Sportsmanship

[RaveRadbury]

What is sportsmanship in SS13?

When has sportsmanship been shown to you during a round?

When have you shown sportsmanship during a round?

What does it look like to give someone a sporting chance during a round?

[Bluedazzled]

when the sec doesnt kill you the second you are found to be an antag

[BorisvcBorison]

Sportsmanship is weakness

do drugs and crime

[cacogen]

when the sec doesnt kill you the second you are found to be an antag

The security metafriends on Manuel have the chief goals of denial of greentext and antag round removal. It's as though they don't see antags as players playing a role but a threat to their interactions with their metafriends and the chatroom that server is in general. They should have to take antags alive if possible, at least. I don't think they should have knowledge of their mechanics, either.

[Farquaar]

Good Sportsmanship
- Don't whine when you die
(Unless it's to a powergamer. Screw those guys)
- Don't swear revenge when somebody says something mean to you
(RP takes many forms, dummy. I'm looking at you, felinid players)
- Don't do metagangs
(Even if advantageous, new players have a high barrier to entry as it is)

[The security metafriends on Manuel have the chief goals of denial of greentext and antag round removal. It's as though they don't see antags as players playing a role but a threat to their interactions with their metafriends and the chatroom that server is in general. They should have to take antags alive if possible, at least. I don't think they should have knowledge of their mechanics, either.

My experience on Manuel has been the opposite. I've seen way too many confirmed antags given parole "because they haven't hurt anyone yet" without so much as a temporary brig sentence.

[imsxz]

disclaimer: i do not view myself as a good sportsman

IMO a good sport in ss13 is someone who (in reasonable circumstances*) gives their opponent an opportunity to react, or chooses to not take an advantage in the interest in other players having fun, usually at their own expense/disadvantage.

examples:
-on blue alert, a security officer sees an unknown person around a maintenance door, and attempts to question them before maybe searching
-an antagonist killed someone out of necessity, and doesnt go out of their way to prevent the person from being revived(hiding the body in nearby lockers can be fine)
-permabrigging antags instead of executing when reasonable, attenpting to deconvert cultists instead of executing when reasonable, putting dangerous evidence in the evidence locker/destroying it
-using the brig morgue instead of spacing/cremating/etc as security
-assistants with sunglasses, gasmask, insulated gloves, and personal defense weaponry (3 or more) are NOT sportsmanlike
-letting security do their job
-letting other people do their own jobs in general(NO moonlighting!!)
-opting to allow people back into the round in general, regardless of role
-intentionally attacking people while they're typing is NOT sportsmanlike
-not stocking up on "gear" unless it makes sense for your job or the situation(its reasonable to get a flash when the borgs are evil)

the above are just examples. im sure i could come up with more that fit my view if i tried. if you are a tryhard/powergamer and would like to try being sportsmanlike, try some of the above, you wont feel bad when you died because you know you did the right thing

*by reasonable circumstances i mean i dont expect security to try and talk to cultists while theyve got a halo over their head, nor do i expect people to wait for medbay to open up during a nuclear emergency. thats the hard part about defining something like sportsmanship, a lot of it comes down to circumstances. you're a pretty bad sport if you kill an antag and space him after randomly stealing his unlocked PDA. you arent a bad sport if you kill an antag and space him after hes killed 90% of the station.

p.s. the difference between a good sport and an unskilled player is that a good sport consciously recognizes when they're choosing the "worse" choice for winning in the interest of letting others enjoy the game.

[Pandarsenic]

Pretty much what imsxz said, I suppose.

At a meta level, I would define sportsmanship as acknowledging that everyone is playing one game and taking actions that don't just recognize but uplift the ability of others to participate in that game.

So breaking into R&D to print a research console and research stuff you want to see is generally a dick move/antisocial if there is actual science staff in the round, whereas it's neutral or even benevolent if there are no science staff and the miner is crying for someone to get him the goddamn Industrial Tech line. Same for breaking in to print stuff from the science protolathe if you can just ask someone, but if science refuses to even take the question of if you can have stuff, I feel it's kind of on them? I don't know. Everything's complicated and contextual basically.

[Rageguy505]

I showed up late on rev round as a sec officer and a rev stunned and cuffed me. They let me go when i said i just got here.

[Jonathan Gupta]

the above are just examples. im sure i could come up with more that fit my view if i tried. if you are a tryhard/powergamer and would like to try being sportsmanlike, try some of the above, you wont feel bad when you died because you know you did the right thing

nah. Being a tider is fun I shall never stop tiding for my toolbox god.

