/tg/Station 13

...and why its a dumb practice.

Its a practice I see from HoSes all the time, I know its something I used to do all the time.

But its dumb, pointless,
Utterly retarded.


Its one of those old meta/power game things, like AIs bolting EVA, that started off yonks ago and has never stopped because newbies have learned it as standard practice from their masters.

But when you step back and think about it, its completely useless.


Implants only de-antag ONE type of antag: Converted Revs.
Rev rounds are rarely if ever stealthy, so the risk of a rev sneaking into your ranks is marginal.
It also should be noted that more than a handful of head revs have gotten implanted without being noticed, then gone on to sabotage security's efforts.

They only protect the conversion from two types of antags: cults and revs.
Most of you are not going to initiate a new transfer in by making them drink the Holy Water, so you're still running the risk of a cultist infiltrating your ranks.
-If they're actually a good guy then its going to be far more likely that the cultists will kill and shard the the officer anyway.
Officers are going to be wearing their hud shades, so they're protected from head-rev flashes - not that they'd take the risk flashing an officer anyway


Implants do absolutely nothing to:
-Traitors
-Changelings
-Head-revs (though they do cause a message revealing that they resisted the implant (This used to be a RNG chance of showing as well, not sure if it still is))
-Nuke-ops
-And wizards


So what this means, is that the antags that actually will try to infiltrate Sec (Traitors, Lings, even the occasional Nuke Op or Wizard) the implant screening process does nothing except give them the Green Square of Trustworthy-Ability.

I actually had a traitor the other week get transferred into Sec, got implanted.
Later he bought some antag gear, a cargo worker caught him, he arrested the cargo worker and attempted to frame the cargo worker by saying the antag gear was taken from that cargo worker.
This amongst other complaints about him lead me to investigate him, his literal defence was "But I can't be traitor, look I'm implanted!"
If it wasn't for me remembering that he was a transfer in (and checking sec records to see that his employee photo showed him wearing a non-sec uniform) he probably would've got away with it instead of getting permaed himself.


TL/DR: Implanting transferees into Security is an absolutely stupid practice that does nothing but let traitors hide better.
Stop this practice immediately.
Leave transfer ins unimplanted as it will make it easier to identify them to scrutinise their behaviour.

Loyalty Implants are good for keeping track of real Sec Officers, mainly against Changelings or sneaky Traitors. Sadly I've seen very few Officers actually notice a lack of a Loyalty Implant on someone.

But yes, implanting anyone outside of Rev, and possible Cult rounds, is fools errand.

Steelpoint wrote:Loyalty Implants are good for keeping track of real Sec Officers, mainly against Changelings or sneaky Traitors. Sadly I've seen very few Officers actually notice a lack of a Loyalty Implant on someone.

Stick new transfers with a tracking implant... or a chemical implant loaded with 50 units of death juice, instead.

Still lets you differentiate between officers that have been eaten by lings and those that probably were lings in the first place.

Malkevin wrote: Stick new transfers with a tracking implant... or a chemical implant loaded with 50 units of death juice, instead.

Still lets you differentiate between officers that have been eaten by lings and those that probably were lings in the first place.

That's what I typically do, I meant to say that Loyalty Implants are only useful for round start/late join Officers and not one's recruited from the general population.

Yeah, loyalty implants still show that the officer in question was noticed by the warden, hos, or captain (since they have access to the implant boxes).

That means it helps protect against a traitor or particularly a changeling that has changed into an officer's gear having stripped and killed them elsewhere. If you implant everyone who comes to security and says "I'm a new officer, gimme equipment" that's useful information.

No, it's not a perfect defence against all rogue officers but it's a hell of a lot better than doing nothing, and so continuing to do it is hardly a dumb practice. A kill switch or tracking implant for new officers is also an excellent idea, but both are considerably higher effort (the tracking implant needs someone with the tracking pad to be useful, and the chem implant needs someone to actually go and get it filled up as far as I'm aware...loyalty is just stick in and ignore).

I feel like the lesson here isn't to not use implants but to take care to remember who is and who isn't a job transfer officer. And to be very careful when dealing with officers that are.

