/tg/Station 13

Bottom post of the previous page:

Some jobs promote tiding

One of them being chemistry because you're either just an automation machine constantly pumping out medicine. Or a lesson on ethical cruelty as you make and dispense drugs, death mixes, and torture chemicals. IE skewium and lube.

Genetics is also boring in a similar sense. Considering it's just a job where you unlock super-powers and then find reasons to use the more harmful ones. Although that job got nerfed so hard by incidental changes targetting other mechanics, making it very repetitive and uninteresting. it ultimately just needs more content.

Atmos is a tiders dream because no one understands that job

Shaft-Mining, the Cook, and Xenobiologist find themselves so engaged that you never see tiding from them.

Its just content versus boredom here

With a little bit of too much complexity.

oranges wrote:

tinodrima7020 wrote:Who would've thought that players eventually get bored, because nothing is being added, except epic medical changes, nerfs, and other fuckery no one asked for, turn to fucking with other players to get some enjoyment out of /tg/

this is bullshit considering the only person who ever made major new features got hated by 90% of the playerbase

This is the most braindead post you have ever made Oranges.

Are you saying that 90% of the community hated the change from the laggy atmos system to the new version of it that processes it fast and adds shit like depressurization? No.
Are you saying that 90% of the community hated the change where mining went from a menial job with next to no reward for the effort to a more combat/exploratory role that rewards miners for mining more? No.
Are you saying that 90% of the community hated the change where the kitchen went from basically having burgers and waffles to having a fuckload of food and the ability to make custom food? No.
Are you saying that 90% of the community hated the change where cargo got the ability to make more money via bounties? No.
Are you saying that 90% of the community hated the change hated how xenobio got the ability to make crossbreed extracts that vastly amplifies potential rewards of putting time and effort into xenobiology? No.
Are you saying that 90% of the community hated the change where the icons went from the most flat shading I have seen outside of mspaint to actually having detail and depth now?
Are you saying that 90% of the community hated the change where dismemberment was added and it made combat feel better?

God, I can think of a fuckload more to the list above, and every one of those makes your point that much more retarded.
Just because the project that you're trying to force is hated by the community doesn't mean every major change was hated by the community, maybe it's a reflection of the people involved with that specific one?

I cannot wait for MSO to eventually appear again and do another NTstation because your hubris and idiocy got in the way of actually making the project better in the long run.

The reason I don't enjoy playing Command is because then I have to shepherd a bunch of retards or if I'm Captain a bunch of retards with access to loud mode while trying my hardest to delay the chaos inevitable demise of the station around me. It's a lot of stress and not a lot of fun.
So I either play AI which means I observe and open doors and doorshock annoying cats for fun until a traitor subverts me or I roll malf (honestly I enjoy being in arguably the most powerful role on the station and using it to give people increased options rather than going "no sorry I can't open that door for you there's a screwdriver and you might hurt yourself"; increased options lead to increased creativity leads to better rounds), or I just take part in the chaos and fuck around. Remember, chayosh ish a ladder.

TheMythicGhost wrote:

oranges wrote:stuff about one specific person

autistic rant about individual changes

lol reading comprehension fail

Glad to see I'm still living up to my name, even if other jobs are starting to catch up.

Make it so if assistant is more than 50% of your playtime, you just don't play assistant (and like PK said just fuck off with some other jobs tools and slot).

4dplanner wrote:

TheMythicGhost wrote:

oranges wrote:stuff about one specific person

autistic rant about individual changes

lol reading comprehension fail

Planner, I recommend you read the sentence again. The point of that 'autistic rant' is to highlight that there wasn't just one person that made major new changes, and 90% of the community didn't hate all major new changes nor the people involved in those changes.

TheMythicGhost wrote:

4dplanner wrote:snip

Planner, I recommend you read the sentence again. The point of that 'autistic rant' is to highlight that there wasn't just one person that made major new changes, and 90% of the community didn't hate all major new changes nor the people involved in those changes.

