New antagonist policy - repealed

[Zsword]

Bottom post of the previous page:

Um, I'd like to put in my experience with murderboning.

1: Generally any time I die to someone from a gun/bow/sword in such a way that I can't even type 'say; help' (Especially with most forms of assault interrupting your radio transmissions.) I feel... disappointed. A little frustrated, salty, if you will.

2: This salt turns into raw anger if I learn the person who did it, did it for no reason. (Either an Ahelp or round end objectives listing.) No reason being: I have no association with the target in any real way. I understand if I'm chilling in the escape arm, and I get pewpewed by a guy with escape alone. If I Ahelp it and it's valid (for whatever reason), I just take a deep breath and grab a munchy, maybe play something else if I'm still 'fired up'.

3: I get outright infuriated if the person who killed me went out of his way to make sure the only way I can return to the round is either as a drone or as an event, aka: Permanent disposal of the corpse, either by spacing, or the various forms of gibbing. Valid or not, that could easily mean 50 minutes of me not being in the game.

4: I don't find myself all that bothered if I'm killed from more creative means, an Emagged Medibot, invisible toxic gases from Atmos, heck, even releasing the singu and me getting caught in it is a 'minor' offense, such slow, deliberate methods of murder are avoidable, and at least feel (Mostly) unique, deaths, deaths that make me go 'Wow, I can't believe he managed to set that up.'

4 addendum: Exception being One HUmaning the AI and telling it to kill non humans. (Corporate/Paladin AIs ftw...) There might be some bias here as I am practically a professional robotocist, but a one humaned AI is just as bad as an Emah/Esword on my rage inducer.

What's the point I'm getting at? None really, just a community member stating his opinions on when being Antagonized stops being fun.

[Phalanx300]

I'll summarize what really happened:

>Scaredy says he wants to put admins in place to administrate and keep the server and the /tg/ spirit alive
>Scaredy works and barely pays attention to the server besides keeping it running awesome as fuck and better than pretty much any server out there, really great and free updates to support our bolstering community
>Administration drama (mostly because scaredy isn't around), they prove ineffective at keeping /tg/ sane and using rule 0 to weed out shitters, a lot of bad apple admins intentionally don't enforce rules and policies like the ones for powergaming we've had forever to turn the server into a shitty nox 2.0 garbo fest
>SoS quits his job, steps in to help the administration by making new policy changes, getting new headmins, etc
>People say he is making SWEEPING CHANGES to 'legislation' even though these policies on powergaming and not being a dick to ruin people's fun have ALWAYS BEEN FUCKING RULES

Really though you can leave if you don't like it, your boogyman conspiracy theories about how SoS is ruining the server are fucking laughable and you need to go anyway.



BTFO
T
F
O

If we give him Sudentenland now he will be taking Poland tomorrow.

[Spacemanspark]

I love how people are saying this is worse than NoX, considering this rule is literally supposed to keep us from becoming it. I agree whole heatedly with everything Paprika stated.
If you want /tg/station without these rules, go play on Hippie station.
Oh, wait, that actually IS NoX 2.0.

[Alex Crimson]

I love how people are saying this is worse than NoX, considering this rule is literally supposed to keep us from becoming it. I agree whole heatedly with everything Paprika stated.
If you want /tg/station without these rules, go play on Hippie station.
Oh, wait, that actually IS NoX 2.0.

Worse than NoX in the sense that atleast NoX never used to ban things against the wishes of the community.

[Spacemanspark]

I love how people are saying this is worse than NoX, considering this rule is literally supposed to keep us from becoming it. I agree whole heatedly with everything Paprika stated.
If you want /tg/station without these rules, go play on Hippie station.
Oh, wait, that actually IS NoX 2.0.

Worse than NoX in the sense that atleast NoX never used to ban things against the wishes of the community.

Ah, I see. Well, this certainly seems familiar...
Well, I can still say I agree with the new rules, at the very least.