999/1000 anyone whose wearing security gear/HoS and the Captain's gear running around with "James McGill - Security Officer" without an implant has either stolen said items or is trying to pretend to be that person. Personally it helps me ID people who've been implanted during cult and rev rounds and actual criminals who are trying to pull a fast on over on HUDless officers. Regardless if you begin to fight and struggle against getting an implant so you can join Sec it leads them to believe you're an antagonist or a shitler trying to get free guns.

If you're wanting to make Loyalty implants more useful then they could:
Deantag them
Change their objectives to support Nanotransen - Keep x Item safe (Nuke Disk,Blueprints,etc,etc)
Technically makes them a double agent, but w/o antag status so they have to be smart.

RG4 wrote: HUDless officers.

These exist?

imblyings wrote:I feel like the lesson here isn't to not use implants but to take care to remember who is and who isn't a job transfer officer. And to be very careful when dealing with officers that are.

No... the lesson is literally don't waste implants by following a failure of a meta-formula because its an ancient practice... like circumcisions

Malk, are you having a giggle?

You say implants don't stop anags, when they literally do. While they don't magically deantag (non rev) antags, on the flip side, antags can't (easily) get their hands on implants illegally, which makes impersonating a sec officer/captain extremely difficult, assuming anyone with huds isn't a retard (half they time they are, but that's their fault).

If someone is saying 'they can't be an antag because implant' that's meta as fucking shit and they need to be shot.

If the hop promotes some random shit to sec officer, he can be immediately spotted by the lack of the implant, and either kicked the fuck out, or properly brought in.
The implant serves to show that they're an actual, 'official' member of sec, to the rest of security.

So yes, loyalty implants don't stop antags getting into sec, but sec without implants are immediately identifiable as either fakes or illegitimate members, which is supremely important.

Also sec has chem and tracking implants for a bloody reason. It's perfectly reasonable for the HoS to use them on new officers, just as it is to announe over sec radio that X has just been promoted to sec officer etc.


I seriously don't get the whole 'b-but no antag sec meta' argument, claiming it's 'unfair' to have antags get into sec these days. The reason? NON SEC CAN'T SEE IMPLANTS. Unless you have huds you have no idea whether the sec officer you're dealing with has an implant, and by extension, is a guy in disguise/ling/fake. This has not changed since no round start sec antags.

So from the crew's point of view, it's still perfectly possible for members of sec to be antags, merely less likely.

Anyone who gets dunked because they 'assume sec cant be antags' have ony themselves to blame.

That somewhat drifted off topic, but the point still stands, implants are important identifiers for sec members themselves, not the crew. They're not 'not antag' markers, they're 'officially appointed sec' markers.

Edit: also the amount of times cultists have tried to convert me as a sec officer, holy fuck man, shit's useful.

RG4 wrote:If you're wanting to make Loyalty implants more useful then they could:
Deantag them No... thats dumb
Change their objectives to support Nanotransen - Keep x Item safe (Nuke Disk,Blueprints,etc,etc) No... thats dumb
Technically makes them a double agent, but w/o antag status so they have to be smart.No... this is also dumb

Buffing implants to affect more than they do now is just retarded.
Why?
Because security will forever be implanting people as soon as they get the tiniest whiff of antagness.
This will result in loyalty implants being removed, ala syndicakes, or admins will go "ohh thats meta!!" and start banning people.

lumipharon wrote:If the hop promotes some random shit to sec officer, he can be immediately spotted by the lack of the implant, and either kicked the fuck out, or properly brought in.
The implant serves to show that they're an actual, 'official' member of sec, to the rest of security.

So yes, loyalty implants don't stop antags getting into sec, but sec without implants are immediately identifiable as either fakes or illegitimate members, which is supremely important.

Also sec has chem and tracking implants for a bloody reason. It's perfectly reasonable for the HoS to use them on new officers, just as it is to announe over sec radio that X has just been promoted to sec officer etc.

Are you retarded? Because thats entirely my fucking point.


I'm saying that when HoSes approve of HoPs assigning new Sec Officers to Sec that the usual practice of implanting new officers because "HURRR IMPLANT MAKE EVERYTING OKAYYYY" is down right fucking dumb.
The concept of "Lack of implant makes infiltrators highly visible" doesn't apply when the common practice is to bum rush them and force the implant into them.


