/tg/Station 13

Can I get a rundown of exactly what happened with probably the most prolific coder this community has ever had, and why he was blacklisted and not given a second chance even though he's done more work towards this game than anyone I can think of?

He was an asshole, sure, but if anyone had tenure, he did.

Because he was cancer, he'd shit on the community with "not a democracy" or "Join github so I can ignore you in two places" and his shitty elitist attitude to the point where he was widening the gap between coderbus and the players daily. He'd even bring that shit into disconnected points just to stir up more disagreements and drama and he really had to go.

I missed the final straw, but I'm told it involved the watercooler topic/ vent about life thread and encouraging suicide to a player who was contemplating it.

Paprika made many good contributions to the game, however for each good contribution to the game he has made a equally poor contribution to the game. This by itself is noteworthy, but as will be pointed out is not grounds for blacklisting by itself.

My information behind the scenes is limited but essentially Paprika exhibited a vile and toxic attitude both on the forums, the IRC and other forms of communication over a long and consistent period of time. This behaviour plus his poor contributions to the game, ranging from minor item removals to entire reworks of game systems, kept piling and piling on.

The straw that, seemingly, broke the camels back was when Paprika encouraged a community member, who was very suicidal, to actually go ahead and commit suicide, which culminated in said community member in (I think) attempting suicide.

All this resulted in both the coder and admin administrations blacklisting Paprika.

Steelpoint wrote:The straw that, seemingly, broke the camels back was when Paprika encouraged a community member, who was very suicidal, to actually go ahead and commit suicide, which culminated in said community member in (I think) attempting suicide.

This pushed Paprika beyond the moral event horizon for me, and for a lot of other people. Deliberately encouraging a suicidal person to commit suicide is, in my opinion, equivalent to (attempted) murder, and I absolutely, honestly believe he should never ever be allowed to return.

I always saw Paprika as a good coder, who more or less started to change the game to suit his needs and wants and never cared for the playerbase other than seeing them salty on the forums. One of the worst things aside from nearly making someone kill themselves was putting a poll over IIRC Ausops security sprites. THe end of the polling showed that players chose Ausops sprites over Pap's change to them, but instead of leaving them alone he flat out in the thread said something along the lines of.

Paprika wrote: Oh the poll doesn't matter at all, I'm still gonna change it.

Stated above he straight up made it Paprika Station 13 because nearly all the some what good changes he made, there were loads of just plain stupid and unusual code changes. He removed donk pockets, DONK POCKETS.

Paprika really wasn't as bad as some people make him out to be. Sure, he can be a real asshole, but as everyone stated, he was a great coder. As for the final straw, from what I heard he didn't intentionally encourage someone to suicide, there was another situation going on and he missed the part where the player mentioned being suicidal and he said something over the situation, not towards the player, and it was taken as negative encouragement

On that note, I find it odd that something like that was the "Final straw". Sure, its cruel to say such things, but a lot of these type of things are constantly said OOC and its never taken very seriously, do we really know how the other person will react to what we say?

"Go die faget"<Person saying this joking> "K"<This person is hurt now>

This may have been just a reason to give him the big boot, if it was anyone else it might've been a bit less harsh. I know we aren't all a bunch of bitches and bastards and we do try to keep things from being too personal, but this is the internet,its going to be cruel and unforgiving at times. It not might be the best thing to be on if you have suicidal thoughts, as results vary if it may or may not push you further down the hole. Also, another thing about the internet, no matter how much effort you put into response or explaination, it can easily be ignored, just like this one

I still remember that time he made that big, steaming shitpost in that topic about the Doc Scratch suit getting removed. He hadn't actually removed it, he didn't actually hate the thing the suit was from, and I think he was even willing to add it back later, but he still managed to derail the thread for a few pages, before it finally got locked/deleted, for no apparent reason other than to be a dick.

