/tg/Station 13

Posted: **Thu Jun 11, 2020 1:29 pm**

Edit: I did find one situation in which I divulged information to a sitting headmin in August of 2019, see this post for details. I apologize to anyone who felt betrayed by that action, and hope that they don't feel that I would do this in spite of them.

Edit2: I added a data security policy as recommended by Sticky to be much more transparent about what information is collected about users, and how it is used, including reporting of misuses of that data. I hope this helps to clarify any future situation or concern. You can see this post for more details

Edit 3: I've put a summary of the actions I've taken as a result of this thread below.

Spoiler:

this is an open letter to atlanta ned, regarding a notice he posted on his website following his resignation today

Hello AtlantaNed,

I noticed that you claim that I provide confidential logging material, used to prevent abuse of my software, to third parties such as headmins and 'other harmful people'. I would request that you provide any evidence of this, because this claim is untrue.

You might recall I mentioned to you in 2019 this very thing when I gave you privileged access to my database. You are, as far as I'm aware, the only person who has ever had access to this information.

I take the protection of end-user data seriously, and admittedly made a mistake in providing you access to this data temporarily as included in the broad privileges you had at the time. I would apologize to anyone who feels uncomfortable to the fact that their actions may have been exposed to AtlantaNed, but I sincerely hope that nobody feels that way.

I'm not sure why you're electing to target me, but I hope you find peace with whatever is going on.

All the best,
bobbahbrown

Posted: **Thu Jun 11, 2020 1:32 pm**

atlanta "baseless claims" ned

Posted: **Thu Jun 11, 2020 1:34 pm**

Posted: **Thu Jun 11, 2020 1:40 pm**

I heard a while ago that you were logging and monitoring who searched for what on scrubby, and at least once you messaged admins to ask about/comment on their scrubby search history, when they didn't even know that was being tracked to begin with. Is there any truth to that?

Posted: **Thu Jun 11, 2020 1:41 pm**

I want to take the politically apt time to point out these kinds of screw-loose admins are the main backers of word police server rules.

Posted: **Thu Jun 11, 2020 1:41 pm**

Adminbus is looking a lot nicer these days.

Posted: **Thu Jun 11, 2020 1:43 pm**

Rodey125 wrote:atlanta "baseless claims" ned

Posted: **Thu Jun 11, 2020 1:46 pm**

Shaps-cloud wrote:I heard a while ago that you were logging and monitoring who searched for what on scrubby, and at least once you messaged admins to ask about/comment on their scrubby search history, when they didn't even know that was being tracked to begin with. Is there any truth to that?

As alluded to in the above post, the search actions are logged on Scrubby's database as they include regular expressions which can potentially be abused to attack my web server with very expensive queries. They also allow me to see and IP ban web spiders which are crawling the website despite my explicit inclusion of robots.txt with a clause to disallow web scraping.

I can provide you a sample below of what that looks like:

I don't remember contacting an administrator about a search they were performing, or something regarding it, but it's not entirely impossible. If the aforementioned individual wouldn't mind speaking up, I don't mind talking about it. I have contacted users in the past if they were running a suspicious query, suspicious in the context of "this looks like they were trying to do something that would impact my servers performance".

Best,
bobbah

Posted: **Thu Jun 11, 2020 1:47 pm**

[youtube]3gPBmDptqlQ[/youtube]

This whole dootdoom thing really created a domino effect, ey?

Posted: **Thu Jun 11, 2020 1:48 pm**

I found both websites useful, oh well

Posted: **Thu Jun 11, 2020 1:51 pm**

Have you ever passed on information about searches conducted on scrubby to other parties?

If so, why?

Is this ever done casually without consideration? e.g. "lol guys check this out sticky has been searching for old erp logs for 4 hours straight"

Posted: **Thu Jun 11, 2020 1:53 pm**

Stickymayhem wrote:Have you ever passed on information about searches conducted on scrubby to other parties?

If so, why?

Is this ever done casually without consideration? e.g. "lol guys check this out sticky has been searching for old erp logs for 4 hours straight"

Again, as far as I am aware I don't believe I have. You can see that information in my original post.