By the way, this whole chelpstorm with server hosts transferring?
Stems from a round where Sticky as an antag managed to break into the Captain's office, make himself Captain, sneak into the armory, and implant himself - no one was the wiser until the real captain turned up.
So its not impossible for antags to get implants.

ITT: Malkevin doesn't like it if you don't play the way he wants you to play.

Implanting officers is not metagaming. The entire Security force starts out with implants. You could say that the implant is part of their equipment just as much as HUDshades and a stun baton.

So its not impossible for antags to get implants.

No, but it's way harder for them to get implants unless they go through security or successfully enter a higher access role.

When you implant someone who has just joined security you are doing something fundamentally useful. You prevent them from being a rev, you prevent them from being converted into a cult, and you make them much more suspicious if they convert as a changeling. Not implanting them makes it much easier for all these antagonists, and 'keeping an eye on unimplanted sec' isn't nearly as helpful.

If you think it's necessary, then by all means tracking implant them. That's the logical next step. But not implanting them with anything is retarded. Assuming I can't keep track of every new officer, and I can't because the HOP frequently promotes without mentioning it to anyone else, and I'm not in the brig 24/7 as an officer (and even as a warden or hos, shit, things get busy who knew?) the implants are a massive help in knowing whether the officer you're next to has probably killed a man to be there or just joined up either by arrival or mid round.

Implanting new officers doesn't help antagonists hide, it just makes spotting assimilators way harder.

Ricotez wrote:ITT: Malkevin doesn't like it if you don't play the way he wants you to play.

Implanting officers is not metagaming. The entire Security force starts out with implants. You could say that the implant is part of their equipment just as much as HUDshades and a stun baton.

Oh for fuck sake you people are dumb.

yes I know what happened with SoS.

And yes, if an anag can get all access, get into the armory and steal implants without anyone knowing, good for him, but unsurprisingly, it doesn't happen that often.

I don't see your point - blindly implanting anyone who walks in as a new recruit is dumb, but not implanting any new recruit is dumber.
You say implanting new recruits makes it easier for traitors to blend in? if you don't implan your new recruits not only will they blend in with every other unimplanted recruit, but it opens it up to any antag (especially lings to just murder a sec officer and impersonate them. Because guess what, sec officers don't see another sec officer and careful check their identity to see if they're around start officer or not.

Loyalty implants isn't some fool proof method of excluding antags from sec, nor should it be. However it is an extremely useful tool to prevent antags from impersonating sec or getting into the force through a shitty HoP.

The solution may be to implant a new officer but to secretly inform, maybe via PDA, the other officers to exercise greater caution when with that officer because they transferred in.

That's if you want to lull them into some sort of complacency but it might also be worth openly stating over the security radio that they are a job transfer and to be careful around them as a deterrence so antags are now aware that the other officers are being careful around them.

Implants are a great way to track suspected lings, give them a loyalty implant and watch them be stuck with an identifier if they change faces

I just anounce over sec radio when new recruits come in. It makes perfectly IC sense, where as some sneaky pda shit implies some serious trust issues which in my personal opinion, seems pretty meta - unless you have an actual reason to suspect them (which begs the question why the fuck are you letting them into sec).

Most of security can't remember you saying why someone is set to arrest 5 minutes ago, do you honestly believe they're going to remember you saying they're got a new recruit to keep an eye on?

As opposed to people even seeing implants, or as opposed to new recruits not having implants at all so you can't tell when they get eaten by a ling, or it's just some random guy with a gas mask?

>implies some serious trust issues which in my personal opinion, seems pretty meta

Meta is the use of IC information gained OOC. In between the lack of server canon and the constant fear of getting killed and IC'ly waiting for centcom to clone you from their backups for more hurt that security experience, I'm honestly quite surprised serious trust issues don't surface up more in character interactions. There's no IC information obtained via OOC being used here. Or maybe it's more 'canon' that people have died and been cloned so many times that it would go against the grain to have serious trust issues because everyone knows nothing matters and that they will be sent to another station in a new body again no matter what happens. I don't know. It's not meta though, whatever it is.

