/tg/Station 13

Let me start by taking a nice big swig of my monster ultra, and say that if there's one thing I hate the most in SS13, it's assistant mains.

Honestly. Why do it? All I ever see them do is run around, hack their way into everything, grab as much powergamer loot as possible, bait people into escalating conflict with them, validhunt, make security's life hell, and overall contribute nothing to a round. They're always the most experienced players, too. Generally speaking, the most robust and knowledgeable players tend to waste it away playing as a literal nothing role in a quest to get as much gamer gear as possible. Why bother? Is it the lack of responsibility? Is it the relaxed escalation compared to if you had picked a redshirt or command role? Is it because you think you're playing "hardmode" when maintenance is full of so much free shit that you wind up running around with impunity 10 minutes in? Is it because you didn't roll antag but still want to be a dickwaffle to everyone? What's the appeal?

Meanwhile, those same experienced players will then complain about low quality security and command staff day in and day out, while they run around with insuls soap and toolbelts specifically making it difficult for these lesser experienced players to acclimate to their roles. This is probably the worst part. You're a veteran player with knowledge of most if not almost all of the game's mechanics and are quite robust, yet instead of using that experience to positively influence a round you're in and set an example for less experienced players, you go out of your way to make the experience worse overall. It's been happening for so many years I don't even remember when it started, and it's always annoyed me.

If you have 1k+ hours and you're flagged to assistant or assistant+(curator, janitor, etc) stop. Maybe consider flagging some command roles to medium, or security to high. Imagine how much better rounds would be if the most experienced players played the roles that required the most experience. Set an example for the flood of newbies we've had recently, and watch the overall quality of play rise over time. Experience aspects of a round that you wouldn't be able to experience on Mr. Gamer's Maintenance Ride.

fun hypothetical: What if anyone with 1k+ hours played and flagged to spawn in as assistant had a 25% chance to be force spawned as a security officer instead? Combine that with a rule making it so you're not allowed to suicide/desert your post if you roll security. Literally force the bored shitters to do something useful.

tl;dr: robust greyshitters should start being useful instead of a constant taint

sounds like someone is pretty unrobust

I agree with you

the system sould be

for every 1% of playtime as an assistant over 20 hours( for newbs) you must have an equal amount of time as a security officer, or the role is unavailable to you.

experienced players who are unwilling to take on senior responsibility roles are usually the source of most bad actors on the station

they should either sack up and take some responsbility in life like jordan peterson is always on about, or they should quit

This happens because someone decided to balance the game in such a way that allows the lowest job on the station to hack into a maximum security area and steal a locker full of high value items and an all access ID, all within the first minute of the round

experienced players who are unwilling to take on senior responsibility roles are usually the source of most bad actors on the station

they should either sack up and take some responsbility in life like jordan peterson is always on about, or they should quit

ok boomer

like honestly holy shit deedubs you're a dent head and yet you've managed to hit this one perfectly.

who would want to be a command staff or sec with current tg players, it'd be fucking hell, they're all way mor experienced and therefore robust

you can't stop them, so they greytide and make life living hell, so you stop being command/sec/head

then all these experienced players turn around and complain about incompetent command/sec on the forum

yeah, because you drove away anyone who wants to play command and sec and you're not willing to actually pick up the tab for once yourselves because you're selfish as fuck.

Qbmax32 wrote:sounds like someone is pretty unrobust

1v1, greyshirt only, no items, final thunderdome

like honestly holy shit deedubs you're a dent head and yet you've managed to hit this one perfectly.

capn_monkeypaw wrote:[chart]

dabbing on those haters.

deedubya wrote:

Qbmax32 wrote:sounds like someone is pretty unrobust

1v1, greyshirt only, no items, final thunderdome

any time anywhere ill smack that can of zero ultra right out of your hands boy

I guess I’m still an assistant main, and im definitely very experienced, so maybe I cant say shit but heres my thoughts.

First of all, forcing people to play a role is gay as fuck and how you ruin a server. I know this is just a rant thread and people throwing around hypotheticals, but its retarded and is not a good idea. By associating and grouping everyone who plays as a tider with the fags who do that bullshit every shift, you prove that you actually don’t know shit. I see countless good tide players who quietly mind their business the entire shift, usually working on a project or doing minor things like walking around playing instruments. More often than not they do it because they’ve exhausted all other means of entertaining themselves in the game. So what you’d be doing is forcing burnt players to play roles they are burnt on. Then they quit.

