Low pop and being antag on Manuel and ensuing salt.

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kayozz
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2022 8:56 pm
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Re: Low pop and being antag on Manuel and ensuing salt.

Post by kayozz » #660203

Bottom post of the previous page:

Honestly I'm just being tongue-in-cheek and pointing it out for fun rather than any malice on my part by this point, so I hope nobody takes my comment(s) as a negative thing. After reading throught the comments I can legit see both sides of the debate now - and I'm only pushing it for debate really, rather than stirring the pot.

Some great answers and replies in this thread from both sides, so I do appreciate it.

As for me, I think on low pop I'll stick to theft objectives and bugging items and killing pets. That said, if I get chased or attacked, in my mind they're valid salad for a bit of the old ultra-violence though. And if I get the chance I'll chuck them in medbay or at least somewhere semi-visible.

So yeah, best of both worlds. I hope nobody takes my posts as anything but a discussion. I was a bit annoyed in the moment, but now I'm just happy to see all sides.
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RaveRadbury
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Re: Low pop and being antag on Manuel and ensuing salt.

Post by RaveRadbury » #660206

TypicalRig wrote: Fri Dec 23, 2022 2:29 pm
Screemonster wrote: Fri Dec 23, 2022 1:35 pm
TypicalRig wrote: Fri Dec 23, 2022 1:04 pm
A lone antagonist is completely allowed to do as they please, so it's equally fair to hold them accountable for their behaviour if they decide to do something in bad faith.
there is nothing "bad faith" about literally playing the fucking game

you know what you sound like right now? You sound like a dude I ran into in syschat in Elite Dangerous a while back.
There was a story event going on, a war in a particular system that would decide the current plot arc. Players had to go out to conflict zones in that system and score kills for their side.
Some dude showed up in open mode - the one where you can just meet other players with no restrictions, as opposed to private group or solo - and went to a CZ.
There was another player on the opposing side. He joined anyway. That player immediately saw a hollow red pip on the radar, assessed them as a threat, and blew them out of the sky.
The exploded player proceeded to bitch for about an hour in system chat about this dude shooting at him.
His reasoning: "HE KNEW I WAS ANOTHER PLAYER, WHY DIDN'T HE JUST STICK TO FARMING NPCS?????"
Unsurprisingly, literally everyone else, PvPer and PvEer alike, was like "you went to a warzone in open what the fuck did you expect, for other people NOT to fight in the war?"
Ma'am, we have rules and headmin rulings declaring certain behaviours ingame (and out of game, but that's not the topic here) as good faith and bad faith verbatim, so maybe avoid sweeping generalizations like that if you don't wish to look obtuse. Even certain solo antag activity is restricted by the rules in favour of a more pleasant server experience.

Also with your Elite Dangerous example, this is this, and that is that. I haven't played low pop for years, so personally, it's not my problem. But I've seen how those rounds go, and can understand the frustration of people having to wait to enjoy a game because someone with main character syndrome decided to start a fire he cannot put out. This is a community based game and will continue to be so. That being said, I'd rather this be fixed via just admins being on during deadpop hours rather than an actual policy change, but I get how dull and unrealistic it is to ask admins to do that.
This is my second headmin term, scree is based and always has good opinions when he posts here.

Don't ma'am him.
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wubli
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Re: Low pop and being antag on Manuel and ensuing salt.

Post by wubli » #660208

bad faith isn't doing your literal objectives in lowpop. bad faith would be to choose to purge a 10-pop round in LRP where you have no antag restrictions.
one of the biggest issues ss13 has as a whole is that people think they're entitled to an entire round every time, and when they die they don't go "ok, time to do something else" but instead bitch about the fact they have to wait until next round
i've myself felt pretty upset when i joined a round and got killed off 10 minutes in, because i know it means waiting up to an hour to play again. it's frustrating, but that's all it is.
you just got unlucky and got people who instead of going "oh man this sucks" and logging off, they decided to go off on you.
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TheFinalPotato
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Re: Low pop and being antag on Manuel and ensuing salt.