[sinfulbliss]

On LRP here are some unwritten sportsmanship rules IMO:

1. If you kill someone in an RDM, bring them to be revived

2. Don't strip and steal from people with souls (ESPECIALLY their ID)

3. Don't decapitate/hide players you kill unless they are a target

4. Be kind to players you're about to remove from the round

5. Don't tide when the station is in imminent danger

6. If you see someone being murdered/dying, intervene and help

7. Avoid stealing cherished items from players (cap sabre, HoS shield, assistant regal pipegun...)

8. Never attack someone right after they uncuff you

9. The player(s) that stop the antag gets their gear

10. Avoid arresting nonantags who aren't directly harming

11. Keep nonantags/tiders in the brig for as little time as possible

12. NEVER conduct a random search

----

One of my best experiences with sportsmanship was on Manuel. I was antag and stole a ton of gear, had tot items, and tried to murder a seccie. They critted me and revived me. Then I tried to murder them and the captain. The captain critted me and revived me, and released me with all my gear. I then broke into armory and grabbed a bunch of guns. I finally nearly killed them until the same seccie saved them. Instead of executing me, the cap cuffed me and appointed me as his "soldier," dragging me around for a while before I eventually escaped. His rationale was he wanted the chaos.

What I learned was, you should think about giving antags another chance if there is chaos missing from the round. If you have a 10-person sec team and you catch a heretic shiftstart with his book out, it might be more fun for everyone (and even for you!) if you just let him go.

[Jonathan Gupta]

2. Don't strip and steal from people with souls (ESPECIALLY their ID)

I ALWAYS TAKE PEOPLES SHIT WHEN THEY DIE! ESPECIALLY THE DAMN ID!!!!

[sinfulbliss]

2. Don't strip and steal from people with souls (ESPECIALLY their ID)

I ALWAYS TAKE PEOPLES SHIT WHEN THEY DIE! ESPECIALLY THE DAMN ID!!!!

If they have little hope of being revived, sure. But if they have good chances of coming back, not having your bag or clothes or ID really sucks.

[Jonathan Gupta]

2. Don't strip and steal from people with souls (ESPECIALLY their ID)

I ALWAYS TAKE PEOPLES SHIT WHEN THEY DIE! ESPECIALLY THE DAMN ID!!!!

If they have little hope of being revived, sure. But if they have good chances of coming back, not having your bag or clothes or ID really sucks.

what can I say expect to come and fucking get it.

[sinfulbliss]

2. Don't strip and steal from people with souls (ESPECIALLY their ID)

I ALWAYS TAKE PEOPLES SHIT WHEN THEY DIE! ESPECIALLY THE DAMN ID!!!!

If they have little hope of being revived, sure. But if they have good chances of coming back, not having your bag or clothes or ID really sucks.

what can I say expect to come and fucking get it.

I fuckin will pussy I will check my recording to remember who looted me and then hunt for them the rest of the round until I kill them. I will eat the bwoink and explain calmly to the admin who will agree.

Actually I think all the rules can just be summed up by: '

Do what increases the net enjoyment of the round.

So yeah, killing tots as sec can be great since you save maybe dozens from round removal, but it can also suck if it creates a boring round. Very situational.

[cocothegogo]

sportsmanship is gone in ss13. sec will just gib you and take you out the round for being a traitor. long gone are the days of being permad. defund sec

[Shad0k]

Two of those are server rules, not sportsmanship.

1. If you kill someone in an RDM, bring them to be revived

"If you are the instigator in a conflict and end up killing or severely impairing the round of the person you are fighting, you should make a reasonable effort to return them to life at least once or make amends, only seeking round removal if they continue to pursue you."

12. NEVER conduct a random search

That's already forbidden, but it looks like this isn't on the rules page. Huh.
Guess that falls under rule 2 (metagaming, or why atmos techs can't make atmos AI-proof at roundstart) and "Non-antagonists can do whatever they want to antagonists as per lone antagonists, but non-antagonists are not allowed to pre-emptively search for, hinder or otherwise seek conflict with antagonists without reasonable prior cause."

[Omega_DarkPotato]

being a good sport isn't just about combat yknow
be nice to new players, trying to interact or de-escalate conflict verbally, being open to teaching new folks

all that's sportsmanship
If I see someone marked as "intern" on their IDs thanks to the new feature about people with less than 20 hours of playtime being counted as an intern I'll try to go out of my way to give em help.


