/tg/Station 13

In science, I've been spending a fair bit of my time in toxins, since I usually managed to get killed in Xeno, and R&D usually has plenty of people, and no one volunteers as a partner in telescience.
Anyways, I've been thinking a way to conjure up a very efficient and powerful bomb, although I haven't had a chance to try it. What if, you got a heat exchanger from atmos, then attached the regular superheated gas (that's mostly CO2) into one outlet, and pure plasma into the other outlet, with two canisters on the end. Wouldn't you end up with one of them containing superheated pure plasma?
Out of pure curiosity, has anyone tried this? And did it work?

I have cooperated with another scientist on slow rounds to make superbombs using heat exchangers and superheated gasses.
Sadly, when you heat up plasma, the volume goes up far too much, so only a few moles fit in one tank, so you get bombs that barely manage to ignite.

Gift Mandurrh their steam wishlist, your firstborn, and the Boston Legal DVD box set and you can learn to make proper station-crackers.

Mastigos wrote:Gift Mandurrh their steam wishlist, your firstborn, and the Boston Legal DVD box set and you can learn to make proper station-crackers.

...What??
Anyways, what is the best way to make bombs? Use chilled reactants and add an igniter?

The bomb code is semi legible and explains how the bomb force calculations work

Mastigos wrote:Gift Mandurrh their steam wishlist, your firstborn, and the Boston Legal DVD box set and you can learn to make proper station-crackers.

Or ask Tokiko really nicely.

oranges wrote:The bomb code is semi legible and explains how the bomb force calculations work

Sadly, if I were to try to make any attempt at deciphering code at all, the results would probably end up like this.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... pcake.html

My standard for bomb making is it is ready when the ttv starts spewing flames so I probably shouldn't share it in case you burn yourself to death so just be sure wear your firesuit. As with all handling of tanks and canisters be careful not to leave the tank/pump open/pumping out unless you want to create a hazard and have nasty people keeping you away from glorious toxins.

First mix canisters, 2 plasma and 1 oxygen on your pipe intersection. Then spam click 6 oxygen tanks and 6 plasma tanks from your dispenser, oxygen tanks you just fill with oxygen the plasma tanks can have burn mix (your mixed canisters) added to them a little bit don't ask me how much I am not precise just leave some uh wiggle room I think to 800. The burn mix goes on the pipe section that leads to the injector the other should have a portable air pump placed on it, pump is better don't remember how though.

Now before the burn I like to get into the airlock for the burn chamber and set the pumps to max, it feels good not sure if it helps. Connect burn mix up be sure to remove each canister once empty for more burning. When you are satisfied with the burning (I like to empty all my burn mix canisters in) let it into your air pump (through the pipes) and put your plasma tanks on then fill them. Watch them going past their max capacity on the canister screen this means they are good and burning internally, the shooting out small area fire is like the timer on an oven DING! You will probably want to get your lovely tanks away from your remaining canisters since heat might pop them, also mind the pesky fire alarm. Now attach the oxygen tank and plasma tank and your choice of detonator (some spawn ready some don't, use a screwdriver), always change frequency on remote signallers since every now and then some bombless pleb signals it to try and ruin your day specifically. Now this isn't the best method since it goes a bit too far and the completed bombs still periodically combust but they do blast up to the bomb cap and that good enough for me. Only improvement in my mind would be running oxygen through temp transfer pipes in space to super cool it for pure luxury but your will rarely get to do that unless your are an atmos tech.

At this point you can stash your bombs in case of emergency if you aren't a dirty traitor, seeing the RD's locker scorching the floor around it feels quite empowering.

Also the atmos heater works at much lower temperatures than you need and easily get to answer your question just realised you do know how to make bombs already.

All right, thanks Incomptinence!
In an odd, somewhat related twist of fate, I've found guy in our high school marching band who also plays SS13 on /tg/. He says he has some kind of good and simple bomb recipe that he'll tell me when the opportunity arises. In the meanwhile, I'll test out Incomptinence's method.

This is similar to what I do, putting plasma canister to fill up with fire, then filling up tanks from it. This is probably better though. You can also get cold oxygen from cryo, just drag them the spare one from your storage, they don't care that it's warm.

