The problem with SS13

[mikeike545]

Alright so I've been playing ss13 for a long time now. Ever since 2014, even though I didn't play it so much in between when I first started and now. And I find myself more confused now than ever at the state of the game.

Around two days ago I was in a round in which I was the chaplain, not too much happened so far, the geneticist gave me and the HoP hulk. The HoP apparently broke something and so one crew member, a scientist, had began to complain about hulks and say the AI should kill them and they should be arrested. So the scientist starts attacking the HoP. I arrested the scientist, despite being a chaplain, because I thought it wouldn't be very fun to just outright murder him. During when I arrested them some miner didn't like that very much and chased me all the way to security, in which they shot me several times with a KA right in front of the HoS. HoS didn't stop them, so I attacked the miner. The HoS, watching the entire thing, decides to help the miner and try to kill me. I kind of just stood there and asked them to stop especially since he tried to stun me when hulks are immune to that. He then just switched to lethals and killed me despite me just standing there asking him to stop. He never revived my body. I ahelped this but apparently HoS claimed he only saw me attack. The point of this story is that it was more beneficial to me as a player to just have killed the scientist for trying to kill someone else and calling for the murder of me and the HoP than it was for me to try to keep them alive for funs sake. And this is just a recent story off the top of my head, because trying to play by the rules just got me killed by a security member who apparently either wasn't paying attention or didn't care enough. I can't speak for everyone but I can say that security, at least recently in the past month or two, has just made the game really unfun for me, even as a non antag.

The amount of stuff they're allowed to just do without any check or balance is wrong. The AI is probably the only IC counterweight to security, and that's only if they harm, and that's only if the AI feels like intervening or hasn't gotten laws from the HoS. Yesterday I was playing curator and got dragged to the HoS office after being shot with a confiscated .357. I told the ai this and they decided to warn sec, they later killed me and the AI again did nothing. And they can get away with pulling out lethals incredibly easily despite having access to 5 different stun methods, one of which is a huge aoe flashbang that they didn't even bother to attempt to use in a much earlier 'riot' incident in a botched nuke ops round.

I have seen like, four whole court sessions in my years of playing. Lawyers never get to really set one up and when I talk about this several people always pitch in and go 'WELL I CAN DO IT' but never play lawyer apparently. The few lawyers I see are either memers or they're just playing security but with less risk of being targeted.

Point being, I don't think there's enough IC or OOC limits to sec. I remember playing sec requiring much more thought and more nonlethal approach, lest you get bwoinked. They have the easy capability to end someones round either entirely or throw them in a cell for 5-10 minutes. Now I'm sure sec officers get bwoinked a hell of a lot more than I'd like to think but it sure doesn't seem to be working.

A while ago I had gotten a note and finally had it removed with the admin telling me they don't think killing should be your option. But to that I must ask; What incentive do I have as a non sec officer to even mildly attempt to nonlethally stop someone, or even drag them to the medbay after killing them in self defense, for example? On top of that, what incentive does security have to non-lethally stop someone?

[TheColdTurtle]

It is an issue with too many players who don't care about actual rp, just getting Dem valids.

[Screemonster]

Re: complaining about the HoS not magically divining the whole story when all he saw was a hulk chaplain getting in a fight with some guy in front of his brig after hearing the radio screaming about hulks fucking shit up:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sally%E2%80%93Anne_test

[mikeike545]

Except I already explained that I was the one who was attacked first, clearly, in front of the HoS. And even if he wasn't, I wasn't doing anything harmful or threatening after he started firing. I stood there and just said 'stop' and 'wait' like thrice. Like even if he didn't directly see the KA hit me, which he would because of the fact that it shows up on your chat and even if it wasn't he didn't revive me even after he was bwoinked for it, he crit me, cuffed me, dragged me into the brig and let me die. Why not stun the miner and just ask a single question?

Also you misunderstood, it was merely one scientist screaming for hulks to be killed. Or at least that I noticed.

[Lazengann]

Hulks are like mechs in that no matter what you do people will assume you're the bad guy

[mikeike545]

missed point

[kevinz000]

It is an issue with too many players who don't care about actual rp, just getting Dem valids.

[Steelpoint]

tgstation has long abandoned any pretense of proper roleplay. Aside from the absolute bare minimum you can pretty much get away with almost anything.