Fair enough, I still don't think pointing out individual changes being received well is enough to counter the fact that the TG community tends to drive away/attack all the biggest content creators

4dplanner wrote:

TheMythicGhost wrote:

4dplanner wrote:snip

Planner, I recommend you read the sentence again. The point of that 'autistic rant' is to highlight that there wasn't just one person that made major new changes, and 90% of the community didn't hate all major new changes nor the people involved in those changes.

Fair enough, I still don't think pointing out individual changes being received well is enough to counter the fact that the TG community tends to drive away/attack all the biggest content creators

Not the point, stop strawmanning.

Thing is both a bad and good change will get major pushback. I don’t fucking know what people who change systems expect, you are literally changing how the game is played and forcing people to deal with it until its refined enough. If you don’t want drama don’t bother coding major changes :shrug:

I mean, I see a lot of experienced players who CONSTANTLY tide, instead of doing anything helpful or productive or fun. Ekat being an example of tiding happening even OUTSIDE of assistant, within HEAD OF STAFF jobs none the less, Alongside countless times someone's yelled at me for arresting them because they broke into brig to get a sechud. Motherfucker you're not supposed to be here, and I'm supposed to defend my brig.

TheMythicGhost wrote:
Are you saying that 90% of the community hated the change from the laggy atmos system to the new version of it that processes it fast and adds shit like depressurization? No.

When was atmos code changed?

TheMythicGhost wrote: Not the point, stop strawmanning.

lol redditor

anyway, as to the original point: player reactions to change don't really have anything to do with whether it's "bullshit" that lack of interesting changes drives people to greytide, it's just giving another cause of it

Dunno how anyone could come to the conclusion that greytiding has anything to do with recent changes considering it's been a thing ever since this game even existed

If being an assistant was actually hard you wouldn't see as many people choosing it, their access to maintenance by itself is more valuable than what many other jobs have to offer without any of the responsibilities, which is perfect for someone that just wants to cause trouble

It's also worth mentioning that for reasons that are still a mistery to me admins will let assistants get away with things that wouldn't fly with any other job, which to me is absolutely backwards

oranges wrote:

tinodrima7020 wrote:Who would've thought that players eventually get bored, because nothing is being added, except epic medical changes, nerfs, and other fuckery no one asked for, turn to fucking with other players to get some enjoyment out of /tg/

this is bullshit considering the only person who ever made major new features got hated by 90% of the playerbase

At the risk of getting a rarely plays tag, who is this person?
Kor the burned out? he is/was pretty popular.
Remie the molten down? That was on managment.
Joan the powertripper? They had it coming.
Cheridan? Niknak? Paprika?
Oldmancloudyeller? XDTM? the maintainers club?
Xhuis?? Kevinz?? triple M?? DAX?? fucking goofball??

My alts need not to be addressed

moodlets are good

Lumbermancer wrote:moodlets are good

I agree

just kill assistants no one is gonna cry about it

angelstarri wrote:just kill assistants no one is gonna cry about it

The assistants will

angelstarri wrote:just kill assistants no one is gonna cry about it

with the symptom of the problem but not the actual problem removed, assistants now do the exact same thing as important roles

You don't need to nerf or buff assistants
Only the players need to change
But it will never happen

cursed thread please close

TheMythicGhost wrote:Not the point, stop strawmanning.

?

Lumbermancer wrote:moodlets are good

Moodlets just cause not eating to be punished twice. Once with the hunger meter and once with the mood meter.

Come now, I for one object to this ridiculous myth that some of us only ever play as assistants and do nothing better with our lives.

Well some play assistant like an interactive spectator mode, yes.

I personally played asisstant for some time because I wanted to learn the layout of the staiton (I was sick of never knowing where stuff was)
and it actually is very useful when you want to play Sec/engi, because you know where the usual places with problems are.

Asisstant is basically saying "don't pay atention to me I'm just looking around" unless you actually start doing things.

I am an unapologetic silicon main but there was a time where I was a command main. Assistant is my cooldown job because to be perfectly frank, even I have my limits at being screamed at, and I suppose I do tide in a sense (though can it really be tide if it's pacifist tide?). I enjoy the thrill of a chase, evading pursurers and outsmarting them but I dare you to find an instance where I've ever thrown the first punch, or even one at all.

