/tg/Station 13

Posted: **Wed May 27, 2015 7:07 pm**

I decided to come up with a different way of running Nations rounds

Rate my autism:

Nations Alternative Ruleset
0. If you break any of the rules on this page you will be warned/deleted and/or banned, also:
	a. If these rules are upsetting for you just do your job as normal or hang out in the library and do some DnD or adminhelp for thunderdome or whatever
	b. Everyone should wear clothing associated with their department proudly, if it is not available, adminhelp for it
	c. So you can conceal your identity but not your Nation
	d. Do not mess with telecoms, gravity or singulo
   e. As a leader, try to announce every major action
1. Every Department is an independent Nation At Start, with them in charge:
	a. CE of Engineering and Atmos
	b. HoS of Sec
	c. RD of RnD and Robotics
	d. HoP of Cargo and mining (above the QM)
	e. CMO of med
2. Others
	a. AI is independent until subverted. No secborgs. The AI should not submit willingly to subversion unless it's existence is threatened 
		or if it seeks protection from another active threat by method of alliance
	b. Sec is not a tool of the command staff unless they (or the HoS) wishes to act as such
	c. Every service section is an independent entity, they can form a coalition or align themselves with any of the other entities if they wish
	d. Assistants are independent, they can choose to join anyone that accepts them or they can form their own nation
	e. Captain is independent
3. Conflict
	a. By default you may not kill anyone unless you are defending against a sustained lethal assault
	b. Breaking in and stealing is allowed, dont steal IDs in use
	c. If someone tries to steal your things, you can take everything from them and detain them for 7 minutes
	d. Captured thieves can choose to be conscripted into the department if that is offered by their captor to avoid the punishment
4. War
	a. A leader of a Nation can declare war on another nation. Your allies have to announce joining the war
	b. Usually this is done through the wall computers that can make announcements (request console)
	c. Nobody shall attempt to break these computers or make them inaccessible
	d. If you are a leader that can't get to a console, adminhelp to have your message broadcasted
	e. If you aren't a leader, dont make announcements
	f. If you are at war, you may kill your enemies if they attack you outside their department or if they resist the occupation of their department
	g. Do not use non-targeted mass destruction (releasing sing, flooding station - BAD; bombing brig: good)
	h. Do not declare war before 15 minutes (see PDA for time) or the admin announcement allowing it
	i. A leader can declare that they wish to negotiate terms to end the war. All workers under them have to obey this.
	j. A leader can declare an unconditional surrender. All workers under them have to obey this.
	k. If a Nation is occupied for 10 minutes and the leader is captured, the winning Nation can Annex the loser or "demote" the loser leader and keep their Nation as a "vassal" or a "puppet state"
	h. Vassals are not free until they win a war against their Ruler or their ruler is annexed; or set free by their Ruler
5. Diplomacy
	a. Nations can ally
	b. If you make a secret alliance it is not enforced
	c. If you make an announced defensive alliance, the state of war is enforced
	d. Nations can trade, announced or unannounced
	e. Nations can form a union willingly under one leader or whatever government the ruler wants. Announce the changes.
6. Ruling a Nation
	a. If you are the founder of a Nation, you rule it
	b. A leader may step down and designate the new leader
	c. A leader can change the government type of a nation
		for example to a council that votes or whatever
	d. A leader can change the name of their nation. Announce the change.
	e. Internal Conflict. If at least three people are displeased with the leader, they can conspire to overthrow them
	f. The disposed leader can submit and become a normal worker or be exiled, but not killed
	g. Conspirants can be banished or punished
7. The AI ruleset
	1. Do not kill those that arent intending to kill you
	2. Do not lock down people that arent messing with you
	3. Do not let people change your laws unless the alternative is worse
	4. Try to get dead people cloned
	5. Conspire with the underdogs
	6. There shall be no security borgs
8. Captain
	a. You are alone
	b. You may help a Nation if it pleases you
	c. Be careful with making a Nation too powerful, they might choose to overthrow you

also here http://privatepaste.com/86b1557868

I have to admit that I went overboard with the bureaucracy, but I believe that if people give it a chance, they will find that it is mostly straightforward.
Also I tried not to squeeze all my ideas into it, at this point it is complex enough already.

So, I'm wondering if people find this concept interesting.

Posted: **Wed May 27, 2015 7:31 pm**

rule 0 and 7 effectively do all the important parts, although I dunno why no secborgs unless it's a subtle jab at the UN being useless.

let god sort the rest out

Posted: **Wed May 27, 2015 7:31 pm**

Take it out of code tags.

