/tg/Station 13

Bottom post of the previous page:

Do we want Multi-z stations?

Why not?

It would open up many mapping possibilities.

Though if we did get multi-z stations its likely we won't see it used to its full potential unless someone designs a station with it in mind, or we port the russian station over.

Steelpoint wrote:Why not?

Just because my post seems a bit "this is dumb do we really want X" I'll clarify, the question is actually "do i spend my weekend making our own version?

Only you can tell yourself what you'll spend your time on.

Personally, I think multi-z levels will be a net benefit feature for the game, though it does raise many questions on how it'll work, such as how space travel will work.

Remie Richards wrote:do i spend my weekend making our own version?

I'll gladly help you, I've designed a mult-z-level station before but I lost the map file

Ricotez wrote:

Remie Richards wrote:do i spend my weekend making our own version?

I'll gladly help you, I've designed a mult-z-level station before but I lost the map file

You will be my hands for this revolution rico.
(I have some ideas about how a Multi Z station would look, I'll run them past you somewhere between today-next monday (by when I should definitely have finished))

Remie Richards wrote:

Steelpoint wrote:Why not?

Just because my post seems a bit "this is dumb do we really want X" I'll clarify, the question is actually "do i spend my weekend making our own version?

Please do it! It's pretty neat and enables awesome station designs.

Multi z-level stations would be pretty kick ass. Opens a lot of mapping opportunities.

Hell, I'd be willing to do a full 1:1 remap of the russian station onto /tg/station. Would be a nice break from my attempts to revive my old Steelstation design.

What I had in mind was a central primary hallway but oriented vertically, across all the floors, that all the departments can be accessed from. I made a quick mock-up using only six departments across three floors. The scale is probably a bit too small on this one, but it's just a mock-up after all:

Top Deck (Com-Sec) Middle Deck (Med-Sci) Bottom Deck (Eng-Car) The hole in the center of the top and middle deck would look down onto the bottom deck, but I'm afraid that we would have to port that part of the code from the spooky russian codebase first. If that's not possible we could always just use that space to hold the stairs and elevators and a small lounge for each deck.

That's very amusing because one of my main ideas was that exact same hole through the middle, except mine was overtop the engine so you could push people off the top and into the engine because ~safety regulations~

Remie Richards wrote:Do we want Multi-z stations?

Yes please do

If I can find some time this week I'll try out running an event with a mid-low pop event with some ladders between different "z-levels" to try to replicate this and see how players respond. It obviously won't be a port-test or anything since it won't require modifying any code, but it should give an idea how players feel about the concept in practice.

tfw Remie is saving tg with gud codes

it won't be as good as you think it is

edit:multi z maps that is

oranges wrote:it won't be as good as you think it is

edit:multi z maps that is

Are you ever optimistic?

Xhuis wrote:

oranges wrote:it won't be as good as you think it is

edit:multi z maps that is

Are you ever optimistic?

he's a fruit he can barely think.
then again scientists grew an ear on an apple recently so maybe he'll change too.

citation fucking needed

DemonFiren wrote:citation fucking needed

apple ear?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-39108026

apple ear.

Remie Richards wrote:

DemonFiren wrote:citation fucking needed

apple ear?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-39108026

apple ear.

>biohacking

sounds like some spooky canadian shit

We need this shit for botany NOW.

oranges wrote:it won't be as good as you think it is

edit:multi z maps that is

idk man I just found this really niche code base that had it and tried it out on a local server and it was actually about as cool as I thought it would be, I made a thread about it in general chat you should check it out

i'm a russian programmer


thought i don't know byond at all lmao you'll have to teach me that if you want to get anything out of this


i am pretty good at other programming languages tho

Still have turfs to sort out, and fixing the update_icon()/update_icons() chain, but it's a nice start.

