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80+ admins yet there arent enough for 2/3 of the day

PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 9:20 am
by Tlaltecuhtli
either demote these trainermins for recluiting more americans or start giving australians admin privileges

Re: 80+ admins yet there arent enough for 2/3 of the day

PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 9:58 am
by terranaut
put me back on the admin team :)

Re: 80+ admins yet there arent enough for 2/3 of the day

PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 10:22 am
by subject217
first: there are 68 people with admin powers currently and i'd say maybe half of those people log on very infrequently as a ballpark guess
second: we will give more australians admin powers when australia produces better admin candidates

Re: 80+ admins yet there arent enough for 2/3 of the day

PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 10:24 am
by Karp
I forgot where kor said it but we've continually and consistently had an issue with a lack of administration on lowpop for 11+ years and "just get more lowpop admins" has not worked as a solution that entire time

it's not an issue we can solve with "lol just admin more people" because people will eventually get burnt out or their life schedules will move around so they cant fill the timeslot, it's just an awkward as fuck timezone to fill that's at the perfect intersection of bad time for everyone

Re: 80+ admins yet there arent enough for 2/3 of the day

PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 1:40 pm
by lmwevil
as an aussie i can safely say that you don't want more aussie admins

also yknow, this isn't policy it's a complaint

Re: 80+ admins yet there arent enough for 2/3 of the day

PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 2:06 pm
by TehSteveo
Admin coverage has always been a problem. Even when we had a lot Aussiemins, there was never had enough for certain times. As I said in previous statements about coverage, being an admin isn't a job, admins are not paid for this thus they can choose when to come on and when to go, when they want to actually admin or actually play this game.

If something happens, just let it happen and embrace the chaos of the game. If something consistently bad happens such as someone who consistently breaks the rules and griefs then Ahelp it, ping people on Discord with the round ID, and if you have to PM the admins on the forums as someone will take their time to investigate logs.

Re: 80+ admins yet there arent enough for 2/3 of the day

PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 2:47 pm
by TheMythicGhost
TehSteveo wrote:If something happens, just let it happen and embrace the chaos of the game. If something consistently bad happens such as someone who consistently breaks the rules and griefs then Ahelp it, ping people on Discord with the round ID, and if you have to PM the admins on the forums as someone will take their time to investigate logs.


Except the issue that happened early this morning. There were two griefers on Bagil, one by the name of Smeggy Crumbles, and one Abraham something. Smeggy plasmaflooded and n2o flooded as non-antag, then tried to kill the warden. Abraham just BOH bombs the brig out of nowhere. For about an hour and a half, I ping supportmins on discord, despite quite a few being active and online in a non-busy/non-away status, and talking in various channels, none respond to the call for help on bagil. So I get other people to try and ping supportmins, still nothing. DB apparently goes down during this round, so once the round finally ends about an hour and 45 minutes in, no log is saved on atlanta-ned's statbus. The griefing goes completely unpunished, and likely will happen again sometime during these 'dead-zone' hours. I feel if people have the supportmin role, they need to accept the responsibility behind it, and get online when pinged if they're online or lose the role entirely, otherwise actual griefing can go unpunished because they 'didn't feel like responding'.

Edit: The point of this is that it's not that there aren't admins on around these times, it's that there is, but none seem to want to administrate despite that being the exact reason they're admins.

Re: 80+ admins yet there arent enough for 2/3 of the day

PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 3:20 pm
by Nabski
TheMythicGhost wrote:Stuff

Just because you're able to use discord doesn't mean you can get to a computer and log in to space station.

Re: 80+ admins yet there arent enough for 2/3 of the day

PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 3:25 pm
by TheMythicGhost
Nabski wrote:
TheMythicGhost wrote:Stuff

Just because you're able to use discord doesn't mean you can get to a computer and log in to space station.


Sick bants, but the supportmins in question were not on mobile.