Desucake wrote:Paprika really wasn't as bad as some people make him out to be. Sure, he can be a real asshole, but as everyone stated, he was a great coder. As for the final straw, from what I heard he didn't intentionally encourage someone to suicide, there was another situation going on and he missed the part where the player mentioned being suicidal and he said something over the situation, not towards the player, and it was taken as negative encouragement

On that note, I find it odd that something like that was the "Final straw". Sure, its cruel to say such things, but a lot of these type of things are constantly said OOC and its never taken very seriously, do we really know how the other person will react to what we say?

"Go die faget"<Person saying this joking> "K"<This person is hurt now>

This may have been just a reason to give him the big boot, if it was anyone else it might've been a bit less harsh. I know we aren't all a bunch of bitches and bastards and we do try to keep things from being too personal, but this is the internet,its going to be cruel and unforgiving at times. It not might be the best thing to be on if you have suicidal thoughts, as results vary if it may or may not push you further down the hole. Also, another thing about the internet, no matter how much effort you put into response or explaination, it can easily be ignored, just like this one

I'm seeing things from your side, I feel like the Butthurt Brigade had too much say on his permabanning.

He's done more than any of us, and while he was an asshole, and I'm the first one to get angry over Coderbus constructing a criticism-proof autism fort, he usually relented after some argument when he was wrong.

Cutting the artist out of his work is plain shitty, and using a pandering, SJW-tier argument like 'Wahhh he told somebody to kill themselves' is ridiculous, as they shouldn't be fucking retarded enough to discuss that shit on the community forum of a 2d Spessmen autism simulator to begin with. Twisted humor has always abounded in this community, and unless someone can shed more light on it, this looks like a purely political removal shod with weak evidence.

You're just ignoring the testimonies of his toxicity, Sorry your special butt buddy got banned, but he was an assclam, and I'm glad he's gone.
it was just like Uhangi, Glad he's gone too.


Being a coder only gets you so far, you can't piss on the whole playerbase forever and tell them it's rain while giggling into your hand about how mad people are.

Falamazeer wrote:You're just ignoring the testimonies of his toxicity, Sorry your special butt buddy got banned.

Says the guy with a Terbs avatar.

I've never spoken to Paprika personally, and I thought he was a powergamey prick in game, but I've been playing /tg/ for five years and he was always an institution. I respect the work he put in, as should everyone.

Ok while I'll give him credit for learning fast, he wasn't a great coder, or "An artist cut out of his work" lmao, he was an ok coder with a drive to fix/produce/remove (more so that last one)
Yes he did quite a bit of work for the game, but the majority of you weren't around to see him ask and 70% of the time receive the code from other members of the bus or via steam (I know this because he'd talk to me a lot on steam, I assume he did so for some other maintainers but still, the point stands)

He wasn't kicked out for his code, he was kicked out for his hilariously bad attitude, one such thing quite petty and personal to me (Won't share any further since after he was das boot'd out of here he admitted it was deliberate and apologised) His comments on suicide were just an excuse to kick things up a gear and realise we don't want people like that hanging around.

A valid comeback and well made, props where props are due.

Remie Richards wrote:Ok while I'll give him credit for learning fast, he wasn't a great coder, or "An artist cut out of his work" lmao, he was an ok coder with a drive to fix/produce/remove (more so that last one)
Yes he did quite a bit of work for the game, but the majority of you weren't around to see him ask and 70% of the time receive the code from other members of the bus or via steam (I know this because he'd talk to me a lot on steam, I assume he did so for some other maintainers but still, the point stands)

He wasn't kicked out for his code, he was kicked out for his hilariously bad attitude, one such thing quite petty and personal to me (Won't share any further since after he was das boot'd out of here he admitted it was deliberate and apologised) His comments on suicide were just an excuse to kick things up a gear and realise we don't want people like that hanging around.

>Not grasping a simple figure of speech

He has done a shitload of work here, and that should be respected.

I work in professional IT. Most coders are not people people. This is a factotum.

I'd rather have an honest asshole than a load of h-u-g-b-o-x-y sycophants who are terrified of speaking the truth for fear they'll hurt somebody's fee fees, as that behavior will eternally lead to poor product. Stop pretending this is Tumblr.

