Do people feel genetics moving to science was a good move?

knacker48 · Post by **knacker48** » Sat Jan 25, 2020 6:51 pm #537270

I'll be honest, I never really saw point of the change, and it seemed to create less options rather than more. With genetics a whole department away its much harder to do the 'turn a monkey into a human, scoop his brains out and put another in to revive some' trick. Maybe its just because of how awkward the transition has been, with mappers moving the experimentor and bepis to random spots on the map or making the morgue weirdly large, but I haven't seen the upsides.

What have I been missing that makes this a good change? Or was it change for the sake of it?

Super Aggro Crag · Sat Jan 25, 2020 7:32 pm

genetics in science is another case of science department bloat. now they have two jobs dedicated solely to giving the science team superpowers, nanites and geneblasting

Post by **NoxVS** » Sat Jan 25, 2020 7:46 pm #537273

the only solution to fix the science bloat and medicine content drought is to merge the two. Make it like Biotechnology or some shit. Give engineering the job of doing stock part stuff.

cacogen · Post by **cacogen** » Sat Jan 25, 2020 11:44 pm #537293

XDTM · Post by **XDTM** » Sun Jan 26, 2020 2:12 am #537309

Medical and science being directly connected and having limited shared access, kinda like bartender and cook, does sound like an interesting experiment to try.

Anonmare · Post by **Anonmare** » Sun Jan 26, 2020 2:20 am #537310

I dislike that mappers just altered the pre-existing rooms and didn't change the size at all. Genetics and the morgue definitely don't need that much space, just replace it with maintenance and we can tear it out later if we need to

Post by **Vekter** » Sun Jan 26, 2020 4:32 am #537322

Anonmare wrote:I dislike that mappers just altered the pre-existing rooms and didn't change the size at all. Genetics and the morgue definitely don't need that much space, just replace it with maintenance and we can tear it out later if we need to

I've got a plan for that spot on Meta in the near future. Edge was SUPPOSED to be putting his Psychologist's office there but that project's on hiatus.

I moved Genetics to Science because it's so barely tangentially related to medical at this point. The only medical things they did were cure cloning damage (which can be done easier by a chemist) or run the cloner (which either runs itself or no longer exists depending on which server you're on). Genetics is, at the end of the day, a research job.

I mainly did it because I'm going to be iterating on the research department in a big way and just making it a purely science job makes balancing it a bit easier.

I have yet to hear a valid complaint that isn't "Where they were is ugly on the map now" or "I don't like it because it's different".

Lazengann · Post by **Lazengann** » Sun Jan 26, 2020 7:26 am #537326

Okay here's my complaint, I can't steal their mutadone to quickly fix patients with issues any more

Post by **Armhulen** » Sun Jan 26, 2020 7:46 pm #537383

Lazengann wrote:Okay here's my complaint, I can't steal their mutadone to quickly fix patients with issues any more

kinda tempted to add just one special medkit with a bit of mutadone

crashmatusow · Sun Jan 26, 2020 9:37 pm

Medical lost one of its fun toys, and sci is further cemented as the ultimate gamer department.

Not that this issue is scoped to just genetics.

Whoneedspacee · Thu Jan 30, 2020 10:33 pm

it was a stupid idea that wont be changed because oranges would refuse if someone even tried

it’s still stupid now since sci bloat gets ridiculous and genetics belongs as a medical department, but my main issue with it is fury wanted me to help add an organ research system, which all things considered belongs as a genetics thing, but isn’t a medical department.

with robotics and genetics i sometimes wonder if science should just absorb the entire fucking medical department at this rate considering they can do everything medical can and better.

Shadowflame909 · Thu Jan 30, 2020 11:28 pm

Whoneedspacee wrote:it was a stupid idea that wont be changed because oranges would refuse if someone even tried

it’s still stupid now since sci bloat gets ridiculous and genetics belongs as a medical department, but my main issue with it is fury wanted me to help add an organ research system, which all things considered belongs as a genetics thing, but isn’t a medical department.

with robotics and genetics i sometimes wonder if science should just absorb the entire fucking medical department at this rate considering they can do everything medical can and better.

Nanites is virology but with a techno vibe

Qbopper · Post by **Qbopper** » Fri Jan 31, 2020 1:02 am #538367

Vekter wrote:I have yet to hear a valid complaint that isn't "Where they were is ugly on the map now" or "I don't like it because it's different".

science bloat is real is a common one

AnonymousNow · Fri Jan 31, 2020 1:08 am

NoxVS wrote:the only solution to fix the science bloat and medicine content drought is to merge the two. Make it like Biotechnology or some shit. Give engineering the job of doing stock part stuff.

Funny - I recall when this was technically the case, minus the name biotechnology.

XivilaiAnaxes · Fri Jan 31, 2020 1:46 am

NoxVS wrote:the only solution to fix the science bloat and medicine content drought is to merge the two. Make it like Biotechnology or some shit. Give engineering the job of doing stock part stuff.