Assistants is fine sometimes you just want to be him some dude with not responsibility. Heads roles is big pain in ass you forced to WORK and solve station problems same with security you need to care about antags and tiders. So assistants just relaxation role. You just run around and dont give a shit about hell around you.

TheMythicGhost wrote: Are you saying that 90% of the community hated the change where the icons went from the most flat shading I have seen outside of mspaint to actually having detail and depth now?

i hate it so therefore everybody hates it

As a Sec/Cap main, you either have it in you or you don't. I hypothesize job selection is mediated by personality more than anything else. There are likely correlations between the proportion of hours spent as Security/Captain, and how agreeable a person is. People that are disagreeable are more likely to be hostile and argumentative, and are generally more tolerant of conflict than other people. Conflict tolerance being a determining factor of whether you main sec or not, as you will be having constant conflicts. Also Security's job is the keeping of order on station. Orderliness falls under the domain of conscientiousness, and thus there could be a link there as well.

So why do you not have many sec mains? Probably because someone that is low in agreeableness and high in conscientiousness is selected against at the SS13 game level, or at the server level. In other words, not many people with that personality profile play SS13, or if they do, not on /tg/station, because they are discriminated against in some way that moves them to other servers.

No amount of incentives is going to make an Assistant main who is on one opposite end of a personality spectrum be a Security Officer. Forcing them to will just make them play less or stop playing altogether. If you want more Sec/Heads of Staff, you have to lower the threshold for conflict tolerance necessary to comfortably play the role. This will make it so that people that almost have the psychological criteria suddenly fit, and far more likely to play the role. Basically, make it harder to greytide, nerf antagonists, and make it easier to do your job as Security.

If there's anyone here who has any sort of ambition, you should conduct a survey of player's five factor model personality (and better yet more variables than that, so more research can be done) and see if there are any statistically significant correlations between personality and job selection. Actually since I like research and know how to do it properly, I would do this all myself just because it's interesting. Alas, you have banned me. I don't think you deserve it, and most people here probably don't know how to read research articles anyway. Still a good idea.

MGP wrote:Attempting to psychoanalyze a game's playerbase correlating agreeableness to sec/command, and conscientiousness to other lower responsibility jobs using one of the least scientifically backed psychological models.

I don't agree with any part of this psychoanalysis, and I feel the choices in role mainly fall on (the answer to these can change on a round to round basis):

• A. What mechanics govern the job? Are they fun? Do they have depth?
  B. What kind of responsibility do I want to play in a role right now?
  C. How much power do I have in this role over others? Subsequently, how much power in this role do others have over me?
  D. How many players go for this? Is there a reason they go for this? Should I find out?

I've gone pretty much everything from Silicon, to Security, to Clown (a few times), to Captain, to Assistant. Not specifically, but in a range.
Generally, I feel you get to experience the most out of the station if you're not tied to any single department, since you'll usually be going around to every single one of them and getting into interactions that people limited to their job generally won't without external factors affecting them.

firecage wrote:

Imagine a person having the patience to spend over 60 solar cycles playing SS13, and that same person playing bartender for ten minutes, say "Nah, this is boh-ring." and never trying it again.

Farquaar wrote:Imagine a person having the patience to spend over 60 solar cycles playing SS13, and that same person playing bartender for ten minutes, say "Nah, this is boh-ring." and never trying it again.

People who hate RP hate playing Bartender, because it's just chemistry-lite except you get to shotgun the clown with beanbags.

Remove maint access from assistants. If they want to play the "hardmode" job then make it actually hard for them so they don't get griefing tools 5 seconds into the round.

Dante Must Die Mode: Remove salary from assistants because fuck them, no gloves for you.

Make assistants "passengers"

Xeroxemnas wrote:Remove maint access from assistants. If they want to play the "hardmode" job then make it actually hard for them so they don't get griefing tools 5 seconds into the round.

Dante Must Die Mode: Remove salary from assistants because fuck them, no gloves for you.