Also, the fact that h-u-g-b-o-x is censored is disgusting.

Tunder wrote: I'd rather have an honest asshole than a load of h-u-g-b-o-x-y sycophants

Shut up faggot.

Tunder wrote: Stop pretending this is Tumblr.

Nobody's asking for tumblr, we're asking for decent human beings, k thanks bai.

He was pretty polite to me. ;_;

Remie Richards wrote:

Tunder wrote: Stop pretending this is Tumblr.

Nobody's asking for tumblr, we're asking for decent human beings, k thanks bai.

Please define a 'decent human being' for me, because last I checked we have been perpetually inundated with all matter of fuckups and sexual deviants, and I haven't heard anybody spout this shit about 'decent human beings' regarding them from the Tumblrite echochamber in all the time I've been here.

Paprika worked his ass off. Sure I hated a lot of what he did, but most was vital, and nobody has the right to pan that just because he wasn't a nice person.

You've not been here for Paprika. You've not seen what a massive autistic cockbite he was.

Please at least try making informed decisions.

DemonFiren wrote:You've not been here for Paprika. You've not seen what a massive autistic cockbite he was.

Please at least try making informed decisions.

I've been here on the forums off and on since 2012. In all that time I have seen Paprika talk a lot of sense and give a lot of valid criticism because it needed to be heard, not because he was a toxic shitter.

He is rough around the edges, but so are most folks here, and he wasn't immune to discussions regarding his coding works like some other cockbites here.

Guess what, he was under mod approval posting.

god damn it I am sick of that "too bad i hurt your fee fees this is not a hug box" argument, it's just an excuse assholes like you make up so you can stay an asshole

Tunder wrote:Can I get a rundown of exactly what happened with probably the most prolific coder this community has ever had, and why he was blacklisted and not given a second chance even though he's done more work towards this game than anyone I can think of?

He was an asshole, sure, but if anyone had tenure, he did.

He was blacklisted THEN HE GOT A SECOND CHANCE and was reblacklisted.

>if you're not trying to get people to kill themselves you're a SJW

Good thread. Paprika can go make his own "art" elsewhere, this game isnt his work, it belongs to the community, and people did not like his changes

>Tunder makes another "why is someone I liked banned" thread

Did you ever even TALK to him for more than a minute? You could ask him the most simple question and he'd shit all over for no reason, then play it off like he was joking.

The official reason is he apparently thought it was hilarious that someone in the community slashed his arms open trying to kill himself.

The real reason was he was an insufferable cunt.

Remie Richards wrote:Ok while I'll give him credit for learning fast, he wasn't a great coder, or "An artist cut out of his work" lmao, he was an ok coder with a drive to fix/produce/remove (more so that last one)
Yes he did quite a bit of work for the game, but the majority of you weren't around to see him ask and 70% of the time receive the code from other members of the bus or via steam (I know this because he'd talk to me a lot on steam, I assume he did so for some other maintainers but still, the point stands)

He wasn't kicked out for his code, he was kicked out for his hilariously bad attitude, one such thing quite petty and personal to me (Won't share any further since after he was das boot'd out of here he admitted it was deliberate and apologised) His comments on suicide were just an excuse to kick things up a gear and realise we don't want people like that hanging around.

Also this. People keep saying he was a great coder. He was a beginner coder that mass pumped out prs and literally would say 'someone else go back and fix my shit haha' and they would. Even I as a new coder have had to fix bugs from paprikas prs because he didnt test or check or even really care. He wanted a lot of prs. He liked to remove things. And he was learning constantly. I dont see any of the credit of his work going to the coders that helped him do the actual code instead you call him a great coder. He was dedicated for sure but by no means advanced.

Vekter wrote:>Tunder makes another "why is someone I liked banned" thread

I already said I didn't like him, but that doesn't mean I can't appreciate his efforts or think that he wasn't given a fair shake.