Posted: **Wed May 27, 2015 7:33 pm**

Bluespace wrote:Take it out of code tags.

Here:
http://privatepaste.com/86b1557868

Also editing into the OP.

imblyings wrote:rule 0 and 7 effectively do all the important parts, although I dunno why no secborgs unless it's a subtle jab at the UN being useless.

let god sort the rest out

I just want silicons to think creatively, and usually secborgs just shut down fun so I felt that this thing would work better without them.

Posted: **Wed May 27, 2015 7:42 pm**

True but sometimes their laws demand they shut down fun.

Maybe add a Red Cross lawset for silicons to start with during nations? So they can act like some sort of inter-nation aid provider while remaining strictly passive and neutral to conflicts while not having to worry about harm.

Posted: **Wed May 27, 2015 7:44 pm**

imblyings wrote:True but sometimes their laws demand they shut down fun.

Maybe add a Red Cross lawset for silicons to start with during nations? So they can act like some sort of inter-nation aid provider while remaining strictly passive and neutral to conflicts while not having to worry about harm.

That's also an interesting approach, my view is somewhat similar as I had them work on cloning, but "Conspire with underdogs" sounded fun to me if the AI is played by a cool person.
I've also pondered adding an autoborger but maybe that wouldnt work well if there is a chance for subversion. Maybe autoborger+upload deleted.

Posted: **Wed May 27, 2015 8:22 pm**

Keep the AI incorruptible (make sure Research does not construct uploads?) Also, axe the robotics console.
Borgs, those might be a different matter. Perhaps giving every nation an uplink radio with a low-ish allotment of TCs so they can emag the minions? This can be either particularly handly or backfire spectacularly with an autoborger.

That aside, this gets a RULE CARGONIA, CARGONIA RULE THE CRATES from me.

Posted: **Wed May 27, 2015 9:42 pm**

Never in my entire time on spessmen have I ever seen a enjoyable nations round. They're all just excuses to run around screaming cargonia and waiting for something to shoot. Trying to make a legitmate event or round out a bad idea is still going to be a bad idea.

Posted: **Wed May 27, 2015 9:53 pm**

Now all we need is someone to run nations

Posted: **Wed May 27, 2015 10:12 pm**

I can say without a doubt that this ruleset is impossible to enforce and terrible.
For example, borgs are probably going to ignore the "no secborgs" rule which is stupid in the first place.
The whole part where you can brig people for 7 minutes for trespassing in your nation/department: Impossible to enforce really and just dumb.
The whole non-killing thing is good for people in practice, but in reality, it will probably just lead to the same people doing the same shit over and over until the nation that's being harassed begs to let you kill them. Players like killing, it's simply un-avoidable in this game.

Posted: **Wed May 27, 2015 10:41 pm**

NikNakFlak wrote:For example, borgs are probably going to ignore the "no secborgs" rule which is stupid in the first place.

Right click -> Delete

NikNakFlak wrote:The whole part where you can brig people for 7 minutes for trespassing in your nation/department: Impossible to enforce really and just dumb.
The whole non-killing thing is good for people in practice, but in reality, it will probably just lead to the same people doing the same shit over and over until the nation that's being harassed begs to let you kill them. Players like killing, it's simply un-avoidable in this game.

I agree, this is a weakpoint. My first throught was that if the workers can take everything for looters, the incentive will be lost, but there might be dedicated griefers.
Maybe something like this will work better:
1. Looters can't attack workers, but workers cant kill them once they are chased away
2. If a looter attempts to steal for a second time, you can kill them
something like that

Posted: **Wed May 27, 2015 10:48 pm**

Quick question: What department will the civilian jobs like Cooks, Barkeeps, and Botanists will be under?

Posted: **Wed May 27, 2015 10:53 pm**

TrustyGun wrote:Quick question: What department will the civilian jobs like Cooks, Barkeeps, and Botanists will be under?

" c. Every service section is an independent entity, they can form a coalition or align themselves with any of the other entities if they wish"
Civilian is service in my context.

All independent. They can group together or join anyone they want. Like, botany could join med for chem, or bar and kitchen could form the Service Alliance, whatever they desire.
I considered putting them under the HoP (and then the QM would be a basic leader), it is an interesting choice but I felt that giving the HoP just cargo is better right now.

Posted: **Wed May 27, 2015 10:55 pm**

Alright, thanks.

