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Re: Cult desperately needs a guide

Posted: Sat May 31, 2014 4:27 pm
by Steelpoint

Bottom post of the previous page:

Video game developers don't write up the wiki's on their game's.

Malk fulfilled all the requirements I would expect of someone making a large scale change to a game mode, by posting a in-depth changelog on every change he made to the game mode. That is more than enough.

Re: Cult desperately needs a guide

Posted: Sat May 31, 2014 4:29 pm
by paprika
Because most games start with tutorials or have manuals that the developers make.

Which is what the wiki guides are.

Re: Cult desperately needs a guide

Posted: Sat May 31, 2014 4:34 pm
by Steelpoint
But he wrote a changelog, which was highly in depth, and detailed exactly everything that was changed or altered in every way.

Look, when I was reading the Security guides on the wiki, I noticed they were out of date, and lacked critical information. What did I do? I complained to the coders who made the changes to stop being entitled, and go update the wiki. In reality I updated the wiki, and gave my own hints and tips along the way. Really easy and enjoyable.

If the issue is of such great concern to you, write up the wiki guide. If not you then someone will inevitable do it as is the nature of wiki's for popular/semi-popular games.

Re: Cult desperately needs a guide

Posted: Sat May 31, 2014 5:15 pm
by Giacom
Please stop saying the word "entitled", it makes me cringe. If the players are requesting a guide on the new changes I do not see anything wrong with it, they just want help with new changes, if you are unable to write a guide then I see nothing wrong with that either, you are only volunteering.

Re: Cult desperately needs a guide

Posted: Sat May 31, 2014 5:29 pm
by kosmos
Of course no one has to do anything, no one is to blame, but I think we all can agree that IF the creator of new stuff would update the wiki entries regarding that stuff, it would be extremely awesome and best for everyone.

It's just that it baffles me that someone spents his free time making awesome stuff for people... and yet doesn't guide the people how to get fully hands-on with the product!
But I don't know shit about coding or anything for that matter.

Re: Cult desperately needs a guide

Posted: Sat May 31, 2014 5:55 pm
by Neerti
The problem is that people are screaming at the creator and it tends to make that person not want to code anymore.

Re: Cult desperately needs a guide

Posted: Sat May 31, 2014 6:13 pm
by paprika
Nobody's screaming -- I simply made the comment that if something is outdated, the responsibility to make a guide naturally befalls the creator of the changes as it seems like a dick move to completely ignore the fact that most players use the wiki and be all 'lol someone will do it not my problem'.

Then malk started screaming about me and the other players who wanted a guide, calling us entitled and ranting like a fucking kicked puppy.

Re: Cult desperately needs a guide

Posted: Sat May 31, 2014 6:28 pm
by bandit
"Because most games start with tutorials or have manuals that the developers make."

Hi! Person whose real-life job is writing here! These manuals notoriously BLOW, and here's why:

1) They're always a last-minute thing
2) The developers might outsource them to people who may not have English as a first language, who may never have played the game, who may not really care, who may not even be that great at their jobs - or maybe they are, but when you have limited info it's hard to write an effective manual, or
3) The developers write the manuals themselves, and they end up being shit because a lot of coders are awful, awful writers. Or maybe they're dyslexic, which is the reason (along with having a full-time job - I kind of feel like maybe you're still in college?) Malk gave for not writing guides right away.

The point is, technical writing (or wiki writing, but same difference really) and coding are entirely different skillsets, and no one is getting paid for doing either.

Re: Cult desperately needs a guide

Posted: Sat May 31, 2014 6:40 pm
by paprika
i'd rather the guide was lazy or bad than completely untouched and outdated. hell, the old guide sucked too.

Re: Cult desperately needs a guide

Posted: Sat May 31, 2014 7:21 pm
by Vekter
Guys, let's get back to actually talking about getting a guide written and less OMG CULT SUCKS/OMG CODERS SUCK.

Re: Cult desperately needs a guide

Posted: Sat May 31, 2014 8:38 pm
by Cipher3
Giacom wrote:Please stop saying the word "entitled", it makes me cringe. If the players are requesting a guide on the new changes I do not see anything wrong with it, they just want help with new changes, if you are unable to write a guide then I see nothing wrong with that either, you are only volunteering.
But they're seriously insulting him over the matter that he didn't write the guide, and then saying how easy it would be for him to have done it, so why didn't they check the changelogs and work on writing it themselves? I dunno man. I figured out the new cult after a couple of rounds once I figured the guide was horribly outdated, and I had a lot of fun with it.

Really, this got way too heated.

Re: Cult desperately needs a guide

Posted: Sat May 31, 2014 9:26 pm
by 420goslingboy69
How about instead of the creators saying "I worked hard, respect me." they should say "I don't give a fuck. I didn't want to write a guide at the time." That's a lot more respectable in my book.

Re: Cult desperately needs a guide

Posted: Sat May 31, 2014 10:01 pm
by Malkevin
Giacom wrote:Please stop saying the word "entitled", it makes me cringe. If the players are requesting a guide on the new changes I do not see anything wrong with it, they just want help with new changes, if you are unable to write a guide then I see nothing wrong with that either, you are only volunteering.
I know its an overused word but in this case its an apt summary of Paprika and Psy, although overly demanding arrogant asshat is probably more fitting.

Asking for a guide is fine, and expected
Asking for help is fine, I have no issue with people PMing questions to me or even "hey malk, I wrote a new guide, can you have a read over it and see if theres anything I missed"

What irks me is that Pap and Psy are moaning and demanding that I *have* to write the guide because I made the changes, like coding for this bunch of ungrateful shits is some sort of golden privilege.
What really gets my goat is that instead of using the massive detailed changelog entry I made for the changes and actually contributing to the 'community project' by updating the guide they instead do nothing for two months before seeing an opportunity to moan. They didn't even ask nicely, they just moaned and expected everything handed to them like an American Tourist (hard to imagine how that stereotype came about...)


My part as a coder is to code the changes responsibly (that means don't make changes that are shit and pointless, ensure the code is as bug free as possible, and that it runs as smoothly as possible, and that changes are properly documented), that's a big job by itself.
Writing guides isn't part of that, that's up to the wiki contributors - a job anyone with a grasp of English can do.
If you don't want to contribute to the wiki then fair enough, but shut the fuck up and don't you even dare thinking about complaining that no one has updated the wiki when you yourself can not be arsed to do it.

Re: Cult desperately needs a guide

Posted: Sat May 31, 2014 10:04 pm
by Malkevin
420goslingboy69 wrote:How about instead of the creators saying "I worked hard, respect me." they should say "I don't give a fuck. I didn't want to write a guide at the time." That's a lot more respectable in my book.
Its less "I worked hard, respect me" more "I worked hard and now I'm knackered. Wipe your own arse"

Re: Cult desperately needs a guide

Posted: Sat May 31, 2014 10:17 pm
by bandit
Vekter wrote:Guys, let's get back to actually talking about getting a guide written and less OMG CULT SUCKS/OMG CODERS SUCK.
Or let's not, because for the umpteenth time the guide has been rewritten already. If you have concrete suggestions as to how to improve it (note: concrete does not include "this sucks and has sucked for years, if only it was some sort of wiki anyone could edit," nor does concrete include deleting the entire thing including its information), let's get to talking about that.