Re: 80+ admins yet there arent enough for 2/3 of the day

PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 5:01 pm
by TehSteveo
TheMythicGhost wrote:
TehSteveo wrote:If something happens, just let it happen and embrace the chaos of the game. If something consistently bad happens such as someone who consistently breaks the rules and griefs then Ahelp it, ping people on Discord with the round ID, and if you have to PM the admins on the forums as someone will take their time to investigate logs.


Except the issue that happened early this morning. There were two griefers on Bagil, one by the name of Smeggy Crumbles, and one Abraham something. Smeggy plasmaflooded and n2o flooded as non-antag, then tried to kill the warden. Abraham just BOH bombs the brig out of nowhere. For about an hour and a half, I ping supportmins on discord, despite quite a few being active and online in a non-busy/non-away status, and talking in various channels, none respond to the call for help on bagil. So I get other people to try and ping supportmins, still nothing. DB apparently goes down during this round, so once the round finally ends about an hour and 45 minutes in, no log is saved on atlanta-ned's statbus. The griefing goes completely unpunished, and likely will happen again sometime during these 'dead-zone' hours. I feel if people have the supportmin role, they need to accept the responsibility behind it, and get online when pinged if they're online or lose the role entirely, otherwise actual griefing can go unpunished because they 'didn't feel like responding'.

Edit: The point of this is that it's not that there aren't admins on around these times, it's that there is, but none seem to want to administrate despite that being the exact reason they're admins.
Just because they're on Discord doesn't mean they're home or available to log into a game. Many are at work, classes, or just not near a computer but are on mobile. Even if they are at a computer doesn't mean they can or are held to immediately log on. The whole entitlement for demanding an admin is ridiculous.

Now, did you get the round ID number during this whole time as we can use our tools to pull the log?

Re: 80+ admins yet there arent enough for 2/3 of the day

PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 5:37 pm
by Ayy Lemoh
TehSteveo wrote:DB apparently goes down during this round, so once the round finally ends about an hour and 45 minutes in, no log is saved on atlanta-ned's statbus. The griefing goes completely unpunished, and likely will happen again sometime during these 'dead-zone' hours.

Steveo, you forgot that part.

If Mythic does remember the id then that would be nice since maybe, just maybe, the logs are still saved otherwise someone is just gonna have to search through all the logs until they find the right round. This assumes that the logs even exist.

Re: 80+ admins yet there arent enough for 2/3 of the day

PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 5:56 pm
by TehSteveo
Ayy Lemoh wrote:
TehSteveo wrote:DB apparently goes down during this round, so once the round finally ends about an hour and 45 minutes in, no log is saved on atlanta-ned's statbus. The griefing goes completely unpunished, and likely will happen again sometime during these 'dead-zone' hours.

Steveo, you forgot that part.

If Mythic does remember the id then that would be nice since maybe, just maybe, the logs are still saved otherwise someone is just gonna have to search through all the logs until they find the right round. This assumes that the logs even exist.
I read that and It's speculation on their part as they're assuming it went down as it can quite well be Statbus having a fit.

We still have the logs internally with admin tools and the parsed logs. If they looked at the round ID in the status bar then it saves us time rather than, "Well it happened in the weeee hours of the morning of this day." Doesn't help matters.

Re: 80+ admins yet there arent enough for 2/3 of the day

PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 6:00 pm
by TheMythicGhost
TehSteveo wrote:
Ayy Lemoh wrote:
TehSteveo wrote:DB apparently goes down during this round, so once the round finally ends about an hour and 45 minutes in, no log is saved on atlanta-ned's statbus. The griefing goes completely unpunished, and likely will happen again sometime during these 'dead-zone' hours.

Steveo, you forgot that part.

If Mythic does remember the id then that would be nice since maybe, just maybe, the logs are still saved otherwise someone is just gonna have to search through all the logs until they find the right round. This assumes that the logs even exist.
I read that and It's speculation on their part as they're assuming it went down as it can quite well be Statbus having a fit.

We still have the logs internally with admin tools and the parsed logs. If they looked at the round ID in the status bar then it saves us time rather than, "Well it happened in the weeee hours of the morning of this day." Doesn't help matters.