Post by TheFinalPotato » #660223

wubli wrote: Fri Dec 23, 2022 7:19 pm bad faith isn't doing your literal objectives in lowpop. bad faith would be to choose to purge a 10-pop round in LRP where you have no antag restrictions.
one of the biggest issues ss13 has as a whole is that people think they're entitled to an entire round every time, and when they die they don't go "ok, time to do something else" but instead bitch about the fact they have to wait until next round
i've myself felt pretty upset when i joined a round and got killed off 10 minutes in, because i know it means waiting up to an hour to play again. it's frustrating, but that's all it is.
you just got unlucky and got people who instead of going "oh man this sucks" and logging off, they decided to go off on you.
Preach it
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ShockShard
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Re: Low pop and being antag on Manuel and ensuing salt.

Post by ShockShard » #660272

And here I am, posting here late. I was going to post here to show I saw this thread earlier, but I suppose something caught my attention and I forgot. I again apologize for the situation you had to go through, and I am glad that at least semi-thoughtful discussions are occurring here.
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kayozz
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Re: Low pop and being antag on Manuel and ensuing salt.

Post by kayozz » #660282

ShockShard wrote: Sun Dec 25, 2022 12:38 pm And here I am, posting here late. I was going to post here to show I saw this thread earlier, but I suppose something caught my attention and I forgot. I again apologize for the situation you had to go through, and I am glad that at least semi-thoughtful discussions are occurring here.
Dude, you literally have nothing to apologise for. Not only did you keep the peace but you were reassuring in how you dealt with it.
Appreciated.
All the best.
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Krypo
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Re: Low pop and being antag on Manuel and ensuing salt.

Post by Krypo » #660286

kayozz wrote: Wed Dec 21, 2022 5:07 pm
Screemonster wrote: Wed Dec 21, 2022 4:46 pm if you were a traitor and the person you killed was your target then it's valid fuckin salad and the people complaining should fuck off to a hrp perma-extended sandbox pve server

except they shouldn't because then I might have to deal with them and fuck that
Yep I shot two people that round. A captain who almost blew my cover - Captain survived after calling me out on comms.
Then I killed ONE of my TWO targets (and during that incident I badly burned myself because the target burst into flames, so I stripped them for their jumpsuit). I didn't even hide the body, just dragged it down one ladder and grabbed their suit - nothing else.
Then as I said I got chased and dove into disposals, then the valid-hunters chased me into disposals and killed me with stolen traitor gear.

I was Ronnie.

