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/tg/ station playstyle, Powergaming vs [E]RPing
Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 2:36 am
by CitrusGender
so after consulting with some of the /tg/ crew, many people felt that there was a powergaming problem and I decided to make a poll to actually give data to that problem. Here are the results:
(raw poll data here, feel free to vote if you haven't already)
http://www.strawpoll.me/13652824/
To be honest, I am slightly surprised that many hardliner RP folks emerged and only two people professed to be completely powergamers. Maybe it was a problem with the wording of the poll or do you guys feel like it's accurate? Personally, I fall more on the powergame style of the spectrum, but that may be because I play medical mostly and it's rather difficult to roleplay while playing medical (since people are screaming at you to heal them.) Just thought I'd post the results here for discussion. The poll was posted to both bagil and sybil as well as the /tg/ station discord so (as of now) we have 58 votes, which was much more than I expected.
Thoughts?
Re: /tg/ station playstyle, Powergaming vs [E]RPing
Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 3:25 am
by AnonymousNow
"RP oriented by may Powergame sometimes" is now in the lead, mind.
Re: /tg/ station playstyle, Powergaming vs [E]RPing
Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 3:28 am
by DemonFiren
Because people who don't play and only shitpost on the forums are voting for it now.
Re: /tg/ station playstyle, Powergaming vs [E]RPing
Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 3:36 am
by D&B
I find it cute how everyone powergames to a different degree and yet some treat it like a dirty little word.
It's a worthless label that some oldfags and rarely plays use to try to gain a faux high ground.
Re: /tg/ station playstyle, Powergaming vs [E]RPing
Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 5:17 pm
by XDTM
I think in another thread the "powergame" problem was identified more as a lack of sportmanship.
To make an example, if you examined someone and you saw their backpack as "chameleon backpack", despite it being identical to a normal one, would you:
A - Ignore it
B - Tell the guy and close an eye
C - VALID
Picking C is technically justified, since the guy is a traitor and may end up bombing something and so on, but it still kinda sucks as the traitor got arrested/killed not because of his actions or planned actions, but because his "antag" label was showing.
Stuff like this leads to salt and resentment, which spills out onto future rounds where the guy will just try to get his entertainment as early as possible, before being stopped, which usually means minute one bomb/murderbone. Which in turn means that sec and validhunters will escalate and try to permanently stop any antags they spot, because many are trying to do as much damage as possible as early as possible, leading to a vicious cycle that's especially annoying to the people in the middle who get murderboned by the antags and arrested by an overzealous security.
Re: /tg/ station playstyle, Powergaming vs [E]RPing
Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 7:21 pm
by Dr_bee
XDTM wrote:I think in another thread the "powergame" problem was identified more as a lack of sportmanship.
This is the major problem in my opinion. neither security nor antagonists give the other side any slack. Security treats any sign that a person might be an antagonist as free reign to kill people, which often leads to people being straight up murdered for having shoes with fancy grip on the bottom.
from an RP perspective that is fucking horrifying, and from a gameplay perspective this leads to boring rounds. Antagonists are the cause of FUN during a round, killing them early just means boring as fuck rounds.
In turn, antags dont give sec any slack, and non-antags dont either for that matter. People actively fuck with security officers who arent gestapo.
This can only really be changed with a policy change. Antags would need to lose their perma-valid status, with murdering them for no reason having the same (or possibly slightly diminished) consequences as murdering anyone else for flimsy reasoning.
In turn, fucking with Sec as a non antag needs to be an OOC issue more often. And murdering a sec officer with flimsy cause needs to be considered more severe than murdering any other crewman, considering it is THEIR JOB to do what would be escalation worthy if done by any other job.
Re: /tg/ station playstyle, Powergaming vs [E]RPing
Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 7:45 pm
by FantasticFwoosh
RP to give people the benefit of the doubt and a warning and its a inevitable slide to they'll do the antag think you just asked them to not do immediately after you leave.
And when you're proactive you're turbohitler powergamer. Mmmhmm.
Re: /tg/ station playstyle, Powergaming vs [E]RPing
Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 8:16 pm
by BeeSting12
XDTM wrote:I think in another thread the "powergame" problem was identified more as a lack of sportmanship.
To make an example, if you examined someone and you saw their backpack as "chameleon backpack", despite it being identical to a normal one, would you:
A - Ignore it
B - Tell the guy and close an eye
C - VALID
Picking C is technically justified, since the guy is a traitor and may end up bombing something and so on, but it still kinda sucks as the traitor got arrested/killed not because of his actions or planned actions, but because his "antag" label was showing.
Like, as security, that's my job. He was wearing a chameleon backpack and got caught. It's fairly likely that I'll arrest him, search him, and release with a tracker/chem implant and confiscate his PDA because he is in fact an enemy of the corporation, and could be doing something to endanger the crew/sec. Really poor sportsmanship would be killing him over this under normal circumstances- if shit is fucked I can understand it. Otherwise it's just security doing their job, next time he should plan better/understand the game mechanic better.
