RP is at a dangerous low

tuypo1 · Post by **tuypo1** » Thu Oct 15, 2015 6:57 am #126433

Bottom post of the previous page:

auctualy the logs only update every 24 hours it may not be up yet (or is that only the public logs)

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Thu Oct 15, 2015 6:58 am #126434

The public logs are on the delay, and those don't show ahelps or PMs anyway.

Not-Dorsidarf · Thu Oct 15, 2015 8:01 am

Saegrimr wrote:
tuypo1 wrote:i got warned yesterday for executing a confirmed traitor as warden
You sure? Because I just went and checked the last 3 days worth of logs, and you've never been adminPMed or even have a note on your account about it.

Time to summon the dread niknakflak, detector of dupe accounts and annihilator of multikeyers, methinks.

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Thu Oct 15, 2015 8:16 am #126451

Despite my initial tone, i'd rather not derail this into a witch hunt and more "Take unrelated comments with a grain of :salt:."

tuypo1 · Post by **tuypo1** » Thu Oct 15, 2015 8:42 am #126453

really i thought your initial post was one of confusion. But yeah its not a big deal and i will remember the guys name when his trialmin review goes up anyway.

Back on topic making traitors not kill people is a horible idea as is stoping people from killing traitors your in space you cant just run from the danger.

Each department getting a break room could encourage people to chat with there coworkers although im not sure where you would fit them enginerings easy just put more stuf in the lobby the other departments i cant think of a spot though.

callanrockslol · Thu Oct 15, 2015 8:54 am

Either make the game ultradeadly or return fast so you have you have to RP or git gud.

Its basically impossibly to RP when the other guy will just wzste you every time.

Aranclanos · Post by **Aranclanos** » Thu Oct 15, 2015 9:52 am #126463

Is it the lag fault? Back then from roundstart the game felt really laggy, and that's how we all played it. Now that it's gone the competitive play is a possibility.
For example, the neverending rants filled with ego from amelius or forceful on ooc were considered as powergame and metagame, ending up in a ban. Now its perfectly acceptable, hell, admins encourage them too.
your name can literally be 'bad meme' and you won't get banned either.

You can have 10 different servers using /tg/ code but each one can have a different type of RP, it's all about the administration setting up the example and drawing lines on what's allowed and what isn't. Your only chance is begging to the headadmins to do something about it.

peoplearestrange · Thu Oct 15, 2015 9:52 am

I feel like these are all the wrong reasons and wrong type of situations that RP used to happen in.
I'm not talking about combat situations exensively. I mean interaction between people in departments, people acting like they're only a wall away from cold dead space, people reminding me that they are humans playing their character and not just a NPC spawned in.

I'm talking Librarians being reporters and using the newscaster; RD's being the mad scientist and trying new shit rather than rushing through Rn; QM's bossing their useless cargo crew about like a tired old boss; HoP's question why people need access, running checks on them; Captains playing judge and jury and siding with traitors in order to get more traitors reveals; people taking stupid risks; player made events in the bar that AREN'T just a rage cage; bribing; corruption; hostage situations; cyborgs acting like robots and bad mouthing the meat bags over binary as a release; Chaplin ACTUALLY trying to spread their religion or holding a burial in space; AWAY MISSIONS!

All of this stuff is there, and possible and there is SO much freedom, even if its against the rules, all it takes is a quick ahelp to ask "I Have an orginal gimmick I want to try, its X, is that ok?" Then we can bend things to make things enjoyable.

Ricotez · Post by **Ricotez** » Thu Oct 15, 2015 10:17 am #126473

tuypo1 wrote:really i thought your initial post was one of confusion. But yeah its not a big deal and i will remember the guys name when his trialmin review goes up anyway.

Back on topic making traitors not kill people is a horible idea as is stoping people from killing traitors your in space you cant just run from the danger.

Each department getting a break room could encourage people to chat with there coworkers although im not sure where you would fit them enginerings easy just put more stuf in the lobby the other departments i cant think of a spot though.