-d-

>be oxford
>get tired of tg
>delve into vague servers
>meet vague people who host edgy erp coil control snowflake rp servers
>say " i need experience with the community "
>meet these people
>play on their server
>they play on this code base
>travel the servers meeting edgy 10 person server erp fests where they speak three different languages
>engage in high-quality-role-play

>look on tg fourms one day
>pkp: "GUYS LOOK AT THIS NEW COOL THING"

pffft newfag doesn't even edgy server

(did you know 30% of my ideas are just modified suggestions from server's i have visited in the past, like gunsmithing, powder physics, modular armor, for honor combat system, ranged melee, deus-ex level augments, smart computers, advanced pdas, and exosuits)

the russians prospected tablets and computers
the brazilians prospected the 3/4th perspective (first to port all their sprites at once to the viewing direction)
the polish prospected advance grabs (mgs level cqc)

i'll go dig for the IP's to some of these fuckold servers if you guy's want to come fuck with some foreigners

Remie Richards wrote:[img]HAPPENING[/img]

Still have turfs to sort out, and fixing the update_icon()/update_icons() chain, but it's a nice start.

ITS
HABBEDING

PKPenguin321 wrote:

Remie Richards wrote:[img]HAPPENING[/img]

Still have turfs to sort out, and fixing the update_icon()/update_icons() chain, but it's a nice start.

ITS
HABBEDING

Maybe it was just the gif loading but that framerate hurt to watch

cedarbridge wrote:

PKPenguin321 wrote:

Remie Richards wrote:[img]HAPPENING[/img]

Still have turfs to sort out, and fixing the update_icon()/update_icons() chain, but it's a nice start.

ITS
HABBEDING

Maybe it was just the gif loading but that framerate hurt to watch

It's a combination.
1. Sharex is running to capture it, obvi
2. I still have google chrome open with like, 8 tabs
3. I still have discord open
4. I'm hosting the server locally

These all add up to make the performance a bit poo for the gif (plus I think I only captured at 30)
All 4 of the above points aren't relevant to a player, and 1,2,3 probably won't be happening on the server machines.

Also I got turfs working, no gif yet though because It's at home and I'm not.

I'm checking back on this thread regularly in anticipation for remie's posts I am really excited

PKPenguin321 wrote:I'm checking back on this thread regularly in anticipation for remie's posts I am really excited

Started work on it again for today, goal is to clean up a "version 1" PR (no atmos, but perhaps have tested it locally, -maybe- explosions since that's not too complex)(that PR won't be merged in that state, it's just staging and to get opinion), and to make a recreation of the picture in your OP of the spooky russian codebase.



Not too shabby! (The warning stripes and boxes being missing is due to turfs not updating their zshadows after they get decals, but that's being fixed)

Bonus!

The future is scary.

I'm wondering if we should expand department mechanics to make full use of multiple floors, like:
-Expanding cargo to have a factory-like area for creating things that autolathes can't make or converting otherwise unused minerals, like metal, into """"luxury""""" objects to sell to CentCom.
-Giving Science a computer lab to make/research software with (Telescience too? As soon as we find a way to counter the worst of the telesci memes).
-Letting Engineering have bigger and more Xbox-hueg engines &/or substations to let them mess with the power/air in a department. Maybe replace atmos's holding tanks with machines that generate gases from power.
-More nooks and crannies in maintenance areas for illicit activities and the formation of greytide tribes formed from lost assistants.
-Medical having an express elevator/tunnel/stairs to quickly ascend between the floors and more areas for medical research (Perhaps experimental surgery with different kinds of organs?).
-Command I don't know how to expand without going FTL 13 .
-Security is a difficult one, it's like command in that it doesn't have any form of progression. Maybe a big hazard training course that let them "simulate" different scenarios using holodecks and props.
-AI I also don't know how to expand upon. Maybe some sort of nebulous "AI research" area that generates points that can be used to give slight benefits to different things, like spending research to make lights less likely to blow out or make mining get one or two extra sheets per haul or making Science's lathes slightly more resource-efficient.

Anonmare wrote:The future is scary.