>unless you have an actual reason to suspect them (which begs the question why the fuck are you letting them into sec).

Because security have to juggle IC and OOC, more so than any other job. IC, I wouldn't let a random crew member just suddenly become a security officer without forced holy water feeding, a replacement of his PDA, surgery to remove any uplink implants and finally, a probation period that effectively lasts the entire round where he is gimped in his ability to fuck over security. It would make sense, it's the kind of thing a rational person who is allowed to know everything would do when put in charge of the security of a (flimsy) station under attack by psychopathic murderers, psychopathic aliens, psychopathic brainwashed mobs, psychopathic cultists who believe in a dark god who actually exists, psychopathic paramilitary saboteurs and psychopathic magical dicks.

But OOC, that's not feasible most of the time and you're also juggling the OOC opinion of players of security and your ckey/character, as well as whatever level of obligation you feel towards the fun or FUN! of other players, which means you have to sometimes just make your character do the same sort of mental gymnastics that confound any attempt to realize that attacking a syndie shuttle is in fact a tactically sound idea. Which in short means, for the sake of OOC reasons, you have to be okay with people joining security.

Yes I'm aware that some people treat the IC side of things entirely differently but /tg/ is unique in that there's almost no real objectively correct way of doing things IC unless you're breaking rule 1. But for the same reason, sneakily PDA'ing people to be aware of job transfer security officers is a completely justifiable and rational decision to make.

anyway that was going off on a tangent kinda

edit- As for the limited memory span of officers, if you remember, then you should remember to ask other people to remember. If you're in a spot where you've wasted enough time playing sec to know what's going on, then maybe start regularly doing roll checks or making officers have more awareness of what's going on, in the hope that they'll start to blindly adopt those habits just like how they've apparently blindly adopted the practice of implanting new recruits.

On that OOC/IC note, Centcom does not have any cloning facilities, only SS13 and a few other advance research stations have it. So revival after death is not guaranteed.

my personal ~:3~:3~headcanon~:3~:3~ has centcom owning a bunch of purpose-built cloning facilities somewhere because otherwise I'm not sure how to explain my character coming back to life each time he gets rekt by singulos or narsies or good-old fashioned eswords in his back.

but yes, revival after death not being guaranteed would also be just as likely.

lumipharon wrote:As opposed to people even seeing implants, or as opposed to new recruits not having implants at all so you can't tell when they get eaten by a ling, or it's just some random guy with a gas mask?

You see a security officer drag someone to perma.
They're kicking and screaming that the officer is a traitor.
You glance at the officer, notice that he's implanted, so go by the current meta of "Implanted Sec can't be antags"
You assume the person is just your average shitter, because 9/10 people arrested are complete shites, so you don't give the officer a second thought.

Repeat the above, this time the officer is not implanted.
You realise something may be up.
You check the Sec Records and see that his employee photo is actually a Librarian.
You assume the officer is actually a round antag that has infiltrated sec and so beat the crap out of him.

First scenario the traitor gets away with it because the dumb warden/hos completed the traitors disguise
Second scenario the traitor doesn't get away with it because the lack of an implant prompted you to be suspect of them.


As for lings;
You see an unimplanted officer
You check the records
-He's a round start sec officer, possibly its a ling! ... or maybe its a poor officer that got murdered but lucky enough to get cloned? Time to investigate!
-Not a round start officer, you ask the warden/hos if they were smart enough to implant the newbie with a tracker and/or chemplant - if there were smart you've outed a ling... or maybe he was killed too - investigate! If they were smart, well your investigation just got a lot harder - suck it up and do your duty.

I agreed completely with Steelpoint about implanting them with trackers instead, in case you didn't notice.


As for telling your sec team about new transfers...

In case you've forgotten, I'm the longest playing security player that's still about.
I've done this gig long enough to know that the average redshirt is a dumb ignorant inattentive s o b, they require prompts to pull their heads out of their arses.
Lack of an implant is a prompt in all scenarios, being implanted is "this situation is normal, ignore" response.

Not to mention the fact that security is rarely fully staffed at round start - do you honestly think security is going to pass on the who's who everytime a new office arrives on the shuttle?