The Engineering lobby used to be their break room, but it was hardly ever used and now most of it is covered by the Security office.

Science had a break room but it was replaced with the Telelab, which in turn got replaced by the Experimental Lab. Metastation still has a Science break room but I never see it get used.

Security has a break room, it's behind the Brig. I only ever see the HoS strut around there, and people pass through on their way to guns after they emagged the maintenance or external airlocks.

Medical has never had a break room as far as I can remember but they don't really need to with the bar just 3 steps out of the front door.

Command has a luxurious conference room that only the HoP ever sees when they move between HR and the Bridge.

Supply only has a break room at the Mining Outpost, but Cargo generally lounges around the front desk or in the warehouse anyway.

Finally, the Bar is literally part of Civil and by far the most used break room, also by other departments.

Screemonster · Thu Oct 15, 2015 10:41 am

All this discussion is reminding me of the drama that Urban Dead had a few years back.

Long story short, the HEROES THE CITY NEEDS trenchcoat-clad-in-their-descriptions-even-though-there's-no-trenchcoat-item-in-game survivor players wound up copping an attitude, in-game and on the forums/wiki, that zombies were fuckin' scum that needed to just be shot down and wiped out, were constantly spouting shit on the suggestions forum like proposing ways to permakill zombies so they could be heroes and saviours etc etc etc...
And seemed to forget that like everything else that moved in that game, the zombies were controlled by other players. That these guys seemed to believe existed solely so that they could get their GRORIOUS ZOMBEH-KILLING HERO points.

One day, en-masse, the zombie groups went on-strike and stopped logging in. Suddenly the game didn't have any real point to it. Literally nothing happened in-game.

Steelpoint and tuypo1, with their "urgh just execute them" in this thread, is the same sort of thing. You're not treating them like another player, you're treating them like a thing to defeat so you can be the grand hero, something to punish for the cardinal sin of being there to actually give you something to do. And because that's all antags can expect to get from the crew, that's all they're inclined to give out. Why bother doing something interesting and clever and, god forbid, entertaining, when doing anything other than extreme combat powergame or complete stealth complete-objective-and-hide will just get you wordlessly beaten into a paste and spaced for your efforts?

TheNightingale · Thu Oct 15, 2015 10:46 am

Antagonists won't do anything interesting as long as their opponents are out for their valids.
And their opponents will be out for their valids as long as the antagonists don't do anything interesting.

The solution? Port Baymed! (And Bay Runtime. You can pick her up and stroke her and everything.)

Screemonster · Thu Oct 15, 2015 10:56 am

The latest Bay runtime can be befriended and she'll follow you around (and should you die, sit by your body and meow despondently) from what I've heard.

Then again Bay also removed bananas because they literally hate fun.

DemonFiren · Post by **DemonFiren** » Thu Oct 15, 2015 11:14 am #126490

Bay did not remove bananas, that was reverted.

Screemonster · Thu Oct 15, 2015 11:23 am

Hah

What nimrod even managed to get that merged in the first place? A guy I know is trying to work with baycode and the version he pulled (admittedly an old one now) had removed the H.O.N.K. Not just commented the code out, literally REMOVED it. But forgot to remove the entries from the mech fab.

I mean, Bay have some things that help arrpee out and make things more hard-science-fiction-serious but fucksake some of the guys they've got working for them have a pole up their asses.

Xhagi · Post by **Xhagi** » Thu Oct 15, 2015 11:40 am #126496

Looking up Bay's med system, I'd honestly not mind it at all. As someone who enjoys playing doctor rather often, I'm love if my job was more complex than it currently is and surgery more useful than removing brains and an inflamed appendix. Maybe that's because I work in the healthcare field and would enjoy if it was somewhat more realistic.

For roleplay, as someone who's done a shitton of RP over the years (in other places, I haven't even been here for a year I think), you will find it hard to get people who don't want to RP to do so. Those that like to validhunt and yell memes will continue to do so, and admins and admin events can only do so much.

