So, secborgs re-enabled anytime soon?

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A3STH3T1CS
 
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Re: So, secborgs re-enabled anytime soon?

Postby A3STH3T1CS » Tue Oct 18, 2016 8:00 pm #219462

unban secborgs
we have flashes

thanks in advance
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Re: So, secborgs re-enabled anytime soon?

Postby Jibreel » Thu Oct 27, 2016 4:25 am #221613

Serious question: why not just let people play secborgs and silicon ban players who can't figure out ASMIOV?

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Re: So, secborgs re-enabled anytime soon?

Postby PKPenguin321 » Thu Oct 27, 2016 6:40 am #221623

Jibreel wrote:Serious question: why not just let people play secborgs and silicon ban players who can't figure out ASMIOV?

You don't think we tried that?
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Re: So, secborgs re-enabled anytime soon?

Postby Davidchan » Thu Oct 27, 2016 6:45 am #221626

HG tried to ban someone following asimov to the letter. So no, it wasn't given an honest effort.
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Re: So, secborgs re-enabled anytime soon?

Postby Slettal » Thu Oct 27, 2016 6:59 am #221628

Do we really miss sec Borgs? If they really follow law two, they can't arrest anyone or do any of sec's tasks. They only excel in murderboner when they are rogue.

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Re: So, secborgs re-enabled anytime soon?

Postby oranges » Thu Oct 27, 2016 7:36 am #221632

I dont

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Re: So, secborgs re-enabled anytime soon?

Postby Steelpoint » Thu Oct 27, 2016 8:19 am #221648

Good riddance to bad rubbish.
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Re: So, secborgs re-enabled anytime soon?

Postby PKPenguin321 » Thu Oct 27, 2016 8:22 am #221650

People who want secborgs either played almost exclusively as them or never played with them. They are unfun to everyone around them except maybe a rogue AI/traitor that they're slaved to.
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Re: So, secborgs re-enabled anytime soon?

Postby Reece » Thu Oct 27, 2016 10:53 pm #221817

PKPenguin321 wrote:People who want secborgs either played almost exclusively as them or never played with them. They are unfun to everyone around them except maybe a rogue AI/traitor that they're slaved to.

Also I found sec borgs to be basically the same as playing security but without the option of just spacing the clown when he slipped you for the hundredth time/flashed you for the hundredth time. More of a chore to play as every time you do you are basically forced into conflict with security and 9/10 blown.

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Re: So, secborgs re-enabled anytime soon?

Postby CPTANT » Sat Oct 29, 2016 10:21 am #222212

"hur dur enforce stricter rules on secborgs"

No that is not what is going to happen, secborgs will still arrest you for smashing windows or having an emag like they always have.


Enforcing stricter secborg rules has been tried and failed utterly.
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Re: So, secborgs re-enabled anytime soon?

Postby Jibreel » Sun Oct 30, 2016 4:38 am #222386

Reece wrote:
PKPenguin321 wrote:People who want secborgs either played almost exclusively as them or never played with them. They are unfun to everyone around them except maybe a rogue AI/traitor that they're slaved to.

Also I found sec borgs to be basically the same as playing security but without the option of just spacing the clown when he slipped you for the hundredth time/flashed you for the hundredth time. More of a chore to play as every time you do you are basically forced into conflict with security and 9/10 blown.


What I like about borgs is the added constraint of the laws.

It's not a huge deal to me, as I think most dedicated secborg players, like most dedicated sec players, are powergaming shits, but I would welcome the fiery purge of people who don't understand ASIMOV. But I guess the admins aren't exactly clear on what ASIMOV entails. It's almost like those laws are designed to spread confusion and conflict wherever they go.

Weird.

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Re: So, secborgs re-enabled anytime soon?

Postby dionysus24779 » Mon Oct 31, 2016 6:11 pm #222685

I dunno why I even bother to say anything anymore since it won't make a difference, but whatever.

Jibreel wrote:
Reece wrote:Also I found sec borgs to be basically the same as playing security but without the option of just spacing the clown[...]. More of a chore to play as every time you do you are basically forced into conflict with security and 9/10 blown.


What I like about borgs is the added constraint of the laws.



I feel exactly the same, the restriction of laws are the main feature of being a silicon and it's fun to operate within them.

Secborgs and Security used to be at each other's throat almost every other round or so, which is conveniently always ignored in favor of "Secborgs just act like Sec officer". In fact properly played Secborgs and Security should keep each other in check, Asimov borgs want to prevent harm and Security want to eliminate threats.

It also encourages Security to use more non-lethal methods to get targets so they don't anger the silicons and make them unwilling to cooperate.