[imblyings]

Oh come on

>get hulk
>other hulk apparently breaks something
>the scientist gets seen attacking the hop, so you get yourself involved
>you get seen attacking the scientist, so a miner gets involved
>you get seen attacking the miner, so the HoS gets involved
>you complain about the HoS involving themselves and making a reasonable assumption its the hulk that's in the wrong

You were defending someone who had allegedly broken something in the first place. While we wish for players to have the freedom to go full hulk retard by defending fellow idiot hulks, part of that is accepting someone else will react to that. You could have defended the HoP over the radio, maybe attempt to find out what he broke so you could fix things or apologize on his behalf or just not get involved in the first place if you didn't want to deal with people making a safe assumption for them when hulks are involved.

[Luke Cox]

L I G H T R P
I
G
H
T

R
P

[imblyings]

if you niggas use that disgusting meaningless buzzword one more time I swear

Look on the other hand there was this lovely tator yesterday or the day before who opened up a nice shop with tator items in escape. No one broke in, no one valided them as far as I remember, and people just came over to civilly trade for things. That was nice, really nice.

[mikeike545]

Since when does arrest imply attack. I never was seen attacking the scientist because I never did. What the heck. Also I said I attacked the miner, after being attacked by said miner, in front of the HoS who stood there and watched. What the heck. The HoS who continued to try to kill me as I stood still and started saying 'wait' and 'stop' because they didn't do anything to the miner who was obviously trying to kill me in front of him. And the scientist was just loudly saying all hulks should be killed and arrested.
I draw a fine line between killing someone for breaking something and arresting them for breaking something m'dude. So even if the hop did who cares. And what was apparently broken was never really said anyway.

It really sucks when people just imply stuff happened that didn't happen and also ignore the point which was that a leap was made by the HoS when I clearly gave up fighting, he continued to kill me. And not only that but, yet again, he didn't even revive me after he was bwoinked or bother to find out what happened after the fact. Ignoring certain parts of my original post certainly does make it easier to respond to, I know.

Like lmao today I got bwoinked for beating the clown into crit in medbay for trying to hit me with a pot repeatedly but apparently that didn't show up because he missed like half the time he kept trying to throw it at me.

[Nilons]

1) This is a policy thread

2) "a long time" is not since 2014

3) This policy thread has been a million times and it would be more constructive to pitch into those threads than to add another drop to the bucket

[D&B]

if you niggas use that disgusting meaningless buzzword one more time I swear

Look on the other hand there was this lovely tator yesterday or the day before who opened up a nice shop with tator items in escape. No one broke in, no one valided them as far as I remember, and people just came over to civilly trade for things. That was nice, really nice.

Yeah guys, get with the times, everyone knows /tg/ is mid rp.

[imblyings]

if you niggas use that disgusting meaningless buzzword one more time I swear

Look on the other hand there was this lovely tator yesterday or the day before who opened up a nice shop with tator items in escape. No one broke in, no one valided them as far as I remember, and people just came over to civilly trade for things. That was nice, really nice.

Yeah guys, get with the times, everyone knows /tg/ is mid rp.

[CPTANT]

The problem with SS13 is lack of non-antag content and lack of incentive to work together.


SS13 would be a 1000 times more interesting if without cooperation the crew (including traitors) simply would not survive. That means traitors must join in this cooperation and only backstab on strategic moments to achieve their objectives and escape alive.

[Slignerd]

On one hand, it's too common for crew to go full on greytide and then complain when security cracks down on them. On the other, security officers who just ignore all attempts to talk it out and de-escalate and dedicate themselves fully to their manhunt are absolute scum too.

[srifenbyxp]

Walls of text.

[Steelpoint]

Lifeweb does that very well.

In their OS13 game mode, some people spawn on a 600 year old, derelict, space station. The station is falling apart, the AI is dead, they have no food or water in storage, no engine, all the solar arrays are busted and blown up, little power in reserve, everyone spawns in a giant cyro tube room with no access until the Captain gives it to them, many areas of the station have little visibility and the station is under constant threat of being hit by meteors that require someone to be constantly manning a communications console to check for incoming asteroid strikes so they can activate the shields.

In addition, the crew start with sub-standard equipment. Even the most basic items like laser guns and portable health analyzer's are unavailable. Its up to RnD to rediscover their "lost" technology and then use resources to produce these basic items. Further hampered that the station has no minerals left so its up to Pilots to explore derelicts to recover minerals and resources for usage.

