Why was round-start RCD removed?

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Helios
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Why was round-start RCD removed?

Post by Helios » #568527

This is something I missed. When and why was it removed?
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Re: Why was round-start RCD removed?

Post by ShibaInuLord » #568528

Muh powergame bad
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Re: Why was round-start RCD removed?

Post by terranaut » #568541

Member when rcd was singleton and a traitor objective? I member
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Re: Why was round-start RCD removed?

Post by cacogen » #568544

I don't know if they were always in the autolathe but they were for a years while it was an objective and the only other source was the one in EVA.

OP, look for the PR on GitHub because I doubt anyone here knows or can articulate it properly.
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Re: Why was round-start RCD removed?

Post by JusticeGoat » #568545

Its nice for when i don't want to spend ten years making new airlocks when a bomb goes off or something.
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Re: Why was round-start RCD removed?

Post by Vekter » #568552

It was removed because it was a traitor objective ages ago. Once it cycled out, it was put back in as round-start and eventually moved to only spawn in the Engineering vendors because they're pretty ridiculously strong early on. They basically make access to anywhere that isn't r-walled a suggestion - you can just RCD down the airlock and waltz in for whatever you want to steal.

There's probably room to discuss making them public again, but you'd have to do something like remove its ability to deconstruct without an upgrade or make doors untouchable if they have access on them.

tl;dr balance
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Re: Why was round-start RCD removed?

Post by pugie » #568553

Vekter wrote:It was removed because it was a traitor objective ages ago. Once it cycled out, it was put back in as round-start and eventually moved to only spawn in the Engineering vendors because they're pretty ridiculously strong early on. They basically make access to anywhere that isn't r-walled a suggestion - you can just RCD down the airlock and waltz in for whatever you want to steal.

There's probably room to discuss making them public again, but you'd have to do something like remove its ability to deconstruct without an upgrade or make doors untouchable if they have access on them.

tl;dr balance
They were made priced in vendors (higher than what anyone in engineering starts with money wise) so that they couldn't be attained roundstart much more recently than they were a traitor objective.
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Re: Why was round-start RCD removed?

Post by terranaut » #568554

screwdriver wirecutter/multi crowbar is all access and arguably faster than rcd while also not being ressource reliant like the rcd why is the door deconning an argument that has any weight whatsoever
"but you need to know the wires" literally just ask on common for the gamer wires and you'll get the test wire and sometimes bolt too
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Re: Why was round-start RCD removed?

Post by SkeletalElite » #568558

remove deconstruct option from RCD and make it an upgrade now that upgrades are a thing. Re add roundstart RCD
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Re: Why was round-start RCD removed?

Post by CPTANT » #568570

SkeletalElite wrote:remove deconstruct option from RCD and make it an upgrade now that upgrades are a thing. Re add roundstart RCD
Shitters now spam every corridor with walls and doors that take ages to remove.
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Re: Why was round-start RCD removed?

Post by JusticeGoat » #568578

SkeletalElite wrote:remove deconstruct option from RCD and make it an upgrade now that upgrades are a thing. Re add roundstart RCD
that would be shit, i argue that with the rcd's being locked behind engineering now its not as abused, and the removal thing takes longer than hacking a door.
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Re: Why was round-start RCD removed?

Post by Helios » #568583

Vekter wrote:It was removed because it was a traitor objective ages ago. Once it cycled out, it was put back in as round-start and eventually moved to only spawn in the Engineering vendors because they're pretty ridiculously strong early on. They basically make access to anywhere that isn't r-walled a suggestion - you can just RCD down the airlock and waltz in for whatever you want to steal.

There's probably room to discuss making them public again, but you'd have to do something like remove its ability to deconstruct without an upgrade or make doors untouchable if they have access on them.

tl;dr balance
Yeah, but EVA having powerful stuff is kind of the point isn't it? It's a place people want to break into because it has good stuff, like people want to break into the teleporter room because the hand tele is ridiculously strong, especially if you don't care about become a fly person
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Re: Why was round-start RCD removed?