I appreciate the people who are willing to go out on a limb or take a chance or take the time to speak with me or to other people instead of rushing head-first into combat.


as for "showing sportsmanship" in a round, the biggest moment I can think of was when I was a target of a heretic - he whipped out his funny knife and started hitting me, but I quickly explained that I just wanted to cure a nasty virus that was going around and that I'd let him kill me after I made the cure
surprisingly enough, he stopped, let me make the cure into pills, distribute em, and then I went back to him and just stood still while he filleted me.
He could've killed me right there and not taken the chance to let someone literally get away and alert his heretic status to everyone else, but he trusted me for whatever reason. Good dude.

[Shad0k]

Had a similar story happen to me. I was building an aux mining base when a tot with murder gear hacked the door open. He stopped to look at my base, said I was his target but that my base was great and asked me to suicide before round end. I did, because he was a cool dude.

[Ziiro]

things

This is a very good list, and the only asterisk I would put on most of these is "Unless that player has a history of being a dick to people." Like if someone watches me die without helping, I sure as shit will not do anything for them when that situation is reversed.

Also imsxz's list is pretty good, except for

-letting other people do their own jobs in general(NO moonlighting!!)

I wouldn't have to do people's jobs for them if they were actually doing them. I don't mean "I'm new, how do I do this?" (I'm happy to teach!), I mean not doing R&D despite the fact I know they know how

[Stickymayhem]

i think its dead to be honest

at this point the best you can hope for is that the absolute slightest transgression doesn't begin a back and forth escalation to the death

[Jonathan Gupta]

i think its dead to be honest

at this point the best you can hope for is that the absolute slightest transgression doesn't begin a back and forth escalation to the death

truely.

[RaveRadbury]

i think its dead to be honest
at this point the best you can hope for is that the absolute slightest transgression doesn't begin a back and forth escalation to the death

truely.

the above are just examples. im sure i could come up with more that fit my view if i tried. if you are a tryhard/powergamer and would like to try being sportsmanlike, try some of the above, you wont feel bad when you died because you know you did the right thing

nah. Being a tider is fun I shall never stop tiding for my toolbox god.

2. Don't strip and steal from people with souls (ESPECIALLY their ID)

I ALWAYS TAKE PEOPLES SHIT WHEN THEY DIE! ESPECIALLY THE DAMN ID!!!!

Honestly man I'm kinda disappointed that you'd take these stances given how pleasant you are on the forums. To call sportsmanship dead when you're not heeding the advice of your fellow players is just... idk man

Please think about being a kinder player. We're all here to have fun, right?

[Jonathan Gupta]

i think its dead to be honest
at this point the best you can hope for is that the absolute slightest transgression doesn't begin a back and forth escalation to the death

truely.

the above are just examples. im sure i could come up with more that fit my view if i tried. if you are a tryhard/powergamer and would like to try being sportsmanlike, try some of the above, you wont feel bad when you died because you know you did the right thing

nah. Being a tider is fun I shall never stop tiding for my toolbox god.

2. Don't strip and steal from people with souls (ESPECIALLY their ID)

I ALWAYS TAKE PEOPLES SHIT WHEN THEY DIE! ESPECIALLY THE DAMN ID!!!!

Honestly man I'm kinda disappointed that you'd take these stances given how pleasant you are on the forums. To call sportsmanship dead when you're not heeding the advice of your fellow players is just... idk man

Please think about being a kinder player. We're all here to have fun, right?

I'm... A good person to talk to? This makes me relive my thoughts as a autist who nobody talks to I only have a few friends who I talk to in my life. This makes me grin from ear to ear I shall rethink my rule 1 no dickery.

[Jonathan Gupta]

sneezed twice a cute girl must be talking about me

[PKPenguin321]

Doing things that make the overall story of the round more interesting, even when it is not in your best personal interest, would be sportsmanship in my book

[imsxz]

things

This is a very good list, and the only asterisk I would put on most of these is "Unless that player has a history of being a dick to people." Like if someone watches me die without helping, I sure as shit will not do anything for them when that situation is reversed.

Also imsxz's list is pretty good, except for

-letting other people do their own jobs in general(NO moonlighting!!)

I wouldn't have to do people's jobs for them if they were actually doing them. I don't mean "I'm new, how do I do this?" (I'm happy to teach!), I mean not doing R&D despite the fact I know they know how

i meant like barging in when theyre doing it and shove them aside. doing science because the scientists are missing is definitely reasonable. the "no moonlighting" thing is from an old forum thread by a troubled man

[Pandarsenic]

I have a weird relationship with corpse-looting.