Whats REALLY funny is that the cunts who do this shit won’t quit, they’ll just abuse their position as sec. What can admins say, they wanted to play assistant after all?

The real question is, what the fuck do YOU offer that makes you so much better than those fags? You seem to think that its essential to the round for people to contribute, which is fucking wrong. Its your personality and playstyle that makes a round worthwhile, or alternatively, horrible. At the end of the day what job you’re playing doesn’t mean shit, except that certain jobs (command and sec) are greater enablers. And in this case, you’ll be enabling the specific players you label as having bad playstyles.

In conclusion your are retarded : )

oranges wrote:like honestly holy shit deedubs you're a dent head and yet you've managed to hit this one perfectly.

who would want to be a command staff or sec with current tg players, it'd be fucking hell, they're all way mor experienced and therefore robust

you can't stop them, so they greytide and make life living hell, so you stop being command/sec/head

then all these experienced players turn around and complain about incompetent command/sec on the forum

yeah, because you drove away anyone who wants to play command and sec and you're not willing to actually pick up the tab for once yourselves because you're selfish as fuck.

The problem with this is ESCALATION. Admins basically gave light antag rules to everyone so the self antagging assholes cant get sent on their mandatory week long breaks from the game when all they do is start shit. There was a period of time for the admin team basically encouraged the tide, and wrote rules to make the shittiest parts of it no longer bannable.

hmm today coders will lock me out of assistant so i will simply steal all the engineering slots and abandon my job

wesoda25 wrote:By associating and grouping everyone who plays as a tider with the fags who do that bullshit every shift, you prove that you actually don’t know shit. I see countless good tide players who quietly mind their business the entire shift, usually working on a project or doing minor things like walking around playing instruments. More often than not they do it because they’ve exhausted all other means of entertaining themselves in the game. So what you’d be doing is forcing burnt players to play roles they are burnt on. Then they quit.

Except I have no problem with people like that, and calling them tiders is a shit misrepresentation. Do I think they should have gone for clown/mime instead? Possibly, but I have no issue with assistant mains who legitimately help out or provide other forms of entertainment and contribute to the round positively. If you'd actually bothered to read the post, you'd know this thread is about the powergaming shitstains that want to abuse escalation and dodge responsibility.

deedubya wrote:Let me start by taking a nice big swig of my monster ultra, and say that if there's one thing I hate the most in SS13, it's assistant mains.

Honestly. Why do it? All I ever see them do is run around, hack their way into everything, grab as much powergamer loot as possible, bait people into escalating conflict with them, validhunt, make security's life hell, and overall contribute nothing to a round. They're always the most experienced players, too. Generally speaking, the most robust and knowledgeable players tend to waste it away playing as a literal nothing role in a quest to get as much gamer gear as possible. Why bother? Is it the lack of responsibility? Is it the relaxed escalation compared to if you had picked a redshirt or command role? Is it because you think you're playing "hardmode" when maintenance is full of so much free shit that you wind up running around with impunity 10 minutes in? Is it because you didn't roll antag but still want to be a dickwaffle to everyone? What's the appeal?

Meanwhile, those same experienced players will then complain about low quality security and command staff day in and day out, while they run around with insuls soap and toolbelts specifically making it difficult for these lesser experienced players to acclimate to their roles. This is probably the worst part. You're a veteran player with knowledge of most if not almost all of the game's mechanics and are quite robust, yet instead of using that experience to positively influence a round you're in and set an example for less experienced players, you go out of your way to make the experience worse overall. It's been happening for so many years I don't even remember when it started, and it's always annoyed me.

If you have 1k+ hours and you're flagged to assistant or assistant+(curator, janitor, etc) stop. Maybe consider flagging some command roles to medium, or security to high. Imagine how much better rounds would be if the most experienced players played the roles that required the most experience. Set an example for the flood of newbies we've had recently, and watch the overall quality of play rise over time. Experience aspects of a round that you wouldn't be able to experience on Mr. Gamer's Maintenance Ride.

fun hypothetical: What if anyone with 1k+ hours played and flagged to spawn in as assistant had a 25% chance to be force spawned as a security officer instead? Combine that with a rule making it so you're not allowed to suicide/desert your post if you roll security. Literally force the bored shitters to do something useful.

tl;dr: robust greyshitters should start being useful instead of a constant taint

Did...
Did I like table you too often or something?