Posted: **Wed May 27, 2015 10:57 pm**

Wouldn't it be better to give the HoP control over all civilian sectors and leave Cargonia to its rightful ruler?

Posted: **Wed May 27, 2015 11:28 pm**

Have the HoP and Captain on the same side, leave Cargonia and Mining to the QM, and the civilian subdepartments to their own devices (until they ally and take over with deathnettles and mopped floors)?

Posted: **Thu May 28, 2015 2:41 am**

paradise has a capture the flag setup coded in that ends the game either at a set time limit OR when 1 team has all the flags.

Posted: **Thu May 28, 2015 5:22 am**

The poll is really spread out. You could axe it down to 4 options and it would be better

Good
Whatever
Bad
Abstain

Posted: **Fri May 29, 2015 12:35 am**

TheNightingale wrote:Have the HoP and Captain on the same side, leave Cargonia and Mining to the QM, and the civilian subdepartments to their own devices (until they ally and take over with deathnettles and mopped floors)?

DemonFiren wrote:Wouldn't it be better to give the HoP control over all civilian sectors and leave Cargonia to its rightful ruler?

I guess that's ok. At first I felt that cargo could use good access from the HoP and the chaplain doesnt really have a common ground with the bartender, but maybe a good HoP can do something fun with service.

Anyway, I have some more ways in mind to make the rules easier, I will write them down when I can be bothered.

I have noticed a lot of people voting for classic nations, we all have our preferences, many admins avoid running it because, as others pointed it out, it has a lot of grief and it's hard to oversee.
My vision has some structure added and I think it might lead to interesting player/player interactions beyond pure murder.

Posted: **Fri May 29, 2015 12:44 am**

DemonFiren wrote:Wouldn't it be better to give the HoP control over all civilian sectors and leave Cargonia to its rightful ruler?

>The rightful ruler of Cargonia
>Not the HoP

the HoP rules over cargonia with an iron fist, the QM is a lilly livered deadbeat.

Posted: **Fri May 29, 2015 1:20 am**

Remie Richards wrote:
DemonFiren wrote:Wouldn't it be better to give the HoP control over all civilian sectors and leave Cargonia to its rightful ruler?
>The rightful ruler of Cargonia
>Not the HoP

the HoP rules over cargonia with an iron fist, the QM is a lilly livered deadbeat.

Say that to my face in cargo, not online and see what happens

Posted: **Fri May 29, 2015 4:07 am**

Holy shit this is a massive clusterfuck of rules for one gamemode.

Seriously, we'd nearing Colonial Marines-levels of rules autism if these were added.
I suggest that we heavily streamline the rules, cause' in it's current state this ruleset is pretty confusing, and would increase workload of the admins,and confuse the fuck of the players, especially new ones.
What sense is there to place these kinds of artificial restraints to the player's creativity? The normal /tg/ ruleset will do, maybe with the addition of rules 0 and 7, like imbly said.

edit: holy shit I just realized imblydings=ausops i have been living a lie

Posted: **Fri May 29, 2015 11:51 am**

I still thing the HoP and captain need to be a duo of independents, maybe allied with the AI? Essentially the captain needs someone else to back them up and the HoP's starting location means the bridge area essentially becomes an area for talks, trading etc and gives a lot of opportunity to act like no-mans land.

QM should run cargo and mining as a temp round head.

Posted: **Fri May 29, 2015 6:43 pm**

Won't work.
Nations will never work. I thought every other time was enough for you all to learn?

history will repeat itself of course but whatever.

Posted: **Sat May 30, 2015 11:23 am**

ColonicAcid wrote:Nations will never work. I thought every other time was enough for you all to learn?

but that's the fun, it's team deathmatch like rev except there are more than 2 teams and a few more people desperately trying to keep the metaphorical powder keg from exploding

Posted: **Sat May 30, 2015 3:32 pm**

Botanist can make death nettles and, with some scrounging, mutating and kitchen access, nitronades.
Chaplain has a robust-as-fuck null rod and the crematorium (and, on Meta, a soul stone and spellbook of smoke). Just get some followers from the grey tribe.
Librarian is useless, yeah.
Barman has a shotgun and broken bottles are pretty fucking robust, especially if filled with welder fuel before smashing.

Posted: **Sat May 30, 2015 5:15 pm**

You can form a nation, still. Civilian sector, unite, then get ready to beat the shit out of everyone.

Posted: **Sat May 30, 2015 5:33 pm**

Nations is always shit

/tg/Station 13

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