Assuming the logs are saved serverside, 104948 is the round. The point still stands though.

Edit: As a side note, I get people have personal lives and have matters to attend to in real life, but actually being available (not on mobile, not away, not busy, and not offline) and talking on different channels in the same discord while ignoring the ping to the supportmin role, while being supportmin is the issue here, perhaps worthy of a separate policy discussion.

Re: 80+ admins yet there arent enough for 2/3 of the day

PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 6:11 pm
by Nabski
TheMythicGhost wrote:
TehSteveo wrote:
Ayy Lemoh wrote:
TehSteveo wrote:DB apparently goes down during this round, so once the round finally ends about an hour and 45 minutes in, no log is saved on atlanta-ned's statbus. The griefing goes completely unpunished, and likely will happen again sometime during these 'dead-zone' hours.

Steveo, you forgot that part.

If Mythic does remember the id then that would be nice since maybe, just maybe, the logs are still saved otherwise someone is just gonna have to search through all the logs until they find the right round. This assumes that the logs even exist.
I read that and It's speculation on their part as they're assuming it went down as it can quite well be Statbus having a fit.

We still have the logs internally with admin tools and the parsed logs. If they looked at the round ID in the status bar then it saves us time rather than, "Well it happened in the weeee hours of the morning of this day." Doesn't help matters.


Assuming the logs are saved serverside, 104948 is the round. The point still stands though.

Edit: As a side note, I get people have personal lives and have matters to attend to in real life, but actually being available (not on mobile, not away, not busy, and not offline) and talking on different channels in the same discord while ignoring the ping to the supportmin role, while being supportmin is the issue here, perhaps worthy of a separate policy discussion.

So go make that thread.

"What additional requirements for the opt-in support ping for the volunteer job should be required"

It'll be right up there with the "give me a antag token when the server crashes" thread.

Re: 80+ admins yet there arent enough for 2/3 of the day

PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 6:19 pm
by BeeSting12
not all of us are neets like you

Re: 80+ admins yet there arent enough for 2/3 of the day

PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 6:24 pm
by TheMythicGhost
So here's the issue with being actually active, and having the job as a volunteer support role. Imagine I signed up to work as a volunteer for a hospital, and someone calls me in because of something or another, and instead of reporting in, I ignore it to play fortnite, apex, sekiro, etc? The main issue here is that it undermines the public trust in the administration because the one role meant for support requests is going ignored by the people inside of it (actually inactive supportmins excluded from this). If the people don't feel like being a supportmin, and the responsibility it does entail, then perhaps opt-out, and talk about recruiting more. Accountability is something that should be addressed, but again it's a complex topic here because life is unexpected, and not all supportmins are at fault here.

Re: 80+ admins yet there arent enough for 2/3 of the day

PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 7:30 pm
by Nalzul
TheMythicGhost wrote:I feel if people have the supportmin role, they need to accept the responsibility behind it.

The Supportmin role has no additional benefits to the admins who take it. Additionally, Supportmins are not hired from within the admins, it's something you opt into to help when pinged. Comparing the two (admins and hospital volunteers) is a bit disingenuous because, as a volunteer, you are being called specifically by your boss. Whereas with admins you are being called in by the community in a general and broad way, which is to say it's up to you to pick up the phone.

Re: 80+ admins yet there arent enough for 2/3 of the day

PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 7:32 pm
by Ayy Lemoh
Nabski wrote:"What additional requirements for the opt-in support ping for the volunteer job should be required"

It'll be right up there with the "give me a antag token when the server crashes" thread.

Supportmins should do things =/= GIMME THE TRAITOR ANTAG TOKEN SO I CAN BE TRAITOR IN THE MIDDLE OF REVS
Supportmins MUST help whenever I ping =/= guys, the server crashed in the last five seconds of the round. antag token please.
Supportmins have to do shit if they're active and just shitposting on discord otherwise they die =/= how do i crash ss13 for my wizard antag token.