[Phalanx300]

I love how people are saying this is worse than NoX, considering this rule is literally supposed to keep us from becoming it. I agree whole heatedly with everything Paprika stated.
If you want /tg/station without these rules, go play on Hippie station.
Oh, wait, that actually IS NoX 2.0.

Worse than NoX in the sense that atleast NoX never used to ban things against the wishes of the community.

Ah, I see. Well, this certainly seems familiar...
Well, I can still say I agree with the new rules, at the very least.

So how does it feel to be part of the minority?

[Jimthebob123]

The whole
"go play on another server argument" is dumb
if the tables were reversed anyone saying "go play on hippe station" wouldnt like the people against the new policy going
"go play on bay"

[Saegrimr]

The whole
"go play on another server argument" is dumb
if the tables were reversed anyone saying "go play on hippe station" wouldnt like the people against the new policy going
"go play on bay"

Can always give Yogstation a try, lel.
https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2284

[Bolien]

Well this should make for some fun to read ban appeals.

[Sum Ting Wong]

>People say he is making SWEEPING CHANGES to 'legislation' even though these policies on powergaming and not being a dick to ruin people's fun have ALWAYS BEEN FUCKING RULES

So now we have a restrictive new policy for... no reason?

We're not talking just about the rules here. This changed the way the game is played on a fundamental level. Code was changed overnight to prevent player conflicts with the new policy.
>conspiracy theories
This was actually talked about on /tg/ when TLE was shutting down the server. The reasons why they made this agreement, and why this was such a big deal at the time, can be found in the /tg/ section of archive.moe if you want to dig through that.

Really though you can leave if you don't like it

That's certainly an opinion.

[walket]

Even worse is the varied responses that we have been getting. So are the admins not on the same page or are their responses in this thread just damage control? If its the former, why would you enact a policy without having a unified stance on it? If its the latter, then its only gonna fool people for so long.

You can enforce a policy without actually agreeing with it.

I think you misunderstand me. I have full faith that the admins here will enforce the policy. My concern is how they are going to enforce the policy. Because we've heard this:

Some murders are okay if youre trying to gimmick

Then this:

I was a traitor doctor a couple of rounds ago and my target wandered into medbay, so I did the decent thing and killed him, then hid his body. Afterwards I thought I might work on sabotaging the medical treatment of the station: basically, taking advantage of injured people's state and making them 'disappear' with classic traitor tools like emagged medbots and a radioactive health scanner. Just trying to make the round interesting, harder for everyone else, the sort of stuff that would have made sense previous to this policy change.

Now, however, I wasn't sure. So I adminhelped it just to check and go the response "I'd rather you didn't just murder people for no reason".

This:

Tldr; I want to stress that this policy is only targetted towards a very few worst offenders. Most players playstyles will be unaffected by this. This does not explicitly ban antag murders, random or not, it vans only excessive murderboners by antagonists who try to go for an imagined "high score of kills".

And this:

My personal interpretation? Unless you've managed to kill 2/3rd of the station's population and STILL haven't completed your objectives, I probably won't even take a second glance. Even THEN, worst you'll probably get from me is a note.

E: [10:18pm] <Vekter> My interpretation is still that I'm probably never going to apply one of these bans unless someone does something like gets antag, with notes, and murders 2/3rd of the station without even trying to get their objective.
[10:18pm] <~scaredofshadows> pretty much exactly that

But then this:

Who precisely are we referring to? I was an antag two nights ago and got warned for polyacid+plasma+lube smoking the shuttle. Double Agent, specifically.

The words are not matching the actions. And the words are pretty vague. From the limited (I understand that they are limited) examples we've seen, it isn't being applied like we are being told. But then again, its so vague who knows?

And I understand that defining a line means some people are going to right up to the edge, but right now people are scared to even come close to a normal playstyle because the line is so vague.

And as a side note if this is true:

The issue is that the server belongs to SoS, so SoS can rightfully make any decision he wants regardless of any discussion that takes place. If the points presented in this thread fail to change his mind, I fail to see what other discussions will.

