Please put gang back in rotation

CPTANT · Post by **CPTANT** » Sat Oct 29, 2016 9:27 pm #222296

Why was it removed completely in the first place?

I doesn't have to be a high weight, but SOME gang would be nice.

ShadowDimentio · Sat Oct 29, 2016 9:37 pm

Good riddance to bad gamemodes I say.

onleavedontatme · Sat Oct 29, 2016 9:42 pm

Security ruined it by arresting the whole crew every round the first time they saw a gang tag.

Screemonster · Sat Oct 29, 2016 9:43 pm

Gang possibly suffered from the other team deathmatch modes being weighted fairly highly as well so people got sick of them, and it's got some pretty big issues that need sorting out before it's really viable.
Not least of which are the questions of "how do keep it gang versus gang without security also effectively becoming a conversion antag team in their own right to stop them, forcing gang into either a complete snowball early on and steamroll everyone, or they get cucked right at the start and it becomes extended" and "how do we stop gangs just wiping out or converting security and then immediately dominating the other gangs because they have the armory"

Sat Oct 29, 2016 9:45 pm

conversion needs to be tweaked a bit so there are less hard tells. remove tiny prick messages for the target when they get jabbed with a conversion pen, make a new pen that any gangster can use (not just gangbosses) but it's really obvious, IE has a tiny prick message, doesn't even look like a pen but a weird needle, is called a "gang conversion device" instead of a pen, maybe has a higher cooldown than a regular pen.

make buying a dominator with the gangtool into buying a device that plants a dominator so gangheads can delegate dominator conversion to regular gangsters so the gangboss doesn't have to do EVERYTHING by himself and his gang of 30 people doesn't lose if one sec officer happens to tase him.

imo the main issue with gang is that it is both too reliant on its gangbosses, and its gangbosses are too pressured to convert/plant dominators, meaning that gang bosses will often get found out due to hard tells that it's gang (failed conversions giving the tiny prick message, gang spray paint tags), get instalynched by everybody with half a brain (which they cant hide or easily avoid due to having to go out to convert people), and suddenly nothing the rest of the gang does matters since its boss is dead and they cant plant a dom.

TechnoAlchemist · Sat Oct 29, 2016 9:51 pm

please do not put gang back into rotation

ShadowDimentio · Sat Oct 29, 2016 10:01 pm

Gang was cancer because success was decided the moment the round started. If you had a department to yourself, you won. If you started as a greyshirt it was plausible but unlikely. If you were anyone else you got fucked and lost because everyone was already converted. Security implanting everyone they saw in the halls only made things worse.

Screemonster · Sat Oct 29, 2016 10:08 pm

why does gang need a base-building victory condition anyway

Make their objectives random shit that isn't necessarily something that typical jackbooting stomp-everything or outright gang warfare will solve.

Or maybe some of them are combat-oriented like wiping out the other gang leaders, being the first to reach a certain level of influence, a certain number of deaths among the other gangs, and so on, so if security go around on a mass implanting crusade and kill every gang member they find, they might end up just handing victory to the other gang.

For ultimate keks make a victory condition of "X non-gang-members dying after being attacked by security members"

Post by **oranges** » Sat Oct 29, 2016 11:20 pm #222328

gang doesnt' work because it has too many teams.

If it only has one then it's just themed rev and should go.

Basically remove gangs.

Krusvik · Post by **Krusvik** » Sat Oct 29, 2016 11:25 pm #222330

Everything that needs to be said has already been said, all I can do further is support the removal of gangs.

Post by **Thunder11** » Sat Oct 29, 2016 11:27 pm #222331

Needs a complete overhaul to not be multi team rev

tedward1337 · Sat Oct 29, 2016 11:43 pm

gang suffers from the same problems rev does. Either you go silent for 45 minutes and stealth dominate. Or security finds out 5 minutes in and steamrolls anyone, implanting them along the way.

Limey · Post by **Limey** » Mon Oct 31, 2016 12:29 am #222539

Why do we have revs when gangs are gone

they're both equally shit

Mon Oct 31, 2016 1:01 am

newfriend, you are wrong

Limey · Post by **Limey** » Mon Oct 31, 2016 3:35 am #222574

I believe I am right as this is a fact

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Mon Oct 31, 2016 12:25 pm #222639

Revolution is a pure and simple game mode with most of the filler cut out.

Gang was a over complicated game mode that relied massively on the competence, but also RNG, of the placement and viability of the Gang Leaders. Here are the main issues Gang Mode had.