To make the community contain more RP, those that want it will have to take the step to try and lead it in that direction. Myself included because I've kinda had that validhunty attitude at times. Would it be easy? No, but I think it's clear that there's a large enough group for it to make a strong effort.

Funny enough, as much as I harp on ERP and that it doesn't belong, at the least it did bring some RP in that could be interesting and funny to watch at times. Credit where it's due.

AnonymousNow · Thu Oct 15, 2015 12:33 pm

We need a more concentrated push of players getting their roleplay on, as a small handful of individuals isn't going to cut it (as I've proven myself). If we set up encouragement to roleplay in the mechanics of the game (eg. rev major/minor victories) then it'll be easier.

Also, tuypo, what did the English language ever do to you? I have to read most of your posts twice.

tuypo1 · Post by **tuypo1** » Thu Oct 15, 2015 12:39 pm #126506

peoplearestrange wrote:cyborgs acting like robots

most of those things are good ideas but silicons who act like theres not a god damed human brain in there get on my nerves sometimes

AnonymousNow · Thu Oct 15, 2015 12:50 pm

tuypo1 wrote:
peoplearestrange wrote:cyborgs acting like robots
most of those things are good ideas but silicons who act like theres not a god damed human brain in there get on my nerves sometimes

Yes, they're cyborgs for a reason - the brain is their processor, and their personality core. Positronic androids can happily embrace robotic...ness, but cyborgs should retain a little bit of flavour from their donor.

Screemonster · Thu Oct 15, 2015 1:31 pm

Aliannera wrote: Maybe that's because I work in the healthcare field and would enjoy if it was somewhat more realistic.

As someone with an engineering background I fucking love their substations and power management. Sure it basically makes the powersink worthless so it's pretty shitty for a more action-oriented server but it's nothing if not cool.
Even though the amount of power generated by basically any generator on the station fucking triggers me with how weaksauce it is IT'S A GODDAMN FUTURETECH BLACK HOLE SCIFI GENERATOR THAT CAN DESTROY THE ENTIRE STATION IF YOU DON'T SET IT UP RIGHT and you're using that for... what? a megawatt load? A MEGAWATT IS FUCK ALL, GET A FUCKIN DIESEL GENNY, JOB'S A GOOD'N

DaemonBomb · Post by **DaemonBomb** » Thu Oct 15, 2015 2:52 pm #126528

Substations and power-management are cool as fuck. I wish engineering was generally more robust. One solution to the issue of players quickly abandoning any pretense of being an employee of Nanotrasen so they can partake in the lovely combat system of SS13 is to... y'know, develop some things for use in non-combat situations. Instead of adding more weapons and more combat abilities, give Engineering some new toys, add vermin for the Janitor to take care of, give xenobiology the tools to actually study non-slime aliens (I.e. kidnapping lizardmen, changelings, shadowlings, and Xenomorphs and hooking them up to scary looking machines or injecting them with chemicals and performing experiments), make genetics fun, make medicine more interesting, ect.

Scree, I feel your pain. On the other hand, the station uses so little power that brownouts basically never happen as long as the Singularity is up. Why do machines that generate elements and alchohol from electricity use so little power? I wish we had a more complex and flexible power system where Engineers can direct and triage power depending on the station's needs would be so much cooler (And with more control over the powernet, it could be more easily sabotaged.)

Ricotez · Post by **Ricotez** » Thu Oct 15, 2015 4:49 pm #126555

I was under the impression that the Singularity Engine is a dual experiment, both to test the ability of plasma gas to generate electricity when exposed to radiation, and to safely contain a black hole to generate that radiation. As such it's probably not as potent as it could be, it's more of a "we are so cool we power our station with a black hole" thing.

onleavedontatme · Thu Oct 15, 2015 5:43 pm

Non-combat stuff is way harder to design than combat stuff, and with a lack of any actual goal for the crew, usually results in building combat stuff.

