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Metagangs, Metafamilies, Opinion thread
Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2021 8:41 pm
by Tearling
What is everyone's opinion on metagangs? Although it's mostly a meme there are some examples of metafamilies (for example in the case of the LI family on manuel.)
Is it roleplay+? Is it metacringe?
Bonus Points: If you have any metagang ideas, go ahead and post them.
Re: Metagangs, Metafamilies, Opinion thread
Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2021 8:44 pm
by GreenKnight2903
as long as it's not like sharing current round info and excluding other players I don't see an issue but of course, I am biased.
Re: Metagangs, Metafamilies, Opinion thread
Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2021 8:52 pm
by Rhials
I think metafamilies are great because having the same last name gives a quick, easy identifier on who I should never associate with.
As for metagangs, you might want to correct me if I'm wrong but that's distinctly against the rules. Metafamilies are mostly just metagangs with an extra coat of paint. See above post.
Re: Metagangs, Metafamilies, Opinion thread
Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2021 9:21 pm
by Tearling
Rhials wrote:I think metafamilies are great because having the same last name gives a quick, easy identifier on who I should never associate with.
As for metagangs, you might want to correct me if I'm wrong but that's distinctly against the rules. Metafamilies are mostly just metagangs with an extra coat of paint. See above post.
By metagangs I mean meta roleplay groups, not meta comm groups. As far as I know so long as there are no meta comms IC relationships are allowed, but meta groups are an unknown area not mentioned in the rules whatsoever. If someone knows about a policy which goes further on it that I haven't seen I'd like to know.
Re: Metagangs, Metafamilies, Opinion thread
Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2021 9:22 pm
by dendydoom
In my opinion the game functions best when there is a healthy dose of paranoia against everyone around you, even your friends. If people are utilizing their OOC friendships in such a way that they're never a threat to each other ICly even when they're antagonists, then that's an issue.
Re: Metagangs, Metafamilies, Opinion thread
Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2021 9:33 pm
by Farquaar
They're as bad as metagrudges, if not worse. They should be discouraged through the code and rules whenever possible.
Re: Metagangs, Metafamilies, Opinion thread
Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2021 10:03 pm
by Agux909
They're as good as top bar rp, if not better. They should be encouraged through good faith and wholeheartedly whenever possible.
Re: Metagangs, Metafamilies, Opinion thread
Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2021 10:07 pm
by wesoda25
Metagangs and friendships are really fun when you find yourself in them, and frustrating and alienating when you’re outside. As time passes I find they definitely have a diminished attraction for me, which is mostly what lead me to playing a variety of characters. I currently find approaching the game without any relationships to serve as crutches or handicaps provides a truer and more rewarding experience, and think metagangs have a lot of unhealthy attributes to them. Still, I try and not begrudge those in them too much, since they’re fun and I don’t exactly have much ground to stand on.
Families are cool provided they don’t stray into the territory of unfair advantages or whatever.
Re: Metagangs, Metafamilies, Opinion thread
Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2021 11:01 pm
by Tearling
Farquaar wrote:They're as bad as metagrudges, if not worse. They should be discouraged through the code and rules whenever possible.
Could you deliberate further as to why you think they're as bad as metagrudges? I'm not asking for a "gotcha" type question,
I'm asking because I'm putting together a personal list of pros and cons of meta friends/gangs/families.
Re: Metagangs, Metafamilies, Opinion thread
Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2021 1:30 am
by Farquaar
Tearling wrote:Farquaar wrote:They're as bad as metagrudges, if not worse. They should be discouraged through the code and rules whenever possible.
Could you deliberate further as to why you think they're as bad as metagrudges? I'm not asking for a "gotcha" type question,
I'm asking because I'm putting together a personal list of pros and cons of meta friends/gangs/families.
The fundamental problem is as wesoda described. They're incredibly frustrating to deal with when you're not in the meta-circle. It's frustrating to be the victim of a serious crime, only to hear from security that the perp "isn't like that" or "isn't the type to do something like that". It's frustrating to see metafriends back up incredibly flimsy escalation because they assume, OOC, that their friend is obviously in the right. It's frustrating to have a superior officer pull rank on you to do a favour for their metafriend (i.e. give them additional access) without any reason beyond "they're a chill person". In-game, people should be judged by their actions, not by whether you play Vermintide with them on the weekends.