This is a toxic line of thought. You're basically saying it's not worth discussing because you assume Scaredy won't listen to anyone's concerns.

Then how fucking toxic is this line of thought?

Really though you can leave if you don't like it, your boogyman conspiracy theories about how SoS is ruining the server are fucking laughable and you need to go anyway.

BTFO
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F
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Especially since this discussion has been pretty civil (except in a few cases) and has led to some good points being raised.

Based on how many people care and are willing to discuss this calmly at length, a policy of "leave if you don't like it" seems counterproductive and immature, especially for an administrator of this server.

Sorry about the fuck ton of quotes, trying to prove a point.

[oranges]

It's some good oints

[Saegrimr]

They are good points, and the best thing I can tell you is just play how you'd play normally.
If you cross the line, you'll be told about it. If you're one of the people that repeatedly cross the line despite warnings THEN you'll be removed. This is why the rule exists.

This isn't like the IC/OOC divide where its extremely clear-cut and easy to follow, thus getting 15 minute bans instantly. Or tieing someone up to emote your dick at them.

I'm one of the people on board for better roleplay and less murderhobo, but even I wouldn't straight up ban someone without a warning for this unless you were pulling some Dante Smith level shit of get hulk -> get hyperzine -> grab biohood/hardsuit helmet -> ebow/sword everybody in the halls one by one.

[Aleph]

They are good points, and the best thing I can tell you is just play how you'd play normally.
If you cross the line, you'll be told about it. If you're one of the people that repeatedly cross the line despite warnings THEN you'll be removed. This is why the rule exists.

This isn't like the IC/OOC divide where its extremely clear-cut and easy to follow, thus getting 15 minute bans instantly. Or tieing someone up to emote your dick at them.

I'm one of the people on board for better roleplay and less murderhobo, but even I wouldn't straight up ban someone without a warning for this unless you were pulling some Dante Smith level shit of get hulk -> get hyperzine -> grab biohood/hardsuit helmet -> ebow/sword everybody in the halls one by one.

It just seems that some admins want to go the route of 'lol u killed me, better revenge ban'.

[Saegrimr]

It just seems that some admins want to go the route of 'lol u killed me, better revenge ban'.

Admins shouldn't be handling situations they're personally involved in, for these very reasons, which is why we ahelp and make ban requests about things just like everybody else while playing.
https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=1963
https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=1924

[Aleph]

It just seems that some admins want to go the route of 'lol u killed me, better revenge ban'.

Admins shouldn't be handling situations they're personally involved in, for these very reasons, which is why we ahelp and make ban requests about things just like everybody else while playing.
https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=1963
https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=1924

But the problem is some admins appear to have a huge problem with collateral damage, like if I polyacided the shuttle to kill my hunter during doubleagent it would get a bwoink.

[Saegrimr]

But the problem is some admins appear to have a huge problem with collateral damage, like if I polyacided the shuttle to kill my hunter during doubleagent it would get a bwoink.

This is partially why DA is so much shittier than regular traitors.
Its twice as many traitors with the same mindset of "I know theres a guy after me, but I don't know who, so I have to kill literally everybody to make sure I got him"

[scaredofshadows]

We had an example of this policy being applied today.

A traitor with objectives to assassinate an atmos tech and escape alive spent the round cremating people who were not their target. The victims weren't rushing to the chapel to stop the cremations, they were simply running around in the halls and getting snatched. After about 10+ cremations, I adminPMed the player and asked them to stop cremating people. No bans of any type were applied.

How are we providing a better game experience if we had allowed someone to wordlessly snatch dozens of people out of the halls who were not their targets and cremate them just for the hell of it?

[Amelius]

We had an example of this policy being applied today.

A traitor with objectives to assassinate an atmos tech and escape alive spent the round cremating people who were not their target. The victims weren't rushing to the chapel to stop the cremations, they were simply running around in the halls and getting snatched. After about 10+ cremations, I adminPMed the player and asked them to stop cremating people. No bans of any type were applied.