I can see the retardation in a thread like that however there is a difference. It's not like Mythic is asking for antag because rshoe94 just crashed the entire ss13 database gosh darn it. They just want griefers dealt with when they fucking call for help and see memelord mcgee shitposting. Also, even someone who is active can have valid reason to not go (too tired, spent hours doing that shit already, wants to play a video game, is busy but not discord-busy-tagged) so that thread would go nowhere anyways since how the fuck would you know?

Re: 80+ admins yet there arent enough for 2/3 of the day

PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 7:46 pm
by wubli
TheMythicGhost wrote:So here's the issue with being actually active, and having the job as a volunteer support role. Imagine I signed up to work as a volunteer for a hospital, and someone calls me in because of something or another, and instead of reporting in, I ignore it to play fortnite, apex, sekiro, etc?

i legitimately do not understand how can you even dare to compare being an admin in a game to being a volunteer for a hospital

Re: 80+ admins yet there arent enough for 2/3 of the day

PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 7:49 pm
by TheMythicGhost
wubli wrote:
TheMythicGhost wrote:So here's the issue with being actually active, and having the job as a volunteer support role. Imagine I signed up to work as a volunteer for a hospital, and someone calls me in because of something or another, and instead of reporting in, I ignore it to play fortnite, apex, sekiro, etc?

i legitimately do not understand how can you even dare to compare being an admin in a game to being a volunteer for a hospital


Semantics. I could have said any other volunteer role and you would have picked it apart all the same. The context is similar, just worded poorly.

Re: 80+ admins yet there arent enough for 2/3 of the day

PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 7:54 pm
by TheMythicGhost
Nalzul wrote:
TheMythicGhost wrote:I feel if people have the supportmin role, they need to accept the responsibility behind it.

The Supportmin role has no additional benefits to the admins who take it. Additionally, Supportmins are not hired from within the admins, it's something you opt into to help when pinged. Comparing the two (admins and hospital volunteers) is a bit disingenuous because, as a volunteer, you are being called specifically by your boss. Whereas with admins you are being called in by the community in a general and broad way, which is to say it's up to you to pick up the phone.


The difference in just being random cry wolf calls here is that it was not only I requesting supportmins to the server the exact round this occurred, and it isn't the first time in the last six months I've seen this occur. The graveyard hours tend to be grief central, and when an admin finally does arrive, they berate the player for not pinging them sooner (as has happened in the past), or simply don't respond to the support request at all. If they don't respond within the round, and berate the player for the situation when they arrive later on, what is the point in a supportmin role?

Additionally, I did not state it had additional power to it, I merely mentioned it exists to give players the means to contact a team who has volunteered to respond to issues that require support on the servers. If a supportmin is active (the conditions here aforementioned), but decides not to respond because they're lazy, it undermines the trust the community has in the ability of the role itself.

Re: 80+ admins yet there arent enough for 2/3 of the day

PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 7:55 pm
by subject217
ill explain this very simply respii

this is a video game and it is not real life. we do not have the obligation, need, desire, or the ability to actually organize and plan admin coverage 24/7 for the server. this is not like volunteer work in real life. this is a video game.

Re: 80+ admins yet there arent enough for 2/3 of the day

PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 7:57 pm
by Qbopper
volunteering for a job, any kind at all, is completely different from volunteering to admin and if you can't see why that's the case then you're probably arguing in bad faith

this thread is a joke and every time this subject comes up in the future it will continue to be laughed at

no community trust is being undermined when admins are occupied with life - admins are not paid to admin and if you have that big of a problem with a supportmin deciding to use some of their free time in a way that isn't addressing your issue in a round based game where the problem will likely go away anyways then you need to chill

if it's legitimately and seriously a critical issue then take logs or a video to prove what's going on later so when someone responds you can have someone do something about it

Re: 80+ admins yet there arent enough for 2/3 of the day

PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 7:57 pm
by TheMythicGhost
subject217 wrote:ill explain this very simply respii

this is a video game and it is not real life. we do not have the obligation, need, desire, or the ability to actually organize and plan admin coverage 24/7 for the server. this is not like volunteer work in real life. this is a video game.