Steelpoint wrote:On that OOC/IC note, Centcom does not have any cloning facilities, only SS13 and a few other advance research stations have it. So revival after death is not guaranteed.

This is a controversial point added to a non-canon description without any form of actual discussion by a single person.

Until that change was made, Centcomm was specifically stated to have a massive cloning bank (to explain how all these exploded people come back).

in fact, I think the person who made it was one of the bay super-enthusiasts, where the canon is 'This is the first time any of the roundtypes have ever happened', as opposed to here, where nukes, bombs, cults, traitors and wizards are an average day on SS13

Are you suggesting the best option is that every time a sec officer sees one of the deliberately unimplanted sec officers, they investigate them to see if they're an antag?
There are more then loyalty implants for a fucking reason. Stick a tracking + loyalty implant in them and they're immediately identifiable, if that's what you want.

And as this entire thread points out, there is no 'implanted officers can't be antags' meta, as we've clearly just been discussing implanted fucking antags. Anyone who BLINDLY assumes otherwise is a fucking retard.

If I see ANY sec officer dragging some guy into perma then that is a huge fucking issue - sec officers aren't supposed to perma people without the warden/HoS's go ahead, so at best, the officer is being a shitter, at worst, an antag.

You claim to be a security player yet you continue to demonstrate a complete lack knowledge of how things play out in game.

Yes there is a meta because most HoSes are smart enough to tell the dingbat of a HoP to fuck off when they try add what 9 out of 10 times ends up being an antag.
But theres still the dumb ones that allow people in that are obviously trying to bypass the antag protection on sec and just go "If I implant them all will be okay".

Again, implants only work against two antags out of seven, thats five antag types it doesn't work against.
Again, in my five years of playing I have seen exactly 1 head rev that implanted themselves in order to fool security - and that was back when they had uplinks.
But again, I see plenty of traitors/lings that get themselves implanted in order to get an easy time killing people.

Remember that Sec has antag protection for a reason, a very good reason.
Sec without the added implied trust makes the job even shittier to play because every mouth breathing shitler yells they're getting arrested for no reason which then attracts all the shitler valid hunters and greytiders looking for an excuse to fuck with sec.
The alternative is what we have now, where security does get that implied trust but this in turn means that as soon as an antag in sec arrests someone and strips off their headset they are fucked.
So you choose from either 'Security are Protags' or 'Security is a horrible job because everyone is a cunt'. I know which I'd rather choose.

"Are you suggesting the best option is that every time a sec officer sees one of the deliberately unimplanted sec officers, they investigate them to see if they're an antag?"
No I'm saying to investigate them when they start acting suspect, just like you would any other non-sec job.

Tracker+Loyalty implants
Cool, now I can't use trackers to keep tabs on my officer's corpses.

If I feel like powergaming I just change job to security as an antag for free stun tools and no questions asked if you "arrest" someone into a dark corner in maintanance.

Wow, if only you could investigate suspect behavior, implant or not. A pity loyalty implants emit an anti intelligence and meta field preventing any logic or reasoning.

As I have already said, loyalty implants, or the lack thereof, are only relevent to other people with sechuds.
Because normal crew can't even see if someone has an implant, any arguments about 'antags can kill people easier because they're implans' is out the window. The only difference is they secgear, and people are less inclined to attack them for dragging a guy cuffed down the hall - neither having anythin to do with an implant.

If you blindly choose to not investigate implanted sec officers doing suspicious things just because they have an implant, then you're literally the one at fault. The only 'meta' is you taking this rediculous assumption despite all evidence to the contrary.

If you're a paranoid fuck then don't let anyone new into sec.

If you let people into sec but you're still a paranoid fuck tracking or chem implant them AS WELL AS loyalty implant them.


The fact of the matter is, if I see someone with a loyalty implant they are statistically less likely to be an antag then if they don't have one.
If they don't have an implant then I know for a fact that they are not trustworthy (or just freshly cloned), because every member of sec has been implanted.

If all non round start officer don't have implants, then the lack of an implant doesn't tell me shit. I don't know if they're a trustworthy officer, a ling, a traitor with a mask or just some guy that looted the sec wardrobe.