Honestly like the idea - on a regular ass research station, why is there a gigantic portion that is solely dedicated to treating injuries? Any scifi show medical is basically just 1-3 rooms and theres only the one doctor with some nurses/AI help.

Making medical and science a giant department makes more sense from a fluff perspective, but make each job a bit more specialised/isolated (xenobio guy shouldn't be accessing any other non xenobio labs like toxins or chemistry for example) so that the scientists dont all group up - sorta how like engineers tend to ignore the atmosphere techs and vice versa

Qbopper · Post by **Qbopper** » Fri Jan 31, 2020 2:11 am #538425

XivilaiAnaxes wrote:
NoxVS wrote:the only solution to fix the science bloat and medicine content drought is to merge the two. Make it like Biotechnology or some shit. Give engineering the job of doing stock part stuff.
Honestly like the idea - on a regular ass research station, why is there a gigantic portion that is solely dedicated to treating injuries? Any scifi show medical is basically just 1-3 rooms and theres only the one doctor with some nurses/AI help.

our research station is constantly attacked by corporate warfare and shit

XivilaiAnaxes · Fri Jan 31, 2020 2:23 am

The Enterprise might as well be a full time warship and it has one moderately sized room for the entire ship's medical.

Honestly the cmo should be on the same level as the quartermaster (and don't tell me the hop manages cargo they rarely ever touch cargo).

Hell there's a fair argument robotics should be in engineering. Borgs aren't "research" and the only delicate thing about the job is scooping people's brains out.

Whoneedspacee · Fri Jan 31, 2020 6:09 am

on this note of moving positions around

robotics - should be moved, fits more with engineering being mechanical, last i checked the manufacturers of the parts didn’t also design the things by themselves. why are researchers building big ass mechs with welders and shit. it’s not like they won’t still have genetics, xenobio, and nanites shit.

toxins - should be an atmospherics job, this is a research job sure, but it’s not like jobs like medical don’t help with medical research through surgery and jobs like mining don’t hep with mining research through materials. atmospherics can be a non research job and still help with research through toxins and it’s totally fair, i mean they make the gasses like hypernoblium for research as well.

this would give a lot more love to engineering / atmos at least, and would probably benefit the station more because i think it needs more engineers than scientists.

i still don’t like genetics being a sci job but if these are moved thatd be good

XDTM · Post by **XDTM** » Fri Jan 31, 2020 8:25 am #538488

Considering the Lore™ about the station being a research station, I really like the idea of making Research the Big Main Department and splitting it into inter-connected sectors, with Biomedical including the official station medbay. If i were to design the map anew, i would probably keep robotics in research but sharing a door with engineering, and the same for toxins and atmospherics.

Post by **Kryson** » Fri Jan 31, 2020 8:31 am #538489

Armhulen wrote:
Lazengann wrote:Okay here's my complaint, I can't steal their mutadone to quickly fix patients with issues any more
kinda tempted to add just one special medkit with a bit of mutadone

No, please.

It just takes a few clicks in the dispenser.

Yes if you remove the apothecary.

Post by **Armhulen** » Fri Jan 31, 2020 5:49 pm #538543

Kryson wrote:
Armhulen wrote:
Lazengann wrote:Okay here's my complaint, I can't steal their mutadone to quickly fix patients with issues any more
kinda tempted to add just one special medkit with a bit of mutadone
No, please.

It just takes a few clicks in the dispenser.

Yes if you remove the apothecary.

sounds good, will do when the apo goes

Sheodir · Post by **Sheodir** » Fri Jan 31, 2020 6:10 pm #538545

Genetics fucking sucks in its current form anyway and its placement is the least of its problems

Sylphet · Post by **Sylphet** » Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:37 pm #542725

^^ this is the right opinion. Genetics needs much more attention than just a location change. But moving it to science is the right direction, I think.

Timonk · Post by **Timonk** » Sun Feb 16, 2020 12:34 am #542729

You need hulk xenobio healing and nanites for the ultimate triumvirate

Timonk · Post by **Timonk** » Sun Feb 16, 2020 12:35 am #542730

If you wanna go all the way stock up on nuka Cola and get a posibrain in a Odysseus to be your pet

deedubya · Post by **deedubya** » Sun Feb 16, 2020 7:40 am #542795

Science bloat on a research station? Perish the thought.

Dunno why it was physically moved, though. On box/meta it was already located right next to the science wing, and the way it was moved was ugly and inelegant as all hell.