Doesnt help we nerfed most PVE stuff.

We need a lot more things to survive against or tangible goals to work towards if you want people doing their jobs.

Wyzack · Post by **Wyzack** » Thu Oct 15, 2015 7:43 pm #126596

That is an excellent point Kor and i think that is exactly what the game needs to make it less of an MLG valid kill high score type of game.

I urge anyone who really misses roleplay to give basil a try, even when there is only like ten people on. There is almost always good roleplay there, and maybe if enough people actually try it we can get a decent amount of players

TheNightingale · Thu Oct 15, 2015 8:01 pm

Wyzack wrote:That is an excellent point Kor and i think that is exactly what the game needs to make it less of an MLG valid kill high score type of game.

I urge anyone who really misses roleplay to give basil a try, even when there is only like ten people on. There is almost always good roleplay there, and maybe if enough people actually try it we can get a decent amount of players

Ten people sounds great. At the moment, it's 2 and 71 (Basil/Sybil), though - 71 is far too many, and 2 is far too few. What do?

Wyzack · Post by **Wyzack** » Thu Oct 15, 2015 8:04 pm #126607

I only play in the evenings, where 8-10 is the norm.

Post by **NikNakFlak** » Thu Oct 15, 2015 8:36 pm #126625

Not-Dorsidarf wrote:
Saegrimr wrote:
tuypo1 wrote:i got warned yesterday for executing a confirmed traitor as warden
You sure? Because I just went and checked the last 3 days worth of logs, and you've never been adminPMed or even have a note on your account about it.
Time to summon the dread niknakflak, detector of dupe accounts and annihilator of multikeyers, methinks.

Fresh piping hot admin logs coming right up

Spoiler:

Stuff

TheNightingale · Thu Oct 15, 2015 8:41 pm

"If the captain does no respond, the next highest ranking officer is the one who decides okay?"
"its also worth noting i am the only sec on station i could not spare the resources to keep a prisioner"

If the Captain's MIA and there's no HoS, the highest-ranking Security member is the Warden, I thought?

Post by **oranges** » Thu Oct 15, 2015 9:08 pm #126638

NO the next highest ranking is OWLMAN, DEFENDER OF THE TIDE, WATCHFUL VENGANCE, THE BEAK IN THE NIGHT, THE STRIKE AT DAWN.

Shitters BEWARE, WHEN OWLMAN IS NEAR

invisty · Post by **invisty** » Thu Oct 15, 2015 9:14 pm #126643

I feel that there's a lot of talk of particular ideas for improving the situation going on, but disagree that gameplay particularly combat changes are the solution.

Player behaviour is the biggest. I log in last night and see "MEMES MEMES MEMES" and "CAPSLOCK METATERMINOLOGY" all over radio. But a few rounds later, I had an excellent time playing Russian roulette with an assistant, and an equally quality round of gang where there was a bit of RP here and there. But the biggest thing that made the difference? My own attitude. If you role-play, people are more likely to role-play with you, and role-play with others. Be the change you want to be - PRs will only achieve so much.

That doesn't take care of the antagonistically obnoxious anti-RP types, however. That would be more easily addressed by policy than PRs.

AnonymousNow · Thu Oct 15, 2015 9:52 pm

TheNightingale wrote:"If the captain does no respond, the next highest ranking officer is the one who decides okay?"
"its also worth noting i am the only sec on station i could not spare the resources to keep a prisioner"

If the Captain's MIA and there's no HoS, the highest-ranking Security member is the Warden, I thought?

Highest-ranking OFFICER.

I know you think that means security, and it's obfuscated somewhat by security officers being called as such, but heads of staff are next on the list, starting with the HoP and then anyone who'll respond and make a judgement call.

