/tg/Station 13

Bottom post of the previous page:

Alternatively, I hate it when people go braindead because they were going to get brigged for three minutes.

I watch a youtube video while brigged.

captains that think i have to let them into my upload.

you do have to let them in your upload, stop being a powergaming shitlord and stop trying to actively prevent people from doing creative things.

Miauw wrote:you do have to let them in your upload, stop being a powergaming shitlord and stop trying to actively prevent people from doing creative things.

^

Also people that bump several months old threads. HINT FUCKING HINT.

better than starting a new thread

Miauw wrote:you do have to let them in your upload, stop being a powergaming shitlord and stop trying to actively prevent people from doing creative things.

there is no reason to go in there that would not allow the ai to cause harm other then repairs i infact like law changes but my current laws take precedence.

Besides the captain has a whole enginering department on his side its not hard to get in.

The only high security places i have to let people into are eva, the teleporter,most head offices and the r&d server room (in sure i have forgoten several) i will allow people in most places anyway fuck i sometimes open up the vault to assistants but the upload is outright nobody enters except to fix something.

let me repeat myself:

stop being a powergaming shitlord

not allowing yourself to be subverted is the exact opisiote of powergaming asimov cripples the ai.

So you are saying that you don't have to let cap in because he can requisition a few engineers who then have to cut through walls/airlock, through turrets, disable camera so you won't fuck with APC and then, finally, upload laws?
Le silicon policy (Remember, there is also server rule one, so if you shoehorn EVERYTHING into that you can get bwoinked):

Any silicon under Asimov can deny orders to allow access to the upload at any time under Law 1 given probable cause to believe that human harm is the intent of the person giving the order (Referred to for the remainder of 2.1.6 simply as "probable cause").

Probable cause includes presence of confirmed traitors, cultists/tomes, nuclear operatives, or any other human acting against the station in general; the person not having upload access for their job; the presence of blood or an openly carried lethal-capable or lethal-only weapon on the requester; or anything else beyond cross-round character, player, or metagame patterns that indicates the person seeking access intends redefinition of humans that would impede likelihood of or ability to follow current laws as-written.

If you lack at least one element of probable cause and you deny upload access, you are liable to receive a warning or a silicon ban.

You are allowed, but not obligated, to deny upload access given probable cause.

You are obligated to disallow an individual you know to be harmful (Head of Security who just executed someone, etc.) from accessing your upload.

In the absence of probable cause, you can still demand someone seeking upload access be accompanied by another trustworthy human or a cyborg.

In other words, if someone harmful is trying to enter you are free to deny it, but if you deny entering for the sole reason "THEY MIGHT UPLOAD HARM" you are doing it wrong.

6.1 one mentions lethal weapons.

6.5 mentions getting somebody trustworthy the hop is not trustworthy and once somebody is in there if i see them take a board those turrets are firing.

You dont even need the upload secure tech storage is behind a single r-wall.

Even then its a policy i have never seen enforced there is no ligitimint reason to change the ais laws.

except maybe having fun

but we can't have interesting rounds, can we? as we all know ss13 is about dunking all antags as fast as possible, not about creating interesting situations.

the strange vocabulary you use makes me think that you are actually agreeing with us, but your limited vocabulary makes this impossible for you to communicate to us. what is a "ligitimint"? the world may never know.

tuypo1 wrote:not allowing yourself to be subverted is the exact opisiote of powergaming asimov cripples the ai.

Where abouts in law one does it say you have to prevent future harm?

Hint: it doesn't

i mispelt something deal with it i think your still buthurt from years ago on bay12

on the matter at hand you seem to miss that law changes help stop antags

Malkevin wrote:

tuypo1 wrote:not allowing yourself to be subverted is the exact opisiote of powergaming asimov cripples the ai.

Where abouts in law one does it say you have to prevent future harm?

Hint: it doesn't

silicon policy says lesser immident harm takes precedence over greater future harm that implies future harm matters i will let somebody hide in my upload if somebody is out to get them.