I'm wondering if we should expand department mechanics to make full use of multiple floors, like:
-Expanding cargo to have a factory-like area for creating things that autolathes can't make or converting otherwise unused minerals, like metal, into """"luxury""""" objects to sell to CentCom.
-Giving Science a computer lab to make/research software with (Telescience too? As soon as we find a way to counter the worst of the telesci memes).
-Letting Engineering have bigger and more Xbox-hueg engines &/or substations to let them mess with the power/air in a department. Maybe replace atmos's holding tanks with machines that generate gases from power.
-More nooks and crannies in maintenance areas for illicit activities and the formation of minor IC crime tribes formed from lost assistants.
-Medical having an express elevator/tunnel/stairs to quickly ascend between the floors and more areas for medical research (Perhaps experimental surgery with different kinds of organs?).
-Command I don't know how to expand without going FTL 13 .
-Security is a difficult one, it's like command in that it doesn't have any form of progression. Maybe a big hazard training course that let them "simulate" different scenarios using holodecks and props.
-AI I also don't know how to expand upon. Maybe some sort of nebulous "AI research" area that generates points that can be used to give slight benefits to different things, like spending research to make lights less likely to blow out or make mining get one or two extra sheets per haul or making Science's lathes slightly more resource-efficient.

AI already has its hands full keeping track of shit on two or more z-levels of doorknob memes

Remie Richards wrote:

PKPenguin321 wrote:I'm checking back on this thread regularly in anticipation for remie's posts I am really excited

Started work on it again for today, goal is to clean up a "version 1" PR (no atmos, but perhaps have tested it locally, -maybe- explosions since that's not too complex)(that PR won't be merged in that state, it's just staging and to get opinion), and to make a recreation of the picture in your OP of the spooky russian codebase.

Spoiler:

Not too shabby! (The warning stripes and boxes being missing is due to turfs not updating their zshadows after they get decals, but that's being fixed)

Bonus!

Spoiler:

holy shit this is so cool, i actually threw my hands up in excitement when i saw the picture
i think the last time i was this hyped for a new thing was when dismemberment came out, you always make some of the most dope features goodness gracious icant wait for this

will it work for many structures or just the station? imagine if we had a spooky space ruin with a secret monster filled basement only accessible via a hidden ladder

PKPenguin321 wrote:

Remie Richards wrote:

PKPenguin321 wrote:I'm checking back on this thread regularly in anticipation for remie's posts I am really excited

Started work on it again for today, goal is to clean up a "version 1" PR (no atmos, but perhaps have tested it locally, -maybe- explosions since that's not too complex)(that PR won't be merged in that state, it's just staging and to get opinion), and to make a recreation of the picture in your OP of the spooky russian codebase.

Spoiler:

Not too shabby! (The warning stripes and boxes being missing is due to turfs not updating their zshadows after they get decals, but that's being fixed)

Bonus!

Spoiler:

holy shit this is so cool, i actually threw my hands up in excitement when i saw the picture
i think the last time i was this hyped for a new thing was when dismemberment came out, you always make some of the most dope features goodness gracious icant wait for this

will it work for many structures or just the station? imagine if we had a spooky space ruin with a secret monster filled basement only accessible via a hidden ladder

Adventure towers

Remie Richards wrote: Bonus!

Spoiler:

Fukken XENOOOOOOOOS.

MAINT ZLEVEL

How do the z-level floors handle sound? Does sound just travel through floors or do we get a muffled version of the same sound? Does sound only travel between levels with exposed floor turfs?

iamgoofball wrote:MAINT ZLEVEL

DANK DEPTHS

If maint gets its own z-level, sec is getting Dredd buffs to deal with the underhive rabble.

How would a multi z-level station handle power?

The sing should affect the z level it's on as well as the one above and below it.

Make the station into a space ship while you're at it. Maintenance underhive sounds fantastic though.

Not implementing half of this shit would be a crime against humanity

One Seven One wrote:How would a multi z-level station handle power?