Re: Metagangs, Metafamilies, Opinion thread
Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2021 1:53 am
by nianjiilical
Farquaar wrote:They're as bad as metagrudges, if not worse. They should be discouraged through the code and rules whenever possible.
how do you add a code solution to "people having friends"
Re: Metagangs, Metafamilies, Opinion thread
Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2021 2:16 am
by sinfulbliss
If you play the game long enough, you begin to recognize certain people, become familiar with certain people, and just make friends. I think that's one of the most rewarding parts about the game. It's more fun when you know the people playing along with you - but that's every game, right?
It's up to us as players to make sure that doesn't result in unfair treatment. I also agree with Wesoda - new players might feel excluded, to some degree, by not having any friends when they first join a server. But most of the players I know would be open and welcoming to them. You can make friends with someone in a single round, even. As the noobie plays more, he will integrate more with the community of players and feel more at home. This applies even to veterans that come back after a long time away. I felt very out of place when I came back since I recognized maybe 1-2 names. But over time I played more and started to become familiar with more people, and the game was a lot more fun after that. Probably what I miss most in my time away from TG are the people I played with in the servers.
Certain problems are introduced, of course. Players remember the things people do round after round. If someone is known to be a very nice player and trustworthy, then someone might trust them with something they wouldn't trust someone else with. That could be seen as an unfair advantage. I've seen captains give AA or the disk to certain players just because they know the player is trustworthy/robust from their past experience with them. I recall a round a captain tried to give me the spare as a sec officer simply because I helped him out in previous rounds. I denied it, and I'm sure most players would operate in good faith to ensure their relationships don't create unfair advantages - both for others and for themselves.
Likewise if someone is known to be a serial shitter and an asshole, then people will not be as receptive and welcoming to them in future rounds. Subtle "metagrudging" could occur then, where a doctor might simply choose not to revive them over someone else, or where they may be excluded from little games the crew plays. I'm not sure there is a good way to combat this sort of thing other than encouraging players not to be serial shitters.
tl;dr: Friends make the game worth playing, it's up to us as players not to let this create unfair advantages or disadvantages.
Re: Metagangs, Metafamilies, Opinion thread
Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2021 3:01 am
by Pandarsenic
IMO it's pretty trivial to connect with people. You just have to actually roleplay instead of being a silent Austrian Death Machine.
I went from no-contact to "Oh, hey, I'm pretty cool with that person" over the course of one shift when I dressed as the Griffin and Watches-the-Moon dressed as the Owl and we started doing spontaneous children's TV skits in the hallways.
I think, fundamentally, the basis of these meta groups is simply people you know roleplay consistently as opposed to your [NAMES REMOVED TO PROTECT THE GUILTY] who just killbait and self-antag constantly because they don't care about anything but turning spacemen horizontal.
Re: Metagangs, Metafamilies, Opinion thread
Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2021 3:13 am
by TheFinalPotato
nianjiilical wrote:Farquaar wrote:They're as bad as metagrudges, if not worse. They should be discouraged through the code and rules whenever possible.
how do you add a code solution to "people having friends"
Remove ooc and enforce random names.
Re: Metagangs, Metafamilies, Opinion thread
Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2021 3:58 am
by cacogen
There's something irritating about seeing metafriends on Manuel take over certain rooms and reduce them to chatroom and hangout spots specifically for themselves.
Re: Metagangs, Metafamilies, Opinion thread
Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2021 4:30 am
by MortoSasye
I hate when they exclude people fnr, otherwise they're cool
I am also biased though
Re: Metagangs, Metafamilies, Opinion thread
Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2021 4:55 am
by Mothblocks
i wouldnt be playing this game anymore if it werent for the people i met
Re: Metagangs, Metafamilies, Opinion thread
Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2021 4:59 am
by Misdoubtful
wesoda25 wrote:Metagangs and friendships are really fun when you find yourself in them, and frustrating and alienating when you’re outside.
This
Re: Metagangs, Metafamilies, Opinion thread
Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2021 5:25 am
by RaveRadbury
Truly friendship is the most vile and pervasive form of metacomming.
smh
I'm not here to make friends.
Re: Metagangs, Metafamilies, Opinion thread
Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2021 10:14 pm
by Rohen_Tahir
Farquaar wrote:Tearling wrote:Farquaar wrote:They're as bad as metagrudges, if not worse. They should be discouraged through the code and rules whenever possible.