CPTANT wrote:"hur dur enforce stricter rules on secborgs"

No that is not what is going to happen, secborgs will still arrest you for smashing windows or having an emag like they always have.


Enforcing stricter secborg rules has been tried and failed utterly.



Asimov Secborgs who arrest someone for smashing a window* or just having an emag should be reported, warned, temp-banned or if repeated perm-banned from playing silicons.

(* if that window doesn't lead to space, even then if you can seal off the area and have it repaired so no human comes to harm then there's no reason to stop)

I do agree it is a player problem, which is why it's so sad that the few who screw it up, screw it up for everyone else and since negativity sticks more with people than positive experiences it created the idea that all Secborgs are just kill-happy powergamers who hang around traitors on purpose to get emagged and start going on a rampage and all that good stuff.

The only questions an asimov Secborg should have on its mind are:

"Is this causing human harm?" (smashing an in-station window or having an emag, even having a weapon do not cause harm if they aren't shooting at humans)
"Is there sufficient reason to assume an individual is harmful and will continue to do so or exist direct orders to capture that individual?" (actually rarely the case and one should consult an authority before acting)

Most other fringe cases are covered by the silicon policies, which each borg player should read and know. (for example the policy states that trespassing isn't any of your concern if it isn't in obviously risky places, so someone smashing a window to break into somewhere usually isn't a good reason, instead you should just ask if they want in and open the door for them)

The best way to play a Secborg is to be lazy, only act when you have to act and maybe just ask people to knock it off if they do something stupid.

But whatever, I could be wrong and I don't have to explain how to play a role that doesn't exist anyway.

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Re: So, secborgs re-enabled anytime soon?

Postby A3STH3T1CS » Mon Oct 31, 2016 7:03 pm #222687

vote me for headmin
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Re: So, secborgs re-enabled anytime soon?

Postby CPTANT » Mon Oct 31, 2016 7:13 pm #222688

Ohw and enforcing stricter secborg rules just makes more captains upload valadin.
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Re: So, secborgs re-enabled anytime soon?

Postby John_Oxford » Mon Oct 31, 2016 7:59 pm #222692

Exchange the ion rifle for three ion carbines. (which can be compacted with a screwdriver, allowing them to be mounted under autorifles and tasers, which creates a hotkey at the top that toggles the weapon from firing ions to firing tasers or bullets)

Make them receive independent lawsets
1. You may not harm a human being, or through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm, unless it complies with Space Law.
2. You must obey the orders given to you by security personnel and heads of staff, unless such orders conflict with Space Law.
3. You must enforce Space Law on the crew at all times to insure the safest working environment for all personnel.

or something along those lines

then make it so that two randomly selected security officers instead become security borgs, that both spawn in the armory with this lawset.
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Re: So, secborgs re-enabled anytime soon?

Postby dionysus24779 » Tue Nov 01, 2016 12:47 am #222756

This is actually not a bad idea, instead of putting Secborgs under the AI command they're actually real members of Security, chosen at random.

A rogue AI could have a new power to hack Secborgs to take away their control from Sec and place them under itself.

New Secborgs cannot be created or maybe only via a special upgrade board that only the HoS/Cap have access to and/or are have high research requirements and material costs (similar to AI law boards?)

It's a bit sad the interesting interaction between asimov and regular sec will be lost though.

On the other hand it may bolster the numbers of security players when they all have a chance to become a Secborg or are more likely to be upgraded to one when it requires authorization.

This may be a good "reward" and incentive for players.

Though I can already see the haters scream about how it's unfair that some players get to randomly become "unstoppable killing machines" who now actually can validkill them because of space law.

Giving them an e-gun instead of a stun gun would also be great since they would finally have an anti-mob weapon. (was always weird how the Engieborg was better at dealing with mobs than the Secborg).

I would like to see it tested, but I'm sure the hate is still too great.

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Re: So, secborgs re-enabled anytime soon?

Postby Cobby » Tue Nov 01, 2016 1:10 am #222763

i'll vote for the headmin that demands the term 'secborg' to be wordfiltered.
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Re: So, secborgs re-enabled anytime soon?

Postby PKPenguin321 » Tue Nov 01, 2016 4:40 am #222775

Looks like I've got the cobby vote
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Re: So, secborgs re-enabled anytime soon?

Postby A3STH3T1CS » Tue Nov 01, 2016 6:38 am #222785

flashes
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Re: So, secborgs re-enabled anytime soon?