I should clarify that in the case that I'm forgetting something then I most certainly apologize, but I don't believe I've done this.

Posted: **Thu Jun 11, 2020 1:58 pm**

Admins I hope survive this fallout and stay as /tg/ admins: Arm, Coconut Warrior, TheMidnightRose, Virtual John (I just really like their events)

Everyone else: I'm honestly pretty apathetic because maybe our interactions aren't very deep. You can quit or stay I don't really mind you do you

Con of this situation: without the atlantaned station how will admins be held accountable, they can literally turn me into a felinid roundstart and I wont be able to pull up logs! no no no no

Posted: **Thu Jun 11, 2020 2:00 pm**

That is still available in the public logs.
Public logs are published by MSO, not Ned.

Posted: **Thu Jun 11, 2020 2:00 pm**

bobbahbrown wrote:Again, as far as I am aware I don't believe I have. You can see that information in my original post.

I should clarify that in the case that I'm forgetting something then I most certainly apologize, but I don't believe I've done this.

You're completely sure about this? If it did happen it's just slipping your mind?

Posted: **Thu Jun 11, 2020 2:04 pm**

ips should be encrypted and only visible after asking the owner

Posted: **Thu Jun 11, 2020 2:04 pm**

actioninja wrote:
bobbahbrown wrote:Again, as far as I am aware I don't believe I have. You can see that information in my original post.

I should clarify that in the case that I'm forgetting something then I most certainly apologize, but I don't believe I've done this.
You're completely sure about this? If it did happen it's just slipping your mind?

I was able to get clarification on what this situation was that everyone was referring to.

In August of 2019 I divulged information to headmin Hulkamania that, at the time, seemed like it may have been relevant to an ongoing issue. An administrator's account was breached, and I suggested that if it was NecromancerAnne that it may have been Haku who had done it. A user who I assumed was Haku was looking up information about NecromancerAnne approximately two hours prior to the account breach. Prior to this situation, the user had not accessed Scrubby before, and it seemed suspicious to me.

It was later determined that the account that was breached was not NecromancerAnne.

As far as I'm aware that's the only time I've breached the trust between myself and the end-users.

Apologies for anyone effected, but I believe that's the only time.

Best,
Bobbah

Posted: **Thu Jun 11, 2020 2:06 pm**

Yeah I'm pretty sure I remember this

Posted: **Thu Jun 11, 2020 2:39 pm**

Just as a side note to all this, I'm confused as to why Ned is electing to wait until now to attack me about this. If he's genuinely been concerned about this issue, or felt poorly about it, I wish he would have contacted me and explained his concerns instead of adding an easily-accessible link to Scrubby from his website on every round page -- or anyone in the administration for that matter.

I can't help but feel this action is related to recent events, and is not fueled by a genuine concern for /tg/ users.

all the best,
bobbah

Posted: **Thu Jun 11, 2020 3:02 pm**

bobbahbrown wrote:
actioninja wrote:
bobbahbrown wrote:Again, as far as I am aware I don't believe I have. You can see that information in my original post.

I should clarify that in the case that I'm forgetting something then I most certainly apologize, but I don't believe I've done this.
You're completely sure about this? If it did happen it's just slipping your mind?
I was able to get clarification on what this situation was that everyone was referring to.

In August of 2019 I divulged information to headmin Hulkamania that, at the time, seemed like it may have been relevant to an ongoing issue. An administrator's account was breached, and I suggested that if it was NecromancerAnne that it may have been Haku who had done it. A user who I assumed was Haku was looking up information about NecromancerAnne approximately two hours prior to the account breach. Prior to this situation, the user had not accessed Scrubby before, and it seemed suspicious to me.

It was later determined that the account that was breached was not NecromancerAnne.

As far as I'm aware that's the only time I've breached the trust between myself and the end-users.

Apologies for anyone effected, but I believe that's the only time.