Who hurt you?
Who dropped you on your head so hard you made this rant?

Your post literally says people with 1000+ hours and playing as assistant should have a 25% chance to spawn as sec, perhaps you should read your own post before responding? Or alternatively, read my post instead of failing to counter my simplest point : )

wesoda25 wrote:snip

spot on, god bless

well i was referring to your first post and now you posted twice so you ruined it thanks doubleposting btw

i try

Dr_bee wrote:
The problem with this is ESCALATION. Admins basically gave light antag rules to everyone so the self antagging assholes cant get sent on their mandatory week long breaks from the game when all they do is start shit. There was a period of time for the admin team basically encouraged the tide, and wrote rules to make the shittiest parts of it no longer bannable.

I didn't even have to leave a comment

PKPenguin321 wrote:hmm today coders will lock me out of assistant so i will simply steal all the engineering slots and abandon my job

You'll get banned faster "tiding" as an engineer than an assistant though, funnily enough.

TWATICUS wrote:well i was referring to your first post and now you posted twice so you ruined it thanks doubleposting btw

want me to draw u a pfp ill make a nice cat (make up cat is ugly and i feel bad for that poor kitty)

for every 10 hours of assistant playtime, assistant mains should have to go through 10 hours of CBT to make up for the pain and suffering they subject to the rest of society

Cobby wrote:

PKPenguin321 wrote:hmm today coders will lock me out of assistant so i will simply steal all the engineering slots and abandon my job

You'll get banned faster "tiding" as an engineer than an assistant though, funnily enough.

source: dude trust me

oranges wrote:like honestly holy shit deedubs you're a dent head and yet you've managed to hit this one perfectly.

who would want to be a command staff or sec with current tg players, it'd be fucking hell, they're all way mor experienced and therefore robust

you can't stop them, so they greytide and make life living hell, so you stop being command/sec/head

then all these experienced players turn around and complain about incompetent command/sec on the forum

yeah, because you drove away anyone who wants to play command and sec and you're not willing to actually pick up the tab for once yourselves because you're selfish as fuck.

I do, it's fun to herd assistants, specially robust ones that kick my shit in, makes me want to git gud
I also have fun tiding, I try not to go too far with the whole making people mad thing and just do things that can share the fun, like giving away sec gear to others, bolting HoP office open for others to bully the HoP, welding down the walls to medbay storage, etc
this gives sec officers their fun at trying and mostly succeeding at arresting me
I can't speak about command roles because I shy away from them, I tried CE many times when I understood the SM and atmos a bit more, but new gasses and mechanics like fusion drove me away

PKPenguin321 wrote:

Cobby wrote:

PKPenguin321 wrote:hmm today coders will lock me out of assistant so i will simply steal all the engineering slots and abandon my job

You'll get banned faster "tiding" as an engineer than an assistant though, funnily enough.

source: dude trust me

I guess it depends on how you tide but using engineer to get free tools has nabbed people with engineering bans before.

I don't have the drive to sift through literally who ckeys because I can't search based on reason in the DB so :shrug:.

Mickyan wrote:This happens because someone decided to balance the game in such a way that allows the lowest job on the station to hack into a maximum security area and steal a locker full of high value items and an all access ID, all within the first minute of the round

Try to take the tider toys and you get even more backlash.

wesoda25 wrote:

TWATICUS wrote:well i was referring to your first post and now you posted twice so you ruined it thanks doubleposting btw

want me to draw u a pfp ill make a nice cat (make up cat is ugly and i feel bad for that poor kitty)

yes i would love that but makeup cat is beautiful ok??

deedubya wrote: If you have 1k+ hours and you're flagged to assistant or assistant+(curator, janitor, etc)

chaplains are way worse than any of the other service roles you listed
janitors are usually chill what are you on about

This wouldn't be a problem if other jobs were fun. Veteran players keep playing assistant because its more fun running around doing whatever the fuck you feel like than doing most jobs on the station. Blocking people from being assistant means they will just keep up the same behavior but as more important roles.