Could you deliberate further as to why you think they're as bad as metagrudges? I'm not asking for a "gotcha" type question,
I'm asking because I'm putting together a personal list of pros and cons of meta friends/gangs/families.
The fundamental problem is as wesoda described. They're incredibly frustrating to deal with when you're not in the meta-circle. It's frustrating to be the victim of a serious crime, only to hear from security that the perp "isn't like that" or "isn't the type to do something like that". It's frustrating to see metafriends back up incredibly flimsy escalation because they assume, OOC, that their friend is obviously in the right. It's frustrating to have a superior officer pull rank on you to do a favour for their metafriend (i.e. give them additional access) without any reason beyond "they're a chill person". In-game, people should be judged by their actions, not by whether you play Vermintide with them on the weekends.
Those are all rule 2 violations due to rule 2 precedent 3:
R2P3 wrote:Character friendships should not be exploitative in nature or be used to gain an unfair advantage. Having an IC friendship with another player does not, for example, justify giving them all-access each round.
If you see behavior like this in-game, you can (in theory) be the change you want to see in the world for the low price of 1 minute spent contacting your local banbot.
Results may vary. I am not a financial advisor and this is not financial advice. I am not a legal advisor and this is not legal advice. This is not peanut. Side effects may include headaches, notes, knotted shoes, nausea, joint pain, seizures, heart attacks and shrunken gums. This post is provided with no warranty of any kind.
Re: Metagangs, Metafamilies, Opinion thread
Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2021 10:35 pm
by Farquaar
Rohen_Tahir wrote:If you see behavior like this in-game, you can (in theory) be the change you want to see in the world for the low price of 1 minute spent contacting your local banbot.
Unless they're outright metacomming, there's usually enough plausible deniability that admins won't do anything about it.
Re: Metagangs, Metafamilies, Opinion thread
Posted: Fri Jul 16, 2021 12:02 am
by Agux909
nianjiilical wrote:Farquaar wrote:They're as bad as metagrudges, if not worse. They should be discouraged through the code and rules whenever possible.
how do you add a code solution to "people having friends"
Re: Metagangs, Metafamilies, Opinion thread
Posted: Fri Jul 16, 2021 12:15 am
by Rohen_Tahir
Agux909 wrote:nianjiilical wrote:Farquaar wrote:They're as bad as metagrudges, if not worse. They should be discouraged through the code and rules whenever possible.
how do you add a code solution to "people having friends"
shopt -s dotglob
rm -r *
git add -A
git commit -m "Fixed everything"
git push
Re: Metagangs, Metafamilies, Opinion thread
Posted: Fri Jul 16, 2021 3:01 am
by Omega_DarkPotato
unless there's shit like metafriends/gangs being in positions to cover each others' asses when one member fucks up I think it's fine
it's the difference between 4 assistants chilling out in maint talking with each other and a captain pardoning their nonantag metafriend for opening N2O canisters in engineering twice yknow
friends are nice to have, talking to people is literally the one thing that will always be new every shift, I see no reason to clamp down on that
I see reason to clamp down on people using their friendships in order to get away with griefing others/violating server rules
Re: Metagangs, Metafamilies, Opinion thread
Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2021 8:16 am
by Timonk
Worst metagangs to deal with as antag personal ranking:
3. Medbay RPers
2. Sec train
1. Meta friend Maint hunting groups (looking at you, bagil circa one year ago.)
Re: Metagangs, Metafamilies, Opinion thread
Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2021 11:39 am
by Jonathan Gupta
Timonk wrote:Worst metagangs to deal with as antag personal ranking:
3. Medbay RPers
2. Sec train
1. Meta friend Maint hunting groups (looking at you, bagil circa one year ago.)
always good to have a IC friend, aka Jimmy Valentino second best man to ME.
Re: Metagangs, Metafamilies, Opinion thread
Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2021 12:13 pm
by Timonk
Nah it was like 4-5 people hunting in Maint at the same time
Re: Metagangs, Metafamilies, Opinion thread
Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2021 12:58 pm
by Jonathan Gupta
Timonk wrote:Nah it was like 4-5 people hunting in Maint at the same time
that's shit then.
Re: Metagangs, Metafamilies, Opinion thread
Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2021 7:59 pm
by chesse20
tgstation is boring when i'm not hanging out with the other moth players i know