Security was in a weird place. The game mode was crafted in a way in a attempt to sideline Security and to focus the game mode into a pure Gang v Gang mode. The problem here is that one of two things would occur, Security would be overrun by one Gang and then that Gang would win by having the Brig and most of Sec under its thumb. Alternatively Security would go balls to the wall shitsec and begin a massive purge of the entire station that was simply unfun and annoying for everyone involved.
Gang was massively reliant on the competence of the Gang leader AND the positioning of the round start Gangsters. If you had a competent leader and control over a single department you would win. Too many rounds ended with one dominate gang with 20+ members and all the rest having one or two Gangsters doing nothing.
The amount of cheese I saw with Dominator placements was unpalatable, a lot of the time you had no chance to zero in to the Dominator.

Ultimantly Gang is just a Rev game mode that was over saturated with poor ideas.

You also have to remember that back when Gang was on rotation, we had a large prevalence of conversion game modes. You had Cult, Rev, Gang and even Ratvar. I can't recall the math but I do remember that a large percentage of the game modes on the server at any time was a conversion based game mode, this led to a lot of furstration (more from sec) when you spent round after round having the crew desolve into a massive war. Conversion game modes are fun but only in moderation.

CPTANT · Post by **CPTANT** » Mon Oct 31, 2016 8:04 pm #222694

Ohw and btw why is extended in rotation....... It is horrible like 90% of the time, it is extremely rare that it turns into some form of fun event.

Post by **Atlanta-Ned** » Mon Oct 31, 2016 8:25 pm #222697

CPTANT wrote:Ohw and btw why is extended in rotation....... It is horrible like 90% of the time, it is extremely rare that it turns into some form of fun event.

It'll be removed when players stop running fun things* into the ground**.

* See: Gang removed from rotation
** So, never

peoplearestrange · Thu Nov 10, 2016 4:29 pm

I'd like to see gang back, but maybe make the weapons weaker but more abundant. I'd like to see gangs facing off with knives down corridors rather than just running around firing MAC's wildly.

BeeSting12 · Post by **BeeSting12** » Fri Nov 11, 2016 10:48 pm #225641

can we have gang back? it wasnt so bad

Isane · Post by **Isane** » Fri Nov 11, 2016 11:20 pm #225648

peoplearestrange wrote:I'd like to see gang back, but maybe make the weapons weaker but more abundant. I'd like to see gangs facing off with knives down corridors rather than just running around firing MAC's wildly.

They were Uzis, but that didn't matter too much to whatever gang lucked out and either got the armory or controlled RnD.

Professor Hangar · Mon Nov 14, 2016 3:11 am

Gang seems like a mode that would work a lot better if there was more plausible deniability to it. Maybe incorporate some gang elements into regular rounds, so sec can't be sure whether it's actually a gang round when tags are going up or it's just bored assistants who got into the art supplies. Incentive to arrest and convict gang leaders might help things too.

Access to cheaper low-grade weapons seems redundant given how every greytider learns to use anything as a weapon. Maybe add crafting recipes for shivs and other improvised weapons.

Sun Mar 19, 2017 12:48 am

bump

also another idea to help with the conversion problem

maybe instead of throwing a "This mind has already been recruited into a gang!" when you pen an already-in-a-gang person, just convert them anyways, provided they're not a gang leader. steal other gangsters. why not?

captain sawrge · Sun Mar 19, 2017 1:11 am

3 conversion modes is more than enough

D&B · Post by **D&B** » Sun Mar 19, 2017 2:15 am #269832

Only if it replaces clock cult

Luke Cox · Post by **Luke Cox** » Sun Mar 19, 2017 2:55 am #269842

The mode had potential but it needed a complete rework

BeeSting12 · Post by **BeeSting12** » Sun Mar 19, 2017 3:31 am #269865

D&B wrote:Only if it replaces clock cult

cedarbridge · Post by **cedarbridge** » Sun Mar 19, 2017 3:44 am #269871

The one round of gang we ran today as a sort of "map mode keeps memeing us with rev" gimmick was actually pretty fun. Right before the shuttle docked both gangs scrambled to set up their dominators. Raids and tense fights at both locations. Captain staged a ninja raid. All pretty good fun.

Post by **Armhulen** » Sun Mar 19, 2017 3:56 am #269877

cedarbridge wrote:The one round of gang we ran today as a sort of "map mode keeps memeing us with rev" gimmick was actually pretty fun. Right before the shuttle docked both gangs scrambled to set up their dominators. Raids and tense fights at both locations. Captain staged a ninja raid. All pretty good fun.

JANIBORG WITH HIS RIGHTEOUS MOP

ShadowDimentio · Sun Mar 19, 2017 4:17 am

cedarbridge wrote:The one round of gang we ran today as a sort of "map mode keeps memeing us with rev" gimmick was actually pretty fun. Right before the shuttle docked both gangs scrambled to set up their dominators. Raids and tense fights at both locations. Captain staged a ninja raid. All pretty good fun.