Since I usually am playing Assistant if I'm a role that can loot corpses at all, and if an assistant has a chance to loot bodies instead of getting shooed by sec/medical for being a shitter it means the round is probably out of hand already, I am not against picking up their IDs, getting cool stuff from their departments, hitting their protolathes, etc., and then trying to get their ID back to them either before or right after they're revived. Or if medical surprises me, as soon as they ask where their ID is on radio I apologize and run it back.

Since I uuuusually run on Sybil, I have very little faith in medical to actually get shit done on their own power, so if the person is still dead by the time I'm back, that's also time to consider raiding med's protolathe for surgery tools to fix the dead myself. (Pro tide tip: Wear a bedsheet as a cape and you can start a surgery without needing chemists to actually make plastic for the protolathe networks so you can print surgical drapes, and all without spending a significant inventory slot).

I really do wish the permabrig and offering cyborgization to antags were more the norm. It's kind of ehhh to get beaten to death in maint after being searched for being wrong-place-wrong-time and stuffed in a locker before you even did anything other than spend your TCs.

[chocolate_bickie]

Dictionary definition of sportsmanship;
Fair and generous behaviour or treatment of others, especially in a sporting contest

From this we can infer two things;
1. It applies only during a contest, such as combat
2. It involves giving your opponent a fighting chance

Tbh, the way combat currently works giving anyone a 'fair chance' is liable to get you beaten. Most antags are designed to hit hard, fast and quietly which strips the game of any chance for sportsmanship.

[Farquaar]

i think its dead to be honest
at this point the best you can hope for is that the absolute slightest transgression doesn't begin a back and forth escalation to the death

truely.

the above are just examples. im sure i could come up with more that fit my view if i tried. if you are a tryhard/powergamer and would like to try being sportsmanlike, try some of the above, you wont feel bad when you died because you know you did the right thing

nah. Being a tider is fun I shall never stop tiding for my toolbox god.

2. Don't strip and steal from people with souls (ESPECIALLY their ID)

I ALWAYS TAKE PEOPLES SHIT WHEN THEY DIE! ESPECIALLY THE DAMN ID!!!!

Honestly man I'm kinda disappointed that you'd take these stances given how pleasant you are on the forums. To call sportsmanship dead when you're not heeding the advice of your fellow players is just... idk man

Please think about being a kinder player. We're all here to have fun, right?

Some light tiding is an important part of the game. Imagine how hard it would be to play antag if non-antags weren't expected to engage in some light grief every once and a while. You'd get the book thrown at you at the drop of a hat.

[Omega_DarkPotato]

Dictionary definition of sportsmanship;
Fair and generous behaviour or treatment of others, especially in a sporting contest

From this we can infer two things;
1. It applies only during a contest, such as combat
2. It involves giving your opponent a fighting chance

Tbh, the way combat currently works giving anyone a 'fair chance' is liable to get you beaten. Most antags are designed to hit hard, fast and quietly which strips the game of any chance for sportsmanship.

>fair and generous behaviour or treatment of others, especially in a sporting contest
>it applies only during a contest such as combat


especially does not mean only.

[Bawhoppennn]

800% agree with PKP.

I've always viewed SS13 rounds as being a story, and you want to work together to create a good story.
That doesn't mean everyone will win or survive as their character, but contributing to creating that story, and the conflict/thrills/weight/intrigue/emotions/everything else within, and being willing to sacrifice your own interests for that larger story, is what I'd say good sportsmanship looks like. Things like, someone tells an obvious lie to get away with something, as you know as a player it's obviously not true, but like in a cartoon, your IC character may believe it- choosing to do things like, that since they help make stories wayyy more interesting.

[Jonathan Gupta]

800% agree with PKP.

I've always viewed SS13 rounds as being a story, and you want to work together to create a good story.
That doesn't mean everyone will win or survive as their character, but contributing to creating that story, and the conflict/thrills/weight/intrigue/emotions/everything else within, and being willing to sacrifice your own interests for that larger story, is what I'd say good sportsmanship looks like. Things like, someone tells an obvious lie to get away with something, as you know as a player it's obviously not true, but like in a cartoon, your IC character may believe it- choosing to do things like, that since they help make stories wayyy more interesting.

I never thought of it that way, I may be able to tolerate rp if I think of it like that. TIme to play skyrat!!!!

[Rohen_Tahir]

Dictionary definition of sportsmanship;
Fair and generous behaviour or treatment of others, especially in a sporting contest

From this we can infer two things;
1. It applies only during a contest, such as combat
2. It involves giving your opponent a fighting chance

Tbh, the way combat currently works giving anyone a 'fair chance' is liable to get you beaten. Most antags are designed to hit hard, fast and quietly which strips the game of any chance for sportsmanship.