Not saying it's not, Subject. I'm saying, the Supportmin tag should only exist on those that will actively answer support requests if they are available. It's not a stigma or shame to opt-out if you don't feel like having it, but if it exists, it should be at least to a degree reliable. I'm not wrong for suggesting that, am I?

Re: 80+ admins yet there arent enough for 2/3 of the day

PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 8:00 pm
by wubli
TheMythicGhost wrote:
wubli wrote:
TheMythicGhost wrote:So here's the issue with being actually active, and having the job as a volunteer support role. Imagine I signed up to work as a volunteer for a hospital, and someone calls me in because of something or another, and instead of reporting in, I ignore it to play fortnite, apex, sekiro, etc?

i legitimately do not understand how can you even dare to compare being an admin in a game to being a volunteer for a hospital

Semantics. I could have said any other volunteer role and you would have picked it apart all the same. The context is similar, just worded poorly.

context is important. like subject said, this is a videogame. i've brought in a lot of new admins and i'm constantly trying to bring more. i cannot force them at gunpoint and i appreciate what they do.

and no, supportmin didn't exist before. now, you have the chance to ping admins who maybe will be willing to help you if they have the time and feel like it. we're not forcing them to respond to any calls. it's not something people are entitled to.

Re: 80+ admins yet there arent enough for 2/3 of the day

PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 8:23 pm
by Tlaltecuhtli
i give you a death line admin team, after 1/4/19 i ll organize anti grief squads and solve problems icly

Re: 80+ admins yet there arent enough for 2/3 of the day

PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 8:46 pm
by Denton
TheMythicGhost wrote:Imagine I signed up to work as a volunteer for a hospital

Are you really high or did you honestly compare being an admin for a 2D clown punching simulator to volunteering at a hospotal

Re: 80+ admins yet there arent enough for 2/3 of the day

PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 8:48 pm
by TheMythicGhost
Denton wrote:
TheMythicGhost wrote:Imagine I signed up to work as a volunteer for a hospital

Are you really high or did you honestly compare being an admin for a 2D clown punching simulator to volunteering at a hospotal


I love how people are cherrypicking that instead of the argument.

Re: 80+ admins yet there arent enough for 2/3 of the day

PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 8:49 pm
by Gigapuddi420
TheMythicGhost wrote:I'm saying, the Supportmin tag should only exist on those that will actively answer support requests if they are available

The Supportmin tag exists for admins who generally want to try and make themselves more available for players to ping when there is a problem. People ping the role and they all hear it and depending on their circumstances they might go and handle it. If we had actual requirements to answer supportmin pings whenever these people were online with the tag no one would want to take it, people admin on their own terms because they are all volunteers for a video game. Efforts are made to improve coverage but admin hours will always be on the individual admins terms.

Re: 80+ admins yet there arent enough for 2/3 of the day

PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 8:51 pm
by Qbopper
TheMythicGhost wrote:So here's the issue with being actually active, and having the job as a volunteer support role. Imagine I signed up to work as a volunteer, and someone calls me in because of something or another, and instead of reporting in, I ignore it to play fortnite, apex, sekiro, etc? The main issue here is that it undermines the public trust in the administration because the one role meant for support requests is going ignored by the people inside of it (actually inactive supportmins excluded from this). If the people don't feel like being a supportmin, and the responsibility it does entail, then perhaps opt-out, and talk about recruiting more. Accountability is something that should be addressed, but again it's a complex topic here because life is unexpected, and not all supportmins are at fault here.


i removed the offending part of your post

it is still a stupid as shit post

Re: 80+ admins yet there arent enough for 2/3 of the day

PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 8:53 pm
by Arianya
Tlaltecuhtli wrote:i give you a death line admin team, after 1/4/19 i ll organize anti grief squads and solve problems icly


Then on 1/4/19 you'll be banned for metagrudging, metacomms and probably whatever other rule infractions you incur along the way.