How are we providing a better game experience if we had allowed someone to wordlessly snatch dozens of people out of the halls who were not their targets and cremate them just for the hell of it?

There's a difference between asking someone to do something, like we did in the past (for instance, arrivals camping does not net an instaban, it just nets a 'hey, mind not camping arrivals'?), and holding the threat of a ban over our heads for doing whatever admins deem to be against the new policy.

The biggest problem is that there's no consistency between admins in terms of the interpretation of this policy, as others have stated. Bannable activities range from (depending on admin) effectively 'going outside of greentexting and killing people', to 'killing 2/3rds of the station and spamming shuttle recall (which would fall under rule 1 anyway)'. Until there's a resolute conclusion as to how the policy works, and unto what range of activities it should cover, this policy cannot be implemented effectively in the slightest. People will be afraid of doing something which may be inside or outside the scope of the policy, and, as a direct result, rounds will become monotonous.

Yes, I am aware you are afraid of drawing concrete lines, but there must be some degree of guideline as to what are acceptable activites, and what are not. Discussion about this policy cannot progress in any direction until that is stomped out in the first place.

Regardless, the cited example would fall under rule 1 anyway, so I do not see why we require an additional policy covering it. (And even if it didn't, a bwoink asking them to not incinerate people / let the shuttle come (though in the latter case, admins can always set the shuttle arrival time, obstensibly), regardless upon on the threat of a ban or not would solve it in 99% of all cases).

[Steelpoint]

I think what must happen is that a admin must only first ask someone who someone to stop or tone down their actions.

Never ban, threaten to ban or apply a warning note the first time around.

[ShadowDimentio]

How are we providing a better game experience if we had allowed someone to wordlessly snatch dozens of people out of the halls who were not their targets and cremate them just for the hell of it?

SS13 is supposed to have some element of paranoia to it, and having 10 people randomly go missing because Traitor Mc Whoever is quietly snatching people and killing them is a gold plated example of a traitor doing a good job.

Already, this rule has a /MASSIVE/ amount of personal bias mixed in, and it's only the /first days/ of the ruling.

We aren't Bay. Antags are /supposed/ to relish the time they have as an antag, since for most people getting antag and being able to run around and do whatever horrible gimmick they want is pretty much the whole joy of the experience. /Nobody/ rolls for antag and thinks "Wowee, I sure do hope that I get traitor so that I can steal a /container of fucking plasma/ and then hide in a locker until the shuttle arrives, that'd be awesome fun!"-- /nobody/ says shit like that. People want to use antag as a launchboard to run around and do the crazy shit they've always dreamed of on normal shifts but couldn't.

A good antag is one that runs around and destroys the station in a new and fun way (see also: xenobio, kudzu, R&D, borg takeover, and so many more). A bad antag is one that just goes for his objective in the most boring way possible (see also: para-C4), not causing any excitement and getting their precious greentext. A /terrible/ antag is one that murderbones, but doesn't add in any flair whatsoever (see also: para-C4, ebow esword, bomb spam, setting the station on fire).

If you want to cut down on boring traitors, that's fine. More power to you. But stay the /fuck/ away from fun destruction.

[cedarbridge]

SS13 is supposed to have some element of paranoia

If a traitor ebows you in maint and you never yell out on the radio, will anyone seriously care? That's not paranoia. "Paranoia" is a buzzword that gets carted out every now and then without context or definition.

[Steelpoint]

As someone aptly pointed out, asking traitors to be "creative" in their killings is a tall order because the game offers very few, if any, ways to creatively kill people in a reasonable fashion.

The concern I've raised in game on this ruling is that this rule will discourage antagonists to kill people en mass and result in stagnate rounds where nothing happens, this is already a problem we are suffering from but it will only be exacerbated as a result of this rule.

Not only do I think this whole situation has been handled poorly, but it's been done unneededly. If all SoS wanted to do was to ask repeat offenders who mass kill the station to stop, and maybe temp ban them if they don't listen, he could just have either worded the rule more effectively or just ask the admins to do just that.