Best,
Bobbah

The initiative you took here is a little worrying

Posted: **Thu Jun 11, 2020 3:04 pm**

wesoda25 wrote:
bobbahbrown wrote:<snip>
The initiative you took here is a little worrying

Yes, I can admit very openly that it was a mistake to do so; I had forgotten about that situation as of the time of this post, but rest assured I don't support this behavior in the modern day.

Posted: **Thu Jun 11, 2020 3:14 pm**

That’s reasonable. Thank you bobbah bee brown.

Posted: **Thu Jun 11, 2020 3:24 pm**

Robert "bobbah" Brown is a good bee

Posted: **Thu Jun 11, 2020 3:32 pm**

1. Atlantaned is a bitch for being mad that admins wont listen to him and then attacks one of the least controversial people in this entire community bobbahbrown because ???

2. All the retard cronies of the rainbow gang show up and start piling up on BobbahBrown because they realize "Shit atlantaned doesnt actually have any proof lets just pile on him to try and make him look bad anyways"

God you people are gigantic fags. If you want to harrass someone atleast try to find someone who isn't one of the few positive people in this community. It just makes you guys look like enormous fucking faggots and I hope you all get booted of this community once and for all.

Posted: **Thu Jun 11, 2020 3:37 pm**

Qustinnus wrote:1. Atlantaned is a bitch for being mad that admins wont listen to him and then attacks one of the least controversial people in this entire community bobbahbrown because ???

2. All the retard cronies of the rainbow gang show up and start piling up on BobbahBrown because they realize "Shit atlantaned doesnt actually have any proof lets just pile on him to try and make him look bad anyways"

God you people are gigantic fags. If you want to harrass someone atleast try to find someone who isn't one of the few positive people in this community. It just makes you guys look like enormous fucking faggots and I hope you all get booted of this community once and for all.

as much as I appreciate you defending me there was reason, as seen above, for them to be concerned -- however I hope in explaining what the situation was above in the post I made that its clarified it was a poor choice, but was not done with any intent to harm anyone.

I don't judge anyone for being concerned about their data, they have every right to be, I can only hope to clarify what is and what isn't truthful.

Posted: **Thu Jun 11, 2020 3:42 pm**

It's worth noting that the information Scrubby collects on users is 1) about the same info that literally every website in existence collects on you and 2) already available to any admin whatsoever. Bobbah could not have handed information over to a member of the admin team that wasn't already available to them.

The only info that isn't available to admins is what people are searching for on scrubby but that isn't really that big of a deal? No information is available there that isn't available elsewhere. I imagine bobbah collects it for diagnostic purposes.

tl;dr I'll vouch for him, sure.

Posted: **Thu Jun 11, 2020 3:46 pm**

I think everyone here is operating on partial information and this is the tip of a shitberg so people are naturally uppity

@Vekter I think the point is that there is a potential for abuse by Bobbah, so your opinion on it is going to be based on your opinion of Bobbah.

A simple disclaimer on scrubby explaining explictly how and when data was used would be helpful, including an anonymized log of what happened. e.g "11/06 contacted [REDACTED] due to perceived abuse of API Endpoint" etc.

It's still Bobbah's word but that's the best you're gonna get out of a third-party data handler.

Posted: **Thu Jun 11, 2020 3:46 pm**

bobbahbrown wrote:
Qustinnus wrote:1. Atlantaned is a bitch for being mad that admins wont listen to him and then attacks one of the least controversial people in this entire community bobbahbrown because ???

2. All the retard cronies of the rainbow gang show up and start piling up on BobbahBrown because they realize "Shit atlantaned doesnt actually have any proof lets just pile on him to try and make him look bad anyways"

God you people are gigantic fags. If you want to harrass someone atleast try to find someone who isn't one of the few positive people in this community. It just makes you guys look like enormous fucking faggots and I hope you all get booted of this community once and for all.
as much as I appreciate you defending me there was reason, as seen above, for them to be concerned -- however I hope in explaining what the situation was above in the post I made that its clarified it was a poor choice, but was not done with any intent to harm anyone.