DEAD: Kayla Poehl says, "Imagine round removing someone on deadpop, Ronnie."
DEAD: Baal-Fur says, "Yeah, massive dick move"
DEAD: Baal-Fur says, "Go to another server if you want to fuck with someone
DEAD: Ronnie Biscuits says, "what am i supposed to do? im a traitor"
DEAD: Kayla Poehl says, "Not RR people."
DEAD: Baal-Fur says, "There are no objectives that require you to RR people"
DEAD: Miria Monteith says, "RRing is sadly incentivised again with the objectives back to how they used to be"
DEAD: Ronnie Biscuits asks, "literally went after my targets, is that not allowed now?"
DEAD: Baal-Fur says, "Unless you're a primary objective"
DEAD: Ronnie Biscuits says, "dude i had two targets"
DEAD: Kayla Poehl says, "There is nothing compelling you to RR people."
DEAD: Kayla Poehl says, "You dont get an award for greentext."
DEAD: Baal-Fur says, "There is nothing compelling doing that on fucking deadpop"
DEAD: Ronnie Biscuits asks, "what? so if i have an assassination target i cant kill em?"
DEAD: Kayla Poehl says, "Nobody CARES if you get greentext."
DEAD: Ronnie Biscuits says, "dude i was TRAITOR"
DEAD: Ronnie Biscuits says, "went after my targets nobody else"
DEAD: Miria Monteith says, "I dunno, RRing primary targets is a smart thing to do but I'd avoid it where possible on Manuel - at least outside of appropriate situations on high pop hours, anyway"
DEAD: Ronnie Biscuits asks, "jesus christ.... why is everyone getting upset because i killed my target?"
DEAD: Ronnie Biscuits says, "i didnt know it was against the rules.... not like i was murderboning"
DEAD: Kayla Poehl says, "It's not against the rules, but it is a dick move."
(F) DEAD: Baal-Fur says, "It's not a rule thing, Ronnie, it's a gentleman thing
DEAD: Ronnie Biscuits asks, "so why even have traitor as a thing?"
DEAD: Ronnie Biscuits says, "ive been killed on low pop"
(F) DEAD: Kayla Poehl says, "If the only thing that makes you bea decent person is the rule of law, then you are a shit person."
(F) DEAD: Ronnie Biscuits asks, "what the hell?"
-- Administrator private message --
Admin PM from-ShockShard: Salutations. Honestly, don't worry about it. It being lowpop doesn't provide a magical shield to keep people from being targetted by Antag objectives.
DEAD: Ronnie Biscuits says, "i had 2 kill objectives... i went for them
DEAD: Miria Monteith says, "look we're not saying it's something you can never do or anything, just that when two targets is 40% of the population, maybe give them a chance or only take them out at the end, is all"
DEAD: Ronnie Biscuits says, "and i wasnt being a dick, i tried all shift not to disrupt anyone's round"
DEAD: Kayla Poehl says, "Ok, continue to be an asshole, and people will continue to call you an asshole."
DEAD: Ronnie Biscuits asks, "how is calling me an asshole even justified. i played as a traitor so what?"
(F) DEAD: Kayla Poehl says, "I dont give one red cent what the rules say, because the rules aren't what decide that you're a dick."
DEAD: Ronnie Biscuits says, "sorry to upset your meta clique"
(F) DEAD: Ronnie Biscuits asks, "Kayla if you wanna rp, why even rp in a game with antags?"
(F) DEAD: Kayla Poehl says, "If that's what you take away from this, I regret ever meeting you."
DEAD: Ronnie Biscuits says, "listen i played my role as traitor, i killed someone and you're crying.... even the admin said it was fine"
DEAD: Kayla Poehl says, "You killed two people, and then died. With 10 people here, that is over 30% of the station pop."
(F) DEAD: Ronnie Biscuits says, "2? i only killed 1"
DEAD: Ronnie Biscuits says, "not like i was random killing, just hunting my target"
(F) DEAD: Kayla Poehl says, "The admin said it is within the rules of the server
DEAD: Kayla Poehl says, "and you seem to be unable to separate being a dick, and the rules."
(F) DEAD: Ronnie Biscuits says, "it's a game, i didnt go out my way to hurt anyone, get over yourself"
DEAD: Kayla Poehl says, "I'd call you an asshole no matter who you RR'd/".
PM to-Admins: man i dont even know what i did wrong? i was only after my target, can you please let the people crying know i didnt do anything wrong? just played my role
DEAD: Kayla Poehl asks, "But why does greentext matter so much to you?"
Admin PM from-ShockShard: They know you did nothing wrong. Honestly they are just upset. Me bumping in is just going to fan the fire more.
DEAD: Ronnie Biscuits asks, "it doesnt, why does other people's greentext offend you?"
(F) DEAD: Kayla Poehl says, "Literally not a soul cares if you "accomplish your objectives""
DEAD: Ronnie Biscuits says, "the only people crying are you, im not even bothered if i died or lived, im really sorry it upset you..."
DEAD: Kayla Poehl says, "You didnt make a story, you RR'd one lizard who was minding their own business."
(F) DEAD: Ronnie Biscuits says, "MY target"
DEAD: Ronnie Biscuits says, "well... please show me the rule where antags aren't allowed to be antags on low pop"
DEAD: Kayla Poehl says, "It's not a RULE you MORON"
DEAD: Ronnie Biscuits says, "then why are you so salty? and insulting me"
DEAD: Kayla Poehl says, "God what a fucking waste of time."
(F) DEAD: Ronnie Biscuits says, "jesus christ.... its a game,... theres antags"
DEAD: Ronnie Biscuits says, "go play tetris or something"

(meanwile)

Marianne Catlay meows, "I got my main target but meh"

DEAD: Kayla Poehl says, "MUH ANTEG ROUND"
(F) DEAD: Ronnie Biscuits says, "oh wow so Marianne in chat can kill their target just not me"
DEAD: Kayla Poehl says, "MUH ANTEG"
Muffindrake: Do you understand what the term 'dick move' means?
OOC: Kayozz11: and well the other traitors killed their targets

Image

So the other antags openly admit they killed their targets and greentexted. But I kill ONE of their meta-buddies, I get shit on.
And I didn't RR anyone, I killed someone and took their jumpsuit lol.
they have a non-human name with 'fur' in it what do you expect really
In the name of Harman...
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CPTANT
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Re: Low pop and being antag on Manuel and ensuing salt.