Mandurrh wrote:

Also this. People keep saying he was a great coder. He was a beginner coder that mass pumped out prs and literally would say 'someone else go back and fix my shit haha' and they would. Even I as a new coder have had to fix bugs from paprikas prs because he didnt test or check or even really care. He wanted a lot of prs. He liked to remove things. And he was learning constantly. I dont see any of the credit of his work going to the coders that helped him do the actual code instead you call him a great coder. He was dedicated for sure but by no means advanced.

I didn't even say he was a great coder, but that he did a lot of work, and put a lot of time in.

Tunder wrote:

Vekter wrote:>Tunder makes another "why is someone I liked banned" thread

I already said I didn't like him, but that doesn't mean I can't appreciate his efforts or think that he wasn't given a fair shake.

Mandurrh wrote:

Also this. People keep saying he was a great coder. He was a beginner coder that mass pumped out prs and literally would say 'someone else go back and fix my shit haha' and they would. Even I as a new coder have had to fix bugs from paprikas prs because he didnt test or check or even really care. He wanted a lot of prs. He liked to remove things. And he was learning constantly. I dont see any of the credit of his work going to the coders that helped him do the actual code instead you call him a great coder. He was dedicated for sure but by no means advanced.

I didn't even say he was a great coder, but that he did a lot of work, and put a lot of time in.

Yes but for every fast produced poorly done pr he pumped out he created 10x more work for the rest of the coding team. And you missed my comment about the fact he was blacklisted for a week then given a second chance and reblacklisted again. That second chance you want so badly for your friend? He had it. If you'd like to hold someone responsible for him not being in this community look no further than paprika himself.

You know what's ironic? How there is so much talk about his "shitty" attitude, but the second one person causally disagrees, most of the people become just as obnoxious and toxic as you describe him. With all due respect, I think what also got him in hot water was he talked back to the toxic part of the community and it was only going to lead to more trouble. Again, I said part, not the full, there is still a lot of people that do some good here, such as the coders and admins.

Pap was no saint, he was a great coder, but he was just too vocal with some subjects and again pissed off the wrong people. I don't just say this cause he is a friend, I say this cause I've landed on the hot spot plenty of times, and one thing that has always annoyed me is the fact people love to make someone to be that one common enemy, so whenever they are spoke about they can all join together against them, acting just as bad as they are said to be. No one is perfect, everyone has their problems and sources of grief, whether it be real life or not, a lot of us need to remember that before tossing stones. (Lol dramatic much?)

Also, the reason why he got re-blacklisted was he was being stupid and thought puttng a pull request on gibhub was a good idea, which he was banned from.

I am increasingly amused by the fact that 'toxic' has become something of a buzzword concerning disliked coders.

His ass was too fat, if you alienate everybody, don't be surprised when you get locked out

Desucake wrote:You know what's ironic? How there is so much talk about his "shitty" attitude, but the second one person causally disagrees, most of the people become just as obnoxious and toxic as you describe him. With all due respect, I think what also got him in hot water was he talked back to the toxic part of the community and it was only going to lead to more trouble. Again, I said part, not the full, there is still a lot of people that do some good here, such as the coders and admins.

Pap was no saint, he was a great coder, but he was just too vocal with some subjects and again pissed off the wrong people. I don't just say this cause he is a friend, I say this cause I've landed on the hot spot plenty of times, and one thing that has always annoyed me is the fact people love to make someone to be that one common enemy, so whenever they are spoke about they can all join together against them, acting just as bad as they are said to be. No one is perfect, everyone has their problems and sources of grief, whether it be real life or not, a lot of us need to remember that before tossing stones. (Lol dramatic much?)

Also, the reason why he got re-blacklisted was he was being stupid and thought puttng a pull request on gibhub was a good idea, which he was banned from.

I can't speak for anyone but myself but Ive always been nice to paprika and always received over the top hostility in return. Still Im not calling him names or defaming his character in my responses.