I don't judge anyone for being concerned about their data, they have every right to be, I can only hope to clarify what is and what isn't truthful.

yeah I'm glad you're admitting it wasn't the best way to deal with the situation but my god is that all? Can Ned now give us some proof on the second part: "This information is reported to headmins and other harmful people. I strongly encourage you to not use Scrubby, or trust Bobbah."

Honestly "other harmful people" is what Ned probably calls PKPenguin or one of the other based admins who made fun of his cry-baby shit in admin-bus. Like if you want to go harrass people because your virtue signalling bullshit is not working atleast target someone who is an example of your "hostile, abusive people within this community." instead of piling down on some innocent bee.

Posted: **Thu Jun 11, 2020 3:52 pm**

Stickymayhem wrote:I think everyone here is operating on partial information and this is the tip of a shitberg so people are naturally uppity

@Vekter I think the point is that there is a potential for abuse by Bobbah, so your opinion on it is going to be based on your opinion of Bobbah.

A simple disclaimer on scrubby explaining explictly how and when data was used would be helpful, including an anonymized log of what happened. e.g "11/06 contacted [REDACTED] due to perceived abuse of API Endpoint" etc.

It's still Bobbah's word but that's the best you're gonna get out of a third-party data handler.

the point I'm trying to make is even if he did want to somehow use the info he's got for malicious purposes, there's not much he collects that he can really do anything with.

Posted: **Thu Jun 11, 2020 4:16 pm**

does bobbah sell all ingame voice bomb codes to iran?

Posted: **Thu Jun 11, 2020 4:29 pm**

Stickymayhem wrote:I think everyone here is operating on partial information and this is the tip of a shitberg so people are naturally uppity

@Vekter I think the point is that there is a potential for abuse by Bobbah, so your opinion on it is going to be based on your opinion of Bobbah.

A simple disclaimer on scrubby explaining explictly how and when data was used would be helpful, including an anonymized log of what happened. e.g "11/06 contacted [REDACTED] due to perceived abuse of API Endpoint" etc.

It's still Bobbah's word but that's the best you're gonna get out of a third-party data handler.

Hello,

You will find the new data security policy thread on Scrubby now. Please let me know if you think anything should be added. It's also mentioned explicitly at the bottom of every page.

I'll also note at this point that I've also removed Raygun integration from this commit, which was a free service provided to me from the GitHub Education Pack as a student. It would collect data on application errors, site viewsership (like '2000 new users, 1000 returning users in the past month'), and page response times, but I didn't want to be misunderstood or felt to be collecting too much user experience information so I have removed that entirely, I didn't really take advantage of the information it produced on site performance so not much is lost there. I have deleted the application and all the related data that it has collected from Raygun as of the time of this message.

Best,
bobbah

Posted: **Thu Jun 11, 2020 4:36 pm**

Vekter wrote:It's worth noting that the information Scrubby collects on users is 1) about the same info that literally every website in existence collects on you and 2) already available to any admin whatsoever.

Could you explain a bit more about what information is collected?
Knowing if its monetized or not would be of interest as well.

Posted: **Thu Jun 11, 2020 4:37 pm**

Thanks for the transparency Bobbah.

Would you consider something like a limited timeframe for data retention, like perhaps deleting it after a week, 30 days, 3 months, or something?

Posted: **Thu Jun 11, 2020 4:38 pm**

hamst wrote:
Vekter wrote:It's worth noting that the information Scrubby collects on users is 1) about the same info that literally every website in existence collects on you and 2) already available to any admin whatsoever.
Could you explain a bit more about what information is collected?
Knowing if its monetized or not would be of interest as well.

Hello,

My data security policy page here explains what data is collected, and how it is used.

It is not monetized in any way. Nobody has access to it other than me. The access was not always exclusive to me, as AtlantaNed had access at one point, but it has never and will never be shared with any party for monetization or general exploitation.

Best,
bobbah

Posted: **Thu Jun 11, 2020 4:59 pm**

annoyinggreencatgirl wrote:Thanks for the transparency Bobbah.