Post by cacogen » #568590

I don't know if what Vekter said is accurate but this is the PR that made the change: https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/48482
kriskog wrote:Right. Since RCD's are now in the advanced engineering tech node, I would rather see people print their RCD instead of grabbing a free one from the vendor. That adds some pressure to get the node (its usually grabbed early anyway) and a not insignificant resource cost. Its moved to premium at its old cost of 1700 cr with 2 stock. The EVA RCD has been removed, and replaced with four smart metal foam grenades.
JusticeGoat wrote:Its nice for when i don't want to spend ten years making new airlocks when a bomb goes off or something.
yeah but until somebody properly addresses the issue even with an rcd it's unrealistically time-consuming to rebuild after a sizeable breach
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Re: Why was round-start RCD removed?

Post by Vekter » #568605

Fun fact: Cargo's protolathe can print RCDs.

At least I think it can?
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Re: Why was round-start RCD removed?

Post by oranges » #568606

yeah it can
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Re: Why was round-start RCD removed?

Post by Not-Dorsidarf » #568648

Can RCDs deconstruct rwindows?
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Re: Why was round-start RCD removed?

Post by Agux909 » #568650

Not-Dorsidarf wrote:Can RCDs deconstruct rwindows?
Yes, they can deconstruct EVERYTHING (well, anything that has a construction procedure)
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Re: Why was round-start RCD removed?

Post by SkeletalElite » #568660

Agux909 wrote:
Not-Dorsidarf wrote:Can RCDs deconstruct rwindows?
Yes, they can deconstruct EVERYTHING (well, anything that has a construction procedure)
I'm pretty sure they can't decon R-walls or doors with plasteel reinforcement like vault door round start.
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Re: Why was round-start RCD removed?

Post by Agux909 » #568663

Maybe. I recall an engineer replacing that one by deconstructing it but maybe it was mid-way or completely hacked into.

Anyway, its a potent tool and it shouldnt be obtained easily
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Re: Why was round-start RCD removed?

Post by cacogen » #569239

any atom can have an rcd_act, a lot of things that should don't unfortunately
they aren't hard to add
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Re: Why was round-start RCD removed?

Post by SkeletalElite » #569586

CPTANT wrote:
SkeletalElite wrote:remove deconstruct option from RCD and make it an upgrade now that upgrades are a thing. Re add roundstart RCD
Shitters now spam every corridor with walls and doors that take ages to remove.
I know im a bit late on the response but

Hallway walling is already a thing.
And if someone is really dedicated to be as annoying as possible it isn't that hard to get some stuff for R walls which take far longer to take apart then they do to make and has a lot less time investment that filling the halls with tons of regular walls. In fact if someone wanted to be as annoying as possible with an RCD, they'd probably fill hallways with R windows, which would be actually be harder for the average joe to get through then a regular wall.
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Re: Why was round-start RCD removed?

Post by Countrygal68 » #569589

terranaut wrote:screwdriver wirecutter/multi crowbar is all access and arguably faster than rcd while also not being ressource reliant like the rcd why is the door deconning an argument that has any weight whatsoever
"but you need to know the wires" literally just ask on common for the gamer wires and you'll get the test wire and sometimes bolt too
At the very least this strategy requires you to gather the full toolset as opposed to the RCD being a free roundstart all-in-one.

That and the RCD encompasses so much more than getting through doors; you can also fuck with directional access, decon walls in a jiffy, and do a number of sneaky things. All that makes the RCD more desirable than a simple set of tools.
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Re: Why was round-start RCD removed?

Post by saprasam » #569626

one time i got a christmas present from the tree and it was an admin rcd but not in the way i expected as it still required energy
i foolishly powered it and clicked on an airlock to deconstruct it
the server crashed
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Re: Why was round-start RCD removed?

Post by Not-Dorsidarf » #569636

Countrygal68 wrote:
terranaut wrote:screwdriver wirecutter/multi crowbar is all access and arguably faster than rcd while also not being ressource reliant like the rcd why is the door deconning an argument that has any weight whatsoever
"but you need to know the wires" literally just ask on common for the gamer wires and you'll get the test wire and sometimes bolt too
At the very least this strategy requires you to gather the full toolset as opposed to the RCD being a free roundstart all-in-one.

