-lite? because this shit will not, and has not ever flown on main.
If you meant sybil, surely you cannot expect any actual regular security to choke this comment down and accept it as anything less than the crock of shit it is.

Never betrayed? in all caps no less. You are one funny guy.

Every time I've recruited a traitor (fuck lings though), it's been on sybil - always with cap(when I was HoS) or Hos (when I was warden) approval.

Falamazeer wrote: this little gem right here, It's really your worst offense, signing onto security just to break it from the inside, I've dealt with plenty of your ilk and you are legitimately the worst type of shitcurity, jamming your authority boner into every arrest that the 'jackbooted gestapo' has performed under close scrutiny, promptly ignoring legitimate reasoning and silently releasing people. Get the fuck out of my force. we got enough people weighted against the redshirts without interferance from within. I rarely interfere with other sec, even if I quitely but vocally disapprove because I'm not so arrogant as to think that I know the entire situation, or that an officer has the time to re-explain his actions for every fuck like me who might not have noticed.

When you waltz into security with the arrogant know it all attitude you so clearly have with the ASS-sumption that you alone stand between the crew and the horrible buggery that the redshit army wants to unleash on them, you need to re-evaluate why you play this role. Sure, there are plenty of actual shitcurity players, and they need to be adressed, and your attitude might have flown in 2010, but these days, you're fucking with and kicking the legs out from under the majority who are trying to do good things, or help the station continue to hobble along it's broken jagged path.

When I am the warden, or the HOS, then yes, yes it is my job to make sure my officers are not brigging people for shitty reason. If I'm a sec officer and I see another sec officer doing shitty briggings, I report it to the HoS or warden.
I do not 'wordlessly release prisoners'.
I talk to the sec officer about why a person is being brigged (letting officer wordless brig people is fucking awful), and if it's a shitty reason, or a shitty duration, I'll talk to the person, and the officer, and often reduce the sentence or let them go with a warning.

For example (has happened more then one):

Sec officer brings in clown and puts him in a cell for 5 minutes.
As warden, I ask why he is doing this.
Officer says clown slipped him.
I ask him how many times
>once
I tell the officer to not waste their time with such petty shit and release the clown with a warning not to do it again.

If you believe that this sort of minor shit (not slipping him while arrestin someone, just randomly down the hall once) is worth the time to brig the damn clown, and that I'm being 'shitcurity' for releasing them with a warning, then you are a fundamental issue with why people say shitcurity to begin with.

lumipharon wrote:Every time I've done it, it's been on sybil - always with cap(when I was HoS) or Hos (when I was warden) approval.

Remember when I said crock of shit? Feel encouraged to re-read that and it's related lines.

lumipharon wrote: When I am the warden, or the HOS, then yes, yes it is my job to make sure my officers are not brigging people for shitty reason.
I do not 'wordlessly release prisoners'
I talk to the sec officer about why a person is being brigged (letting officer wordless brig people is fucking awful), and if it's a shitty reason, or a shitty duration, I'll talk to the person, and the officer, and often reduce the sentence or let them go with a warning.

For example (has happened more then one):

Sec officer brings in clown and puts him in a cell for 5 minutes.
As warden, I ask why he is doing this.
Officer says clown slipped him.
I ask him how many times
>once
I tell the officer to not waste their time with such petty shit and release the clown with a warning not to do it again.

lumipharon wrote:If you believe that this sort of minor shit (not slipping him while arrestin someone, just randomly down the hall once) is worth the time to brig the damn clown, and that I'm being 'shitcurity' for releasing them with a warning, then you are a fundamental issue with why people say shitcurity to begin with.

Yeah, no shit nobody is going to argue a five minute sentence for a single slip is excessive.
Your example is clearly tilted, and meritless, and is a whole other matter entirely to the implications of your original words, As I don't know your IC character (Except the obvious, when you used to run around as your OOC name) I can't say for sure, but I've had plenty of HoS/wardens releasing my hard won prisoners, and they shared your attitude to a T. that being what I described already as being the heroes of the station saving the crew from the depridations of the shitcurity officers at large.

People like you taking it too far in their pursuit of their ideals of security as it should operate are a motherfucking plague, releasing repeat shitlers, assaulters and dickheads for lack of evidence, or simply just choosing to ignore eyewitness testimony, or only hearing by only asking for the singular side of the victim.

I'm assuming you are of the shithead prisoner freeing pursuasion and not the example clown prisoner freeing kind because you specifically said you played dominately security for a year and I have played dominate security for five, and I've never encountered a prisoner free-er who was not a complete and total bag of dicks.
I've seen disconnected singular instances of it, but nothing like you are describing.

If people are being shitters I don't brig them - I gulag them and hope they ghost rather then spend 5 minutes mining to earn their freedom.

But the amount of people that get brigged for petty, pointless shit that is seriously not even worth the sec officer's time draggin them to the brig (especially recently) is absolutely insane.

I'm talking shit like the above, brigging someone for taking some metal from EVA, or gloves from tech storage, shit like that. A few weeks ago, I got arrested SEVEN TIMES in the span of about 40 minutes, for 'breaking into EVA' despite the captain personally letting me in, and the HoS authorising it over sec comms after the first time I got arrested.

If people are actually shitter, I fucking shit on them back twice as hard - I'll gulag or perma them.
If I let someone off with a warning, and they immediatelly turn around and screamin shitcurity/trying to disarm me, I re-arrest them and put them in for double the time.