I have made a thread in policy discussion where we can continue this conversation

https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=4829

tuypo1 wrote:on the matter at hand you seem to miss that law changes help stop antags

you're not supposed to stop antags as ai tho

tuypo1 wrote:i mispelt something deal with it i think your still buthurt from years ago on bay12

on the matter at hand you seem to miss that law changes help stop antags

tuypo1 more like typo1 AM I RIGHT HERE FOLKS?

pulling the "lol bay" card is low though, there's a massive difference between "don't powergame" and Bay's "no fun allowed WE'RE EVEN GONNA REMOVE BANANAS FROM THE CODE"

Xhuis wrote:

It's a three-train pile up, and every single train was filled with deaf children on their way to their first circus ever.

Back on topic, people who cause trouble as non-antag because "lel so fanny", then complain when they're punished. Why.

Yes, back to the topic. Greytiders who either take critical resources while greytiding or important job slot. Wasn't this the reason ERP was banned?

As a borg, changelings who REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE shriek everywhere and constantly EMP me.

when you roll antag but really really really need to take a shit
it's the worst because you can't just stop and take care of it or else you'll inevitably get cucked and lose your antag roll, but also the tension makes your sphincter tighten to the point of it being painful
i'm hoping that i'm not the only person this happens to

just hide in a locker and get it over with, damn.

When you trip/fall/get pushed as a head using their baton to defend themselves and some random person takes your baton.

People who will happily steal weapons off you for their own crack at antagonists.

Literally had an instance a week or so ago where I, in a security hardsuit, put down a shotgun on my tile in the shuttle for a few seconds whilst I readied weapons to stop the spacesuit-wearing traitor outside the smashed window, and an assistant in normal greytide attire - no gas mask, no nothing - picked up the gun, ran outside into space, shot it once or twice and died.

Just people who happily steal your stuff, especially when you need it. No, you can't stunprod the Captain and steal her headset because you want the encryption key more. Pushing the Engineer over and stealing their RCD mid-breach fixing tops the list, though. I think they wanted it to build a fort in maintenance or something.

Screemonster wrote:

tuypo1 wrote:i mispelt something deal with it i think your still buthurt from years ago on bay12

on the matter at hand you seem to miss that law changes help stop antags

tuypo1 more like typo1 AM I RIGHT HERE FOLKS?

pulling the "lol bay" card is low though, there's a massive difference between "don't powergame" and Bay's "no fun allowed WE'RE EVEN GONNA REMOVE BANANAS FROM THE CODE"

im not talking about baystation im talking about the bay12 forums

Miauw wrote:

tuypo1 wrote:on the matter at hand you seem to miss that law changes help stop antags

you're not supposed to stop antags as ai tho

yes you are its right in the first law you may not through inaction allow a human to come to harm.

If you dont want the ai to stop antags why are you so desprate to get its laws changed to allow it to stop antags.

tuypo1 wrote:

Miauw wrote:

tuypo1 wrote:on the matter at hand you seem to miss that law changes help stop antags

you're not supposed to stop antags as ai tho

yes you are its right in the first law you may not through inaction allow a human to come to harm.

If you dont want the ai to stop antags why are you so desprate to get its laws changed to allow it to stop antags.

can somebody silicon ban this person

It's really tempting.

nobody would have any kind of hard feelings towards you whatsoever if you did
just saying

I would because I expect better from saegrimar

tuypo1 wrote:

Miauw wrote:

tuypo1 wrote:on the matter at hand you seem to miss that law changes help stop antags

you're not supposed to stop antags as ai tho

yes you are its right in the first law you may not through inaction allow a human to come to harm.

If you dont want the ai to stop antags why are you so desprate to get its laws changed to allow it to stop antags.

ASIMOV is the default lawset because it is SUPPOSED to stop AI from validhunting entire station. You can bolt doors, yes, but on asimov you can't vent plasma on revs/gangs/cult/tators/ /nukeops (though last one will kill you first). The only antags that you can attack either have a method of disguising themselves (Changelings, shadowlings who later stay in cameraless maint, abductors) or don't care (XENO SCUM , blob).
Assuming antags want to cause harm is a fallacy, and nowhere it states that you have to stop antags. You have to stop harm, yes, but is stealing jetpack harmful? Is killing lizards human harm?

Besides, 1# If your only goal as AI is to get all antags you really really should stop playing AI, 2# THIS is why there is a large "REMOVE AI" crowd, AIs using their default lawset to validhunt and 3# remember about server rule one. While you can ruleslawyer your way into antaghunting, this is HIGHLY frowned upon by everyone.