My method is probably the most inefficient still being used I learned it on goon code and I am pretty sure it is an uncapped bombs recipe.

Well at least I always hit the cap.

This thread is titled Efficient Bombs.
In order to obtain them, we must analyze our definition of efficient. To me, it means one minimizes costs, resources, and time needed to complete a task. In this case, they are bombs. The maxcap is rarely ever raised enough for one to want to venture beyond it. This leaves us at an easily attainable level. I am aware of 10/20/40 recipes. However, as an antag, I have attempted to trade my TC for a bombcap raise. Not even a response, which Space Allah is not obligated to give to mere mujaheeden who serve him with these devices of destruction. This means the largest value set my explosions would reach would be 3/7/14.

Why my recipe is 'efficient':
•it takes a few minutes to make
•it uses only 4 canisters of gas
•it is a guaranteed maximum capacity explosion
In this way, I have minimized the time, resources, and labor needed to obtain the said explosion. One cannot expect Allah to hand us everything simply because we have something to offer.

How?
First, go to Toxins storage and drag an O2 canister to the freezer and connect. Set the volume pump to max and turn it on, go to the freezer and set it to 180 and turn it on. Run back to Toxins storage and drag an O2, plasma, and CO2 canister to the distribution pipes and connect until the meter lights up. Really no need to analyze, but it should be 33% of each. Disconnect one of the canisters, doenst matter which, and connect to the bottom connector, set pumps to max+open the manual valve+ignite. Let that burn, and it will rise in temperature very quickly. It will reach about 43,000 Kelvin. Run back to the Freezer. Check the current temperature. If it is at least 190, this is fine. Disconnect the empty canister you put to chill, and drag it to the very bottom connector. Wait a moment, and it will fill at about yellow zone with maybe 1942 kpa of chilled oxygen. Disconnect and drag to toxins. Fill an oxygen tank with this chilled oxygen( do not empty beforehand) to 1013.25 kpa. Get a plasma tank, and do not empty as it is already filled with 303 kpa of plasma(enough for maxcap explosion), and fill with the superheated gas(do not worry if it has little to no plasma when you analyze, but you should have to analyze either) until it reaches 1000 and close immediately. Combine the filled oxygen and plasma tank to a tank transfer valve and add your own met his of detonation. You are the proud owner of a quick, and truly efficient maximum capacity bomb.

I've passed on my secrets to my chosen avatar of annihilation. That one goes by the name Mandurrh. Seek me out in IRC, amuse me, and you might be chosen too.

Heat pure plasma up to around 400 degrees, chill pure 02 down to the lowest possible, combine together, shit pants if it works and the bomb cap is off.

unless you're working in an environment that has bombcap removed, just heat up a mixed can of o2:plasma at 2:1

bomb should be uh...

room temp O2 tank, pump empty, then put a 9:1 ratio of oxygen:plasma (so, basically, 903kpa of O2 and fill up the rest with plasma, e-z as pie).

the plasma can - okay, take the can, scrub it out, then put about 50kpa of room temp plasma in it.

the hot mix should be at max temp by this time (like, more than 93,000 degrees), so fill up an empty canister with the hot mix, then fill up the remaining space in the plasma tanks you prepared earlier with hot mix. Anything over 1000kpa in the tank will be enough (it does take a little while for it to get up to pressure, mind you).

then you hook it all up to a transfer valve with a detonator of your choice.

without the bombcap, I'm pretty sure you could just chill the oxygen beforehand and it'd boost the explosion size.

that'll make maxcap bombs. a bit fiddly, but guaranteed.

The simple secret to big, powerful bombs is this:

Cold oxygen.

I'm not sure exactly why, but if you cool oxygen to -30 or more it basically doubles the explosive power of any bomb you make. At that point you reach something near or at the bombcap very easily and you don't really need to care about the composition of anything else in it!

The colder a gas is, the more 'moles' (ie: atoms) can fit in a tank filled to X pressure.

Yes, the atmos code takes this in to account.