Also as a forum administrator, I'm going to warn you that you're treading very closely along rule 1:

1. No spam. (Contentless posts, repeated posts, off topic posts)
IE: when you post: think: "what will this post bring to the conversation".
Posts only designed to antagonize or otherwise escalate the situation are generally considered spam. Try to be civil about your grievances

(Emphasis mine)

It's fine to complain about a perceived problem, but at the point when you're just trying to stir up drama over it it's a waste of your time and everyone else in the thread to engage in it.

Organizing a single admin to cover 2 hours a day, assuming they were all available and willing to work 7 days a week without interruption, would take 48 admins by itself to cover all 4 servers. This would be with a single admin per server, which is generally speaking not workable when you're looking at high pop. Realistically you'd need more then double that number just to have a reasonable rota that doesn't require people to log on every day. And this is even assuming you could find good administrative candidates correctly splayed out throughout the timezones who could even make such a iron-shod commitment to a game . The idea that you are ever going to have 24/7 coverage is frankly a pipe dream.

It's regrettable whenever we have periods that don't have administrative coverage, but this is frankly inevitable, not the least because our playerbase (and thus pool of prospective admins) is not equally spread around the whole globe.

Re: 80+ admins yet there arent enough for 2/3 of the day

PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 8:57 pm
by confused rock
think we'd have 2 admins tops if they were obligated to admin whenever physically capable

Re: 80+ admins yet there arent enough for 2/3 of the day

PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 9:27 pm
by Ayy Lemoh
Arianya wrote:Then on 1/4/19 you'll be banned for metagrudging, metacomms and probably whatever other rule infractions you incur along the way.

Also as a forum administrator, I'm going to warn you that you're treading very closely along rule 1"

I'm pretty sure that was a joke, Arianya. Not him legitimately saying that he's going to get the boys back together, hand them guns at roundstart, and start mowing down that shitbag griefer plus his posse who bullied him back at space highschool

I don't think his ic gang would involve metacomming anyways if it is actually IC. I can see metagrudge, metagaming, and metafriending (lol) at most however I am sure an IC squad would not include ghost support to monitor all the ghost roles. Remove his post since it is a joke and not policy discussion if you see it that way. After that, delete our posts next. Don't go "listen here buddy you're completely surrounded don't you dare make a move" since it just makes you look a bit petty imo.

edit: then delete mine if you do that
edit 2: seemed a bit too hostile. gonna tone it down.

Re: 80+ admins yet there arent enough for 2/3 of the day

PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 9:43 pm
by oranges
karp with all due respect we have never had enough aussie mins, because the majority of the admin team lives in the states and only hires people they know

Re: 80+ admins yet there arent enough for 2/3 of the day

PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 10:32 pm
by TheMythicGhost
Given that a bit of accountability seems out of the window, an alternative would be a board for collecting potentially missed issues/griefing. The requirements could be deliberated on by administration, but a hard requirement of it should be that there were no admins online at the time of the posting, and support could not be contacted during the round the issue occurred (this would be easy to verify with the logs even from a cursory glance). Something to cover 'dead-zone' hours, and could be investigated at any point.

Say we have someone that had been investigated and determined to have been at fault for something, and the admin wanted to contact them, perhaps some form of notification when they next log in to any of the servers to get in touch with administration, or something? I'm not trying to make this a witch-hunt, or witch-trial thread, and I'm not asking for the ban requests thread to be reopened as this, but it should be at least a bit understandable the frustration with seeing griefing go unpunished when there isn't admins on and support is not able to be reached, and having no place to list reports of these issues.

Re: 80+ admins yet there arent enough for 2/3 of the day

PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 11:26 pm
by Karp
Image

it already exists and we already do that

*EDIT* if someone maliciously disconnects after we're investigating and things seem charged against them they're likely to get a punishment instead of a warning unless they've only done harmless things

Re: 80+ admins yet there arent enough for 2/3 of the day

PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 11:29 pm
by TheMythicGhost
Karp wrote:Image

it already exists and we already do that


Okay, and the other portion?