EDIT: Besides, you have to protect human antags too, so giving them out to sec that will probably murder them/leave them in so-easily-damaged-by-carp perma is against law one.

EDIT2: SORRY FOR DERAILING. UM... EH... Borgs who disobey the AI to validhunt/build autism forts/be a general annoyance.

Jazaen wrote:

tuypo1 wrote:

Miauw wrote:

tuypo1 wrote:on the matter at hand you seem to miss that law changes help stop antags

you're not supposed to stop antags as ai tho

yes you are its right in the first law you may not through inaction allow a human to come to harm.

If you dont want the ai to stop antags why are you so desprate to get its laws changed to allow it to stop antags.

ASIMOV is the default lawset because it is SUPPOSED to stop AI from validhunting entire station. You can bolt doors, yes, but on asimov you can't vent plasma on revs/gangs/cult/tators/ /nukeops (though last one will kill you first). The only antags that you can attack either have a method of disguising themselves (Changelings, shadowlings who later stay in cameraless maint, abductors) or don't care (XENO SCUM , blob).
Assuming antags want to cause harm is a fallacy, and nowhere it states that you have to stop antags. You have to stop harm, yes, but is stealing jetpack harmful? Is killing lizards human harm?

Besides, 1# If your only goal as AI is to get all antags you really really should stop playing AI, 2# THIS is why there is a large "REMOVE AI" crowd, AIs using their default lawset to validhunt and 3# remember about server rule one. While you can ruleslawyer your way into antaghunting, this is HIGHLY frowned upon by everyone.

EDIT: Besides, you have to protect human antags too, so giving them out to sec that will probably murder them/leave them in so-easily-damaged-by-carp perma is against law one.

then why are you so desperate to make it easy for the ai to stop antags.

and not ratting people out to sec because they will probably kill them Is meta as fuck the ai is supposed to trust in prisoner transfer if somebody asks me not to call sec on them I wont but you can be sure I will have my eyes on them.

my goal as ai is not to stop the antags it is to protect the crew.

to get back on topic and as a contrast to my earlier posts people who don't get wizards declared non-human then complain when I wont let them borg or incinerate them.

When the HoS refuses to listen to other heads when it comes to their departments. When the HoS tries to micromanage the other heads. When the HoS stuncuffs and brigs the CE because they don't understand how the turbine works and think the CE is going to flood plasma. When the HoS tries to loyalty implant a head during Rev.

When the HoS barges into Cargo near roundstart and uses up all the points buying weapons while refusing to communicate with the QM. I've sent back crates of weapons out of spite when the HoS wasted EVERY FUCKING CARGO POINT on weapons before the antag even appears.

Also, when atmos techs start their personal projects without even setting the filters to maximum pressure.
When an atmos tech breaks out the axe for no reason and gets it stolen by the clown.
When engineers take all the fucking RCDs and refuse to leave maint to actually fix things.
When engineers sign up as engineers for the easily accessible hardsuit and run off to do a gimmick (I'm looking at you, Sneakman.)

DaemonBomb wrote:When the HoS refuses to listen to other heads when it comes to their departments. When the HoS tries to micromanage the other heads. When the HoS stuncuffs and brigs the CE because they don't understand how the turbine works and think the CE is going to flood plasma. When the HoS tries to loyalty implant a head during Rev.

When the HoS barges into Cargo near roundstart and uses up all the points buying weapons while refusing to communicate with the QM. I've sent back crates of weapons out of spite when the HoS wasted EVERY FUCKING CARGO POINT on weapons before the antag even appears.

Yep. Heads of Security powertripping because they have the guns is a serious problem.

Then again, heads have different powers perscribed to them by Centcom in the lore and spacelaw. Did you know that a CMO can, on reasonable evidence, have any crewmember held as a danger to themselves or others under mental health concerns? Heads of security frequently overstep their marks, though.

Hell, I had an instance a few weeks back where I, as a CMO, had to physically wrest a patient that the HoS had brought in away from them to stop the blackcoat from overdosing them on anything else that was in the sleeper. I got stunned for my troubles, and then my medbay staff (plus the medbay security guard) physically restrained the blackcoat whilst I stabilised the patient and told him exactly what he was doing wrong. He sulked off and I swear he was metagrudging me for the next few rounds.