[Bombadil]

Hell instead of shuttles being called for mass murder its called because admins are constantly shitting up games with terrible somewhat-creative events that kill tons of people in non-extended.

[Pybro]

To be fair on that last point it IS Christmas time, so Adkins may just be eventing it up for the holiday season. If they are not however and are doing events specifically because no one is doing anything, then yeah, this policy is a bust.

[Reimoo]

SS13 is supposed to have some element of paranoia

If a traitor ebows you in maint and you never yell out on the radio, will anyone seriously care? That's not paranoia. "Paranoia" is a buzzword that gets carted out every now and then without context or definition.

He has a point with this one, murder is only effective at creating paranoia if it's very obvious to the rest of the crew what happened - nobody cares about mysterious disappearances. Unfortunately for SS13, unlike other murder mystery games, leaving bodies where they fell almost guarantees your victim will come back from the dead via cloning and immediately go to security to rat on you. So the standard routine is to space the body after you're done - basically eliminating most if not all possible evidence. Blood trails simply don't do their job at hinting murder either because they're damn everywhere. But I digress. Silent murderboning simply isn't effective in creating paranoia.

[Sum Ting Wong]

A serial killer on the loose doesn't inspire paranoia?

[kosmos]

The concern I've raised in game on this ruling is that this rule will discourage antagonists to kill people en mass and result in stagnate rounds where nothing happens, this is already a problem we are suffering from but it will only be exacerbated as a result of this rule.

Not only do I think this whole situation has been handled poorly, but it's been done unneededly. If all SoS wanted to do was to ask repeat offenders who mass kill the station to stop, and maybe temp ban them if they don't listen, he could just have either worded the rule more effectively or just ask the admins to do just that.

Couldn't agree more.

Also, someone before said that this rule already existed, now it's only been written down, couldn't we have just altered the Rule 3 a little to accomplish the same thing?

3. This is a roleplaying game. The purpose of the game is to have fun roleplaying. Being an asshole, who ruins other player’s roleplay experience, just to win, is considered a ‘play-to-win’ style of playing. You can and will be banned for this playstyle. Be considerate of other players’ experience.

• Randomly murdering people is generally considered to be ruining someone’s fun and poor form in roleplay. If you don’t have a solid IC reason for murder, you may be removed. Trying to justify it with ‘My character is so random/insane’ is not tolerated.

If someone would just add "even as an antag" there, it would serve the same purpose, if this problem stems from the fact that people murderboned and then yelled "it's not written in the rules"? As Steelpoint stated, all this new policy does is create overreacting --> too hazardous antags --> stagnant rounds.

[paprika]

If traitor rounds or changeling rounds create stagnant rounds perhaps their objectives need to be adjusted, if a gamemode does not spiral out of control by an hour or so on sybil then it's the fault of the game mode.

Also, stagnant? Maybe try roleplaying or doing something unique instead of hunting antags?

[Incomptinence]

The game really should have more viable lethal or incapacitating options if we want more creativity, jobs like virology and the entire service department are left behind and cargo bay is basically order someone else's murder weapon then act like them. Then the engineering department gets more and more lethality heaped on because making space, fires and the singularity deadlier is more exciting than making poisonous mushrooms deadly, hell it gets harder to apply the poison with creativity constraining protections against force feeding. I remember someone bleeding to death from paper-cutting them self as a clown under a failed baymed port, sounded like the exact sort of stuff we need more of.

I'm just going to keep antag roles off for myself, pretty much just turned it back on to just get disappointed by viruses again. Someone worse can take up the mantle, I suggest any decent player who is against this do the same.

[ExplosiveCrate]

A serial killer on the loose doesn't inspire paranoia?

When everyone assumes that they victims hid themselves in a disposals unit because they had to log out at some point, nope.

[Amelius]

I'm just going to keep antag roles off for myself, pretty much just turned it back on to just get disappointed by viruses again. Someone worse can take up the mantle, I suggest any decent player who is against this do the same.