Would you consider something like a limited timeframe for data retention, like perhaps deleting it after a week, 30 days, 3 months, or something?

Hello,

I've gone ahead and set the log collection to a capped collection in absence of an ability to clear them by timestamp easily. The cap is set at 2500 logs, after which the oldest will get deleted. This amount is roughly the past 4-5 days of logs.

I've set the data security policy page to update to that, it'll update in a few minutes.

Best,
Bobbah

Posted: **Thu Jun 11, 2020 5:02 pm**

Cool, thanks.

Posted: **Thu Jun 11, 2020 5:19 pm**

Posted: **Thu Jun 11, 2020 5:21 pm**

Atlanta-Ned's message is vague as fuck. "Harmful people"? Something about jcll? I urge Atlanta-Ned to be more specific in message asking me to leave TG because something something privacy.

Posted: **Thu Jun 11, 2020 5:29 pm**

the fact that he wrote "headmins and other harmful people" already makes clear the entirety of the message is him being a crybaby bitch. The headmins are not "harmful people" and if they were then we'd have bigger problems than a website. And secondly if he had any actual evidence besides this baby tier Haku thing he'd post it.

Instead, he's dropping this vague ass message and puts his cronies up to harass bobbah, because thats what people like him do.

Posted: **Thu Jun 11, 2020 5:56 pm**

Qustinnus wrote:the fact that he wrote "headmins and other harmful people" already makes clear the entirety of the message is him being a crybaby bitch. The headmins are not "harmful people" and if they were then we'd have bigger problems than a website. And secondly if he had any actual evidence besides this baby tier Haku thing he'd post it.

Instead, he's dropping this vague ass message and puts his cronies up to harass bobbah, because thats what people like him do.

Or, you know, he's worried about the integrity of the admin team and doesn't want to stick around anymore?

Posted: **Thu Jun 11, 2020 5:58 pm**

FloranOtten wrote:
Qustinnus wrote:the fact that he wrote "headmins and other harmful people" already makes clear the entirety of the message is him being a crybaby bitch. The headmins are not "harmful people" and if they were then we'd have bigger problems than a website. And secondly if he had any actual evidence besides this baby tier Haku thing he'd post it.

Instead, he's dropping this vague ass message and puts his cronies up to harass bobbah, because thats what people like him do.
Or, you know, he's worried about the integrity of the admin team and doesn't want to stick around anymore?

which is why he had to leave a accusatory message about one of the friendliest guys in the community. Thank you Floran for reinforcing my previous messages about cronies (like you)

Posted: **Thu Jun 11, 2020 6:00 pm**

It's very strange to find out people were talking about you while I don't believe I had been contacted whatsoever during any of that incident. Not that I can remember what specifically happened, and I asked Hulkamania what the particular incident was, since I don't remember the specifics. He's not replied yet so big shrug.

Also, I'd honestly argue bobbah's concerns about haku aren't entirely unfounded, though give haku far more credit than he deserves.

Posted: **Thu Jun 11, 2020 6:00 pm**

Admin team has always had about as much integrity as Floyd's stretched O-Ring. Its a server for manchild kindergarten space retard game, not the United Nations Human Rights Tribunal

Posted: **Thu Jun 11, 2020 6:02 pm**

Qustinnus wrote:which is why he had to leave a accusatory message about one of the friendliest guys in the community. Thank you Floran for reinforcing my previous messages about cronies (like you)

I'm just saying that one of these options is a grand conspiracy to harass bobbah, and the other is a guy concerned about something he cares for.

Posted: **Thu Jun 11, 2020 6:11 pm**

FloranOtten wrote:
Qustinnus wrote:which is why he had to leave a accusatory message about one of the friendliest guys in the community. Thank you Floran for reinforcing my previous messages about cronies (like you)
I'm just saying that one of these options is a grand conspiracy to harass bobbah, and the other is a guy concerned about something he cares for.