Zilenan91 · Post by **Zilenan91** » Thu Oct 15, 2015 9:59 pm #126688

I've said it before, /tg/ can really take a lot of queues from Lifeweb about how we can induce more RP. The reason they have so much there despite such low rules isn't because of the constant danger, it's because there are so many mechanics put in place to organically encourage it.

tuypo1 · Post by **tuypo1** » Thu Oct 15, 2015 11:57 pm #126736

the really funny thing is the traitor thought that not having an id is not suspicious.

tuypo1 · Post by **tuypo1** » Fri Oct 16, 2015 12:00 am #126738

we could try to encourage more use of the theater

Not-Dorsidarf · Fri Oct 16, 2015 7:28 am

Seriously trying to play D&D (or equivalent) in the library every shift gets so much RP done. Shouting at other people for climbing on the table, screams of "Oh really?!?!" when ";RAGING MAGES", and, of course, D&D.

bandit · Post by **bandit** » Fri Oct 16, 2015 7:33 am #126844

The problem is one of creativity and initiative. Every time I try to do a RP thing, no one participates, or if they do it's only a few seconds. You can't complain about there being no RP if you yourself do not encourage the people who do.

This goes for admins as well. The shift toward disliking admins pressing buttons has resulted, in practice, in RP-driven events almost completely dying off.

Post by **lumipharon** » Fri Oct 16, 2015 8:34 am #126846

Admins press buttons all the time though. But 95% of the time it's just ebin memes and shitting up the round with ragin autism mages and spawning crabs etc.

Stickymayhem · Wed Oct 13, 2021 6:17 pm

lumipharon wrote:Admins press buttons all the time though. But 95% of the time it's just ebin memes and shitting up the round with ragin autism mages and spawning crabs etc.

Because why put effort into rp driven stuff when it just spawns a dozen complaints no matter what direction you go in.

GMPC?

WHY DOESN'T A PLAYER GET THE ROLE STOP KEEPING ALL THE FUN FOR YOURSELF

PC?

WHY DID THE GMPC MURDER ME STOP MAKING MURDERBONE EVENTS

High effort build?

LOL WHATEVER BURN EVERYTHING DOWN 20 MINUTE SHUTTLE LET'S GTFO

Restrict shuttle for high effort build?

WOW WTF I WANT A NEW ANTAG ROLL RAILROADING

Push random buttons?

Yay more antag rolls/aliens/this round can end so I can roll again.

It's low effort, most people who actually play on the server like it consistently and it doesn't take any time at all meaning you don't need to find that fucking impossible balance between cool high effort event and keeping people entertained until it's ready (Because we still don't have any good tools for that shit and people have no patience) with something interesting enough to keep people on station without being intense enough to destroy the station.

J_Madison · Post by **J_Madison** » Fri Oct 16, 2015 12:36 pm #126883

Remember to Ahelp your side of the story before you validate a shitter memer. Saves you from being summarily banned.

tuypo1 · Post by **tuypo1** » Fri Oct 16, 2015 2:43 pm #126903

Stickymayhem wrote:
lumipharon wrote:(Because we still don't have any good tools for that shit and people have no patience)

well i suppose thats the solution get those tools (although it would probably be to big a coding effort)

Wyzack · Post by **Wyzack** » Fri Oct 16, 2015 2:57 pm #126908

Stickymayhem wrote:Depressing stuff

This really is the sad reality of our server. People get so fucking completely buttblasted when anything deviates from a normal round and scream at the admins. It has gotten so bad that when an admin hops on basil once in a blue moon it is nigh impossible to get them to run an event or push any buttons. I think the majority of our playerbase is just shit. In a way goof is right, we have so many players who just want to validhunt and guess the roundtype that they now outnumber the players who want to roleplay and do something different. Kinda sucks, but anything we do to change it will drive off this shitty silent majority.

ThanatosRa · Post by **ThanatosRa** » Fri Oct 16, 2015 3:16 pm #126910

If only i could reliable start abunch of us to ahelp in protest of the shitters. Give the silent majority a voice.