The code in the tank transfer valve mainly causes the plasma and the o2 to react a bunch of times, looks at how much the pressure has changed, (since those same moles, when heated up, but stuck in the same container, use more pressure) and bases the boom size off of that number.

So the reason cold o2 gives you bigger bombs, is two fold. More o2 moles means more reaction, and a lower temperature means the pressure change will be higher since it will reach about the same temperature after the reaction(if not a higher temperature) but its coming from a lower starting temperature then if you had just used room temperature o2.

The best bomb, would be 1 tank, filled with just enough o2 for the reaction, and the rest co2, cooled down to 0 with heat exchanger pipes to space, and a tank filled with just enough plasma for the reaction, superheated to the exact temperature needed to cause the reaction and not a kelvin more, and the rest co2.

How much is needed on both ends I'm not actually sure about. How much temperature is needed on the plasma side I'm also not sure about. So the fun thing for you all to test with on your own servers, would be playing around with that, using varedit'ed heaters and coolers to fiddle about with the exact temperature.

(co2 has the lowest heat capacity of all the gases, meaning it takes less energy to heat it up. 1 mole of plasma can raise the temperature of 10 moles of co2)

FreakyM wrote:I've passed on my secrets to my chosen avatar of annihilation. That one goes by the name Mandurrh. Seek me out in IRC, amuse me, and you might be chosen too.

Wow. Glad to be remembered.

I wonder if the cold fire in a vaccum glitch could work well for this

FreakyM wrote:I've passed on my secrets to my chosen avatar of annihilation. That one goes by the name Mandurrh. Seek me out in IRC, amuse me, and you might be chosen too.

I did exactly what you're doing. I spent three days straight doing math and toxins. Went on irc found freakym told him everything bounced my ideas off of him(I do this a lot with gun hog too just ramble with my notes) and BOOM.

I can make a three minute max cap and I've gotten 10 21 42 with secrets

MrStonedOne wrote:The colder a gas is, the more 'moles' (ie: atoms) can fit in a tank filled to X pressure.

Yes, the atmos code takes this in to account.

The code in the tank transfer valve mainly causes the plasma and the o2 to react a bunch of times, looks at how much the pressure has changed, (since those same moles, when heated up, but stuck in the same container, use more pressure) and bases the boom size off of that number.

So the reason cold o2 gives you bigger bombs, is two fold. More o2 moles means more reaction, and a lower temperature means the pressure change will be higher since it will reach about the same temperature after the reaction(if not a higher temperature) but its coming from a lower starting temperature then if you had just used room temperature o2.

It's funny because that makes no sense at all. If we take into account how the bomb works; you have two tanks stuck together through a small pipe with a valve in the middle that when activated allows the two to mix than cooling the gas down would actually be worse because you're significantly increasing the activating energy needed to start the reaction. Take this as an example, if you cooled down O2 to absolute zero you would be able to fit in a huge amount of volume into the canister. Would this give you the biggest explosion? No, because it's absolute zero, it's reached a point where it can't do any reaction because it's not moving at all. Period. The energy needed to go from absolute zero to a point where it can actually go boom would be more than the station has. The game of course would take into account that absolute zero would just mean "MORE SHIT CAN FIT IN" without the whole fact that it would be more unreactive than a noble gas.

The amount of moles in both the canister shouldn't be the limiting factor in the bomb, that -should- be the volume to surface area ratio of the pipe manifold connecting both.

Chemistry in this game makes me so angry sometimes ugh.

I've come up with a method that I haven't quite tested yet. But I think it could break the 10/20/40 boundary.
50% plasma, 50% oxygen in a canister, attach to freezer and chill to the lowest possible setting.

Make superheated gas to the highest possible setting, no matter how many canister you use. Maybe 90,000 K? I mean, I've had easy maxcap explosions with hot gas heated to 43,000 K. I know you can go higher than 90,000 K, but that's just the minimum temp if this were to work.