Literally the solution to this issue is not make some rediculous meta assumption that implants = can't ever be antags.

Loyalty implants are useful as a stamp of approval to mark them as not the more common random shit stealer.

Having revs enter sec covertly before going loud is a nightmare scenario so I WILL want all recruits implanted. A traitor might want some of us dead, revs want all of us dead always.

They don't really need much help hiding if the hos approves them anyway and you can have all three implants in them too if you damn well wanted. You may never approve transfers well then just stun them and strip the ID, simple practice.

Loyalty implants do more than show up on SecHUDs. They lower Beepsky's threat level towards you, like an agent card.

Taken from the code: If your threat level is four or above (>= 4), you'll be pursued by THE LAW, which sets it on BOTHUNT mode.
Attacking Beepsky (or any Security bot) adds +6 to your threat level.
Having a firearm (not including laser-tag or practice lasers) in your left hand without a permit adds +4 to your threat level.
Having a firearm (ditto) in your right hand without a permit adds +4 to your threat level.
Having a firearm (ditto) on your belt without a permit adds +2 to your threat level.
If you're wearing a wizard robe, your threat level is +2.
If you're a mutantrace, your threat level is +2.
Wearing an agent ID lowers your threat level by 2.
If you're on arrest, your threat level is +4.
If Beepsky is emagged, your threat level is 10, regardless of other modifiers.
If you're an alien, Beepsky ignores threat levels and goes straight to BOTHUNT.

... Wait, there's nothing about implants in here. At least you got a free security bot lesson.
(So if you're on Arrest and a human, stash your guns and wear an agent ID, and watch the lizard in the wizard robe be arrested instead.)

What, so lizard wizards (or atleast wearing the robes) makes you get hunted by beepsky by default? Heh.

That's correct, yes. Taking off your robe won't make him stop, either. It's a combination of workplace speciesism and a strong hatred of the SWF.
I'm not sure if wearing fake wizard robes counts, or if they have to be real.

Malkevin wrote:You glance at the officer, notice that he's implanted, so go by the current meta of "Implanted Sec can't be antags"

Stop. Stop right there. Stop with that 'meta' word. What's that implant called? It's called a 'Loyalty Implant'. It's a chip in the brain of trusted station personnel that makes them loyal to Nanotrasen. The message received when loyalty implanted is "You receive a surge of loyalty towards Nanotrasen." Where's the room for IC misinterpretation there? "oh look it's a loyalty implant, i have no idea what that could possibly do despite being a trained officer with one in me right now."

Cipher3 wrote:

Malkevin wrote:You glance at the officer, notice that he's implanted, so go by the current meta of "Implanted Sec can't be antags"

Spoiler:

Stop. Stop right there. Stop with that 'meta' word. What's that implant called? It's called a 'Loyalty Implant'. It's a chip in the brain of trusted station personnel that makes them loyal to Nanotrasen. The message received when loyalty implanted is "You receive a surge of loyalty towards Nanotrasen." Where's the room for IC misinterpretation there? "oh look it's a loyalty implant, i have no idea what that could possibly do despite being a trained officer with one in me right now."

The loyalty implant does not brainwash, it prevents brainwashing.

It stops you being turned into a rev/undoes being a rev, and stops you being brainwashed by the cult, but it does not uncult you nor does it turn wizards etc loyal.

Cipher3 wrote:

Malkevin wrote:You glance at the officer, notice that he's implanted, so go by the current meta of "Implanted Sec can't be antags"

Spoiler:

Stop. Stop right there. Stop with that 'meta' word. What's that implant called? It's called a 'Loyalty Implant'. It's a chip in the brain of trusted station personnel that makes them loyal to Nanotrasen. The message received when loyalty implanted is "You receive a surge of loyalty towards Nanotrasen." Where's the room for IC misinterpretation there? "oh look it's a loyalty implant, i have no idea what that could possibly do despite being a trained officer with one in me right now."

Do you understand the concept of a light rp server?
That RP fluff comes secondary to game mechanics?
In fact most of RP fluff is made on the spot to excuse the way the game works.

The line of "You feel a sudden surge of loyalty" is completely RP Fluff, we'd only be restricted on that if we were an Enforced RP server


Really your post is just making you look like a complete muppet.