But the point is I am lenient on first offences.
I am lenient on people when they act polite and aren't dicks.

On the other hand I will happily keep increasing someone's sentence if they continue to harrass me as warden while they're in a cell - I drop the hammer on shitters, not on people just having fun with the game.

edit: And christ, where is all this coming from about ignoring evidence/testimonies/releasing repeat offenders coming from?
That is not what I am saying at all.

If a sec officer says someone assaulted them, the person denies it and there is no other evidence/witnesses, I am going to believe my sec officer (unless he's a proven cunt, in which case they usually are already demoted).
What I AM saying, is if the sec officer is brigging the guy for 10 minutes for punching him a few times, that's way to harsh, and I'm going to tell the office that, and reduce the timer.

Five minutes is the correct sentence for that clown, doesn't matter if he punched you, shoved you, or slipped you it's still assault of an officer
You're damn right if someone puts me in a very vulnerable state, just for the lolz, I'm not going to think twice about throwing them in for the full sentence. Especially a degenerate clown

I re-iterate.

Falamazeer wrote: I'm assuming you are of the shithead prisoner freeing pursuasion and not the example clown prisoner freeing kind because you specifically said you played dominately security for a year and I have played dominate security for five, and I've never encountered a prisoner free-er who was not a complete and total bag of dicks.
I've seen disconnected singular instances of it, but nothing like you are describing.

Basically when you say specifically half your time as the warden is reducing sentences, I don't think of those minority few times when someone arrested the clown for slipping him once, I think of every other time some little pissant shitcrew joined up in a round as the warden or HoS to cut timers, which is the norm for timer cutters, and if you did this dominately for a year, the only way you did it without my notice was either on basil, or as everyone else has, being a huge bag of dicks, Because there has NEVER been a repeat sec interferer who wasn't one, within my view on sybil.

Your example of metal from EVA or gloves from tech storage are shit, because either A they got them legitimately via AI or access in which case there isn't a security response to it. or B they broke in, in which case I doubt anyone gives a fuck they took metal glass or gloves, the problem is they busted a hole where they shouldn't, and first offense or not, they go to the brig, because the only reason NOT to just ask the AI is because you felt like it would be funnier to break shit.


And as to the rest of it that's what most people do, Mirror their prisoner, I'm good with people who are good with me. and I see the same with most other people.

@malkevin I dunno, kinda depends on intent, if he just did it to see what I'd do, I might toss him a lighthearded disabler or nothing at all, Depends how vulnerable he left me, where he slipped me, and the feel of it. Getting slipped and honked at right next to another officer who can back me up, or where I'm unlikely to get mugged is not worth a brigging. Leaving me vulnerable to robbing somewhere likely to be found in those few seconds is pretty bad. Depends on how likely he was to slip me again/fuck with another officer.

Falamazeer unless you're being really smart stupid and le ironic faec xd youre a fucking faggot.

like that whole "you're the thing rotting security from the inside" bullshit made me actually close my eyes and count to 10 to calm down.
stop
digging
yourself
a
hole

ColonicAcid wrote:My opinions on security should be kept to myself as I play on a server with a light population, and very different interaction between crew and security. Furthermore, I extend a personal apology to you falamazeer, for shitting on you on multiple occasions about what we, as two adults, difer in opinion on by virtue of enjoying a game in very different ways with different communities.

Wow, Ok. Accepted.

A grey shirt entering eva via AI is still illegal access to a restricted area, technically.
The AI is obliged to let you in. So according to space law, and many officers, this is a brig worth offence (see my 7 arrests example, holy fuck that was hilariously bad though).
Of course an reasonable human being wouldn't give a shit, since it's inconveniencing precisely no one, and isn't putting anyone in danger.

Half the time is an obvious exaggeration, but it still happens way more then it should.

lumipharon wrote: but it still happens way more then it should.

Point being that this statement is subjective, and people signing up as high rank security to enforce their views on it is a negative thing when it is carried to this point, which it somewhat commonly is.

Wardens and HoSs have authority, and they should, but when it's used to be the lawyer with a gun and access only there to persecute their own men, or as I put it, break security from the inside, those guys are more damaging than most shitcurity, because shitcurity will get shut down by admins, and HoS's/wardens won't, so people happily and often use this tactic, because it's almost literately impossible to grief on this server as long as your target is red.

And somehow, When people release my prisoners without asking the crime, with the notes clearly accessible in their sechuds, If I act against them, I'm the monster.

why are you guys still posting in this thread
the entire concept of it is basically a powergamer saying "hey im a powergamer let's argue"
just stop posting and let the thread die, be free

PKPenguin321 wrote:why are you guys still posting in this thread
the entire concept of it is basically a powergamer saying "hey im a powergamer let's argue"
just stop posting and let the thread die, be free

this isn't even powergamer discussion anymore

it's just "security vs antag: the struggle"

The eternal struggle you mean.

SAo is this thread basically an advertisement for WhiteWolf's newest tabletop - "Security: The Valids"?

Reminder that lumni believes that implanting any random asshole makes them as trustworthy as a starting officer

Malkevin wrote:Reminder that lumni believes that implanting any random asshole makes them as trustworthy as a starting officer

For non-meta reasons, why wouldn't it?