By cooling a canister of 50-50 plasma/oxygen, you would be able to compress a lot more miles than single, roomtemp tanks of a single substance. Fill an empty oxygen tank with it and attach to tank transfer valve. Then get your Surface-of-Allah's-Face-HOT gas and fill a plasma tank with at least 400 kpa of plasma, add 75 kpa of oxygen to that and fill the rest up to 1000 with the hot gas. This should be able to yield stats never seen before. Maybe not a huge jump, but maybe past the legendary 10/20/40 we see. Maybe even 12/21/43? I think I saw something close to that, but the last figure the shockeave was a lot smaller than the value set I just listed. And there was a secondary explosion or something.

http://i.imgur.com/zuSippl.jpg

did this by the balls. Tested 2 bombs with the same mixture - I varedited in order to get the stuff I needed quicker, but I made sure the varediting still kept the original mix tanks within normally attainable parameters.

Not sure if I fluked out or what; two bombs, gave me the same blast radius. Would've zoomed out to show the full damage but I'm a scrublet and can't figure out how to admin!zoom.

If a bomb 'pro' wants to shitshoot about it, go ahead and pm me, I'm not quite sure exactly how I made it boom that big (like I said, I was doing it by the balls).

Kangaraptor wrote:http://i.imgur.com/zuSippl.jpg

did this by the balls. Tested 2 bombs with the same mixture - I varedited in order to get the stuff I needed quicker, but I made sure the varediting still kept the original mix tanks within normally attainable parameters.

Not sure if I fluked out or what; two bombs, gave me the same blast radius. Would've zoomed out to show the full damage but I'm a scrublet and can't figure out how to admin!zoom.

If a bomb 'pro' wants to shitshoot about it, go ahead and pm me, I'm not quite sure exactly how I made it boom that big (like I said, I was doing it by the balls).

It's so stupid simple it's hard for most people to get. You're probably over thinking what you did. If you saw my notes you'd see how much over thinking goes into bombs.


To the post above I've been playing with chilled plasma but have not gotten a chance to get on a private server and test it out. I've seen someone score 29, ?, 114 on vg so I know it's possible. It's not my new goal.

Mandurrrh wrote:

Kangaraptor wrote:http://i.imgur.com/zuSippl.jpg

did this by the balls. Tested 2 bombs with the same mixture - I varedited in order to get the stuff I needed quicker, but I made sure the varediting still kept the original mix tanks within normally attainable parameters.

Not sure if I fluked out or what; two bombs, gave me the same blast radius. Would've zoomed out to show the full damage but I'm a scrublet and can't figure out how to admin!zoom.

If a bomb 'pro' wants to shitshoot about it, go ahead and pm me, I'm not quite sure exactly how I made it boom that big (like I said, I was doing it by the balls).

It's so stupid simple it's hard for most people to get. You're probably over thinking what you did. If you saw my notes you'd see how much over thinking goes into bombs.


To the post above I've been playing with chilled plasma but have not gotten a chance to get on a private server and test it out. I've seen someone score 29, ?, 114 on vg so I know it's possible. It's not my new goal.

Well, everything I did I did with the heater and freezer in RND. All I needed was 3 canisters, legit.

As for the chilled plasma thing - I was toying with that idea too. I tried it out, but it didn't seem to ignite (or, when it did, it wasn't particularly powerful) so I don't know what to think. a friend's brother managed to get a 14/28/56 on a /tg/ codebase server, too. ;_;

Or you can just refer to my guide I made on the wiki in regards to making a max yield geist bomb in 7 steps. Short Sweet and to the fucking point my guide is, although some nerds altered my guide a little but it works none the least!

http://tgstation13.org/wiki/Guide_to_to ... to_Bombing

srifenbyxp wrote:Or you can just refer to my guide I made on the wiki in regards to making a max yield geist bomb in 7 steps. Short Sweet and to the fucking point my guide is, although some nerds altered my guide a little but it works none the least!

http://tgstation13.org/wiki/Guide_to_to ... to_Bombing

i don't mean to shit on you but you can make a maxcap bomb with 3 canisters and never touch the mixing room. :p

I can make maxcap canister bombs at the incinerator as limited only by how many oxygen tanks I can steal and how much metal I can procure. A little experimentation, a few shared numbers, a bit of tweaking, and...

Pandarsenic wrote:I can make maxcap canister bombs at the incinerator...