Post by CPTANT » #660302

Ohw it's just Baal Fur, Ball Fur is always angry at anything messing up their atmos shit.
Timberpoes wrote: Tue Feb 14, 2023 3:21 pm The rules exist to create the biggest possible chance of a cool shift of SS13. They don't exist to allow admins to create the most boring interpretation of SS13.
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Re: Low pop and being antag on Manuel and ensuing salt.

Post by Not-Dorsidarf » #660431

Arent kayla and baal a metagang? You probbably interrupted their skype call or something, don't sweat it.
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kayozz
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Re: Low pop and being antag on Manuel and ensuing salt.

Post by kayozz » #660507

Not-Dorsidarf wrote: Thu Dec 29, 2022 8:08 pm Arent kayla and baal a metagang? You probbably interrupted their skype call or something, don't sweat it.
No idea, but judging by their reaction to me killing one of them, I can only assume so.
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Re: Low pop and being antag on Manuel and ensuing salt.

Post by EmpressMaia » #660587

kayozz wrote: Wed Dec 21, 2022 5:07 pm
Screemonster wrote: Wed Dec 21, 2022 4:46 pm if you were a traitor and the person you killed was your target then it's valid fuckin salad and the people complaining should fuck off to a hrp perma-extended sandbox pve server

except they shouldn't because then I might have to deal with them and fuck that
Yep I shot two people that round. A captain who almost blew my cover - Captain survived after calling me out on comms.
Then I killed ONE of my TWO targets (and during that incident I badly burned myself because the target burst into flames, so I stripped them for their jumpsuit). I didn't even hide the body, just dragged it down one ladder and grabbed their suit - nothing else.
Then as I said I got chased and dove into disposals, then the valid-hunters chased me into disposals and killed me with stolen traitor gear.

I was Ronnie.