No one is going to accept more responsibility if they don't get benefits for it. Make other jobs FUN and REWARDING. Give them cool stuff to do, give them unique gameplay associated with their job, give them fun items to have for doing their job like mining. Otherwise they are just going to keep playing assistant because its the best chance of finding something fun to do.

Personally on topics like these about balancing the game and removing grief

I'm stuck in a struggle with an innate desire for a chaotical and fun space station, so one that doesn't turn into a work simulator of doom,

And innate anger against people only enjoying the game by acting like complete dicks with a large amount of insanity.

Where is the middle ground here?

TWATICUS wrote:wesoda u r so cool omg

that will be 500 dollars

wait hold up i can make it better

nvm i cant

actioninja wrote:

Mickyan wrote:This happens because someone decided to balance the game in such a way that allows the lowest job on the station to hack into a maximum security area and steal a locker full of high value items and an all access ID, all within the first minute of the round

Try to take the tider toys and you get even more backlash.

It wouldn't be the first time the codebus has been deliberately tonedeaf in an attempt to improve the server culture.

wesoda25 wrote:t

>not pink
disappointed tbh

NoxVS wrote:This wouldn't be a problem if other jobs were fun. Veteran players keep playing assistant because its more fun running around doing whatever the fuck you feel like than doing most jobs on the station. Blocking people from being assistant means they will just keep up the same behavior but as more important roles.

No one is going to accept more responsibility if they don't get benefits for it. Make other jobs FUN and REWARDING. Give them cool stuff to do, give them unique gameplay associated with their job, give them fun items to have for doing their job like mining. Otherwise they are just going to keep playing assistant because its the best chance of finding something fun to do.

You're not gonna get orange or cobby to agree with you on this. It's a lost cause.

iksyp wrote:

deedubya wrote: If you have 1k+ hours and you're flagged to assistant or assistant+(curator, janitor, etc)

chaplains are way worse than any of the other service roles you listed
janitors are usually chill what are you on about

Chaplains at least occasionally have a fun roleplay gimmick. Sure they are usually useless but its a job that actually encourages some roleplay.

Also I agree about janitors. They arent assistant like at all. Good janitors are your best friends.

Boy

That escalated quickly

Where my service mains at?

Who would've thought that players eventually get bored, because nothing is being added, except epic medical changes, nerfs, and other fuckery no one asked for, turn to fucking with other players to get some enjoyment out of /tg/

I main RD, which along with the HoS, is the most "important" head for the station to function smoothly (hop also, but the comdom can do his job theoretically).

I do it because, frankly, if no one is trying to tard wrangle a bit, research will be wasted, miners will never get their tools (meaning no minerals for the rest of the station), no one will upgrade the cloner or robotics or the borg recharge stations, no one will secure RnD, no one will know how to reset a subverted AI and so forth.

Frankly, half the RDs work like scientists with a fancy cloak. I especially have a bad opinion about one particular RD on Terry who basically rolls RD on high then goes in maint to validhunt all shift.

But should that be not allowed? I am not sure if that should he the case and I wouldn't really like it. Sometimes the game progresses in weird ways naturally and even I end up not doing my job/parts of my job. Should that result in a week off head roles?

Basically, Context Matters and I am not sure if admins can see the full context on things like "doing a good enough job as head"

As a person who doesn't have much experience and is pretty new, I do realize the appeal in Asisstant. On the other hand, even though
I know most of medical like the palm of my hand, I don't want to try CMO for two reasons:
- An expectation to be robust, which I ain't.
- An expectation of dealing with antags, which i have no idea how to do.

Otherwise I'm just going to be another "bad head" like the ones you describe. it's just not worth it.
Just because you know how the jobs work doesn't mean you're ready for being a Head. you also have to be at least
somewhat robust, which a completely different skillset altogether.

And as far as i've been told, playing asisstant is the best way to learn to be robust, so everyone has to pass
by asisstant to even have the skillset to be a Head.
And i am sure you can tell me how long it takes to become robust, so maybe the reason is there?

P.S. those graphs are dope as heck and i want to know how to get one.