Mon Feb 17, 2020 12:55 am

The more I play medical doctor, the less I feel like this was a good change. Having access to monkeymen/selective mutation removal is so nice to have as MD, but that's all been reduced to "inject mutadone" which is way lame

Sheodir · Post by **Sheodir** » Mon Feb 17, 2020 1:30 pm #543021

PKPenguin321 wrote:The more I play medical doctor, the less I feel like this was a good change. Having access to monkeymen/selective mutation removal is so nice to have as MD, but that's all been reduced to "inject mutadone" which is way lame

I tend to agree. The logic here is that "Research belongs in Science" but Viro is already in Medical, so it clearly seems to imply to me that biological research regarding human beings (and close genetic matches) fits Medical more. Plus plenty of medical uses for cloned bodies as organ farms and such.

Omni · Post by **Omni** » Mon Feb 17, 2020 11:53 pm #543199

I'm neutral on idea itself, but execution is pretty bad, especially on meta. genetics were shoehorned into overly spacious room with zero adjustments, BEPIS and experimentor were shoehorned into shooting range, where genetics used to be in medbay there was morgue that could fit whole crew in and still have space left for over a month. Genetics' brand color weren't changed either. It's bit better on Delta, but not very much...

CDranzer · Post by **CDranzer** » Tue Feb 18, 2020 1:35 am #543232

All Meme Toy Departments belong in science and they always have
Not just Genetics, but also Chemistry and Virology and frankly Botany as well
This is the future, anybody who denies it is a coward

tinodrima7020 · Tue Feb 18, 2020 4:33 am

CDranzer wrote:All Meme Toy Departments belong in science and they always have
Not just Genetics, but also Chemistry and Virology and frankly Botany as well
This is the future, anybody who denies it is a coward

Science Station 13

Post by **Armhulen** » Tue Feb 18, 2020 6:36 am #543281

execution was definitely the worst part of this

afelinidisfinetoo · Mon Feb 24, 2020 1:45 pm

Super Aggro Crag wrote:genetics in science is another case of science department bloat.

Space Station 13 is a research platform.
It's like you're complaining that Star Trek ships don't have enough guns

Post by **Armhulen** » Mon Feb 24, 2020 7:35 pm #545595

afelinidisfinetoo wrote:
Super Aggro Crag wrote:genetics in science is another case of science department bloat.
Space Station 13 is a research platform.
It's like you're complaining that Star Trek ships don't have enough guns

lore shouldn't fuck gameplay, ever.

Timonk · Post by **Timonk** » Mon Feb 24, 2020 8:28 pm #545611

Imagine being so disconnected from the game that you unironically think that chemistry should be in science

XDTM · Post by **XDTM** » Tue Feb 25, 2020 9:53 am #545808

Armhulen wrote:
afelinidisfinetoo wrote:
Super Aggro Crag wrote:genetics in science is another case of science department bloat.
Space Station 13 is a research platform.
It's like you're complaining that Star Trek ships don't have enough guns
lore shouldn't fuck gameplay, ever.

Lore does and should influence gameplay, especially in a roleplaying game. Thankfully our lore is quite fluid so it's almost always possible to make adjustments to make gameplay changes remain fun within its constraints, though.

Tue Feb 25, 2020 6:23 pm

XDTM wrote:
Armhulen wrote:
afelinidisfinetoo wrote:
Super Aggro Crag wrote:genetics in science is another case of science department bloat.
Space Station 13 is a research platform.
It's like you're complaining that Star Trek ships don't have enough guns
lore shouldn't fuck gameplay, ever.
Lore does and should influence gameplay, especially in a roleplaying game. Thankfully our lore is quite fluid so it's almost always possible to make adjustments to make gameplay changes remain fun within its constraints, though.

Lore shouldn't fuck gameplay. If you make the game actively worse because "lore," you can get outta here

Post by **Vekter** » Wed Feb 26, 2020 8:40 am #545989

I'll admit my execution could have been better, but it hasn't seemed to negatively affect anything from what I've seen.

knacker48 · Post by **knacker48** » Wed Feb 26, 2020 12:58 pm #546042

Vekter wrote:I'll admit my execution could have been better, but it hasn't seemed to negatively affect anything from what I've seen.

I feel like the move was mostly neutral if not slightly negative since it removed some options from medbay (monkey cloning and curing mutations) and didn't really gain anything from moving to science. Also the "It's barely tangentially related to medical" wasn't considered a strong argument by most.

You said you had plans on "iterating the science department" and that was the main reason you made the move. Do you think you could elaborate more on what your plans were in the long run? I feel like if people knew why then they would have less misgivings about the whole thing, assuming you had something positive in mind that most people would agree justifies the move.

CDranzer · Post by **CDranzer** » Wed Feb 26, 2020 2:09 pm #546051

Timonk wrote:Imagine being so disconnected from the game that you unironically think that chemistry should be in science

I've said it before and I'll say it again:
Chemicals should be moved into tiers, with tier 1 being the base elements, tier 2 being "component" chems made from mixing base elements, and tier 3 being actual usable things made out of component chems.
Chemistry should have access to basic elements so they can make anything they want, but the pharmacy should have access only to a strictly medical subset of the tier 2 components.
But no I'll just go mix some more multiver I guess