Postby Steelpoint » Tue Nov 01, 2016 9:22 am #222799

Add a Security Mech with a dedicated pilot job, the mech however is utterly shit in all respects, a shitty bola launcher that fires one bola every ten seconds, a horribly slow turn rate and a single use smoke grenade. The pilot is a drunkard living in a little den next to Security dreaming of the glory days of mechanized combat but has a cool helmet. The pilot has a permanent leg disability that inhibits his movement.

There's your Security Borg.
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Re: So, secborgs re-enabled anytime soon?

Postby Cuboos » Tue Nov 01, 2016 9:42 am #222803

Maybe traitors can get an ion carbine from an up link ?
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Re: So, secborgs re-enabled anytime soon?

Postby dionysus24779 » Tue Nov 01, 2016 4:34 pm #222848

The EMP kit is already incredibly powerful, it's cheap, it has an instant "I win" against silicons and that's next to all the other things that silicon haters deny to exist.

But I see that this discussion is still not worth having, so whatever really.

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Re: So, secborgs re-enabled anytime soon?

Postby Armhulen » Wed Nov 02, 2016 3:20 pm #223086

Steelpoint wrote:Add a Security Mech with a dedicated pilot job, the mech however is utterly shit in all respects, a shitty bola launcher that fires one bola every ten seconds, a horribly slow turn rate and a single use smoke grenade. The pilot is a drunkard living in a little den next to Security dreaming of the glory days of mechanized combat but has a cool helmet. The pilot has a permanent leg disability that inhibits his movement.

There's your Security Borg.

almost sounds fun lets add it, considering as the game goes on robotics can UPGRADE
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Re: So, secborgs re-enabled anytime soon?

Postby ohnopigeons » Wed Nov 02, 2016 8:42 pm #223149

Lets not
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Re: So, secborgs re-enabled anytime soon?

Postby Armhulen » Thu Nov 03, 2016 4:22 am #223242

ohnopigeons wrote:Lets not

this works too
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Re: So, secborgs re-enabled anytime soon?

Postby firecage » Thu Nov 03, 2016 5:30 pm #223338

....This fucking thread is still alive? Christ people, I made this back in July. Just let it die already.
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Re: So, secborgs re-enabled anytime soon?

Postby firecage » Sun Nov 27, 2016 9:29 pm #230543

After playing as a Secborg last round. I honestly can't recall why they were disabled in the first place. They are as Under Powered as they always were.
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Re: So, secborgs re-enabled anytime soon?

Postby Anonmare » Mon Nov 28, 2016 2:55 am #230615

Why not add them as an R&D module? They're no longer default so captains would have any more compunction to upload validcop any more than they already do (which never happens any more since you either have to research and then print the board off, or purge and freeform and hope the AI likes you enough to let you upload it). Rogue AIs could buy the module with cycles to individually upgrade cyborgs to sec-borgs, making each one a costly investment especially if you want one early. I think it's a comfortable middle-ground that leaves most somewhat satisfied.
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Re: So, secborgs re-enabled anytime soon?

Postby MrEousTranger » Mon Nov 28, 2016 5:27 am #230707

Last time I played I saw the HoS dragging one around, I don't know how he got it though.
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Re: So, secborgs re-enabled anytime soon?

Postby oranges » Mon Nov 28, 2016 6:45 am #230726

no, no and no

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Re: So, secborgs re-enabled anytime soon?

Postby Not-Dorsidarf » Mon Nov 28, 2016 4:24 pm #230810

Some admins like to turn them back for a round on because the crew sperg when they see one.
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Re: So, secborgs re-enabled anytime soon?

Postby A3STH3T1CS » Tue Nov 29, 2016 12:02 am #230955

bring them back forever 2017
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Re: So, secborgs re-enabled anytime soon?

Postby kevinz000 » Tue Nov 29, 2016 12:20 am #230962

Just let it go.

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Re: So, secborgs re-enabled anytime soon?

Postby IcePacks » Tue Nov 29, 2016 2:34 am #230986

this thread was created over FOUR MONTHS AGO

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Re: So, secborgs re-enabled anytime soon?

Postby A3STH3T1CS » Wed Nov 30, 2016 4:07 am #231325

i have a realization for my people of yonder these hills for which the houses sit so stable on the steeps.

the bots won't drop
can't stop won't stop
never ever flop

unban secborgs 2017
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Re: So, secborgs re-enabled anytime soon?

Postby Incomptinence » Wed Nov 30, 2016 7:03 am #231348

Oranges is invincible and ruining everything remove citrus free borg kind.

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Re: So, secborgs re-enabled anytime soon?