I'm an assistant main, I don't play much anymore but when I do it's always assistant. Why? Because I enjoy the relaxed pace and being able to wander around without people pestering me. I get to test and learn about recently added features without others screaming at me for not knowing them. I can stand still and chat in OOC for as long as I want without others shoving me around because I'm not doing my job. If I want to go somewhere I don't have access to, I just grab a bunch of tools and hack my way in. If I need money, I break into the morgue or cloning and look for IDs. I usually keep the IDs from morgued corpses (more access), otherwise I just take the cash out and leave them there. If I get arrested, I enjoy it as a break from the monotony of the round while I chit-chat with officers and watch them deal with other prisoners. If stuff is happening, like blob/ops/revs, I jump in and do my best. When I die I either observe or hop to another server. I used to play ghost roles but they're all boring except maybe ash lizards.

I like playing assistant and I hope devs don't remove it.

tinodrima7020 wrote:Who would've thought that players eventually get bored, because nothing is being added, except epic medical changes, nerfs, and other fuckery no one asked for, turn to fucking with other players to get some enjoyment out of /tg/

this is bullshit considering the only person who ever made major new features got hated by 90% of the playerbase

awww shiet we flaunting role time in here
But really, problem with assistants is that they serve no practical purpose. Originally they were meant to assist everyone else, but since no one roleplays and there's no mechanical systems to support it, no one does. It's a role for people that do not care about SS13 world, lore, roleplaying, they just want to play with zero commitment in a theme park. Usually just fucking shit up.
So what you want to do, is to make assistant lowest of the low class with no status. Taking away default maint access has been tried, and didn't quite work. Removing the role altogether didn't work either.
So I don't know, good luck.

Actually, a proper working economy system, where an assistant is worth nothing and makes nothing unless they engage with other departments would work. But also good luck with that.

I've tried saying that they should lose maintenance and other things for a long time. It got whinged away time and again.
If the codebase cannot remove such obvious perks it is not on people for taking the blatantly obvious easy road when the other, more difficult ones, offer little in way of recompense for the 'responsibility' as you put it.

Just like playing security, it's Effort, and frankly people who put in Effort have long been shit upon hereabout.

Snowflakey chaplains are played because they get a private bunker and special weapon option with zero responsibility.

You made the game play like an arcade; People Play it like an arcade game

Sandshark808 wrote:

NoxVS wrote:This wouldn't be a problem if other jobs were fun. Veteran players keep playing assistant because its more fun running around doing whatever the fuck you feel like than doing most jobs on the station. Blocking people from being assistant means they will just keep up the same behavior but as more important roles.

No one is going to accept more responsibility if they don't get benefits for it. Make other jobs FUN and REWARDING. Give them cool stuff to do, give them unique gameplay associated with their job, give them fun items to have for doing their job like mining. Otherwise they are just going to keep playing assistant because its the best chance of finding something fun to do.

You're not gonna get orange or cobby to agree with you on this. It's a lost cause.

I agree, just make the game fun lmao

Grazyn wrote:I'm an assistant main, I don't play much anymore but when I do it's always assistant. Why? Because I enjoy the relaxed pace and being able to wander around without people pestering me. I get to test and learn about recently added features without others screaming at me for not knowing them. I can stand still and chat in OOC for as long as I want without others shoving me around because I'm not doing my job. If I want to go somewhere I don't have access to, I just grab a bunch of tools and hack my way in. If I need money, I break into the morgue or cloning and look for IDs. I usually keep the IDs from morgued corpses (more access), otherwise I just take the cash out and leave them there. If I get arrested, I enjoy it as a break from the monotony of the round while I chit-chat with officers and watch them deal with other prisoners. If stuff is happening, like blob/ops/revs, I jump in and do my best. When I die I either observe or hop to another server. I used to play ghost roles but they're all boring except maybe ash lizards.

I like playing assistant and I hope devs don't remove it.

this is how most assistant mains should play, sniff

Some jobs promote tiding

One of them being chemistry because you're either just an automation machine constantly pumping out medicine. Or a lesson on ethical cruelty as you make and dispense drugs, death mixes, and torture chemicals. IE skewium and lube.

Genetics is also boring in a similar sense. Considering it's just a job where you unlock super-powers and then find reasons to use the more harmful ones. Although that job got nerfed so hard by incidental changes targetting other mechanics, making it very repetitive and uninteresting. it ultimately just needs more content.

Atmos is a tiders dream because no one understands that job

Shaft-Mining, the Cook, and Xenobiologist find themselves so engaged that you never see tiding from them.

Its just content versus boredom here

With a little bit of too much complexity.