DEAD: Kayla Poehl says, "Imagine round removing someone on deadpop, Ronnie."
DEAD: Baal-Fur says, "Yeah, massive dick move"
DEAD: Baal-Fur says, "Go to another server if you want to fuck with someone
DEAD: Ronnie Biscuits says, "what am i supposed to do? im a traitor"
DEAD: Kayla Poehl says, "Not RR people."
DEAD: Baal-Fur says, "There are no objectives that require you to RR people"
DEAD: Miria Monteith says, "RRing is sadly incentivised again with the objectives back to how they used to be"
DEAD: Ronnie Biscuits asks, "literally went after my targets, is that not allowed now?"
DEAD: Baal-Fur says, "Unless you're a primary objective"
DEAD: Ronnie Biscuits says, "dude i had two targets"
DEAD: Kayla Poehl says, "There is nothing compelling you to RR people."
DEAD: Kayla Poehl says, "You dont get an award for greentext."
DEAD: Baal-Fur says, "There is nothing compelling doing that on fucking deadpop"
DEAD: Ronnie Biscuits asks, "what? so if i have an assassination target i cant kill em?"
DEAD: Kayla Poehl says, "Nobody CARES if you get greentext."
DEAD: Ronnie Biscuits says, "dude i was TRAITOR"
DEAD: Ronnie Biscuits says, "went after my targets nobody else"
DEAD: Miria Monteith says, "I dunno, RRing primary targets is a smart thing to do but I'd avoid it where possible on Manuel - at least outside of appropriate situations on high pop hours, anyway"
DEAD: Ronnie Biscuits asks, "jesus christ.... why is everyone getting upset because i killed my target?"
DEAD: Ronnie Biscuits says, "i didnt know it was against the rules.... not like i was murderboning"
DEAD: Kayla Poehl says, "It's not against the rules, but it is a dick move."
(F) DEAD: Baal-Fur says, "It's not a rule thing, Ronnie, it's a gentleman thing
DEAD: Ronnie Biscuits asks, "so why even have traitor as a thing?"
DEAD: Ronnie Biscuits says, "ive been killed on low pop"
(F) DEAD: Kayla Poehl says, "If the only thing that makes you bea decent person is the rule of law, then you are a shit person."
(F) DEAD: Ronnie Biscuits asks, "what the hell?"
-- Administrator private message --
Admin PM from-ShockShard: Salutations. Honestly, don't worry about it. It being lowpop doesn't provide a magical shield to keep people from being targetted by Antag objectives.
DEAD: Ronnie Biscuits says, "i had 2 kill objectives... i went for them
DEAD: Miria Monteith says, "look we're not saying it's something you can never do or anything, just that when two targets is 40% of the population, maybe give them a chance or only take them out at the end, is all"
DEAD: Ronnie Biscuits says, "and i wasnt being a dick, i tried all shift not to disrupt anyone's round"
DEAD: Kayla Poehl says, "Ok, continue to be an asshole, and people will continue to call you an asshole."
DEAD: Ronnie Biscuits asks, "how is calling me an asshole even justified. i played as a traitor so what?"
(F) DEAD: Kayla Poehl says, "I dont give one red cent what the rules say, because the rules aren't what decide that you're a dick."
DEAD: Ronnie Biscuits says, "sorry to upset your meta clique"
(F) DEAD: Ronnie Biscuits asks, "Kayla if you wanna rp, why even rp in a game with antags?"
(F) DEAD: Kayla Poehl says, "If that's what you take away from this, I regret ever meeting you."
DEAD: Ronnie Biscuits says, "listen i played my role as traitor, i killed someone and you're crying.... even the admin said it was fine"
DEAD: Kayla Poehl says, "You killed two people, and then died. With 10 people here, that is over 30% of the station pop."
(F) DEAD: Ronnie Biscuits says, "2? i only killed 1"
DEAD: Ronnie Biscuits says, "not like i was random killing, just hunting my target"
(F) DEAD: Kayla Poehl says, "The admin said it is within the rules of the server
DEAD: Kayla Poehl says, "and you seem to be unable to separate being a dick, and the rules."
(F) DEAD: Ronnie Biscuits says, "it's a game, i didnt go out my way to hurt anyone, get over yourself"
DEAD: Kayla Poehl says, "I'd call you an asshole no matter who you RR'd/".
PM to-Admins: man i dont even know what i did wrong? i was only after my target, can you please let the people crying know i didnt do anything wrong? just played my role
DEAD: Kayla Poehl asks, "But why does greentext matter so much to you?"
Admin PM from-ShockShard: They know you did nothing wrong. Honestly they are just upset. Me bumping in is just going to fan the fire more.
DEAD: Ronnie Biscuits asks, "it doesnt, why does other people's greentext offend you?"
(F) DEAD: Kayla Poehl says, "Literally not a soul cares if you "accomplish your objectives""
DEAD: Ronnie Biscuits says, "the only people crying are you, im not even bothered if i died or lived, im really sorry it upset you..."
DEAD: Kayla Poehl says, "You didnt make a story, you RR'd one lizard who was minding their own business."
(F) DEAD: Ronnie Biscuits says, "MY target"
DEAD: Ronnie Biscuits says, "well... please show me the rule where antags aren't allowed to be antags on low pop"
DEAD: Kayla Poehl says, "It's not a RULE you MORON"
DEAD: Ronnie Biscuits says, "then why are you so salty? and insulting me"
DEAD: Kayla Poehl says, "God what a fucking waste of time."
(F) DEAD: Ronnie Biscuits says, "jesus christ.... its a game,... theres antags"
DEAD: Ronnie Biscuits says, "go play tetris or something"

(meanwile)

Marianne Catlay meows, "I got my main target but meh"

DEAD: Kayla Poehl says, "MUH ANTEG ROUND"
(F) DEAD: Ronnie Biscuits says, "oh wow so Marianne in chat can kill their target just not me"
DEAD: Kayla Poehl says, "MUH ANTEG"
Muffindrake: Do you understand what the term 'dick move' means?
OOC: Kayozz11: and well the other traitors killed their targets

Image

So the other antags openly admit they killed their targets and greentexted. But I kill ONE of their meta-buddies, I get shit on.
And I didn't RR anyone, I killed someone and took their jumpsuit lol.
Kayla pohel is a cat gang shitter don't listen to them. I love seeing you on manuel ronnie
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NecromancerAnne
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Re: Low pop and being antag on Manuel and ensuing salt.

Post by NecromancerAnne » #660613

I really have lost any concept of what the fuck is even happening on Manuel anymore
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Re: Low pop and being antag on Manuel and ensuing salt.

Post by Qbmax32 » #660626

reason #1283819 not to play manuel
manuel_50.png
my admin feedback thread


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