A lot of the floor tile transport systems (atmos, power, disposals) will require a lot of thinking.

If we get this system I'll be more than happy to port/map the Russian Station onto our code base, it'll be significantly quicker than designing a station from scratch.

Oh, I'm pretty sure this is Neekothing. It's come a long way since May 2015, those russians really know how to code spacemans

PKPenguin321 wrote: will it work for many structures or just the station? imagine if we had a spooky space ruin with a secret monster filled basement only accessible via a hidden ladder

The way the system works (it could be changed later, if -really- necessary, but this way is nice and simple) is that if the Zlevel numerically after the current one (2 -> 3) has a "z open turf" (any turf with z_open set on it) then they are technically treated as "two halves of the same thing", this has no actual meaning in the code however, if you walk under (z-under) a "z open turf", your "zshadow" will appear on that "z open turf" above you, correctly updating its loc, appearance and dir (dir is not part of appearance) as you do the same. Once I have z piping (we actually already have some weird "z-vent" that if you stack it on top (zs) of other ones will pass gas through, no idea if it's still functional however) and z wiring, these will also technically "connect" the levels, though neither of these would visibly show things below.

tl;dr, anywhere there's a hole down a z level, the levels "connect"

cedarbridge wrote:How do the z-level floors handle sound? Does sound just travel through floors or do we get a muffled version of the same sound? Does sound only travel between levels with exposed floor turfs?

I'd be lying if I said I'd already done sound, I haven't, however sound works by checking how far every player mob (because this is a small list, generally) is away from the sound's source, it then compares that the two things (mob + sound source) are on the same Z, what I can simply do here is say "well if it's NOT on the same Z, but *IS* above or below, play a slightly modified sound" (quieter, maybe mess around with byond's weird semi-broken "environment" effects for sounds)

tl;dr not done, but super simple

One Seven One wrote:How would a multi z-level station handle power?

Most probably just wires that go up/down, wherever engineering is would have wires across Zs that then eventually connect to each department's APC, as usual, nothing strictly new here beyond wires that go up/down

Explosions, as nobody's asked, will require a more formal concept of "Are these two Zs connected?" other than just a hole exactly where the explosion starts (because an explosion would logically MAKE holes, not care about their prior existence), however this is as simple as tracking when a "z open turf" is made/destroy, and storing that It's Z and the one below are formally "connected"

As for atmos, gas turfs just share with their neighbours, it shouldn't be too difficult to validate (z_open) that UP/DOWN are valid neighbours (We use Byond's dirs for a lot of things, obviously, NORTH,EAST,SOUTH,WEST, their combined values NORTHEAST,NORTHWEST,SOUTHEAST,SOUTHWEST, but there's also UP/DOWN (for zs), and all their combinations to)

anymore questions?

I have a question, though it might be getting ahead.

Will it be possible for someone, if there is no gravity, to move up or down a z-level on a open air tile?

I was thinking of the possibility of designing a brig where the Warden's office is on a z-level above the brig cells, so the Warden has a permanent view of all the cells below him. However I found the question of if the prisioners could float up and out of the cells to be one of concern.

(This will also affect space movement, hard enough to track someone in space let alone if they go up or down a z-level)

Also, do you intend to examine the idea of allowing someone to 'look up' and see a z-level up to a degree?

There will be a hud button(s) for looking up/down (single Z only)
If you have no gravity, you'll get some method of moving up/down zs (no grav, jetpacks, super jump boots?) then a hud button/action button will pop out, one for up one for down, only appearing as necessary.

Well I suppose in that case just placing grilles or a glass cealing would be sufficent to prevent 'floating prisoner syndrome' from occurring.

Final question I have, how many multi-z levels do you intend to support?

You mentioned earlier you envisioned that three multi-z levels would be the maximum you would want.

I'm asking since if we port over the Russian Station, then we would have to condense it down from five to three floors.

Also we need a new name for multi-level z-levels.