Are you sure you've mastered virology? The last time I released three different remuxed hilariously robust viruses, I had the entire station dying / dead of cancer and maulus from vomiting while I zipped around with my triple-stack of filter/comp/even/stims/resp. All at around 20-25 minutes~ in. I even had one fully stealthed virus (couldn't see in the PANDEMIC) just for shits one time I did that.

Virology is ridiculously robust if you're fast, know what you're doing, and are competent. I've reached the point where I can nail out my triple-stack of buffs in 10-13 minutes flat and finish my job in entirety, consistently.

Edit: Agreements on the rest of the service department, however. The recent changes to hunger may inspire the some Chef-styled sabotage.

[Incomptinence]

Cancer? Maulus? I'm sorry I don't believe we have those symptoms here.

[Amelius]

Cancer? Maulus? I'm sorry I don't believe we have those symptoms here.

Cancer was a general catch-all term for 'horrific disease that has a triple stack of blood vomiting, plain vomiting on one, necro on one, and hyphema on all'. Or something to that degree. I mix it up too much to know the exact symptoms, but it's really easy to mux a virus if you lay everything out like a spice rack. Essentially, everyone quickly turns into blind, shambling zombies that are continuously taking damage and stuns, whlie being stuck on a nutrient deficiency due to vomiting (slowing everyone to a crawl). The typical chaos that ensues when most of the crew are parapalegic undead wrecks with opportunistic traitors/lings/etc. doing things and the infected crew panicking for a cure (of which there are three unique ones requiring difficult-to-find ingredients). And, of course, I dismantle the PANDEMIC afterward and space the board.

You can do literally anything you want and no one can stop you for a good 15-20 minutes, at least, and even then most of the crew will be dead or blind. They have to cure all 3 to stop themselves from going blind - it's simply not possible within the time limit that they have. If you want, you could waltz into the gravgen and knock it out, start plasma flooding (ultra deadly since people can't see what's ahead of them).

It's a load of fun. I highly recommend it if you can into virology.

[Grazyn]

If traitor rounds or changeling rounds create stagnant rounds perhaps their objectives need to be adjusted, if a gamemode does not spiral out of control by an hour or so on sybil then it's the fault of the game mode.

Also, stagnant? Maybe try roleplaying or doing something unique instead of hunting antags?

As it is now, the only objective that should guarantee some chaos is escape alone.
The issue with the new policy is that, I'm quoting you here:

having an objective directly geared towards murderboning, even if it is just an excuse, might not be a good thing.

We could add some objectives that don't require murderboning but are meant to create at least a bit of chaos, for example:
detonate a bomb on the station, release the singularity, make sure that 80% of the crew is infected with a virus when the shuttle docks, and so on

[lumipharon]

Making only three viruses is unrobust. Last time I released a plague, I had 24 different strains. The idea being, that there is 4-5 cures for all of the viruses, however since you only have three at a time, you can only CURE three at a time, then you'll catch some of the OTHER 24 from people that were infected with different viruses from you. So everyone runs to chemistry for cures, and will just keep getting new viruses from the rest of the mob. Honk.

You need a reasonable number of plague monkeys to set it all loose to start with though, but the 5 you get in viro means 15 strains right there.

[Phalanx300]

We had an example of this policy being applied today.

A traitor with objectives to assassinate an atmos tech and escape alive spent the round cremating people who were not their target. The victims weren't rushing to the chapel to stop the cremations, they were simply running around in the halls and getting snatched. After about 10+ cremations, I adminPMed the player and asked them to stop cremating people. No bans of any type were applied.

How are we providing a better game experience if we had allowed someone to wordlessly snatch dozens of people out of the halls who were not their targets and cremate them just for the hell of it?

Why even call it a game if you intend to dictate, without any consult, that people are forced to play how YOU want it?

[Alex Crimson]

Why even have a Sec force anymore? Seeing as the admins have taken it upon themselves to deal with murders. Im sure the game will be a much nicer place when antags are only allowed to do the bare minimum to fulfill their objectives, and are forced to conform to SoS and his imaginary vision of how the server should run.