Dr_bee wrote:XDTM wrote:I think in another thread the "powergame" problem was identified more as a lack of sportmanship.
This is the major problem in my opinion. neither security nor antagonists give the other side any slack. Security treats any sign that a person might be an antagonist as free reign to kill people, which often leads to people being straight up murdered for having shoes with fancy grip on the bottom.
from an RP perspective that is fucking horrifying, and from a gameplay perspective this leads to boring rounds. Antagonists are the cause of FUN during a round, killing them early just means boring as fuck rounds.
In turn, antags dont give sec any slack, and non-antags dont either for that matter. People actively fuck with security officers who arent gestapo.
This can only really be changed with a policy change. Antags would need to lose their perma-valid status, with murdering them for no reason having the same (or possibly slightly diminished) consequences as murdering anyone else for flimsy reasoning.
In turn, fucking with Sec as a non antag needs to be an OOC issue more often. And murdering a sec officer with flimsy cause needs to be considered more severe than murdering any other crewman, considering it is THEIR JOB to do what would be escalation worthy if done by any other job.
Baystation is that way. Nonantags fucking with sec on slow rounds creatively can be fun for both sides, some of the funnest "rev" rounds I've had have been putting down/aiding riots caused by RP reasons all done by nonantags (or fueled by antagonists). Tiding security 4noraisins isn't funny or especially fun, but finding a good IC reason to do so and starting a riot is fun for both sides. We should have more IC issues instead of OOC issues, as demonstrated by Russell's ban appeal in which he got noted for killing a clown that stole his flightsuit, which is about as IC as it gets.
Anyways, onto the subject of the thread- I try to RP a lot, but oftentimes I'm in positions where it's difficult to RP without getting murdered, which I hate having happen to me as security because my ID/gear getting lose can endanger my fellow officers/crewmates. On team antagonist rounds, RP pretty much does not happen or happens during slow moments only for me since I'm generally trying to fight the threat. Extended, traitorling, wizard rounds, etc, tend to see more roleplay from me at least because there isn't a round ending threat that needs to be combatted. (Don't take this the wrong way, I still enjoy team antag rounds, just stating that they don't have as much RP unless the antagonists are bad, in which case welcome to pseudo extended with sec as the main antagonist)
Re: /tg/ station playstyle, Powergaming vs [E]RPing
Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 10:21 pm
by bandit
"powergamer" is like "hipster," no one's going to admit to being one
Re: /tg/ station playstyle, Powergaming vs [E]RPing
Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 10:26 pm
by CPTANT
Playing as sec I would say it isn't even that common to find non-harmful antags. Those usually go under the radar.
The only time such items are found is usually when the person arrested was committing other crimes anyway.
But even then I probably won't perma/kill you just for having some shitty traitor item.
Things like emags however just completely fuck up the station and will land you in perma if you are caught with one.
Re: /tg/ station playstyle, Powergaming vs [E]RPing
Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 10:28 pm
by CPTANT
bandit wrote:"powergamer" is like "hipster," no one's going to admit to being one
It's a shit term anyway, because playing to complete your objectives or prevent antags from completing theirs is part of the game.
Gamemodes like rev, gang and cult are virtually always pure powergaming by both sides.
Re: /tg/ station playstyle, Powergaming vs [E]RPing
Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 2:07 am
by 1g88a
Powergaming is more of a state of mind than any one specific action (outside of say, counting staff to guess if its flukeops) in my opinion.
Re: /tg/ station playstyle, Powergaming vs [E]RPing
Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 2:31 am
by Wyzack
bandit wrote:"powergamer" is like "hipster," no one's going to admit to being one
Re: /tg/ station playstyle, Powergaming vs [E]RPing
Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 3:14 am
by CitrusGender
Wyzack wrote:bandit wrote:"powergamer" is like "hipster," no one's going to admit to being one
I mean, it is an anonymous poll. Though, I think you are correct: perhaps using a word different than powergaming would make more sense. Perhaps saying "Do you play to win or do you play to roleplay?" and the various levels of said extremity. Still, I feel like powergaming should speak for itself as "playing to win."
Re: /tg/ station playstyle, Powergaming vs [E]RPing
Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 3:47 pm
by CPTANT
CitrusGender wrote:Wyzack wrote:bandit wrote:"powergamer" is like "hipster," no one's going to admit to being one
I mean, it is an anonymous poll. Though, I think you are correct: perhaps using a word different than powergaming would make more sense. Perhaps saying "Do you play to win or do you play to roleplay?" and the various levels of said extremity. Still, I feel like powergaming should speak for itself as "playing to win."
That's not how words work. The word powergamer has a negative connotation, playing to win far less so.
It's like the difference between calling someone a whore or a prostitute.