Shouldn't these be in the "shitty ideas" thread? I think you got the wrong forum.

don't change anything about assistants or how they play. instead, put a job limit on them that changes over time and scales with how many people are playing security/heads (and, to a lesser extent, the regular jobs). if you want to play a certain role but without the responsibilities, you'd have to turn on both assistant and that job if you wanted it, since there's no guarantee you're rolling assistant. in addition, this makes sure that there's always a decent amount of security that can deal with greytiders without being overwhelmed.

Plapatin wrote:don't change anything about assistants or how they play. instead, put a job limit on them that changes over time and scales with how many people are playing security/heads (and, to a lesser extent, the regular jobs). if you want to play a certain role but without the responsibilities, you'd have to turn on both assistant and that job if you wanted it, since there's no guarantee you're rolling assistant. in addition, this makes sure that there's always a decent amount of security that can deal with greytiders without being overwhelmed.

Didn't we try that before?

ThanatosRa wrote: Didn't we try that before?

i don't believe so but i'm not sure. even if we did try it, it was certainly a long enough time ago to where it wouldn't hurt trying it again, especially with the ssethtide shifting the atmosphere and whatnot

Plapatin wrote:

ThanatosRa wrote: Didn't we try that before?

i don't believe so but i'm not sure. even if we did try it, it was certainly a long enough time ago to where it wouldn't hurt trying it again, especially with the ssethtide shifting the atmosphere and whatnot

the tears or angry assistant mains would be delicious though.

ThanatosRa wrote:the tears or angry assistant mains would be delicious though.

That means we have to do it.

Sandshark808 wrote:

ThanatosRa wrote:the tears or angry assistant mains would be delicious though.

That means we have to do it.

seething

CPTANT wrote:Moodlets just cause not eating to be punished twice. Once with the hunger meter and once with the mood meter.

If you're going to complain about features, at least understand how they work so you don't look like a complete moron.

Hunger only interacts with mood if its enabled. The bar does nothing besides affect mood.

not that that matters since being literally starving to death should have bad downsides

removing tiders just puts the tiders in another job slot

Remember engineering tide

and Remember Antag Rep Head Position tide

Honestly just commit full paradise style, and ban anyone you think is not fit for this community. That'll get your medium RP real quick, with less lag.

But. If you want a full commitment without all the mass bans and thanosing.

Changing the broken rules of yesteryears like escalation would be our best bet.

ThanatosRa wrote:

Plapatin wrote:don't change anything about assistants or how they play. instead, put a job limit on them that changes over time and scales with how many people are playing security/heads (and, to a lesser extent, the regular jobs). if you want to play a certain role but without the responsibilities, you'd have to turn on both assistant and that job if you wanted it, since there's no guarantee you're rolling assistant. in addition, this makes sure that there's always a decent amount of security that can deal with greytiders without being overwhelmed.

Didn't we try that before?

Yeah whenever I logged in and assistant cap was reached, I selected either cargo or atmos tech (for maint access), stripped my suit, changed into a grey suit, then (optionally) headed to the HoP to demote me to assistant.

Real assistant main would just abuse extended access while ignoring the job.

Lumbermancer wrote:Real assistant main would just abuse extended access while ignoring the job.

that's extra gay

Lumbermancer wrote:Real assistant main would just abuse extended access while ignoring the job.

No way I'm keeping the department suit on, and then I'd get chain-arrested for trespassing. It gets boring after a while. Just loot the place first

Tarchonvaagh wrote:Make assistants "passengers"

one of the hrp servers "removed assistant" then made an otherwise identical jobless role called "visitor" and tiding went down overnight

I dunno if that was just 'cause of the shock of "hey asshole, assistants don't exist here" reminding them that they're not playing on a traditional ss13 server though

Screemonster wrote:

Tarchonvaagh wrote:Make assistants "passengers"

one of the hrp servers "removed assistant" then made an otherwise identical jobless role called "visitor" and tiding went down overnight

I dunno if that was just 'cause of the shock of "hey asshole, assistants don't exist here" reminding them that they're not playing on a traditional ss13 server though

Well it makes the RP different. You would treat an employee different from just some random asshole who is on the station.

I imagine it makes spacing them or throwing them in permabrig easier.