Super Aggro Crag · Fri Oct 16, 2015 3:59 pm

kill them all

AnonymousNow · Fri Oct 16, 2015 7:05 pm

Kill them all, but in a carefully orchestrated and dramatic way, with carefully-timed jumps away from explosions and witty one-liners.

Super Aggro Crag · Fri Oct 16, 2015 7:40 pm

I agree

Not-Dorsidarf · Sat Oct 17, 2015 9:44 am

I tried to apply for badmin but got turned down because they have so many new admins + recruits.

which leaves the question, where the fuck *are* the badmins because we go like 6 hours without any, then three come on at once and make two ACs, then two hours later gone again.

Don't we have like 30-40 admins?

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Sat Oct 17, 2015 9:45 am #127123

Aussie hours are the deadest, during prime time america fuck yeah theres like 8 admins on.

Zilenan91 · Post by **Zilenan91** » Sat Oct 17, 2015 6:07 pm #127222

I've seen upwards of 15 on at once afaik.

QuartzCrystal · Sat Oct 17, 2015 6:16 pm

I haven't really read much of this thread, which appears to not be about RP anymore or something?

Anyways, soon my activity will resume normal levels and I plan on hosting more admin events that rely heavily on RP. I frankly think we need more top-down encouragement for this as admins used to be more of the role of game masters as opposed to moderators (which is no longer the case). I encourage other admins to do so. I also encourage admins to hold votes at the beginning of rounds when they feel like it to see if players are interested in an "RP enforced" round every once and a while (as in, a round where admins actively tell players to RP properly).

Zilenan91 · Post by **Zilenan91** » Sat Oct 17, 2015 6:18 pm #127224

I wouldn't mind us eventually making the shift to being a mediumRP server again.

imblyings · Post by **imblyings** » Sat Oct 17, 2015 7:04 pm #127227

Do you guys actually want some flavour or variation of players more choosing non-combat interactions between antag/nonantags, the willingness to play along with gimmicks, not intentionally seeking out combat interactions between antags/nonantags, basically sportsmanship, a certain playstyle that acknowledges and will often cooperate with other players to have fun

or

roleplaying in the actual definition of the word as in players making their characters act in a role consistent with their setting. And remember, we have no official setting, never did, and you won't get far if you try to make one that makes sense.

Think long and hard about it. In fact I'm going to make the reasonable and objectively true claim that this server was never medium RP or light RP, it was simply a server about fun and no OOC in IC. If you ever wanted to autism and RP with a snowflakey headcanon and pretend that a veneer of sanity and logic existed, you were welcome to as well, but it was never the focus of the game.

Admins can enforce restricted knowledge and the flipside of that, being restricted antag licenses. It'd be a rough and harsh handbreak on what players can do and one possible consequence is players chilling out enough to play along with non-combat interactions/gimmicks. Like how it's been said above though, this is something better instead initiated from the player level. Players will simply have to try putting their fun on the line to test the waters and encourage others to do the same. Like syndie keys, someone has to start using them first and start the ball rolling in places like OOC, the forums, and the game itself.

It's been pointed out a few times already, but content for jobs and our limited pve stuff will only satisfy players for so long. Pvp is about the only other part of the game that remains fresh and easily accessable so it's no wonder some people just like skipping to that content. If we look at this problem from this point of view, it becomes pretty easily apparent that It will take hard work and more effort than posting in your yearly RP doommongering thread to actually have something done about it.

Cheimon · Post by **Cheimon** » Sat Oct 17, 2015 9:16 pm #127244

Is it worth pointing out that roleplay consistent with the setting doesn't have to mean restricted knowledge? Restricted knowledge can be one of the shittiest parts of RP (I can't worry about the flashing and thuds until it's too late, the cult is peaceful I'm sure, hur hur) but it's not necessary.

I think people are mostly talking about more engagement in conversation, willingness to go along with others, friendliness, sportsmanship, all that sort of stuff.