>Guys we ran an event round of gang
>It was the exact same as it always was

[surprise]

Sun Mar 19, 2017 4:18 am

ShadowDimentio wrote:
cedarbridge wrote:The one round of gang we ran today as a sort of "map mode keeps memeing us with rev" gimmick was actually pretty fun. Right before the shuttle docked both gangs scrambled to set up their dominators. Raids and tense fights at both locations. Captain staged a ninja raid. All pretty good fun.
>Guys we ran an event round of gang
>It was the exact same as it always was

[surprise]

if it's always good why wouldnt we readd it

nsos · Post by **nsos** » Sun Mar 19, 2017 4:23 am #269892

rev rounds are uniformly better than cult rounds dont @ me

nsos · Post by **nsos** » Sun Mar 19, 2017 4:24 am #269893

theres only ever been 1 bad roundtype on this server and its blob

ShadowDimentio · Sun Mar 19, 2017 4:25 am

It's not good. People complain about rounds always going through the same motions, and gang is the worst offender by far as sec goes turbohitler, one gang gets annhilated because the head was a mime, and then the other two gangs dom right at shuttle leave and both lose.

Sun Mar 19, 2017 4:41 am

i mean the round that was described by cedarbridge i played that and i thought it was pretty fun

ShadowDimentio · Sun Mar 19, 2017 4:59 am

I'm sure monkey had a few decent rounds too that doesn't mean it should be in rotation.

Sun Mar 19, 2017 5:19 am

Post by **oranges** » Sun Mar 19, 2017 6:22 am #269932

gang starts with a g, just like garbage

Qbopper · Post by **Qbopper** » Sun Mar 19, 2017 2:37 pm #270013

gang shouldn't be readded as is because it was pretty bad

I'm not sure what kinda tweaks could be made to make it play less terribly though

ShadowDimentio · Sun Mar 19, 2017 2:42 pm

A code removal would be a good start.

cedarbridge · Post by **cedarbridge** » Sun Mar 19, 2017 3:21 pm #270025

ShadowDimentio wrote:It's not good. People complain about rounds always going through the same motions, and gang is the worst offender by far as sec goes turbohitler, one gang gets annhilated because the head was a mime, and then the other two gangs dom right at shuttle leave and both lose.

My gang was down to 1-3 dudes and a single Lt. If I were a better shot we'd have won. Sec wasn't shit. And yeah, it was definitely fun.

lzimann · Post by **lzimann** » Sun Mar 19, 2017 3:37 pm #270028

Having one "fun" round doesn't mean the gamemode is good. Gang being gone was an improvement, since all that ever happens in that mode is security going full nazis as soon as they spot a gang tag(and you can't even blame them for doing this). Only time I can see gang coming back is if we just remove security if there are gangs.

factoryman942 · Mon Mar 20, 2017 2:05 am

what if it was back in rotation at the same level as blob?
so it doesn't happen very often, but it does happen?

ShadowDimentio · Mon Mar 20, 2017 2:11 am

It's a garbage mode, stop trying to bring it back on the basis of "Well SOMETIMES it's fun!"

Mon Mar 20, 2017 2:49 am

ShadowDimentio wrote:It's a garbage mode, stop trying to bring it back on the basis of "Well SOMETIMES it's fun!"

I just disagree

Reece · Post by **Reece** » Mon Mar 20, 2017 6:33 am #270416

Bring back jungle fever into rotation.

Post by **oranges** » Mon Mar 20, 2017 9:00 am #270440

Reece wrote:Bring back jungle fever into rotation.

agreed

CPTANT · Post by **CPTANT** » Mon Mar 20, 2017 12:44 pm #270468

Gang is fine, just needs some minor adjustments.

Instead of 1 gang leader and 2 lieutenants, let gangs spawn with 3 gang leaders. This makes gangs with bad job spawns a lot less likely and should even out the playing field.

Remove implant breakers, they just let the winning gang snowball indefinitely.

(optional idea) make graffiti invisible for non gang members, makes shitting on gangs for paint on a wall impossible. This would mean sec comes into play when the actual violence starts.

Screemonster · Mon Mar 20, 2017 1:13 pm

They need an endgame goal that isn't an instant lose-condition for the rest of the crew. One that pits them directly and explicitly against other gangs and not against unaffiliated crewmembers. Preventing the other gang leaders from escaping, for instance, or having the most influence at the end.

Hell, I'm almost tempted to say that with some adjustments to tone them down they might work as a side-antag that runs at the same time as other modes so the gangs are just there rather than being the main event for the crew to fight against. Running violence in the halls - is it rev, traitors, or is it just a couple of gangers beating the shit out of each other?

InsaneHyena · Post by **InsaneHyena** » Mon Mar 20, 2017 1:13 pm #270474

Gang was pure shit, and returning it would be a mistake. Fuck clock cult too.