[AnonymousNow]

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/slippery-slope

[Hornygranny]

This is a slope. It's covered in space lube.

[cedarbridge]

Why even have a Sec force anymore? Seeing as the admins have taken it upon themselves to deal with murders. Im sure the game will be a much nicer place when antags are only allowed to do the bare minimum to fulfill their objectives, and are forced to conform to SoS and his imaginary vision of how the server should run.

You can stop strawmanning the "traitors aren't allowed to murder now" gimmick. People can only point out you're wrong so many times before its gets tired.

[Alex Crimson]

I literally never said traitors are not allowed to murder. If you intend to paint me as someone starting shit then atleast do it right.

[scaredofshadows]

We'll be having a townhall meeting on Friday, December 19th at 6pm EST. Venue is still being sorted out.

[legality]

This is okay imo, depending on how it's enforced.

It doesn't really need its own rule, I think. Maybe make it an addendum to the "don't be a dick" rule. I remember pushing for something of this sort back in 2012, when it was really bad, and all the other admins looked at me weird. How the times have changed.

[AnonymousNow]

A note for archival reasons...

THIS POST AND EVERY POST BELOW IT WAS POSTED AFTER THE POLICY WAS REPEALED.

Right, well, there goes the neighbourhood. I foresee a massive springback with worse-than-goon gameplay over the coming week or so as people who were never going to have their style of gameplay touched by the policy bone their hardest, but there is hope.

And that hope is that an alternative is set up. Something like a little addendum, a specific note to point out that deliberately anti-social, powergamey, kill-counting behaviour will get you out by the ear and on your arse. A little extension to rule 1. That's all.

[scaredofshadows]

deliberately anti-social, powergamey, kill-counting behaviour will get you out by the ear and on your arse. A little extension to rule 1. That's all.

That was exactly the wording and intent of this policy.

[paprika]

This policy wouldn't have ever needed to exist if there wasn't a serious lack of communication at an administrative level in the past about rule 1 applying to antags. The core playerbase of /tg/ disliking a policy which has more or less always existed means that the administration is at fault for not enforcing it in the past or currently.

[AnonymousNow]

That was exactly the wording and intent of this policy.

Look, Scaredy, the intention is good and it needs to come back in some form. No matter how you word it, there will absolutely ALWAYS be people who will think (or will pretend to think, and drum up such a message for the purposes of opposing it) that it's an anti-killing policy, and will whine and moan until the cows come home. But the idea of stopping those specific people who are out just to wreck the game for others instead of doing something bloody interesting with their antag licence is a noble one.

[Fragnostic]

-snip!-

This. Nyvrem would actually roll traitor or any antag if possible and says flat out that they blatantly ignore objectives and just have fun as a traitor being their real objective. This is the kind of behaviour that ruins gamemodes. People getting antag and deciding to do fuckall and not even glance at their objectives. This is the reason cult, rev, nuke and other gamemodes just don't work. Not even five minutes into the round and
[Common][145.9]Urist McBoatmurdered exclaims,"HELP! X has double esword! CHAPEL!"
Cultists getting caught early because someone spawned robes and started slashing people, then snitched.
Revs killing people instead of converting.
Nuke ops going solo because Comandoe xDDD.

To me, this is breaking rule 1 because it spoils the gamemode destroys the preparation for other antags that might be trying to run a gimmick or formulate a plan to complete objective seamlessly.

[oranges]

All of these people could've been talked to under Rule 1 anyway - the rule definitely clarified and helped set some tone for what we expected, but I think it was mishandled on launch.

I think it makes more sense to make a policy of needless muderbone being bannable then apply rule 1 to enforce it.

[Wyzack]

Wait frag, did you really just try to argue that greentexting as a traitor is more important than making a fun round? Do you realize how anti fun that is? Obviously the same does not apply for team based antags, but i have literally never seen someone present that argument for traitor/ling objectives so bald-faced before. I will take the gimmick murder traitor over the magboots>kill time/hide>greentext traitor any day.