Re: 80+ admins yet there arent enough for 2/3 of the day

PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 11:31 pm
by Karp
database tickets are coming soon™ and will allow admins to solve unanswered tickets from rounds there are no admins in

(soon means who knows)

Re: 80+ admins yet there arent enough for 2/3 of the day

PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 12:13 am
by ThanatosRa
You need.Americans on my schedule

I work 1-10pm pt. So im usually up til like 4am
So find an alternate version of me that plays more and you're set.


I domt play enough to be qualified.

Re: 80+ admins yet there arent enough for 2/3 of the day

PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 1:40 am
by subject217
oranges wrote:karp with all due respect we have never had enough aussie mins, because the majority of the admin team lives in the states and only hires people they know

This isn't the reason though, it's a bias you've perceived. There are not enough australian players who are suitable to be admins. That's all there is to it. Otherwise I would jump at the chance to fill the most empty time slot.

Re: 80+ admins yet there arent enough for 2/3 of the day

PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 2:35 am
by D&B
Bold of you to assume admins are promoted to fill timezones and not just because they're nice to have around

Re: 80+ admins yet there arent enough for 2/3 of the day

PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 2:42 am
by PKPenguin321
This is less of a policy discussion and more of a general discussion on the state of admin hour coverage, so I'll be moving it to General Chat

Re: 80+ admins yet there arent enough for 2/3 of the day

PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 2:57 am
by elyina
If only we had some kind of system to report incidents of serious grief when there aren't admins available...

Re: 80+ admins yet there arent enough for 2/3 of the day

PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 3:18 am
by oranges
subject217 wrote:
oranges wrote:karp with all due respect we have never had enough aussie mins, because the majority of the admin team lives in the states and only hires people they know

This isn't the reason though, it's a bias you've perceived. There are not enough australian players who are suitable to be admins. That's all there is to it. Otherwise I would jump at the chance to fill the most empty time slot.

bias :roll:

Re: 80+ admins yet there arent enough for 2/3 of the day

PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 3:21 am
by Karp
subject217 wrote:
oranges wrote:karp with all due respect we have never had enough aussie mins, because the majority of the admin team lives in the states and only hires people they know

This isn't the reason though, it's a bias you've perceived. There are not enough australian players who are suitable to be admins. That's all there is to it. Otherwise I would jump at the chance to fill the most empty time slot.


tbh i flat out don't think we have enough australians or new zealanders anyways, of the ones I know I think I can count them all on one hand and we already have two on the admin team

I'd love to have more aussies or new zealanders but they don't really exist, and if they do they have fundamental issues with them like subject said which makes them unsuitable admins.

elyina wrote:If only we had some kind of system to report incidents of serious grief when there aren't admins available...


You know as well as I do that ban request was used more as a tool for petty revenge even when there was an admin on to try to get someone punished when you disagreed with an admin ruling, it was purely full of spite and "Oh he did x which slightly crossed the line as a mistake after scrutinizing their every move for a week meaning we have to punish him!", that also ignores the fact that it forces people to make forums accounts to defend themselves or risk getting banned.

Like it or hate it kor's "When the round ends let things reset" mentality is better than the pandora's box of ban requests and resulting grudge audits. Mass grief and shittery when admins are not on if reported to an admin generally gets it punished which nullifies the purpose of ban requests being a solution while conflicts generally are simply a case of "Shit happens" and even if someone minorly overescalated and made a minor warning worthy decision encouraging taking things in stride is far better than encouraging vendettas between players

Re: 80+ admins yet there arent enough for 2/3 of the day

PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 3:23 am
by Karp
real talk though back when we had admin rank pings on discord I consistently responded to pings of grief and in like 3-6 months of doing it around lowpop I don't think I've ever been called onto the server for genuine mass grief, it's almost always IC issues or someone asking for a tc trade which really makes me doubt the mentality that lowpop is grief city when admins aren't online