I don't think its a grand conspiracy to harass bobbah. I think it's atlanta being mad that jcll got fired and thus pulling some fucking unnecesary stunt to make a guy who is not involved with the situation and has zero harmful intent feel bad. If he had just resigned I wouldn't care but instead he goes out of his way to pull someone into this to make them feel like shit.

but its okay, he cared a lot which is all that matters.

Posted: **Thu Jun 11, 2020 6:11 pm**

FloranOtten wrote:
Qustinnus wrote:which is why he had to leave a accusatory message about one of the friendliest guys in the community. Thank you Floran for reinforcing my previous messages about cronies (like you)
I'm just saying that one of these options is a grand conspiracy to harass bobbah, and the other is a guy concerned about something he cares for.

i don't want any drama, and i don't think there's some grand conspiracy -- there is some merit to what was said though i think i never intended anything maliciously

i hope ned and other users who may have been concerned find the changes that i have implemented today to be helpful and more transparent

the reason for my confusion amidst this entire situation can kind of be summed up in this post that i made above: https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic ... 51#p565179

Posted: **Thu Jun 11, 2020 7:12 pm**

im going to lock the thread now because i think ive said everything i can and done everything i can, i don't want anymore drama

feeling kinda cruddy im gonna go back to laying down

/tg/Station 13

Atlanta Ned Resignation Re: scrubbby

Atlanta Ned Resignation Re: scrubbby

Re: Atlanta Ned Resignation Re: scrubbby

Re: Atlanta Ned Resignation Re: scrubbby

Re: Atlanta Ned Resignation Re: scrubbby

Re: Atlanta Ned Resignation Re: scrubbby

Re: Atlanta Ned Resignation Re: scrubbby

Re: Atlanta Ned Resignation Re: scrubbby

Re: Atlanta Ned Resignation Re: scrubbby

Re: Atlanta Ned Resignation Re: scrubbby

Re: Atlanta Ned Resignation Re: scrubbby

Re: Atlanta Ned Resignation Re: scrubbby

Re: Atlanta Ned Resignation Re: scrubbby

Re: Atlanta Ned Resignation Re: scrubbby

Re: Atlanta Ned Resignation Re: scrubbby

Re: Atlanta Ned Resignation Re: scrubbby

Re: Atlanta Ned Resignation Re: scrubbby

Re: Atlanta Ned Resignation Re: scrubbby

Re: Atlanta Ned Resignation Re: scrubbby

Re: Atlanta Ned Resignation Re: scrubbby

Re: Atlanta Ned Resignation Re: scrubbby

Re: Atlanta Ned Resignation Re: scrubbby

Re: Atlanta Ned Resignation Re: scrubbby

Re: Atlanta Ned Resignation Re: scrubbby

Re: Atlanta Ned Resignation Re: scrubbby

Re: Atlanta Ned Resignation Re: scrubbby

Re: Atlanta Ned Resignation Re: scrubbby

Re: Atlanta Ned Resignation Re: scrubbby

Re: Atlanta Ned Resignation Re: scrubbby

Re: Atlanta Ned Resignation Re: scrubbby

Re: Atlanta Ned Resignation Re: scrubbby

Re: Atlanta Ned Resignation Re: scrubbby

Re: Atlanta Ned Resignation Re: scrubbby

Re: Atlanta Ned Resignation Re: scrubbby

Re: Atlanta Ned Resignation Re: scrubbby

Re: Atlanta Ned Resignation Re: scrubbby

Re: Atlanta Ned Resignation Re: scrubbby

Re: Atlanta Ned Resignation Re: scrubbby

Re: Atlanta Ned Resignation Re: scrubbby

Re: Atlanta Ned Resignation Re: scrubbby

Re: Atlanta Ned Resignation Re: scrubbby

Re: Atlanta Ned Resignation Re: scrubbby

Re: Atlanta Ned Resignation Re: scrubbby

Re: Atlanta Ned Resignation Re: scrubbby

Re: Atlanta Ned Resignation Re: scrubbby

Re: Atlanta Ned Resignation Re: scrubbby

Re: Atlanta Ned Resignation Re: scrubbby

Re: Atlanta Ned Resignation Re: scrubbby