> the reason why he got re-blacklisted was he was being stupid and thought puttng a pull request on gibhub was a good idea, which he was banned from

That's not correct at all. I know personally because what happened was he spammed my pr with like 30 comments in caps locks and nasty comments. Evading his github ban and breaking his deal to keep his attitude in check.

Man, i have read through this thread and have asked, but still have zero idea of what Paprika actually did beyond a few key points. Is there anyway at all to get the full story?

Cuboos wrote:Man, i have read through this thread and have asked, but still have zero idea of what Paprika actually did beyond a few key points. Is there anyway at all to get the full story?

Manduur, he told me right when it happened. He evaded the ban and he posted on gibhub, which sent him right back on the list. No offense,(pls take no offense I wuv you o god), but are you sure he said that stuff? He's one to talk trash his own way, without having caps like most buttmad remarks. I only ask cause you make that mistake before and thought that I was calling you names on a thread, just cause the person's name was DESUDESUDESU, which I'd never do ;3.

Desucake wrote:Manduur, he told me right when it happened. He evaded the ban and he posted on gibhub, which sent him right back on the list. No offense,(pls take no offense I wuv you o god), but are you sure he said that stuff? He's one to talk trash his own way, without having caps like most buttmad remarks. I only ask cause you make that mistake before and thought that I was calling you names on a thread, just cause the person's name was DESUDESUDESU, which I'd never do ;3.

Of course you can check the pr still or confirm with scaredy/cheridan if you don't believe me. Its all still up. Theres a pastebin floating around also of me telling ooc anyone that bothers paprika(after his return) would be in as much trouble as him if he was to start something. Then me speaking with paprika in deadchat about that pr and going over what it entailed. He signed off immediately after getting all the pr info and spammed it. It was a big theatrical thing because some maintainers had said yes and some said no and it got locked while there were 100 comments still going now about paprika trying to get the pr ruined blah blah blah. It wasn't like a silly little might be interpreted wrong but a big paprika style dramatic affair.


Edit: All of paps comments on the pr are gone now bc of his ban but you can still see the 'ban evading already paprika' and other comments. Only 64 on the pr now.

Tunder wrote:

Desucake wrote:On that note, I find it odd that something like that was the "Final straw". Sure, its cruel to say such things, but a lot of these type of things are constantly said OOC and its never taken very seriously, do we really know how the other person will react to what we say?

paprika did nothing wrong

IIRC there were some seriously fucking graphic photographs of the suicide attempt and it's a pretty touchy subject. It was less paprika saying "lol kill urself" and more like him verbally abusing someone who was already at the edge of his limits. I think pap also once said on singulo something like "I only did it because he kept harassing (read: posting negative feedback) me in my feedback threads."
Paprika made some solid changes like bleeding and defibs, nobody can deny that, be he was singlehandedly the worst possible influence on our community that we've had since I joined. Letting him back in is kind of a bad idea no matter how you look at it.

Not to mention, the true final straw of paprika getting permanently banned was when he ban evaded on the github by posting under an account "NotPaprika" on a PR that reverted one of his shitty changes.

Cuboos wrote:Man, i have read through this thread and have asked, but still have zero idea of what Paprika actually did beyond a few key points. Is there anyway at all to get the full story?

In short, he was an asshole to everyone, all the time. If you seek the truth, you will only get a bunch of angry people badmouthing him. Just know that he was a substantially bigger dick than the rest of us are.

PKPenguin321 wrote: Paprika made some solid changes like bleeding and defibs, nobody can deny that

I think those are ports, but don't quote me on that.

I saw both sides of Paprika. They were a voice of reason... Sometimes. However, I've also seen(and been subjected to, to which I was butthurt about, then later got over) the caustic side of them. Holy crap dude, the toxicity of the person was utterly disgusting. I'm sorry, while we all sling vitriol at each other(and never change TG station, never change), there were limits. There were bounds of reason. Papsmear was byond the pale. Far beyond the Pale.