Remember who gave you Ideas back a while ago about that. Shit, most of the people around here seem to be toying around with numbers more or less identical with what I found out back in 2012 with my experimentations.

You can't imagine how happy I am to see that my "chosen ones" have put this info to good use. I suppose I should come and observe again, maybe even play a bit. I think it's been a bit too long since anyone saw a redheaded scientist run up to them just before the screen freezes.

FreakyM wrote:

Pandarsenic wrote:I can make maxcap canister bombs at the incinerator...

Remember who gave you Ideas back a while ago about that. Shit, most of the people around here seem to be toying around with numbers more or less identical with what I found out back in 2012 with my experimentations.

You can't imagine how happy I am to see that my "chosen ones" have put this info to good use. I suppose I should come and observe again, maybe even play a bit. I think it's been a bit too long since anyone saw a redheaded scientist run up to them just before the screen freezes.

Well someone needs to show these whippersnappers how it's done.

fun bombs/10

The magic number is about 0.66, but if you can guarantee ignition you can go up to around 0.85

REAL BOMBLY MANLY BOMBER MEN know what I mean :^)

Pandarsenic wrote:The magic number is about 0.66, but if you can guarantee ignition you can go up to around 0.85

REAL BOMBLY MANLY BOMBER MEN know what I mean :^)

iirc the ideal was 0.90 but the problem was exactly that - ignition

assuming you mean what i think you mean

:^)

I thiiiink we're talking about the same thing. The problem above about 0.85 is that you'll have trouble injecting a hot enough CO2/plasma injection to push the gasses to the flashpoint temp. 0.85 means any post-burn CO2 will push it to detonation levels for a single tank.

To clarify, 0.33 is used to generate hot CO2 specifically because it burns slower, is my understanding, and the higher the ratio is (up to ~.90) the faster the lightoff goes Yeah?

Pandarsenic wrote:I thiiiink we're talking about the same thing. The problem above about 0.85 is that you'll have trouble injecting a hot enough CO2/plasma injection to push the gasses to the flashpoint temp. 0.85 means any post-burn CO2 will push it to detonation levels for a single tank.

To clarify, 0.33 is used to generate hot CO2 specifically because it burns slower, is my understanding, and the higher the ratio is (up to ~.90) the faster the lightoff goes Yeah?

I think so. The higher the initial temperature, the quicker the plasma will react with the oxygen (iirc it's ~100c for oxygen to burn) and the less chance you have to fuck off before it explodes. The rule I worked by is your 'ideal' heat is just enough to cause the oxygen to ignite (which has the added bonus of helping your ratio), but my designs shifted away from CO2 a while ago. From what I've been able to piece together from the code and dicking around, you'd want as much oxygen as you can cram into a canister/tank and as little CO2 as possible. Preferably none, if you can help it, but that limits you to TTV bombs for all intents and purposes (you don't need to use a toxins burn chamber/mixer at all if you're doing 10/20/40 TTVs).

I wish I was more helpful for canister bombs, but I've really not found the need to experiment with them. The theory is pretty much universal though, AFAIK; 1:9 tox/O2 with as much of a temperature disparity as is realistically possible without wasting space by overheating your hot mix.

EDIT: Please be patient with any errors in my reasoning/understanding, my knowledge comes first from experience, second from comparing notes with others (they know who they are >:D) and thirdly from skimming the atmos code.

The original reason why I even figured out how to make canister bombs was to experiment just HOW dangerous a single assistant can become with nothing but maint access. Answer: VERY, VERY DANGEROUS. I'm very pleased to see what a form of art Pandar took that particular branch of boomscience to.

As for boom in general, yeah, you'll want as much as possible of both oxygen and plasma, and you want both as cold as possible, while still making sure the final mix will be above ignition point.

The trick with CO2 is that it's the most easily available super-hot gas you can get, since it's produced from burn chambers. The "perfect" bomb combines hot Plasma with cool O2 because cooling the O2 means you can pack more moles of it into your tank.