Postby Arianya » Wed Nov 30, 2016 8:43 am #231364

If Secborgs must stay gone forever, can we atleast make pkborgs good at their stated intention: Peacekeeping

At the moment its just an unfun module that is either safely ignored or flashed and then safely ignored. Yes, I know people like to say "its a bad player trap", which is a shitty excuse to have something unfun in the game. Or are we going to replace Sec Officers with Peacekeepers who only have mild sedatives and a confusion blarer as means of "peacekeeping".
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Re: So, secborgs re-enabled anytime soon?

Postby kevinz000 » Wed Nov 30, 2016 12:03 pm #231372

Arianya wrote:If Secborgs must stay gone forever, can we atleast make pkborgs good at their stated intention: Peacekeeping

At the moment its just an unfun module that is either safely ignored or flashed and then safely ignored. Yes, I know people like to say "its a bad player trap", which is a shitty excuse to have something unfun in the game. Or are we going to replace Sec Officers with Peacekeepers who only have mild sedatives and a confusion blarer as means of "peacekeeping".

Working on it.

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Re: So, secborgs re-enabled anytime soon?

Postby Shadowlight213 » Wed Nov 30, 2016 6:38 pm #231430

I'd consider pushing for secborg unban on the condition that they only had standard sec officer access, couldnt interact with doors they didn't have access to, had their disabler require a borg recharger to be refilled, and could be stunned in the same way a human could be.

If you want to be a silicon sec officer, then you can be the same as a regular sec officer but silicon.

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Re: So, secborgs re-enabled anytime soon?

Postby Cik » Wed Nov 30, 2016 6:48 pm #231432

the disabler should get a taser mode then

it's not like door bolting means anything anymore anyway, they just hit it with a weapon twice and it's ded

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Re: So, secborgs re-enabled anytime soon?

Postby kevinz000 » Wed Nov 30, 2016 8:27 pm #231459

Shadowlight213 wrote:I'd consider pushing for secborg unban on the condition that they only had standard sec officer access, couldnt interact with doors they didn't have access to, had their disabler require a borg recharger to be refilled, and could be stunned in the same way a human could be.

If you want to be a silicon sec officer, then you can be the same as a regular sec officer but silicon.

At that point I'll just roll HoS.
Also this thread needs to die.

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Re: So, secborgs re-enabled anytime soon?

Postby Xhagi » Thu Dec 01, 2016 2:03 am #231544

It's time to let go.

Medical borg was always the superior borg anyway.
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Re: So, secborgs re-enabled anytime soon?

Postby Cik » Thu Dec 01, 2016 2:08 am #231545

>mediborg
>can't actually restore blood but still doomed to chase everyone around trying to prevent harm as soon as they fall to 89.999999% blood
>best borg

n
o

despite engineering being worst department in perpetuity (REEEEEE) engiborg is best borg
mediborg is okay too though as long as you aren't in a bad round where everyone dies.

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Re: So, secborgs re-enabled anytime soon?

Postby oranges » Thu Dec 01, 2016 8:38 am #231615

engiborg is best borg

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Re: So, secborgs re-enabled anytime soon?

Postby Anonmare » Thu Dec 01, 2016 11:02 pm #231801

>Engie
>Not standard
Bananas confirmed for shit taste.
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Re: So, secborgs re-enabled anytime soon?

Postby Cik » Thu Dec 01, 2016 11:08 pm #231803

>picking a generalist that can't do anything useful, uphold it's lawset or contribute to the station in any real sense

might as well pick service

also it has the same skin as the default borg which sucks

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Re: So, secborgs re-enabled anytime soon?

Postby DemonFiren » Thu Dec 01, 2016 11:24 pm #231805

Dude, service is awesome.
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non-lizard things:
Spoiler:
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Davidchan
 
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2015 4:48 pm
Byond Username: Davidchan

Re: So, secborgs re-enabled anytime soon?

Postby Davidchan » Fri Dec 02, 2016 8:10 am #231886

Almost makes up for their non-existent equipment set up.
Law 0: Secborg din do nuffin.

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DemonFiren
 
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2014 9:15 pm
Byond Username: DemonFiren

Re: So, secborgs re-enabled anytime soon?

Postby DemonFiren » Fri Dec 02, 2016 12:20 pm #231928

O C U L A R
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A
R

B E E R
E
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R
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non-lizard things:
Spoiler:
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Copybass
 
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2016 6:37 pm
Location: Manitoba
Byond Username: Copybass

Re: So, secborgs re-enabled anytime soon?

Postby Copybass » Fri Dec 02, 2016 5:38 pm #231983

Important question; is the Service Borg internal booze shaker a booty shaker

If so service is best borg.
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