I can't really speak about Paprika since I never really interacted with him or even saw him interact with something else, but in regards to the "he was an asshole" vs. "he was still productive" argument, it boils down to it: was it just a matter of "muh feels", or did his attitude actually interfere with the productivity of the rest of the codebus? If the former is the case, tough shit, you have to deal with assholes in life. If he was actually disruptive, the admins were right in giving him the boot.

He was still productive, sure, but that was only maybe one out of 20 or 30 PRs that were actually wanted by the playerbase. He made shitty changes all the time that nobody liked in addition to being a fucking asshole. I suppose on the surface it looks like a "muh feels" issue, but really, I guess you just had to be there. He was pretty bad.

Luke Cox wrote:tough shit, you have to deal with assholes in life.

this is a terrible attitude to have though, it is exactly why assholes can continue to be assholes

he was a huge jerk who just loved to ram through changes everyone was against

dude was a walking shitstorm that would go off on nothing for no reason. he would constantly shitpost, even after he was on mod-approved posting, he would spam OOC with vitriolic garbage, he was incredibly smug

for months and months and months and months. i only barely interacted with him because i'm not part of the bus but it was fucking bad. i can't imagine what it was like dealing with that everyday. there are surely some buddhas in the bus to tolerate it for that long.

Luke Cox wrote: If the former is the case, tough shit, you have to deal with assholes in life

Not in this case, which is why he's gone

Ayy lmoa

>Banned Paprika mostly because of negative comments he made towards a potentially suicidal person

>Banned Terbs even though he was openly borderline suicidal




Ayy

Scott wrote:

PKPenguin321 wrote: Paprika made some solid changes like bleeding and defibs, nobody can deny that

I think those are ports, but don't quote me on that.

Not only were they ports but bleeding literally broke the game for a few days while paprika denied bleeding was the reason even though we told him that its exactly the same as the last time bleeding was ported.

Guess what, it was totally bleeding.

Tunder wrote:>Banned Paprika mostly because of negative comments he made towards a potentially suicidal person

>Banned Terbs even though he was openly borderline suicidal

Paprika got banned for way more that just that. It was the final straw though. Terbs was also banned for a bunch of things, being an asshole to almost everyone was not one of them.

PKPenguin321 wrote:He was still productive, sure, but that was only maybe one out of 20 or 30 PRs that were actually wanted by the playerbase. He made shitty changes all the time that nobody liked in addition to being a fucking asshole. I suppose on the surface it looks like a "muh feels" issue, but really, I guess you just had to be there. He was pretty bad.

I'm assuming that was probably what actually got him kicked.

Tunder wrote:>Banned Terbs even though he was openly borderline suicidal

Terbs was banned for replying to someone's post encouraging them to commit suicide. Essentially what happened was, the player (whose name escapes me) posted a few paragraphs of how sick they were of their life and how they were considering suicide, and Terbs openly supported the idea and gave them multiple reasons to do it. It's less him going "do it faggot" and more "yeah that's a great idea, here's why suicide will solve all your problems".

Terbs was removed for being a potential IRL threat to the community. Pap was removed for being a cunt.

Now they both have something in common: They're not coming back, ever.

Luke Cox wrote:I'm assuming that was probably what actually got him kicked.

No, legit, he was kicked by an0n for being a constant negative influence on the community. You could write the most respectful and constructive criticism comment in the world and he'd fly off the handle, talking about how you were "attacking" him. Do it more than 3 times and all of a sudden you're "harrasing him on all his PRs".

There's a huge difference between someone saying "lol kill yourself my man" and someone openly taunting another person in the community for failing to kill themselves.

He was just generally a really shitty person to talk to, and the community is better off without him.

You know how much everyone hated goofball right after he removed tgchem, back when goofchem didn't actually work?

Thats pretty much what I thought about paprika all the time. Not to mention doing bullshit like bundling a much-wanted change along with a bunch of shitty ones and holding the desired ones 'hostage'

Hated...?
Don't talk like it's in the past man. Hate till goofchem gone forever. :^)

This thread is more polarized than the Terbs thread.