MEDBAY DESIGN MAKES ME FUCKING INSANE. Also, in that same vein, self medicating people that don't understand the nice man in scrubs, whose job it is solely to help you, is trying to help you.

And getting your shit beat for taking crit people off of greyshirts to resuscitate/heal up as a doctor.

As a Geneticist, people who go out of their way to shove people into the cloner and get the cloning process started. Nigga, my ENTIRE JOB IS TO CLONE PEOPLE. You can leave them here and I'll be happy to take care of it.
As a Chemist, CMOs who wordlessly walk into the lab and start mixing shit. Nigga, my ENTIRE JOB IS TO MIX CHEMICALS. You can request and I'll be happy to take care of it.
As an Atmospheric Technician, station engineers who try to tell me how atmos works. Nigga, my ENTIRE JOB IS TO FUCK WITH PIPES. If I wanted your half-retarded input I would have asked for it.
As Security, people who go around flashing people at roundstart and then yell "REVS HELP AT BRIG" when I tase them, only for them to turn out to be a non-antag greytider. What the fuck?
Lawyers. All of them. (Except for Phoenix Wrong, he was pretty cool).
Virologists who give themselves amazing viruses and then don't do anything else for the crew.
Auto rifles.
People who use slipping tactics and call themselves robust.
All lizards.
Anyone with a hair color that's brighter than blonde or colored like they dumped their head into a bucket of paint.
Metafriends.
As a drone, people who pick me up to either steal the shit I'm carrying or to throw me into space. My sole purpose is to keep you alive by keeping the station intact. Why would you space me?
Badowlings. Glare at someone and start enthralling them, lose because you didn't know how to use Veil or remove their headset.
Operatives who force the role of "medic" onto somebody and then whine when they don't get healed. You know I coded an entire borg to fulfill that purpose, right? And it has the single most effective healing chemical in the game outside of adminordrazine...?
The speech disabilities in Genetics.
The 24 blocks in Genetics.
The embedded mixing in Chemistry that forces you to make a thousand other reagents in order to make a chemical that heals half a point of brute damage every hour.
Wizards who try to be friendly and get their shit kicked in. There's 30 people orbiting you, the least you can do is put on a good show.
Validhunting mimes.
Changelings who sell out their fellow changelings. You are the worst kind of person, especially if it's a team objective.

A lot of things.

Suicide hopline, while hilarious, is played out. At least leave something for the Chef to chop up.

Related: Chefs who don't do their fucking jobs.

When I'm AI and people give me shit for not opening the airlock within two nanoseconds after they scream AI DOOR over the radio

this close to just start responding with "yes that is a door" again

Ricotez wrote:When I'm AI and people give me shit for not opening the airlock within two nanoseconds after they scream AI DOOR over the radio

this close to just start responding with "yes that is a door" again

You can also tell them its an airlock.

I hate beards

Xhuis wrote:As a Geneticist, people who go out of their way to shove people into the cloner and get the cloning process started. Nigga, my ENTIRE JOB IS TO CLONE PEOPLE.

not true lately i've been playing geneticist and isolating the dwarfism gene then giving it to any sec officer who puts themselves in a cryo tube as a prank

What does dwarfism actually do aside from making people smaller.

Zilenan91 wrote:What does dwarfism actually do aside from making people smaller.

I think they can also ventrcrawl

The unloved rock wrote:

Zilenan91 wrote:What does dwarfism actually do aside from making people smaller.

I think they can also ventrcrawl

why does everyone think this, it is so blatantly untrue

I think that they were SUPPOSED to ventcrawl.

Xhuis wrote:Lawyers. All of them. (Except for Phoenix Wrong, he was pretty cool).

i once had two lawyers make such a fuss that all of sec ended up in the perma hall bc we permad the hop

the ai was subverted, a borg stole the hop and we were locked in behind blast doors.
at this point everybody but me and the warden died of mysterious poisoning.

yeah, fuck lawyers.

Space Law says lawyer is not to be trusted and certainly not to be respected, and that annoying lawyers should be thrown out the nearest airlock the brig.
Space Law is Law.