Re: 80+ admins yet there arent enough for 2/3 of the day

PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 5:32 am
by Qbopper
oranges wrote:
subject217 wrote:
oranges wrote:karp with all due respect we have never had enough aussie mins, because the majority of the admin team lives in the states and only hires people they know

This isn't the reason though, it's a bias you've perceived. There are not enough australian players who are suitable to be admins. That's all there is to it. Otherwise I would jump at the chance to fill the most empty time slot.

bias :roll:


even if oranges isn't actually going into detail i think he has a point here

you say there are not enough good aussies who deserve admin but if we aren't on during aussie times and don't know enough aussie players how the fuck could we possibly know that

Re: 80+ admins yet there arent enough for 2/3 of the day

PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 5:39 am
by Ayy Lemoh
Qbopper wrote:even if oranges isn't actually going into detail i think he has a point here

you say there are not enough good aussies who deserve admin but if we aren't on during aussie times and don't know enough aussie players how the fuck could we possibly know that

They just do, Qbopper. They just do.

Re: 80+ admins yet there arent enough for 2/3 of the day

PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 9:18 am
by Karp
Qbopper wrote:
oranges wrote:
subject217 wrote:
oranges wrote:karp with all due respect we have never had enough aussie mins, because the majority of the admin team lives in the states and only hires people they know

This isn't the reason though, it's a bias you've perceived. There are not enough australian players who are suitable to be admins. That's all there is to it. Otherwise I would jump at the chance to fill the most empty time slot.

bias :roll:


even if oranges isn't actually going into detail i think he has a point here

you say there are not enough good aussies who deserve admin but if we aren't on during aussie times and don't know enough aussie players how the fuck could we possibly know that


Karp wrote:I forgot where kor said it but we've continually and consistently had an issue with a lack of administration on lowpop for 11+ years and "just get more lowpop admins" has not worked as a solution that entire time

it's not an issue we can solve with "lol just admin more people" because people will eventually get burnt out or their life schedules will move around so they cant fill the timeslot, it's just an awkward as fuck timezone to fill that's at the perfect intersection of bad time for everyone


I've suggested plenty of people who would be good at that timezone but even if they'd get adminned the bigger issue with admins is with their consistency: admin activity can fluctuate, schedules will change, and admins get bored and take breaks which ties into my
"We've continually and consistently had an issue with a lack of administration on lowpop for 11+ years and "just get more lowpop admins" has not worked as a solution that entire time"

It was easier in the past as Ausops was in the aus/nz region as a headmin and even then we had admin shortages during that time even with kevinz, ausops, oranges, and occasionally me being active around then. It ties back into the whole "Just get more lowpop/Australian admins" does not work and will never work as a true solution. This isn't a mutually exclusive issue with lowpop though as you might think, as we've had issues where we can go dry of admins on highpop bagil as well at periods and its just a case of admins getting tired of adminning or changing habits/schedules up. Adminning people in the region is a temporary initial solution and even then admin activity can shift very quickly and unfortunately lowpop is far more sensitive to a single active admin disappearing than highpop is. The price to pay to enjoy lowpop is consistently having less admin oversight.

We've also had plenty of americans and euros who can hop on a few times a week during late nights or have night schedules like steveo as admin trainers and headmins and even then the issue still existed so it isn't just a limited scope view, this is an issue that has plagued the headmins and trainers for years and still hasn't been solved to this day

or you know maybe my insight is wrong and 11+ years of every ss13 server trying to solve this issue is wrong and im a dumb poopy head conspiring with the headmins to starve tgstation of admins so that griefers reign supreme

Maybe I should've argued the actual issue which is "Why do admins change activity and playtime so frequently?" and your answer is *EDIT*:CENSORED PENDING HEADMIN APPROVAL

Re: 80+ admins yet there arent enough for 2/3 of the day

PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 10:46 am
by Rustledjimm
Let's start an australian server and call it ozzy