Yeah, that's not how loyalty implants work at all here, cipher.

"Stop metagaming guys. By the way, game mechanics are more important than fluff."

Rico, you are also dumb.

When did I, in fact when have I ever, said not to metagame?

I'm saying change your metagame because you're doing it wrong.

Light RP = Fuck RP, gotta get dat redtext. Don't do anything at all in game that makes RP sense unless it furthers your cause of sniffing out those valids.

I honestly think that implants really rely on timing, it might take a bit of time to get them implanted, but I think transfered officers being implanted isn't a "Useless" practice. Of course, its not going to fix everything, which is more reason for the HOS to review the person and decide if they should be on their force. For example: If the chemist decided to join the ranks, they should make sure he isn't packing any illegal or harmful drugs, they should also check that he has his chemist access removed so he doesn't go back to his lab to make things. With the few things that implants actually cover, the rest should be checked by the HOS and if he isn't doing that, he really shouldn't be allowing anyone transfer if he isn't going to make the effort. This also goes for other heads, like the HOP, they should NEVER transfer a person without the say so of the HOS, the Cap as well, unless hes willing to make the effort stated earlier.

As I see it, Implanting transfers is like janitors mopping the floor, its going to seem useless to someone, but its still going to be done nonetheless

Malkevin wrote:

Cipher3 wrote:

Malkevin wrote:You glance at the officer, notice that he's implanted, so go by the current meta of "Implanted Sec can't be antags"

Spoiler:

Stop. Stop right there. Stop with that 'meta' word. What's that implant called? It's called a 'Loyalty Implant'. It's a chip in the brain of trusted station personnel that makes them loyal to Nanotrasen. The message received when loyalty implanted is "You receive a surge of loyalty towards Nanotrasen." Where's the room for IC misinterpretation there? "oh look it's a loyalty implant, i have no idea what that could possibly do despite being a trained officer with one in me right now."

Do you understand the concept of a light rp server?
That RP fluff comes secondary to game mechanics?
In fact most of RP fluff is made on the spot to excuse the way the game works.

The line of "You feel a sudden surge of loyalty" is completely RP Fluff, we'd only be restricted on that if we were an Enforced RP server


Really your post is just making you look like a complete muppet.

You're missing the point to obsess over something that was perceived as a roleplay suggestion. It's not 'meta' to say that Security officers should be trusted by the crew, it's right there in the mechanics, it's right there in the name of the item that every default Officer has inside them, that all requires a net zero RP and a net zero outside information that isn't presented directly to your HUD-wearing character.
But you just went from saying 'assuming Sec is Nanotrasen-sided because of a loyalty implant is meta' to 'that's way too srs RP for us to say Sec is default Nanotrasen-sided based on the loyalty implant'.

tl;dr you don't know what meta means, just ignore some other higher meaning you get from this. (And feel free to suggest a PR removing that implant message, I'm indifferent).

lumipharon wrote:A pity loyalty implants emit an anti intelligence and meta field preventing any logic or reasoning.

This would actually explain a LOT about how Security tends to operate.

I always wondered the same thing myself, Malk. When I'm traitor I usually convince the HOP/HOS to let me be security by eagerly asking for an implant. All it does is give them a false sense of security. Some of people's replies to your post are straight-up whack tho.

It's not perfect, but it works against two types of antags and you're a retard if you give sec gear and access to somebody that can be converted. I usually give them a lethal chem implant and/or a tracking implant in addition. If I get reports of them doing anything suspicious, they're fucked. I prefer to take them alive to I can torture them to death in the courthouse but it's always good to have a killswitch.

Malkevin wrote: It also should be noted that more than a handful of head revs have gotten implanted without being noticed, then gone on to sabotage security's efforts.

This hasn't been the case for months. It gives a specific headrev message and the implant fails. lol do you even play

What, you mean the "x resists the implant message?"

Been in for years, since I've played in fact.
The rev heads got the implants by either emagging an implant crate, which they can no longer do.
Or by robusting the hos and stealing any implants that they are carrying, which still can happen

I remember a round this or last month where a revhead was complaining about being killed even after secretly loyalty implanting himself.