One of the crew members is a Traitor, and this traitor is left with a moral dilemma. They are stuck 600 years in the future, everyone they've ever known is dead and the corporations that hired you likely do not exist anymore. As far as you know your crew are the last remnant of humanity, but you swore to uphold your instructions and you are fiercely loyal to the Syndicate. The question is, do you uphold your 600 year old orders or do you abandon them for the greater good (not to mention there is a OOC incentive to finish your orders as you get a reward for doing that).

----

If the station was remade so that the crew, from the get go, need to repair the station and constantly repair and power it to protect it from meteor strikes and alien infestations/pirate raids, that would add a great moral and practical dilemma to traitors. The more people you kill, the more areas of the station you damage, the less of a chance the crew have to survive being stranded.

[kevinz000]

>literal standard of "if you go lower than this you get security banned" player screams light rp as a shitpost
lol.

[PKPenguin321]

2) "a long time" is not since 2014

shit newfags say

[ShadowDimentio]

High RP is a horribly boring slog.
Low RP is a validfest of shittery.

Both sides have problems.

[Nilons]

2) "a long time" is not since 2014

shit newfags say

been playing ss13 on d20station since 2012, tgstation is not the only server you rat cunt

[tacolizard]

if you niggas use that disgusting meaningless buzzword one more time I swear

Look on the other hand there was this lovely tator yesterday or the day before who opened up a nice shop with tator items in escape. No one broke in, no one valided them as far as I remember, and people just came over to civilly trade for things. That was nice, really nice.

except when I don't roll tator and open a shop people just break in and steal shit, sec doesn't care, and if i defend myself I get arrested.

[mikeike545]

2) "a long time" is not since 2014

shit newfags say

been playing ss13 on d20station since 2012, tgstation is not the only server you rat cunt

>only two more years
>tries to be pedantic about 'old', a completely subjective thing
right into the trash

[Nilons]

2) "a long time" is not since 2014

shit newfags say

been playing ss13 on d20station since 2012, tgstation is not the only server you rat cunt

>only two more years
>tries to be pedantic about 'old', a completely subjective thing
right into the trash

Didn't say 2012 was old, said 2014 was not, read a book dude

[Qbopper]

anyone who judges people by account age is unironically not worth listening to

[Nilons]

anyone who judges people by account age is unironically not worth listening to

Rest in peace PKP you had just come back from the dead to start posting again

[Super Aggro Crag]

Hey how old is my account i forget

[PKPenguin321]

Hey how old is my account i forget

2012-07-31 19:11:58
idk when logging started you might be older

[ColonicAcid]

your byond account crag was made in 2010.

[Super Aggro Crag]

I might be a newfag

[ColonicAcid]

its okay crag i still love you for who you are.

[Cherrypone]

The 'Problem with SS13' (or more like problem with /tg/station) is that the playerbase is full of blithering retards, assholes and idiots.
imo

[Qbopper]

The 'Problem with SS13' (or more like problem with /tg/station) is that the playerbase is full of blithering retards, assholes and idiots.
imo

this is a given

[Professor Hangar]

People need to treat SS13 more like the multiplayer Dorf Fort it is; the real goal is to accomplish whatever you can before dying hilariously.

[TrustyGun]

The problem with SS13 is that people take their spessmens too seriously

Source: Every post in this thread

[Gamarr]

Content. Goals.
You lack them. The antagonism transcends just the role into the players, whether or not they even have the 'green light' they are shit to eachother; this has happened because of idle hands of Humans.
All the while being 'constrained' by the rules. Except the rules can be worked. The worst know how to do just this, security being one side of it, just legitimized. And by rules I mean IC as well as OOC, in our OPs issue, his was by playing ball with security by including them.
The problem? Putting faith into people you don't know probably, for no reason other than they are security. You don't involve others unless you're willing to accept how they might see what you're doing as someone else pointed out.
'Oh yeah, this guy I killed was trying to debrain me and vent escape. You have my word!' Just your word. Their faith in you and your word.

This is the hell you chose. Nobody wants more mechanics involved to keep a player busy, meaning they have nothing but time and their normally half-assed 'job' be it janitor or scientist, with little to no compunction to stick with anything and no reason for anyone to make them. There's little else to do. Except be absolute shit to eachother and then hide behind the shining light of the 'rules' when it doesn't go your way.

The problem with SS13 is that people take their spessmens too seriously

Source: Every post in this thread

People put time into adminning it, coding it, and playing or having it played it. So yes, they'll take it with a modicum of seriousness. That was their time, and this includes the players because without players the server don't add up to much. You don't have to engage in the discussion but you can fuck right off if you don't care either because it adds up to the same result of you not mattering to the solution and are maybe part of the symptom.