That and the RCD encompasses so much more than getting through doors; you can also fuck with directional access, decon walls in a jiffy, and do a number of sneaky things. All that makes the RCD more desirable than a simple set of tools.
Yeah but A) RCD uses very expensive fuel (its what, 30 sheets of iron's worth per door deconstruction?) so calling it free is unfair and B) those "full toolsets" are literally everywhere scattered all across the station both individually and as sets
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kieth4 wrote: infrequently shitting yourself is fine imo
There is a lot of very bizarre nonsense being talked on this forum. I shall now remain silent and logoff until my points are vindicated.
Player who complainted over being killed for looting cap office wrote: Sun Jul 30, 2023 1:33 am Hey there, I'm Virescent, the super evil person who made the stupid appeal and didn't think it through enough. Just came here to say: screech, retards. Screech and writhe like the worms you are. Your pathetic little cries will keep echoing around for a while before quietting down. There is one great outcome from this: I rised up the blood pressure of some of you shitheads and lowered your lifespan. I'm honestly tempted to do this more often just to see you screech and writhe more, but that wouldn't be cool of me. So come on haters, show me some more of your high blood pressure please. 🖕🖕🖕
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Re: Why was round-start RCD removed?

Post by Vekter » #569637

SkeletalElite wrote:
Agux909 wrote:
Not-Dorsidarf wrote:Can RCDs deconstruct rwindows?
Yes, they can deconstruct EVERYTHING (well, anything that has a construction procedure)
I'm pretty sure they can't decon R-walls or doors with plasteel reinforcement like vault door round start.
This. They also cannot decon r-windows.
SkeletalElite wrote:
I know im a bit late on the response but

Hallway walling is already a thing.
And if someone is really dedicated to be as annoying as possible it isn't that hard to get some stuff for R walls which take far longer to take apart then they do to make and has a lot less time investment that filling the halls with tons of regular walls. In fact if someone wanted to be as annoying as possible with an RCD, they'd probably fill hallways with R windows, which would be actually be harder for the average joe to get through then a regular wall.
I can't speak for other admins but I could and would clap someone's cheeks for doing this.
Not-Dorsidarf wrote:Yeah but A) RCD uses very expensive fuel (its what, 30 sheets of iron's worth per door deconstruction?) so calling it free is unfair and B) those "full toolsets" are literally everywhere scattered all across the station both individually and as sets
The issue has nothing to do with the fuel or ease of access, it's the speed and removal of risk. Hacking at least sometimes shocks your ass.
AliasTakuto wrote: Thu Jan 04, 2024 1:11 pm As for the ear replacing stuff, you can ask Anne but I don't think this is what I was banned for. If I was all I can say is "Sorry for being hilarious"...
Omega_DarkPotato wrote:This sucks, dude.
Spoiler:
Reply PM from-REDACTED/(REDACTED): i tried to remove the bruises by changing her gender

PM: Bluespace->Delaron: Nobody wants a mime's asscheeks farting on their brig windows.

PM: REDACTED->HotelBravoLima: Oh come on, knowing that these are hostile aliens is metagaming

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Re: Why was round-start RCD removed?

Post by Helios » #569639

It can Vekter, but you're looking as the game as it aught to be played instead of how it is
Wires are regularly called on the radio, or by PDA at the start of a round, removing risk or the requirement for insulated gloves to hack
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Re: Why was round-start RCD removed?

Post by NecromancerAnne » #569643

Well most of the time only one set of test wires are found. So usually a way in is not a way out without insuls.
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Re: Why was round-start RCD removed?

Post by Helios » #569650

NecromancerAnne wrote:Well most of the time only one set of test wires are found. So usually a way in is not a way out without insuls.
I suppose, but a large amount of departments and rooms have disposal bins. And if you disposal yourself you won't get trapped.
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Re: Why was round-start RCD removed?

Post by Timonk » #569655

i once disposaled myself as traitor and fell right into another disposal trap that a traitor made. AI laughed at me.
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