For those unaware, I initially made canister bombs off of that principle - injecting hot plasma from a canister into a normal O2 tank. That worked, but it wasn't efficient. It'll get you FAR past the bomb cap, but if all you need is 3/7/14, injecting CO2 into a mix of 85% O2 and 15% toxin is VERY easy to mass-produce at the incinerator from the canisters and pressure tanks already available, if you provide an additional canister to transfer some of the plasma into so you have a reserve for making your bomb mix tanks for your CO2 canisters to inject into.

Pandarsenic wrote:The trick with CO2 is that it's the most easily available super-hot gas you can get, since it's produced from burn chambers. The "perfect" bomb combines hot Plasma with cool O2 because cooling the O2 means you can pack more moles of it into your tank.

For those unaware, I initially made canister bombs off of that principle - injecting hot plasma from a canister into a normal O2 tank. That worked, but it wasn't efficient. It'll get you FAR past the bomb cap, but if all you need is 3/7/14, injecting CO2 into a mix of 85% O2 and 15% toxin is VERY easy to mass-produce at the incinerator from the canisters and pressure tanks already available, if you provide an additional canister to transfer some of the plasma into so you have a reserve for making your bomb mix tanks for your CO2 canisters to inject into.

How do you set off a canister bomb without killing yourself?

Psyentific wrote:

Pandarsenic wrote:The trick with CO2 is that it's the most easily available super-hot gas you can get, since it's produced from burn chambers. The "perfect" bomb combines hot Plasma with cool O2 because cooling the O2 means you can pack more moles of it into your tank.

For those unaware, I initially made canister bombs off of that principle - injecting hot plasma from a canister into a normal O2 tank. That worked, but it wasn't efficient. It'll get you FAR past the bomb cap, but if all you need is 3/7/14, injecting CO2 into a mix of 85% O2 and 15% toxin is VERY easy to mass-produce at the incinerator from the canisters and pressure tanks already available, if you provide an additional canister to transfer some of the plasma into so you have a reserve for making your bomb mix tanks for your CO2 canisters to inject into.

How do you set off a canister bomb without killing yourself?

The explosion is dependent on how long it takes the oxygen and plasma to overpressurize the canister.

Basically, you run really fast.

The trick with CO2 is that it's the most easily available super-hot gas you can get, since it's produced from burn chambers. The "perfect" bomb combines hot Plasma with cool O2 because cooling the O2 means you can pack more moles of it into your tank.

For those unaware, I initially made canister bombs off of that principle - injecting hot plasma from a canister into a normal O2 tank. That worked, but it wasn't efficient. It'll get you FAR past the bomb cap, but if all you need is 3/7/14, injecting CO2 into a mix of 85% O2 and 15% toxin is VERY easy to mass-produce at the incinerator from the canisters and pressure tanks already available, if you provide an additional canister to transfer some of the plasma into so you have a reserve for making your bomb mix tanks for your CO2 canisters to inject into.

Oh yeah, don't worry I know; the quickest way to make any form of bomb to hit the default bombcap is CO2. I wasn't saying CO2 bombs were bad, just not the way to make the biggest explosions (as you pointed out). Really, CO2 is fine unless the admins on are kind and toggle the bombcap up to max in exchange for your TC. Then... well, time to jihad.

I'm not very good at atmos or Toxins, so correct me if I'm wrong.
But I was thinking:
Can you freeze two canisters of O2 and cram that into one canister; then heat two canister of plasma to the bare minimum of instant combustion and cram them into one canister; then you end up with a canister with twice the moles of oxygen and another full of twice the moles of plasma and then set them up in a basic assembly, like this:
Two connection ports united by a manual valve, with these two canisters on one of the ports. The question is:
Would opening the manual valve distribute the gases fast enough to create an enormous, spontaneous explosion? Or would it just fizzle and leak gas? Or even worse...would the pressures simply be contained within the pipes, making the reaction inert?

Explosions only happen when tanks are ruptured due to internal pressure. When I was a fresh NT recruit, I too dreamed of turning atmos into a huge bomb, but alas, it will not happen.

FreakyM wrote:Explosions only happen when tanks are ruptured due to internal pressure. When I was a fresh NT recruit, I too dreamed of turning atmos into a huge bomb, but alas, it will not happen.

Well there was that time earlier with an Atmo Tech constructing a bridge from the plasma tank to the station-proper.