>fair and generous behaviour or treatment of others, especially in a sporting contest
>it applies only during a contest such as combat


especially does not mean only.

What is sportsmanship in bar RP?

When has sportsmanship been shown to you during bar RP?

When have you shown sportsmanship during bar RP?

What does it look like to give someone a sporting chance during bar RP?

[Jonathan Gupta]

What does it look like to give someone a sporting chance during bar RP?

not breaking a bottle over your fucking head.

[sinfulbliss]

Doing things that make the overall story of the round more interesting, even when it is not in your best personal interest, would be sportsmanship in my book

This is definitely a good one. That said I find it a rare round that will lead to that. That may just be because HoS doesn't allow for a lot of wiggle-room though. Especially if you play lots of rounds, it's more of a shift than a story. The rounds that end up becoming stories are always the memorable ones.

[Jonathan Gupta]

Doing things that make the overall story of the round more interesting, even when it is not in your best personal interest, would be sportsmanship in my book

This is definitely a good one. That said I find it a rare round that will lead to that. That may just be because Hos doesn't allow for a lot of wiggle-room though. Especially if you play lots of rounds, it's more of a shift than a story. The rounds that end up becoming stories are always the memorable ones.

play bartender or be a chef, you can alter rounds easy.

[sinfulbliss]

Doing things that make the overall story of the round more interesting, even when it is not in your best personal interest, would be sportsmanship in my book

This is definitely a good one. That said I find it a rare round that will lead to that. That may just be because Hos doesn't allow for a lot of wiggle-room though. Especially if you play lots of rounds, it's more of a shift than a story. The rounds that end up becoming stories are always the memorable ones.

play bartender or be a chef, you can alter rounds easy.

Two different senses of alter, I'd say. If you kill 2 nukies then you'll definitely be altering the round, but not in a really unique way. Nukies win nukies lose, it's fairly common. Desworders get stopped, they murderbone whole station, all fairly common. But having some unique story sprout from a round can't really be forced in the same way you can force mechanics. It sort of has to happen organically.

My first role was barkeep and I don't remember many super memorable moments, usually there's not a lot of action in the bar. It might be just permanent gamerbrain-damage from hundreds of sec rounds though.

[PKPenguin321]

I've got a number of examples of sportsmanship like I described. A while ago I was put in perma as a non-antag for starting a protest (well, more for escaping prison multiple times during my short protest-related prison stay). Most of sec was very incompetent that round (which enabled my daring escapes), and that trend continued into perma when they left me my toolbelt. I quickly hid it in one of the perma cells, right as a lizard sec player walked in. This lizard was clearly more competent than the others, and knew I was up to something, so he declared that he would begin searching the cells, something he did not need to do. Then he allowed himself to be distracted by my fast-talking, something he could have easily ignored. Then when I punched my fellow perma prisoner who predictably retaliated violently with a weapon, the lizard sec officer was quick to drop what he was doing and stop the other prisoner from killing me. At that point he took the other prisoner away to be isolated from me (on order from the HoS who had just walked in) which gave me a large enough window to slip out with the tools (and coincidentally he was accidentally crushed into gibs by the elevator along with the other prisoner on his way out which notably widened my window). I actually have a clip of this, note that the HoS had no idea about the toolbelt so his survival ultimately did not mean a lot.

I am certain that that lizard sec officer pretty much knew what I had going on and decided consciously to give me a chance to stop it. My previous escapes were entertaining and gave sec something to do, creating a fun story for them, and the lizard officer decided that not immediately shutting that down would be more interesting in the long run even if that went against his role. The way he did it was slick, in that he didn't outright say "eh just keep the toolbelt I don't care." He even searched some of the (wrong) cells before I was able to fully distract him, and I bet if he had actually found the belt in one of them he would have taken it. That lizard officer was a really swell fella and the round was have been MUCH less interesting had I simply had to sit with my thumb up my ass in the permabrig for the rest of it. Shoutouts to that lizard

[Jonathan Gupta]

I'm going to find the round logs for this before I explain the story, Give me 10 minutes.

[Jonathan Gupta]

https://scrubby.melonmesa.com/round/157 ... e=game.txt
this whole round I was attacking people and shit
https://scrubby.melonmesa.com/round/157 ... attack.txt

search gupta. Best round ever due to admemes continuously supporting me. He spawned in a hat for me!!!!

[TheFinalPotato]

Doing things that make the overall story of the round more interesting, even when it is not in your best personal interest, would be sportsmanship in my book

Should put some variety of this on the wiki's guide to new players, to set the tone. VG has an improv guide, always thought that was a good touch