antag huds and adminobservers

[lmwevil]

yo guys i have a hot take, the closure of antag huds is stinki and i want to complain on digg.

don't make me go back to admin... i was free don't make me go back NOOOOOO I JUST WANT TO OBSERVE AND KNOW WHAT TO LOOK AT TO VIBE

alternatively give a boomermin rank (or revive adminobserver) as an option for retired admins if they want it so 'OHHH NOOOOOOH METAGAME' isn't a thing since it'd be a pretty small list

PLEASE I JUST WANT TO OBSERVE AND WATCH THE COOL THINGS NOT HAVE TO FLICK TO EVERY FUCKING PERSON AND INSPECT THEIR HUDS PLEASE AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

[MortoSasye]

there's no escape

[Not-Dorsidarf]

weak


figure out who's the antag based on ghostcourt and deadchat hearsay or perish

[Naloac]

kinda odd this was handed over to headmins to decide only for maintainers to do a takebacksies, I was fine with this my only issue was I wanted it to lock you outta dchat

[Jimmius]

Yeah literally all of us agreed it was a good idea, Headmin-wise, but if Maintainers want to veto it that's on them.

Though they've lost all right to wring their hands and complain anytime a headmin looks at a config value.

[Timberpoes]

Pardonnez moi, but as the maintainer who finally closed the PR I would like to talk about the headmin assertions before people get antsies in their pantsies:

Despite pinging @maintainer (which includes the headcoders) in a low traffic channel (#maint-bus) very openly that I'd closed it and outlining the reason why I closed it - As well as outlining the reasons in the PR body itself - none of the headcoders have yet gone back to re-open it or have spoken to me about how they planned to re-open it. None of the headmins have talked to me in any way about how this went against some agreement they had with the headcoders that this was purely an administrative matter. If I was genuinely wrong to have closed it, then I'll re-open it and apologise for the low surface area of my brain.

No headmin commented on the PR. There is no discussion between headmins and headcoders in #maint-bus or #coding-general about the feature and it being formally handed off as a headmin decision. Same in the PR. Same in the admin channels. I'm struggling to find out where this was decided as a headmin issue with no maintainer input required. If it was handled in DMs, lemme know which headcoder and I'll discuss if I made a mistake in closing the PR with them.

In the same vein, I disagree with oranges that it's an issue which is purely administrative in nature.

We have cult spirits that can directly talk to dead chat, so being able to suss out various antags for conversion with more certainty isn't something I want to push forward (hashtag remove cult), as well as the wizard event to make ghosts visible (point point point point point orbit hashtag remove wizard) and at least one item in the game that makes ghosts that orbit it visible (point point point point hashtag remove spectral ). A camera obscura that can take pictures of what ghosts are orbitting (hashtag remove all content).

[Edit] Also pre-emptively, I understand that observers can already do a lot of antag hunting via the orbit menu's tools. I find this a weak argument for making it easier to do when I don't personally like that as the status quo either.

There are genuine gameplay impacts to decisions that expand the knowledge observers have. There's a tangible design space I can point to around players interacting with observers through IC methods that maintainers should have their 0.02c in. I fully admit I didn't bring them up in discussions either. I was just genuinely fatigued by the situation with MSO stepping in to re-open the PR causing a new stepping on eggshells moment.

If you have an issue with me closing the PR as a headmin then you have various options to talk to me about it. You have a dozen Discord channels you can use, or my DMs which aren't restricted, or via headcoders if you don't feel you can approach me directly for whatever reason.

Public snipes like "Though they've lost all right to wring their hands and complain anytime a headmin looks at a config value." are useful to precisely nobody and only serve to stoke animosity between people who should be broadly collaborating on the tgstation project.

[Gigapuddi420]

weak


figure out who's the antag based on ghostcourt and deadchat hearsay or perish

this, fuck antag huds. Ghost court or just flat deducing it yourself is where it's at. The short lived mystery while observing is part of the fun.

[lmwevil]

thanks for the replies everyone and the thoughtful response from timberpiecesofeight

anyway even if we can't get antag huds merged having a rank of trusted observers to not ruin the 'oh my gerd the fun experience of clicking on everyone on the observe list.. what a suuurprise wow!!!' that have access to it would be nice

PLEASE DON'T MAKE ME REJOIN THE TEAM JUST FOR AN ANTAG HUD AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

[technokek]

[Timonk]

Who are you

[lmwevil]

Who are you

Forgotten

[lmwevil]

i do think it warrants a test merge though to see if it will have the massive ruining of the observer experience and increase in metagaming that has been alleged, worst comes to worst a few rounds are bad right?

[lmwevil]

i feel nothing but agony as I wait day after day for antag huds to come..

[Timonk]

who are you

[Flatulent]

hes imwevil it says so under his pfp

[Pandarsenic]

No it says Lmwevil

[wesoda25]

alternatively give a boomermin rank (or revive adminobserver) as an option for retired admins if they want it so 'OHHH NOOOOOOH METAGAME' isn't a thing since it'd be a pretty small list

This is dumb and more importantly unfair.

[Cobby]

orbit me when i join i nearly always follow all the antags

[capn_monkeypaw]

alternatively give a boomermin rank (or revive adminobserver) as an option for retired admins if they want it so 'OHHH NOOOOOOH METAGAME' isn't a thing since it'd be a pretty small list

This is dumb and more importantly unfair.

Correct.

[Timonk]

Hi Evil Knievel!!