Re: /tg/ station playstyle, Powergaming vs [E]RPing
Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 7:07 pm
by Deitus
Deitus wrote:the term "powergamer" seriously pisses me off, it is a buzzword amongst buzzwords.
like seriously, if its a traitorling with adrenals/double esword/fleshmend then you can start complaining a bit, but 99.99% of the time people use the phrase it is a huge case of the gitguds
2 examples:
>people whining and bitching in deadchat about dying to cyrostings
>this had been going on for a long time and deaths due to it were piling up
>"ugh gosh its so op there's literally no counter it needs to be removed"
>hey guys why not just drink some coffee/stand under a cold shower/slap some burn heals on for a minute or two? that'l fix it right up
>"wow that is so fucking powergamey sorry im not as big a shitter as you"
>play as RD on blob round
>immediately kick rnd into overdrive
>scream into comms/pda/use RD announcer to tell cargo to get combat shotguns
>other crew tell them to do it too
>have everything i need but the guns
>go to cargo to pick them up
>they had ordered a bunch of eguns
>blob wins easily
>me and a bunch of others grill the dude in post-round OOC
>"i didnt know im new to cargo"
>dude at LEAST five different people were telling you to do this repeatedly, if we had x-rays we couldve won
>"x-rays are so powergamey, stop being powergamers idiots"
objective knowledge about game mechanics is NOT powergaming, and if you unironically use this phrase i can bet money you just got your shit kicked in and are using it to whine. use of this phrase is the easiest way to spot shitters / people who need to get fucking good.
Re: /tg/ station playstyle, Powergaming vs [E]RPing
Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 7:08 pm
by DemonFiren
>selfquoting
Commit sudoku.
Re: /tg/ station playstyle, Powergaming vs [E]RPing
Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 7:13 pm
by Armhulen
DemonFiren wrote:>selfquoting
Commit sudoku.
he's completely right though
Re: /tg/ station playstyle, Powergaming vs [E]RPing
Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 7:21 pm
by DemonFiren
DemonFiren wrote:>selfquoting
Commit sudoku.
Re: /tg/ station playstyle, Powergaming vs [E]RPing
Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 7:22 pm
by Armhulen
DemonFiren wrote:DemonFiren wrote:>selfquoting
Commit sudoku.
now hol up a sec
Re: /tg/ station playstyle, Powergaming vs [E]RPing
Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 8:53 pm
by DemonFiren
Armhulen wrote:DemonFiren wrote:DemonFiren wrote:>selfquoting
Commit sudoku.
now hol up a sec
Re: /tg/ station playstyle, Powergaming vs [E]RPing
Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 9:08 pm
by Armhulen
CosmicScientist wrote:He seeeees it.
what a pretty frog
Re: /tg/ station playstyle, Powergaming vs [E]RPing
Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 9:27 pm
by PKPenguin321
this poll uses the term powergaming juxtaposed next to RP, implying that there's no in-between and that powergaming is defined as playing the game like it's a video game, which it is, which is kind of confusing
Re: /tg/ station playstyle, Powergaming vs [E]RPing
Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 10:31 pm
by oranges
Re: /tg/ station playstyle, Powergaming vs [E]RPing
Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 10:42 pm
by TheColdTurtle
Anyone who votes "very rp orientated" should play the game once
Re: /tg/ station playstyle, Powergaming vs [E]RPing
Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 10:57 pm
by captain sawrge
oranges wrote:
Cute!
Re: /tg/ station playstyle, Powergaming vs [E]RPing
Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 10:59 pm
by 1g88a
PKPenguin321 wrote:this poll uses the term powergaming juxtaposed next to RP, implying that there's no in-between and that powergaming is defined as playing the game like it's a video game, which it is, which is kind of confusing
A better poll would probably be just asking how likely people are to run a gimmick/hang around the bars/stages/etc. or try to create events (fight clubs etc) themselves.
Re: /tg/ station playstyle, Powergaming vs [E]RPing
Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 11:23 pm
by CitrusGender
oranges wrote:
hi oranges
CPTANT wrote:CitrusGender wrote:Wyzack wrote:bandit wrote:"powergamer" is like "hipster," no one's going to admit to being one
I mean, it is an anonymous poll. Though, I think you are correct: perhaps using a word different than powergaming would make more sense. Perhaps saying "Do you play to win or do you play to roleplay?" and the various levels of said extremity. Still, I feel like powergaming should speak for itself as "playing to win."
That's not how words work. The word powergamer has a negative connotation, playing to win far less so.
It's like the difference between calling someone a whore or a prostitute.
This I understand. Alright, does that mean that I need to run the poll again but instead of calling it powergaming, I'll call it "playing to win" versus "playing to roleplay" with the inbetween. That was kind what i was trying to replicate penguins, but obviously the meaning of powergaming to some people causes "rp and powergame oriented" to be too abstract. guess I need to do another vote, unless anyone else has any other ideas